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Punk Voter posts election reaction

Posted by aubin on Thursday, November 4, 2004 at 11:23 AM (EST)

While it's hardly news to those of you who haven't been on Mars for the past 24 hours (in a cave with your eyes shut, and your fingers in your ears) yesterday, Democratic candidate John Kerry conceded victory to incumbent president George W.Bush.

And here by popular demand, here is an excerpt from the message from the "group of folks" at Punk Voter

Thanks to the millions of young voters who waited in lines to make their voice heard. According to The Circle (not the early reports of the Associated Press) young voters did show up in mass. 4.6 million more 18-29 year olds voted than in 2000.

Youth turnout was up 9 percentage points. However, fear-stricken homophobic turnout was also up by an amazing amount. Nonetheless, we are proud of the tens of thousands of punks who took to the streets to make their opinions known.

You can read Mike's statement in it's entirety here.

Punk Voter (598 comments)

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Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way. Seriously.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

You lose the battle but you focus on winning the war, this shit isn't over yet. Fuck the haters, let's forge ahead and focus on 2008. Dubya is, was, and forever shall remain, a complete fucking putz.

7+ Replies

Someone (November 4, 2004)

The guy is a PUTZ and a half!

CrookedSuperhero (November 4, 2004)

Isn't that better than a single putz?

BizzleBrizzle (November 4, 2004)

I'm hoping for a McCain or Dean run in '08 If not, then I say Punkvoter should throw full support behind a third party candidate As should things like Moveon.org And George Soros.

ElVaquero (November 4, 2004)

I predict Giuliani versus Clinton

sickboi (chris) (November 4, 2004)

Ever see his work before 9/11? Umm....yeah. No thanks.

BizzleBrizzle (November 4, 2004)

I agree, both of them suck dick...

Someone (November 4, 2004)

you mean had dick sucked

CallingLondon (November 4, 2004)

i would actually consider voting for mccain if he were to run again and make it to the final stage. i'm not sure if i would but atleast it wouldn't be a huge tradgedy if he beat the democratic candidate. the democratic party is falling apart at the seams anyhow. so sad.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I think that Sen. Obama from Illinois would be a great person to get behind for 2008.....he's very well-spoken and knows what's going on with people around that 20-30 age and wants to improve the situation here, not off in Iraq.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

i say give him 8 or 12 years...and i can honestly say i believe he will be at elast the nomination

Someone (November 4, 2004)

i really think he may be the only democrat that can take the republicans out of office

Someone (November 5, 2004)

Does he meet the age requirement? To me, he looks pretty young and I think one has to be 45 to be president or am I forgetting my 6th grade social studies. However, I was really impressed with him at the DNC and I would throw my support behind him 100%.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Dear Fat Mike and all the bands, What you did is good. but not what was needed. I'm not trying to be a hater, but a helper. Ohio fucking counts in the end for everything. Every fucking year. But where did you hold concerts? Fucking California and Fucking New York City. guess what? if those places go red, we're fucked in the ass. but OHIO could have made all the difference. but the tours, etc. didn't so much as accidentally hit ohio, let alone give it the many many shows necessary to convince people to come. look at cincinati. look at washington county. look at those fucking swarms of red(neck) counties. There are punks there. Not many, but enough to make the difference, with all the hippies, goths and other fuckups. but you didn't play one for them. 2008. NoFX plays free or $4 shows throughout ohio. then, when bush III isn't elected, you'll be THE FUCKING MAN. p.s. b

show rest of comment

Someone (November 4, 2004)

wierd i checked this site...then that site...then back to this site and this was up...pretty fucked up. i cant believe bush one.....what a joke america is in the worlds eyes

3+ Replies

Someone (November 4, 2004)

won

swingline (November 4, 2004)

how does a person make such a mistake. i NEVER did that before. it bewilders me.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

i used to know a guy that would spell the word "want" with an apostrophe. thats the king of spelling mistakes.

Someone (November 8, 2004)

I can't beleive you think won is spelled "one". Thats a Democrat for ya

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Well....."divided we stand" is the only real way to describe the United States....and things are only going to get worse. I honestly see a Roman-esque empire collapse over the course of the remaining decade.......maybe it's for the best, but it didn't have to be this way. This adminstrations "macho" attitude and nationalistic leanings are going to almost certainly provoke more violent terrorist attacks on USA landmarks and not to mention angering countless other countries in the process. Let's see- wars with North Korea and Iran are both on the table, two countries that are far more capable than Iraq. If Bush goes through with his plan to restart the nuclear program we can look forward to "cold war part 2", only this time against terrorist who REALLY WILL do it. Great.......looks like the end is near.

2+ Replies

jones_the_bones (November 4, 2004)

Maybe you should just kill yourself and save us the food for the survivors. Dolt. -jones the bones

Someone (November 4, 2004)

hahaha "dolt"??? who the fuck still says "dolt"? that word expired a few decades ago. Nice try though.

Not-To-Regret (November 4, 2004)

Hey it may be pessimistic but it's a mathematically realistic posibility jones.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I was wearing an Against Me t shirt when I voted that said "George W fuck you and your daddy", and they didnt let me vote. We argued for like 20 minutes, and finally they produced some handbook that said you cant wear anything that supports candidates even though my friends told me they had seen other people wearing Bush shirts and being allowed to vote. Finally I said fuck it and turned my shirt inside out so I could vote.

14+ Replies

Daegan (November 4, 2004)

Somehow I doubt that they let other people in other candidates' shirts vote. They're always pretty hardcore about that 75 feet thing.

sickboi (chris) (November 4, 2004)

Nah, I saw some guy with Bush hat on.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

i saw at least 10 people wearing bush and kerry shirts that voted

sickboi (chris) (November 4, 2004)

I wore a "Not My President" shirt and someone called me a communist.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

well....you are.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I wore a t-shirt that had a pic of Bush sr and Dubya and it said "dumb and dumber" I was allowed to vote

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I used to hate you but I give uoy props for that.

earth23 (November 4, 2004)

Heh, I wore the same shirt and got a ton of compliments....I was in CA however. It's all up to the republicans now (who control everything). When things get crappy we'll know who to blame, and in turn remove from office.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I was in CA when I wore that shirt too. But I was in Fresno, fucking republican central. Thats probably why they asked me to turn the shirt inside out.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

well when you wear an immature shirt like that of course they are going to enforce it - jones the bones - stevejones8770@yahoo.com

Someone (November 4, 2004)

what? he cant have a fuckin opinion? communist.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

immature? why? becuase of the profanity? i think the point of the shirt is to stray away from the normal gaurded and subtle political language by just outright saying 'Fuck You'.

RightCliqificus (November 4, 2004)

for once, i completely agree with ol' jones... the shirt is fucking retarded... that's the kind of thing that hurts the left man. that kind of bullshit jokey attitude that nobody will even consider as being serious.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

people like you really need to leave punk rock, if you can't tolerate a shirt like that

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Kuddos to the dude who just posted above me, his post says it all

RightCliqificus (November 4, 2004)

dude, i never said i couldn't tolerate it.. you need to learn to read.. i just agreed that it was immature...

Someone (November 4, 2004)

complete bullshit.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

i saw people wearing pro-bush shirts who got asked to turn their shirts inside out also. its no big deal, dont get your panties in a twist because of it.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I wore my leftover crack shirt that says fuck world trade with the towers falling and no one said shit.

Someone (November 5, 2004)

yeah right

Someone (November 4, 2004)

i'm in a college drumline and we got invited to play the inauguration in DC along with the rest of the marching band. I almost don't want to go out of principle. Fuck bush.

5+ Replies

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Don't go. Make a statement!

Someone (November 4, 2004)

actually id say go, AND make a statement. no one can hear you if youre not there.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

you go and drum your little heart out Nick Cannon. - R

RightCliqificus (November 4, 2004)

go, but wear a shirt that says "fuck shit holy fuck shit.. poo poo poo.. bush are badders".. that'll teach the evil ones.

Someone (November 6, 2004)

I was on the line in 2000 when gore and bush were still campaigning. Bush had a rally in our town and the band was supposed to play. I told the director that there was no way i would play for that asshole. You should play the inauguration and do a really loud rim shot during his speech. hopefully the secret service will confuse it for a gunshot and you'll make history. -Ken

Someone (November 4, 2004)

PS, Hillary '08

13+ Replies

P-Fresh (November 4, 2004)

Hillary Duff isn't old enough to be president!

CrookedSuperhero (November 4, 2004)

He means Hillary Clinton. Oh, i see.

maverick (scott) (November 4, 2004)

Comment of the day. -Scott

sickboi (chris) (November 4, 2004)

Excuse me?

RightCliqificus (November 4, 2004)

i'm assuming that somehow was to refer to how you believe you're the only one allowed to hand out that reward. shut up. you're a douche. as if you invented the concept.

sickboi (chris) (November 5, 2004)

Its a joke, piss off son.

Someone (November 6, 2004)

You are not allowed to talk on here you fucktard. Get out of my internet.

swingline (November 4, 2004)

Score!

BizzleBrizzle (November 4, 2004)

Never! i refuse to vote for her

Someone (November 4, 2004)

If the Dems are smart (which they aren't) they'll pick someone like John Edwards in '08. Hillary will get the exact same number of votes that Kerry did, which means she'll lose. Edwards however has all the same qualities as Bush, he's a southern, simple talkin' straight dealin' good lookin' down home kinda guy, at least in image. That's what the dems need. They need to "play dumb" with a candidate and then run things behind the scenes. Bush is a complete numbskull, but his administration isn't. You can't run for President on issues, substance, logic or truth anymore.

swingline (November 4, 2004)

did you just call bush good lookin'?

Kenjamin (November 4, 2004)

hahahah. tht jumped out too. It's funny that Bush ran his campaign on Fear and kerry ran his campaign on hope. Hope lost.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Edwards - good choice...couldn't even carry his home state in this election. The lack of intelligence on this board is astounding. Democrats should take a serious look at Evan Bayh from Indiana if they want a moderate, down home kind of guy. This is a Democratic senator that continues to win easily in a VERY republican state. People think Edwards is an asshole. He is unelectable and Republicans would cheer his nomination in '08.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I said "like Edwards," not him obviously. Pay attention. Most people don't know who Evan Bayh is.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

dude, edwards didnt even win in his home state, how is he going to win a U.S. election people love the Clintons, no matter how much they like to fuck.....if the dumbass Dems are smart, that's who they'll put up not to mention people are IDIOTS....there are some who will vote for (or against, for that matter) a woman president just because she's a woman

TrailerParkJesus (November 4, 2004)

some? I'm thinking the fucking majority. I'm willing to bet she would lose the overwhelming majority of the southern states- less because shes dem. and more because shes fem.

maverick (scott) (November 4, 2004)

She's a femocrat! -Scott

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Your overabundance of arrogance is appalling. Take your trite shit somewhere else dickhead.

AlbertFreddyIngram (November 4, 2004)

Yes, i agree, the country could use some more acward thumbs up.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Barack Obama 2012'

Someone (November 6, 2004)

word to this.

Jon_the_Skafather (November 6, 2004)

prefferably 2008.....but i guess better late than never.....just hope the 2008 schmuck doesn't ruin it for obama.

Jon_the_Skafather (November 6, 2004)

you're a fucking moron if you're serious about that. the country need a GOOD candidate, not the same old shit.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I'm glad he's bitter, the rest of the world is gonna turn its back on America if you keep this shit up.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I am taking this shit into my own hands - Me - in 2008.

2+ Replies

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I know I'd vote "someone" in '08.

swingline (November 4, 2004)

eww you got poopie hands. smell it!

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I think it is sad that so many youthful "punks" can buy the Rock Against Bush CD's, go to the concerts, even register to vote, then NOT show up on the second. Regardless of what spin Fat Mike puts on it, the small percentage of youth voters would have been the same without his/punk voter's efforts. My point? This is reality, not just an excuse to buy a cheap cd with some unreleased tracks on it. Oh yeah, and if you live in the middle of the country, you and your parents suck my balls.

8+ Replies

Someone (November 4, 2004)

yeah fuck the hicks and plantation owners!

Someone (November 4, 2004)

you ignorant self righteous idiot. you have no right to say something like that. what next, you'll stand at their doors with a pitch fork and torch?

RightCliqificus (November 4, 2004)

sounds like a plan....wait.. are they frankenstein's monster? cuz the torch thing is really only necessary for monsters.. oh, i guess they ARE monsters, 'cause they think its cool for kids to die in iraq for no reason.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

who do you think grows the food that supports America and some of the world the Midwest. So say that again when your starving

Someone (November 5, 2004)

good one. because it's impossible to eat without their food. right.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

present them

Someone (November 7, 2004)

they found our sea men in mrs. choksondik's stomach!

Someone (November 5, 2004)

I live in the middle of the country and I didn't vote for Bush. I can't say the same for everyone in my state, though. Just because I live in the midwest it doesn't mean that I'm a right-wing, gun-toting, redneck. I don't know what part of the country YOU live in, but you can go fuck yourself. Everyone knows that the East and West coast are SO superior to every other part of the country, and that nobody in the middle of the country could EVER be as punk as you. Eat shit you smug, self rightgeous fuck.

maverick (scott) (November 4, 2004)

Honestly, the election isn't over yet. Here in Ohio, there's over 150,000 (and that's a conservative estimate) uncounted ballots (provisional and absentee). Kerry lost Ohio by something like 130,000 votes. The majority of these provisional and absentee ballots were cast in big cities, like Cleveland. Which all went Democratic by a very large margin. In a week, you very well might see Kerry and Bush switching spots on the concession chain. -Scott

16+ Replies

sickboi (chris) (November 4, 2004)

OK, but here's the thing, if the provisional voters are eligible, but not registered, do the provisional votes count?

earth23 (November 4, 2004)

Hmmm, I'm pretty sure that when you give the concession phone call it's over, regardless of who really wins (e.g. last election). I doubt OH can get the job done, and in all seriousness it's time to move on.

BizzleBrizzle (November 4, 2004)

The election isn't decided untill the second week of december when the Electoral College casts its vote...so for all we know, we could be seeing President Chuck Norris sworn in.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

DUDE! How'd you know about my conspiracy??? Identify yourself!!!

RightCliqificus (November 4, 2004)

no, unfortunately either candidate can drop out at any point of the race.. sorry.

BizzleBrizzle (November 4, 2004)

It doesn't matter...the Electoral College decides the president, not even the candidates themselves.

earth23 (November 4, 2004)

Yeah, but in some states they are required to vote for the popular candidate i.e. they can't switch and vote for someone who isn't nominated.

BizzleBrizzle (November 4, 2004)

Yes, but what I'm saying is that it is still mathematically possible for Kerry to win...we won't know for 10 days, and it isn't likely, but claiming it's over because he conceded is assinine.

RightCliqificus (November 4, 2004)

first of all, the word is "asinine". second of all, he formally dropped out of the race.. a candidate can do that at any point.. sorry.

BizzleBrizzle (November 4, 2004)

It doesn't matter...the electoral college picks whoever they pick dipshit... As I said we could be seeing president Chuck Norris sworn in.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

so right, after gore conceded in 2000, he didn't get any votes in the electoral college? oh yeah, he still got 266. dipshit.

jones_the_bones (November 4, 2004)

c'mon Scott, you're not that dumb, right? You really think 130,000 of 150,000 people voted for your boy? Let's just give it a rest and settle in for the next 4 years, it's ovah! -jones the bones

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Jones, I thought you were going to drink drano? What happened?

Someone (November 4, 2004)

you're a cheap wuss emo rock. go fuck yourself, you make me laugh.

_Sexy_Pants_ (November 4, 2004)

Holy fuck I completely forgot about Wuss Emo Rock

Someone (November 4, 2004)

fuck jones, i was about to type that - jones the bones - stevejones8770@yahoo.com

CrookedSuperhero (November 4, 2004)

Are they still counting them after Kerry conceded?

Someone (November 4, 2004)

People don't just vote on the president on election day, dude.

CrookedSuperhero (November 4, 2004)

I know, but with 150,000 votes extra not counted, are they still gonna count them?

BizzleBrizzle (November 4, 2004)

THE CONCESSION SPEACH DID NOT MEAN SHIT YOU FUCKING RETARDS! It was just a formality...it has no bearing on the actual race...if you believe these speaches mean anything then you shouldn't have been allowed to vote. I'm for elitism in voting, if you don't understand the process why should you have the right to partake in it?

Someone (November 4, 2004)

i said that in 2000 regarding florida's numbskull fiasco, and i was called "jim crow"

BizzleBrizzle (November 4, 2004)

It has nothing to do with black and white though, and I really don't care how it would effect results...I'm just sick of hearing people who have barely any understanding of the process say shit like that the concession speaches actually matter at all.

punkpirate (November 4, 2004)

They have to, every vote has to be counted. Thats why yesterday when they gave thier concetion speech, Edwards still said that every vote will be counted. I think its for historical statistics.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Give me a break, Kerry lost. I supported Kerry but we all know when its time to give up. Kerry lost the popular vote by 2 million + votes. Its not like he was the favored person by the public. Bush won, get over it and move on.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Bush lost the popular vote in 2000 and still won. Don't be a quitter.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

And every asshat with a Fat Wrecks CD now owns a "Not my president" T-shirt. Kerry would fit in the same category.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

the simple fact of the matter is, kerry sucked more than bush. the democrats suck ass at choosing candidates. how the fuck did they wind up with kerry. way to go you fucking idiots.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

word, kerry was too easy on bush in the debates, there was so much more shit to call him out on Arnold vs. Clinton 2008

Someone (November 4, 2004)

It's possible but every vote would have to be for Kerry. Highly unlikely.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

that's right everyone. let's pay attention to the jaded political ramblings of a man who refers to himself as "fat mike" and pens juvenile songs about hating his parents and the female genitalia. what a fucking douche.

3+ Replies

thirtyseconds (November 4, 2004)

I like pussy. I pay attention to politics. But what you're saying is, because I like girls amongst other things that makes my political opinion somehow invalid?

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Fair enough....but then why the hell should we listen to a man who's favorite tagline is "I'll be back" and is the poster boy for why you shouldn't take steroids?

Someone (November 4, 2004)

because a majority of the population of california voted him into a position where you have to.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

In a twisted line of thinking, Fat Mike is probalby somewhat happy this has occured. That way he can continue making a lot of money from teenagers by declaring bush is an idiot.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

haha fuck all you liberals. fuck liberalnews.org. ok excuse my while i put on simple plan.

2+ Replies

Someone (November 4, 2004)

who else is tired of the "republipunk=pop punk reference"?

RightCliqificus (November 4, 2004)

what do mean? simple plan is in no way pop-punk... so there's no problem.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I can agree with some of that...living in the Northeast were trying to work out a deal where we become part of Canada. Also in the deal the NHL beings playing. 40gig Photo Ipods http://www.freephotoiPods.com/?r=11404808

4+ Replies

Someone (November 4, 2004)

umm... Being from New Hampshire and having alot of freind from Maine i first must say that "plan" is weak and have never heard it before and when you say "northeast" do you mean southern vermnont becasue not even the hardcore MA liberals would even think of saying or thinking that.

CallingLondon (November 4, 2004)

i think it was a joke you complete retard.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Wow! You now look like the biggest goon ever!

Someone (November 5, 2004)

It's a joke asshole, go drink some draino.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

AHAH punk voter lost. That rules. Im throwing a pity party your all invited. stupid fat mike

Someone (November 4, 2004)

WOW, what bullshit! Someone didnt bother to read the exit polls. 18-23 was up, but up less than every other age demographic not to mention the projected numbers were WAY off. 18-25 didn't show up to vote. Nothing more or less. Fat Mike projecting otherwise is incorrect. In conclusion efforts like punkvoter didnt pan out AT ALL seeing that it didnt motivate the youth at large to go out and vote. Anyone that says otherwise cant read a pie chart.

2+ Replies

Someone (November 4, 2004)

To add to that(because i hate Fat Mike) he also calls Bush uneducated which isnt further from the truth. Bush is a bad president and he is a poor example of a human being, but regardless of the fact he went to Yale and Harvard. Fat Mike cant even think of valid excuses to hate Bush, and we all know they arent hard to come by.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

He went to those schools and got what those in the know refer to as "Gentleman C's." Meaning they couldn't fail him if they wanted to, cause you know, his daddy is rich and all.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Ive gone to various different places to learn and at different places in my life, and never once, regardless of how little i showed up to class and how little i paid attention came out with absolutely 0 knowledge. Even if he failed each and every class and they just passed him because his dad was rich and the head of the CIA(im not sure if he was at that time or not) the fact still remains he has a diploma from both schools and it would be irrational to concider him "uneducated" when hes gone through more years of formal education than most of the population.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

And it couldn't be that all the exit polls were fucked up too? Especially since EVERY channel on TV was bitching about how much they sucked!! You can take your exit polls and cram them up your homophobic ass!!

Someone (November 4, 2004)

How am i homophobic? You are jumping to conclusions my friend. Im not a Bush supporter in the least and appose any sort of restriction on gay marriage or abortion, but yes, im homophobic because i disagree with Fat Mike. Im just anti-punkvoter/fat mike because I think they suck and are full of shit. Exit Polls tell you a lot, shit, thats why half the people on here are sitting and waiting for results in ohio. According to the polls 51% voted for Kerry. They tell you what people are thinking when they place their vote. Its good to understand what people are thinking when they place their vote. Its just sad when 50% of the nation is more concerned with gay marriage and "moral" issues and not worried about a falling economy and a war going very badly.

RightCliqificus (November 4, 2004)

they're NOT telling you what "people" are thinking. that'd be the case if they were at EVERY polling place, counting EVERYBODY. statistics are bullshit.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I've had more formal education than Bush...and even before I started my undergraduate degree I knew enough not to say "misunderestimated". Seriously though, I get your point. But there is more to education than sitting in a classroom. Like traveling. I know it's unfeasible now, but if Bush went and lived with an average middle eastern family and realized that 99.999% of middle easterners are regular nice people and not terrorists...but they're getting blown up anyway. I've met some really nice girls from Baghdad, I don't like the idea of their grandparents and cousins being little pieces of organic material scattered around bomb craters.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

well, i really doubt he thinks that. fuck. doesn't look like the education bit worked out for you either.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Good point...I am here on punknews after all.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

"misunderestimated" "internets" "is our children learning" theres a whole list of bush speaks. The guy is a dumbass.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

you should hear me when i do any public speaking.. i sound like i've got down's syndrome.. and i have business and biology bachelors degrees..

RightCliqificus (November 4, 2004)

hahahahhahaha. degrees don't mean shit douchebag... figure it out.. you just might have down syndrome. how would you know? cuz from here, its looking like a possibility.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

try some midol for your uterine cramping.. I know being on the rag is hard on your hormone levels, but you don't have to be a fucking snatch.. hope you feel better soon..

RightCliqificus (November 4, 2004)

man, if you're going to insult someone, please stick to relevant topics... if you just come up with random nonsense like that, it really doesn't work very well.

Kenjamin (November 4, 2004)

you are probably the most negative obnoxious poster on this board. Seriously, go practice your guitar, you could use it.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Well there's a report that Ashcroft is going to resign (can you say Guliani?). Maybe the next 4 years won't be so bad. And I'm willing to bet it's Guliani/McCain vs. Clinton/Obama '08.

21+ Replies

thirtyseconds (November 4, 2004)

Would Bush not run, or are you only allowed two terms in USA?

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Correct,only two terms. W. has a brother who's the governor of Florida though who will most likely pick up where King George leaves off.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I fear he will try to change the 2 term rule. Hes changed plenty of rules that have been around forever.

RightCliqificus (November 4, 2004)

c'mon dude, he's done so many positive things you refuse to mention..... like how he's made hating gays and women fashionable again.... thats an important step dude. hating people is the first step to equality.

shuzi (November 5, 2004)

that involve a constitutional amendment. it'd take about ever and probably won't happen.

BizzleBrizzle (November 4, 2004)

I'd not vote for either one of those tickets if you flipped them though, it would be hard to choose. because McCain is a wayyyy better candidate than that fascist piece of shit Guiliani, and Obama is a real liberal, and I just really don't like Hillary Clinton one bit.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Eh, Guiliani was a GREAT mayor, i cannot tell you how he would be as a president. Id probably vote for McCain/guiliani because id rather die than vote for Hilary Clinton.

BizzleBrizzle (November 4, 2004)

Obana and Dean is what I'm hoping for... McCain is fucking awesome.

RightCliqificus (November 4, 2004)

HOW was guiliani a great mayor? what nonsense.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Look at NYC before Guiliani and look at NYC after. Thats how. In the 80s it was an absolute shit hole and now its 100 times better and safer than it was. All you need to do is look at Times Square to figure that out.

BizzleBrizzle (November 4, 2004)

Republicans always more concerned with safety than freedom.

Someone (November 5, 2004)

freedom to walk down the street without getting smashed in the face with a brick by a fuckin homeless guy is freedom too..

Someone (November 5, 2004)

safety leads to freedom. there is no freedom without safety.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I don't know if you have ever lived in NY, but whether you call it a police state or not, the city was a cleaner, safer place with Guiliani as mayor.. I lived there from '79-'96 and the city was in its best shape when he was in office!

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Obama has never even been in the Senate! you can blah blah blah about him, but he has done nothing great, not yet anyway

CaptainCrunch (November 4, 2004)

He is charasmatic and he has broad appeal. That is something a lot of democrats don't have.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Yeah, but if he's gonna be national material he's gotta put in some time in the senate first. '08 won't be his year, but he'll turn up eventually.

RightCliqificus (November 4, 2004)

so, you're saying he appeals to broads?

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Whats your point, W was a Governor and had to cheat and lie to get that position before he was "elected" president.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I hope Edwards is the democratic candidate in 2008.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

yeah cause he's cute.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Obama illinois representin!!!

BizzleBrizzle (November 4, 2004)

Edwards is so-so...but I'm still rooting for Dean.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Edwards has the same chance as Kerry did. Not very good. Edwards actually HURT the kerry campaign quite a bit. He added NO electoral vote support via his addition while Dean i could have seen help take Ohio. Hindsight is 20/20, but Edwards really hurt Kerry's chances of winning by not being able to help get a single electoral vote they wouldnt have gotten already.

sickboi (chris) (November 4, 2004)

You think America will vote a woman and an African American in right after GW, and TOGETHER?!?!?!?!

CrookedSuperhero (November 4, 2004)

Ahh, sensibility.

BizzleBrizzle (November 4, 2004)

I say Keyes(R) and Obama(D) get nominated...then we'll see what the rednecks do...then we'll see what the rednecks do.

flamebaitnickloving (November 4, 2004)

JESSE THE BODY VENTURA SAID HE IS RUNNING IN '08!!!! HE SAID IT AT WRESTLEMANIA XX. That's my vote.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I think McCain vs. Obama would be awesome.. doubt it will happen though. It would totally open up the field for right wing third parties if it did happen. And a lot of those people would mistakenly vote Libertarian, cause Libertarian is so right wing... not.

RightCliqificus (November 4, 2004)

yay for the wayne's world reference!!!!333 w000t!555

sk8punx4evr (November 4, 2004)

giuliani will never get elected because he's a guido.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Obama has already said he will not run for president in 2008, however, I definately would not rule out 2012 if the opportunity presents itself. I personally live in Illinois and think this man would make an amazing president. Just please, never mention him and Hillary on the same ticket, especially if you're going to put her as the president.

peilocal (November 4, 2004)

I think by now that everyone realizes that these silly organizations that pop up every 4 years to get young people to vote don't really work. "Rock the vote", "vote or die", "punkvoter", these things just don't work. I do commend them for trying, but let's be honest, it doesn't make a big difference. I do think things like punkvoter are a little more important. At least that website had some information and articles and what not. What the fuck did P. Diddy have? A t-shirt and a bad mohawk? I'm sorry, but if I didn't plan on voting, P. Diddy or Fat Mike wouldn't have changed my mind. Hell, if I could have voted in the US election (je suis Canadien), I would have voted for Nader. All those votes for Kerry were just as wasted as they were for Nader. At least if Nader had gotten more votes, 3rd parties would have been taken more seriously next time.

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

I definitely think P. Diddy had more of an affect then Rock The Vote or PunkVoter.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

" At least if Nader had gotten more votes, 3rd parties would have been taken more seriously next time." Nader got a lot more votes last election and he got alot less this time. You're wrong.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

It still wasn't enough to get him into the debates idiot. Or any real national recognition, thats what the person is talking about. You may be retarded. I hope you can't vote.

CaptainCrunch (November 4, 2004)

Puff Daddy is a fucking liar. We voted, and now we're all probably going to die anyways.

BizzleBrizzle (November 4, 2004)

The vote was left unrocked.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Ralph Nader is fucking senile... are you nuts?

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Uh-oh, it's another Michael Moore kid who saw F 9/11 so now he/she reads his website and acts like he/she knows what they're talking about. Good job learning about politics. Seriously, a message to most people on punknews and punkvoter, if youre too stupid and don't really take a look at the issues from different perspectives, please don't vote.

BizzleBrizzle (November 4, 2004)

Ralph Nader actually knows what he's talking about...he's a real liberal... It's an insult to liberals everywhere when the republicans called Kerry a liberal.

some1 (November 4, 2004)

if I'm not mistaken Michael Badnarik got the bulk of the third party votes this time

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Punkvoter = crybaby Fat Mike = fat crybaby

CaptainCrunch (November 4, 2004)

I hate the outcome of this election. I can't believe a state that lost 250,000 jobs since Bush took over voted him for re-election. Great job, Ohio. Bin Laden IS going to put us into massive debt and I fear the country will never be the same. With that being said, the Republicans flat-out beat the democrats. They got those Jesus freaks out to the polls with the Gay marriage ban and it got Bush a ton more votes. That is a great strategy. Why the hell aren't the democrats smart enough to be organized? The outcome of this election is a lot about how weak the democratic party is. Seriously, with how corrupt everything is bush realistically should have lost by 15%. The Democrats let us down, too.

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

did you ever think maybe the people who voted for Kerry got it wrong. did you ever look at the other side.. maybe gays shouldn't get married. - The Merry Prankster

Someone (November 4, 2004)

why shouldn't they...does it really effect you all that much if one dude wants to stick his dick in another dudes ass on there wedding night?

Someone (November 4, 2004)

they only want to get married for the tax write offs and shit. fuck them

RightCliqificus (November 4, 2004)

um, thats why EVERYONE wants to get married, douchebag..

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Actually part of it is so that if the one dies, the other can have the rights of a spouse. Right now, they can spend their lives with each other and when one dies, they don't have the rights of a spouse. The deceased one's family can take everything of the deceased.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Or his mouth! -Richard Simmons

CaptainCrunch (November 4, 2004)

I did look at the other side, but the fact of the matter is, are we better off than we were 4 years ago? Not in any way.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

maybe you're not. but i know alot of people who. including me.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

i am.. i just got a job offer for $85k.. i was only making $65k before..

Someone (November 4, 2004)

" i was only making $65k before.." oh shut the hell up...

Someone (November 4, 2004)

And maybe the Southerners shouldn't be allowed to fuck their cousins. -Chinatown

Someone (November 5, 2004)

but she's sooooo good..

Someone (November 5, 2004)

The thing you need to realize is, the job market began its decline towards the end of the Clinton administration. I was severely screwed by it when I graduated college. The problem is, jobs don't make themselves. Companies need to be making money for employee hiring and retention. In order for companies to make money, people need to be spending money, not only on products, but investing in stocks as well. When the bubble burst on the god-damned dot.coms, due to investors realizing that there was no earning potential for 99% of these companies, people who were not normally investors had put a bunch of money into a bullshit bull market, and got screwed, losing a LOT of money. People then stopped investing and spending, companies started losing money, and jobs were lost. There is no quick fix to that problem. Its a cycle that needs to work itself out. The best way to

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CaptainCrunch (November 5, 2004)

That may be true, but that is only half the problem. The other half is the fact that Bush has made us the most despised country in the world. Kerry would definitely repair those ties.

Someone (November 6, 2004)

I don't necessarily agree with that.. most of the world views us a spoiled rednecks, no matter WHO is in charge.. I would guess that the populations of the rest of the world would have still seen Kerry's views as too right wing as well.. Even the countries that stand with us on the war on terror are filled with people that have a generally negative outlook on the US, and I really don't think that is ever going to change. England is an example of that. In my opinion, it has alot do with our ridiculous Christian affiliation. For a country that is supposed to be based on seperation of church and state to allow freedom of religion and to remove the idea of religious persecution, we sure are being overrun by know-it-all zealots that want to send our way of life back to the 1600s. European countries have done well to avoid these kinds of religious ties. But I can't sa

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

I am not going to even go into why I voted for Bush, but all you little teeny-boppers should realize that punk musicians are not the ones you should be listening to for political advice. They are uneducated and should concentrate on playing music and being the dirtbag lowlifes that they are. Realize what source you are getting your information from... JERKOFFS!

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

but this guy is educated. listen to him.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Im one better, i copied and pasted his message into paint and played with the text. Now i have a genius passage as a backdrop on my computer.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

being a republican myself...this is just embarassing

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I hope you die you fucking Conservative jackoff. You're part of the blame. -Chinatown

Someone (November 4, 2004)

you seem intelligent.. keep up the good work..

Someone (November 4, 2004)

he's right though, music was better back when it was all about the music, and not about the politics. i can't go to a show now without hearing the band spew out their opinion on the current state of the nation. and 99% of the bands i go to see have music that is not politically orientented whatsoever. keep it that way fuckers, if i want politics i'll watch cnn, i listen to music to get away from that shit.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Hey buddy, music, especially "rock" music, has been political in some shape or form since about, oh yeah, THE 1960's. Remember that little thing called Woodstock? Also, if you are going to bitch about punkrock being political, you obviously have gotten outside of your little poppunk world. Since the days of the Sex Pistols and the Clash punk rock has been politically driven in some form. Next time, think before you speak.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Thank goodness this election did not end up being decided on impressionable 18 year olds who dont know their ass from their elbow. The legal voting age should be 21.

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RightCliqificus (November 4, 2004)

it should be 21-49

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I second that

Someone (November 5, 2004)

you think its ok for 18 year olds to go off to war and not be able to vote? thats pretty unbelievable.

punkpirate (November 4, 2004)

The voting age should be when you get your first job that you pay taxes on. This is why, our tax money makes this country run so if your paying taxes that go in to the country, you should have a say on what should be done with it.

LushJ (November 4, 2004)

Punkvoter has done a great job in helping to re-inject politics into a lot of the newer punk scenes that had become more apolitical than previous scenes. I'm looking forward to continuing to work with Punkvoter because if we- the people reading this board and going to shows and buying/downloading punk music- don't stand up and take part, the jackasses will consolidate their power and take our country away from us. The poster above who said "fuck it, me in 2008" is right. I ran for local office this past election (didn't win, but it was an incredible experience) and I'll still be involved with local politics regardless of the Chimp-In-Chief. Punkvoter's a way for more of us to step up and get support from across the country for our local races. THAT'S the ongoing value of Punkvoter as we move towards 2008- there's mid-term elections, Supreme Court fights, and every local and

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

You are a joke, punkvoter did nothing of the sort. They injected an idea of "fuck bush" into punkrock. thats not injecting politics but injecting blind hatred. Bullshit to that. Bruce Springstein>Bon Jovi>>>>>Bruce Springstein's shit>>>>>Punk Voter.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

i actually laughed out loud when i read the part where fat mike said "credible"

Someone (November 4, 2004)

sprinstEEN. not jewish.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

start a movment to impeach bush on incompetence.

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RightCliqificus (November 4, 2004)

well, thats kinda what the election was for, but it didn't quite happen.

swingline (November 4, 2004)

obama... pshhh.... more like.... OSAMA BIN LADEN. huh?

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thirtyseconds (November 4, 2004)

Nope, obama.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

chlorophyll....more like BORE-OPHYLL!! -Billy Madison

RightCliqificus (November 4, 2004)

no i will not make out with you?

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Anyone else find it funny that the places that were effected on 9/11 voted for Kerry. Don’t get down, this is going to be a long fight.

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swingline (November 4, 2004)

i found it funny when someone pointed that out on the daily show...

Someone (November 4, 2004)

haha. yeah, good job watching the daily show

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Considering New York City and D.C. have always been Democrat havens, the answer is no. This election wasn't just about the war on terrorism...or gays for that matter. You "punks" need to go get jobs and start paying taxes and actually start thinking about how your tax dollars are spent, and then you will realize there was more at stake in this election than gay marriage (which you don't have to be a "homophobe" to disapprove of). By the way, Fat Mike is an ignorant idiot...please find another leader to follow. At least find someone willing to look and explore other opinions.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I think it's pretty clear how American tax dollars are spent; building up an overblown military to 'protect the homeland' while allowing its cities to crumble, its environment to degredate and much of its population to go without healthcare and the opportunity for post-secondary education.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Wow. Please let me know which cities are crumbling in the U.S.. Furthermore, healthcare and post-secondary education are not rights. Get a job, work hard, be rewarded for your efforts...too many freeloaders in this country expect to receive healthcare and post-secondary education (among other things) without having to work for it...maybe those making $200K+ should just stop working or leave the U.S...oh shit, then who would subsidize the freeloaders? Remember that the top 5% of tax payers pay 53% of the taxes in this country. You want them to keep subsidizing things for you, then I'd stop bitching so much.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Buffalo and PIttsburgh, to name two.

Someone (November 5, 2004)

Then maybe you should move.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

First of all fuck off. What the fuck are you doing on this message board anyway then?

Someone (November 4, 2004)

What? Can't listen to an alternative point of view? Stuck in the "punk" tunnel vision? Why are you on this message board? To say "Bush sucks!" over and over and just have other morons agree with you all day?

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Don't you have some gay people to go beat up or something?

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Still waiting for some sort of intelligent response from you.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

You hate gay people just say it. You haven't said anything intelligent either. Your just some right wing nut job, I hope Jesus comes down and fucks you in the ass.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

In 10 years, once you've gotten through adolescence (and you are of voting age), I hope your mind is a little more developed. Over and out.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

"I love Jesus and I hate gay people and I didn't burry body parts of friends in 9/11and you kids I silly for voting Kerry."

Someone (November 5, 2004)

Wow, you made an ass of yourself.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Have you ever left the US? Maybe you should get out of your Redneck state and realize the effect that the US is having on the rest of the world. It's not a very positive one these days. I hear the Army is looking for people, why don't you go sign up.

RightCliqificus (November 4, 2004)

and yeah, you actually do have to hate gays to not want them to marry. its true.. how the hell could it not be true?

Someone (November 4, 2004)

maybe he dosnt HATE them,just thinks theyre inferior and dont deserve as many rights.

Someone (November 5, 2004)

i'm heterosexual and i can't marry a guy, homosexuals can't marry a guy either. that's equal rights.

Someone (November 5, 2004)

Kerry was anti gay marriage too.. so its not just republicans that feel that way..

Kenjamin (November 5, 2004)

but atleast he would let the individual states decide, meaning that (while inconvenient) gay couples could go out of state to get married.

druhol (November 5, 2004)

The key is that Kerry wanted to leave the decision up to the individual states, as opposed to putting through a constitutional amendment to prohibit gay marriage. Which, I might add, is the same position Bush had four years ago. And people talk about Kerry being a flip-flopper...

Someone (November 5, 2004)

Let the individual states decide. They will vote no. Each and every one of them.

Someone (November 5, 2004)

California wouldn't.

Someone (November 5, 2004)

then how come california didn't put it in their vote? 11 states did, and 11 states voted NO..

Someone (November 5, 2004)

if you knew anything about politics, you would know that DC, NY, and PA normally always vote liberal anyways. Espeically DC, which has never gone to a conservative candidate, and NY rarely does.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

"There's no fucking way I am going to come together with these homophobic, flag-waving, god-fearing, gun-toting, uneducated, isolationist, ethnocentric REDNECKS" wow, thats a pretty bigoted ignorant response. i'm sure many people dont want to come together with "degenerate, cokehead, flag burning, uneducated, mohawk wearing, dirty punks" i hate how everyone is trying to say that it was "homophobes" that won the election for bush. the fact is that more people actually approve of going to iraq (51%) than disapprove(45%), and more people approve of the bush's overall job(53%) as president than disapprove(46%) more people trust bush to handle the economy than they trust kerry, more people think the us is going in the right direction, more people had a favorable opinion of bush than kerry, more people think the tax cuts were good for the economy than bad. most of these statistics were fair

show rest of comment"There's no fucking way I am going to come together with these homophobic, flag-waving, god-fearing, gun-toting, uneducated, isolationist, ethnocentric REDNECKS" wow, thats a pretty bigoted ignorant response. i'm sure many people dont want to come together with "degenerate, cokehead, flag burning, uneducated, mohawk wearing, dirty punks" i hate how everyone is trying to say that it was "homophobes" that won the election for bush. the fact is that more people actually approve of going to iraq (51%) than disapprove(45%), and more people approve of the bush's overall job(53%) as president than disapprove(46%) more people trust bush to handle the economy than they trust kerry, more people think the us is going in the right direction, more people had a favorable opinion of bush than kerry, more people think the tax cuts were good for the economy than bad. most of these statistics were fairly close, but so was the overall election. now if you are going to chalk all of this up to "homophobes", then you are living in a dream world and need to grow up. mike has his head in his ass. also, as far as uneducated goes, in the three categories of high school degree, some college, and college grad, more people voted for bush than kerry. more people voted for kerry if they didnt have a high school degree (but the percentage was 49 to 50, so this might as well be equqal). kerry did get more people with post grad study, but if fat mike is calling a college graduate uneducated, whats that make him? also, i know you dont need a college degree to educate yourself, so no point in bitching about it. as far as god fearing, protestants voted for bush 59% compared to the 40% kerry got. this is hardly an overwhelming amount. this is close to the numbers that gore got. and catholics only preffered bush 52% to 47%. gore actually won the catholic vote 4 years ago. and jewish people voted 74 % for kerry and 23 for bush. which is similar to the bush gore election year. when it comes to bloc voting, the jewish religion does it more than christians, and they do it for the dems. christians are fairly evenly split, so dont try and say bush won because of the fearful religious type. - jones the bones - stevejones8770@yahoo.com

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

Word! Fat Mike is the LAST person who should be persuading people to vote. He is as bad, if not worse than P. Diddy.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I will disagree with some things you said. A VERY large percentage of the bible thumpers came out in record numbers to make sure things like gay marriage were BANNED from their state. The draw of your religious nuts was much larger than 2000 and more than I think the Democrats expected. I reference a lot of my thoughts on the election to Exit Polls, but the thing is, people can lie right to the guys face so he doesnt seem so "ignorant". He can say "i voted because i think bush keeps me safer" but hes really saying "Bush is a religious nut like myself and i like that" Its hard to say, but i do agree with your bashes on Fat Mike. What a complete asshat.

SteveJonesTheRealBones (November 4, 2004)

do you really think that the people you call "religious nuts" would lie about going to church and not wanting gay marriage? i mean these are religious nuts we are talking about. my info was from the exit polls posted on cnn by the way. - jones the bones - stevejones8770@yahoo.com

SteveJonesTheRealBones (November 4, 2004)

and when comparing the exit polls from 2000 and 2004, the religion numbers are almost exactly the same http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/results/index.epolls.htm l - 2000 http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/ P/00/epolls.0.html - 2004 - jones the bones

Someone (November 4, 2004)

holy shit. bones smoked all of you AGAIN.

swingline (November 4, 2004)

yea. cocks. smoked all of them.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Looking at this years most important quality "religious faith" EIGHT PERCENT OF THE COUNTRY CONSIDERED THIS THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE! NINETY ONE PERCENT VOTED BUSH. that means roughly 7.2 percent of the vote came from the really extreme bible thumpers. 16 percent of weekly churchgoers voted 70 percent bush. Whether those #s have gone up slightly or not, people should vote on actual issues. Religion is single handedly dumbing down america.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

i agree, people should vote on actual issues.. you don't think those issues could tie directly into their religious stance do you jackass? say like, gay marriage and abortion? putz. and while there are many overzealous self-righteous christians out there, not all are like that. guess what? i'm a christian and i'm pro-gay marriage and i don't hate minorities! that throws a wrench in your equally ignorant stereotype doesn't it?

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I don't think gay marriage is a political issue. Not everyone should have to give a fuck if some 2000 year outdated book that was written before science says so and so nonsense. Do you know how much nonsense is in that book? If we enforced everything in that book, slavery would be acceptable, people would be executed for working on sundays, plenty of other shit. Its not an issue and people shouldn't vote on crap like that. As to abortion, a good deal of "pro-life" people voted for a candidate who has killed 10,000-30,000 civilians and led 1100 American soldiers into their graves based on false information. Kinda silly huh? Oh, what about the extremely "pro-life" people who detonate pipe bombs in abortion clinics and stem cell research labs? In the name of pro-life? Gimme a break. Call yourselfs anti-abortion, but dont go trying to mislead people. If you're a moderate christia

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

eh, your religious info is a bit skewed. a lot of people may claim a religion, but that doesn't make them religious, it's usually just a family thing. a more accurate assesment is the poll that asked people who were regular church goers who they would vote for. the results were overwhelmingly for bush, i think it was over 80%.

SteveJonesTheRealBones (November 4, 2004)

no . you are actually wrong. of the 16% of people who actually go to church MORE THAN ONCE per week, yes they favored bush more, but by only 64%, when people went to church weekly (26%) they favored bush only 58%. when they went monthly, the vote was about even 50% bush, 49% kerry - jones the bones - stevejones8770@yahoo.com

Someone (November 4, 2004)

the trend, therefore, is the more religious you are, the more conservative. plus, i'm wondering what percentage of those church goers voting for Kerry are minorities. i'd wager a signifcant portion. there's an article in the October 25 US News and World Report on religion and its correlation to party allegiance. the overwhelming trend is the more secular, the more liberal, and the more religious, the more conservative. the whole abortion debate is spearheaded by Christian organizations, the Christian Coalition has fervently worked to turn Family Values into Federal Law. i grew up with this stuff, the Religious Right does exist and it is a powerful force. anyone living in highly conservative areas can attest to that.

SteveJonesTheRealBones (November 4, 2004)

yes, the people who go to church more than weekly are very much conservative, but about the same amount of people that go to church more than weekly, have no religion at all. and these people without religion vote democratic. you might as well say "those egocentric athiests handed kerry the state of california" or some bullshit like that. when it comes to going to church semi regularly, which is the majority, the vote is split. "religious nuts" did not hand bush the overall presidency any more than athiests handed kerry the state of cali - jones

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Steve Jones, I admire you

RightCliqificus (November 4, 2004)

um, dude, since when are statistics fact? i don't remember getting my chance to fill out that particular survey.

SteveJonesTheRealBones (November 4, 2004)

its all there is to go by. if you disregard this, then never try to ever say bush won because of uneducated homophobic religious rednecks like mike did - jones the bones

Someone (November 4, 2004)

your approval ratings are wrong according to gallup, 51 percent approve while 46 disapprove according to NBC, 49 approve wile 48 disapprove http://www.pollingreport.com/BushJob.htm

SteveJonesTheRealBones (November 4, 2004)

mine were from the cnn poles. there is a link in one of these responses by me. either way, it still says the same thing, more people approve, even if it isnt by alot (bush didnt win by alot) - joneser

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Again.......Fat Mike is his name. Why doesn't he run for office if he's so smart. He'll show how ignorant he in fact is. He'll call all the other non-God lovers out there that they are fuckheads for voting against gay marriage and we'll see how far that gets him. Hey Fat Mike, you hate that so many soldiers are being killed, but you support the deaths of innocent babie? Ahhh, the irony. Just play your music and shut up. And NO, Hillary would never win the presidency. It's just the truth. Tell your party to stop hating and deal or maybe even try to work with other parties in power. The republicans had to deal with Clinton for 8 years.

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flamebaitnickloving (November 4, 2004)

You are retarded. Abortion isn't killing innocent babies. If you want to see that invite me over when you have your newborn and I'll eat it you fucking pussy! Get off the punk rock site with your bullshit beliefs, punk is all about chaos and kicking ass.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

OK then, if abortion isn't about killing babies, what is it? You sound very intelligent, i'm sure you'll have the right answer.

flamebaitnickloving (November 4, 2004)

They aren't fucking babies yet. So fuck all that shit. Why do you give a fuck about someone else's business anyways? Who are you to tell anyone what to do with their life? Have you ever asked yourself that? Probably not you dumbass. The second someone tells me what to do with my life I tell them to suck it and do the D-Generation X sign! You aren't a sweet educated man, quit acting like one.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

you have the biological basis to back that up? I've taken 3 biology classes on it in my major and i've STILL not made up my mind about it..

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Who needs a biological basis? Wouldn't the child conceivably be born if the parent didn't choose to abort? The only exception is miscarriage or other complications at birth.

Someone (November 5, 2004)

Tell me you didn't just say "d-generation X sign". If anyone takes your opinion about anything they are just as ignorant as yourself. Besides, like the guy says, who are you to determine what a "baby" is or isn't? You'll take the goverments word on telling you a child is...how un punk rock of you. Please think before you speak.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

it's about the women's right to choose douchefuck. not killing babies. it's their body...therefore its their choice not your cocksmokin ass or george bush's.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

this sounds like the most ignorant abortion arguement ever from both sides. at what point does the forming child get a right to choose? she's deciding for more than just herself. you're dealing with another human.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Yes! Have all those fetuses grow to become the soldiers that die for the President! It's a shame they won't be ready to die for another 18 years though, looks like a draft is the only way to go!

Someone (November 4, 2004)

" Senator Kerry today said that now we need to come together and heal as a nation. FUCK THAT. There's no fucking way I am going to come together with these homophobic, flag-waving, god-fearing, gun-toting, uneducated, isolationist, ethnocentric REDNECKS..... They do not care about gay people, they do not care about sick people, they do not care about black people, they do not care about poor people, they do not care about the rest of the world, they do not care about our environment, and they especially don't care about a woman's right to choose. " .enough said. .f this country. and middle america.

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

People like you are actually tearing this country apart.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

we're already split. Look at our country. It's sick. It's another civil war coming. My city's just about in flames- people crying, protesting, pissed. This contry's not as strong as most would like to believe.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

If all of these punkvoter and moveon.org jokers would start to listen, maybe they'd lend a hand and make the world better instead of bitching about how terrible America is. If you want to blame anyone, blame the fuckin terrorists who kill our families and feel good about it.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

and blame bush

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Hahahah, there is no active large-scale terrorist force except the U.S. Army.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

ummm...WTF are you talking about? civil war yea that will come right after Afgnistan is the worlds most powerefull superpower and a woman dominated nation.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

no, that would be like George W.'s fault. remember in 2000? that BS he was spouting about how he wanted to come to Washington and be this great uniter and end the partisan bickering? i wonder how fighting to push far right ideals into the mainstream WOULDN'T cause massive cultural and ethical divides? conclusion: liar. the guy makes his dad look like a sweetheart.

flamebaitnickloving (November 4, 2004)

Fuck all that pussy democracy shit, it's time to fucking gear up for the real war that is coming. That being the day that we start losing mad rights (more so than now) I'm going to riot, whose with me? We will execute government mother fuckers because they are pigs and take the land over and have true freedom! PUNX UNITE!

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

Go ahead, let's see who joins you.

flamebaitnickloving (November 4, 2004)

I'd rather die fighting than living in martial law, think about it you dumb fuck.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Are you going to murder me too? You know, since I am a Christian and a Bush supporter.

Someone (November 5, 2004)

YEAH! lets stop killing iraqies and kill each other!! YEAH!! OI OI OI!!

SteveJonesTheRealBones (November 4, 2004)

does mike have an email address that he actually reads? - jones the bones - stevejones8770@yahoo.com

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flamebaitnickloving (November 4, 2004)

I looked for the same thing, I wanted to email him with some serious shit, not just me going off about throwing fireballs at buildings and shit (even though that is cool). Oh well I could probably find it but I got bigger fish to fry.

SteveJonesTheRealBones (November 4, 2004)

i actually wanted to ask what i can do to get bush out of office and see what he says - jones the bones - stevejones8770@yahoo.com

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Why don't you ask him if he could deficate on your chest?

SteveJonesTheRealBones (November 4, 2004)

since he's a "punk" hes probably into that kinda thing, and i'm not ready for that yet - jones the bones - stevejones8770@yahoo.com

swingline (November 4, 2004)

pussy

SteveJonesTheRealBones (November 4, 2004)

have you had someone shit on your chest before? - jones the bones - stevejones8770@yahoo.com is it messy?

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Man your retarded.... use your imagination. Maybe you dont have one since your a Bush supporter.

SteveJonesTheRealBones (November 4, 2004)

yeah. i guess kerry supporters would be the kind of people who are good at imagining what its like when someone shits on your chest. thanks for pointing that out - jones the bones - stevejones8770@yahoo.com

Someone (November 4, 2004)

get a fuckin life you two. especially jones...christ.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I voted for Nader

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Big_Guy (November 4, 2004)

why?

some1 (November 4, 2004)

so did I. Badnarik is cooler though.

Someone (November 5, 2004)

I voted for Kodos.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I hate posting anonymously, mostly I hate posting at all (since 99% of these are postings with lots of capital letters and most of those capital letters are in groups of four). Anyhow, here are some facts since everyone out there seems to think Fat Mike is the Devil. 1) Punk Voter did what it could, sure there was a huge “Anti-Bush” message but unfortunately that was the most prominent issue of the time and had to be courted as such. 2) Fat Mike is not making a bag of cash off of Punk Voter. If anything he’s losing money. The “Rock Against Bush” comps were like what, seven dollars a piece? And they had a DVD in them, your local punk rock sampler probably isn’t even that cheap. 3) The main short coming of Punk Voter was the demographic. Unfortunately many of the kids (I use kids in the legal term) who listen to punk (and therefore Punk Voter) are under the a

show rest of commentI hate posting anonymously, mostly I hate posting at all (since 99% of these are postings with lots of capital letters and most of those capital letters are in groups of four). Anyhow, here are some facts since everyone out there seems to think Fat Mike is the Devil. 1) Punk Voter did what it could, sure there was a huge “Anti-Bush” message but unfortunately that was the most prominent issue of the time and had to be courted as such. 2) Fat Mike is not making a bag of cash off of Punk Voter. If anything he’s losing money. The “Rock Against Bush” comps were like what, seven dollars a piece? And they had a DVD in them, your local punk rock sampler probably isn’t even that cheap. 3) The main short coming of Punk Voter was the demographic. Unfortunately many of the kids (I use kids in the legal term) who listen to punk (and therefore Punk Voter) are under the age of 18. No offense it’s a fact, I was 12 when I bought my first “punk” album, I imagine most of the kids are still the same. 4) Bush won for a real simple reason, more Republicans showed up to vote than Democrats. And some of those Democrats who did vote voted for Bush. For some reason a lot of the kids in the 18-24 year old range would rather watch “Punked” than actually vote. And you’re a liar and a fool if you think Homophobia didn’t play into this election. What was it 12 states that voted to ban gay marriage and civil unions? And guess who won? A President who supports a ban on gay marriage. Sure it sucks for those of us on the other side of the fence, but I ultimately believe that the Bush election will damage the Republican party for the next 20 years. I truly believe in my heart with no fear of re-election campaign and faith that he has a mandate (whether from the people of from God) Bush will bring unheard of havoc to the world. Let’s see where this takes us though. Let’s educate ourselves first. Then let’s make the right choice (whatever that may be). P.S. Since I probably wont read any reasponses just IM me in AIM: Much2Bored, That is if you really feel it's important.

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

Actually it's only about 2 or 3 Bush supporters on here that have posted about hundred times. Don't let it fool you - it's been proven by the IP addresses several times now

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Hey, punkvoter punkers! Still raw about Tuesday? Still reaching for that needle or that bottle of vicodins? Well, don't fret--buck up now, for the war for 2008 starts today. And you are all on the frontlines! And you can all get involved today for the next war for 2008! There's still some spots open for internships, precinct captains and youth coordinators for the next great grassroots movement... Davis/Dean 2008! Gray Davis

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

that's the stupidest posting i've ever read. you should be banned forever.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Don't cry my big-hearted man, good ol' Gray Davis is here to wipe those tears... Gray Davis

Someone (November 4, 2004)

the democratic party is complete shit right now. unless they seriously get their shit together somehow in the next four years, there isn't going to be a democrat in office for a while. the fact that kerry was the candidate that they wound up choosing is evidence enough that this party is completely fucking retarded and devoid of organization. way to go idiots.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

If you're on this site and are a Republican, get the fuck off it.

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

Why? So you guys don't have to hear other opinions? What the hell is the point of a message board if everyone has to think alike?

SteveJonesTheRealBones (November 4, 2004)

might as well say the same thing about democrats -jones the bones -stevejones8770@yahoo.com

Someone (November 4, 2004)

...considering nearly 100% of the Punk Rock community sits on the left

SteveJonesTheRealBones (November 4, 2004)

shows how far the "punk rock community" has fallen from being punk.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Kill all the Christians, execution-style!

Someone (November 4, 2004)

you idiot. You would be arrested if you said "Kill all Blacks execution style" but you are quite welcome to say "Kill all Christians" . History is repeating itself you ignorant rage-aholic.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

should punks be democrats? are democrats really any better then republicans? is big government what punk rock is all about?

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I thought it was about no government at all, which would probably put you more toward Republican ideology than Democrat.

DestroyingTheScene (November 4, 2004)

Actually, that would be libertarianism, as republicans offer little personal freedom.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Yay Canada

punkpirate (November 4, 2004)

McCain/Lieberman in 08' or McCain/Edwards in 08' or you can flip them around But this will never happen becuase everyone wants to divide instead of bi-partisanship. We want it all and not willing to compramise because we're greety American fucks.

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punkpirate (November 4, 2004)

greedy sorry.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I think it'd be nice if we could at least have a P / VP that gets along. Great idea on bi-partisanship ticket...welcome yourself to reality whenever you get a chance. Oh, and having a trial lawyer in the White House is a great idea. There's enough support for frivolous lawsuits out there already that scare large drug manufacturers from developing much needed drugs for society.

punkpirate (November 4, 2004)

did you not read the last part of my comment? I said this would never happen. I' m living in reality and reality is filled with a bunch of asshole who only think about whats best for them and how is this going to effect me.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Who the fuck needs the South and Midwest anyway? PS Fuck Ohio too. http://consoles.prizecube.com/?ref=3291

Someone (November 4, 2004)

wwwwwaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Someone (November 4, 2004)

My predictions for the next 4 years: -Iraq will continue to be an absolute mess. -Terrorist cells continue to gain members. -North Korea and Iran continue to be significant nuclear threats. -The economy of the U.S. will go into a nosedive, other countries will be more reluctant to trade with them (Bush is probably the most hated man in the world). Job losses should be in the range of 1-2 million. Beyond that, the average person's income will be worth far less than it is now due to inflation and the fact that the new jobs being created to replace the ones that left just don't pay (it's tough to make a living working at Wal-Mart). -Oil and Natural Gas exploration in the Alaska refuge will cause irreversible environmental damage. -Despite that, Oil and Natural Gas prices will continue to skyrocket. -The U.S. will ban gay marriage, stem cell research and ban abortion or at least

show rest of comment

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CaptainCrunch (November 4, 2004)

You forgot to mention that there will most likely be another terrorist attack, followed by the re-adoption of a military draft, and expansion of the patriot act, and mass exodus to Canada!

Someone (November 4, 2004)

good, pack up today and move to Canada please! Mexico is a good country too I heard, alot of economic opportunities and police protection.

Kenjamin (November 4, 2004)

I agree with every thing you said except the price of oil and gas rising being Bush's fault. China is a rapidly modernizing and industrializing nation. They are buying huge amounts of crude oil. It's more of a supply vs. demand situation. The rise of oil prices will not stop. However, i will continue to to conserve energy and be more resourceful because lower gas prices is not worth destroying the last untouched wilderness in Alaska and the world.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

like have you been listening to emo all day or something?

CrankWillDestroy (November 4, 2004)

Yea, I predicted most of what you just stated. I also think there is a possibilty of a draft. The troops are already stretched too thin and sadly another 1500 or so may be killed in Iraq in the next 2 years alone. Also, Roe vs Wade may indeed be overturned... I am thinking about applying for canadian citizenship (or dual-citizenship), to see what happens..

Someone (November 4, 2004)

http://img105.exs.cx/img105/3930/239620w39n.jpg

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

haha so true

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Fuck Green Day! Fuck Fat Mike! GC RULES! Oi Oi Oi THE REPUBLICANPUX!

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

gay

Someone (November 4, 2004)

homophobe

Someone (November 5, 2004)

Aborting babies big government tool

Someone (November 4, 2004)

you really have no clue.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

i dont like bush i dont particularly like kerry some of NOFX's music is ok.. i wouldnt say im a fat mike "fan" really however, a lot of you are criticizing fat mike's efforts to make a contribution to the outcome of the country, and wether or not you think hes "punk" or you are more "punk" shouldnt make a difference... to all of you that were slamming his efforts i leave you with a quote from Ian McKaye... and if you wanna argue about his validity to the punk scene, go ahead hahahaha... "you tell me that i make no difference, at least im fucking trying, what the fuck have you done?" -siren11

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Yep, Fat Mike and Punkvoter.com gave it their "best shot"...but just like the Democratic Party, all you did was bash Bush instead of putting forth a new vision for America and/or explain why we should vote for Kerry (other than the fact that he is not Bush). I am elated that Bush got re-elected. It was a slap in the face to the smug hollywood left, irrelevant bands and singers (like Fat Mike) who cluelessly pandered for your vote, the liberal slanted media (especially CBS), plus it was a collective middle finger from the majority of voters to the terrorists notifying them that we will not be intimidated with their threats. Why would you vote against Bush when the terrorists are rooting for Kerry? Why would you want a commander-in-chief who thinks we should pass a global test before defending ourselves against our enemies? Why do you want a president who would raise your taxes if

show rest of commentYep, Fat Mike and Punkvoter.com gave it their "best shot"...but just like the Democratic Party, all you did was bash Bush instead of putting forth a new vision for America and/or explain why we should vote for Kerry (other than the fact that he is not Bush). I am elated that Bush got re-elected. It was a slap in the face to the smug hollywood left, irrelevant bands and singers (like Fat Mike) who cluelessly pandered for your vote, the liberal slanted media (especially CBS), plus it was a collective middle finger from the majority of voters to the terrorists notifying them that we will not be intimidated with their threats. Why would you vote against Bush when the terrorists are rooting for Kerry? Why would you want a commander-in-chief who thinks we should pass a global test before defending ourselves against our enemies? Why do you want a president who would raise your taxes if he won? Why do you think Kerry would have been strong on terror when his senate record shows he voted against all of the major defense and intelligence bills? I have yet to hear a liberal answer any of those questions. But I guess Kerry's resolve (or lack of) needn't be questioned anymore since the right candidate won. Here are some Fat Mike "gems": "There's no fucking way I am going to come together with these homophobic, flag-waving, god-fearing, gun-toting, uneducated, isolationist, ethnocentric REDNECKS." GOOD. We don't want to deal with you either. Being that the Republicans control the White House, the Senate, and the House, now we won't have to. Fat Mike talks about ignorance and then he immediately stereotypes, pigeonholes and categorizes all Bush supports. Who is really being ignorant here? "WE ARE RIGHT...THEY ARE WRONG..."? Well the majority of voters don't seem to think so. See ya in four years chubby!

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thirtyseconds (November 4, 2004)

I can understand why people don't like Kerry, I mean, he was a crock of shit. But I honestly can not see why people like Bush.

SteveJonesTheRealBones (November 4, 2004)

he's not kerry. -jones the bones -stevejones8770@yahoo.com

CrookedSuperhero (November 4, 2004)

Idiot.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Well said...well said.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

If you're afraid of terrorists...you're an ignorant jackass. People in NYC voted for Kerry!! They aren't afraid. If you get killed by a terrorist I'll give your Mom my 1957 Chevy Bel Air.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Not only will I answer your questions, but I will do it without doing any Bush-Bashing. ------------------------------------------------------------ Why would you vote against Bush when the terrorists are rooting for Kerry? Actually that’s false. Most terrorist organizations that commented said it didn’t matter to them. Iran, part of the "axis of evil" said they wanted Bush to be re-elected. Why would you want a commander-in-chief who thinks we should pass a global test before defending ourselves against our enemies? This is the most misunderstood quote of the election and granted Kerry did nothing to fix it. Agree with him or not Kerry was saying that our actions abroad affect the whole world. Because of this we cannot jump into action without understanding all the consequences. The United States did not become the most powerful nation in the World on its own. We did it by

show rest of commentNot only will I answer your questions, but I will do it without doing any Bush-Bashing. ------------------------------------------------------------ Why would you vote against Bush when the terrorists are rooting for Kerry? Actually that’s false. Most terrorist organizations that commented said it didn’t matter to them. Iran, part of the "axis of evil" said they wanted Bush to be re-elected. Why would you want a commander-in-chief who thinks we should pass a global test before defending ourselves against our enemies? This is the most misunderstood quote of the election and granted Kerry did nothing to fix it. Agree with him or not Kerry was saying that our actions abroad affect the whole world. Because of this we cannot jump into action without understanding all the consequences. The United States did not become the most powerful nation in the World on its own. We did it by having the strength and courage to lead. Attacking Afghanistan the way we did was a perfectly justifiable retaliatory act. But our invasion of Iraq crossed a line with a lot of countries. Now I am not saying we should beg for their permission but without plenty of allies, being the strongest nation in the world doesn’t count for much. Why do you want a president who would raise your taxes if he won? Because it is necessary. Taxes pay for almost every public place and program we have. Without them we have no roads, no police, no public schools, no student loans, none of it. Hell I like the extra $250 or whatever in my pocket too but we have taxes to pay our government's bills and our biggest bill right now is our deficit. If you don’t pay back your debts when you have the chance, people are not going to lend you more money when you really need it. Why do you think Kerry would have been strong on terror when his senate record shows he voted against all of the major defense and intelligence bills? Because the man has combat experience. He has done it before and because of this he has an understanding of not only what needs to be done but how to do it. Soldiers who have killed in the line of duty understand more about the value of life in wartime than the rest of us could ever understand. The defense bills in question I assume are those relating to funding the war in Iraq. He said plainly and simply that he did so because he no longer believed we should be there. This so-called "flip-flopping", in my opinion is one of Kerry’s better traits. I think everyone changes their mind on occasion when presented with new information. It would be ignorant to stay the course once you have seen facts that alter your opinion. In regards to the intelligence bills many of them refer to the consolidation of our intelligence divisions. Have you ever wondered why we have so many agencies that perform fairly similar tasks? It was created this way by design. The People working in the intelligence field hold very valuable information. This gives them an immense amount of power. The FBI, CIA, and NSA spend part of their time keeping tabs on each other. This prevents any one agency from doing something out of line. If the power was condensed into fewer agencies, then less people would control a larger piece of the pie. Personally I don’t really Like John Kerry all that much. But in the end we really only have two choices and I think he was the better of the two. Kerry ran a cowardly campaign and that is why he lost. He was well aware of the “anyone but Bush” vote and he was intentionally non-committal during much of the campaign because he didn’t want to loose those votes. Because of this folly he did not convince any of the undecided voters. Had Kerry expressed his position on anything, things might have been different. Then again maybe not. I am looking forward to the day when there is a candidate that I actually like instead of the guy who I this is less full crap. -Kahlin Please feel free to respond via e-mail. kwshwag@hotmail.com

Kenjamin (November 5, 2004)

Yea, people don't give enough props to George Bush Sr. for the first world war. He saw our oil-exhaustive way of life in danger and created a real coalition of allies and accomplished something. Why can't Jr. see that we need the help and approval of other nations to accomplish our goals?

Someone (November 5, 2004)

First of all, I applaud you for answering my questions in an intelligent manner instead of writing a profane one-sentence response like a lot of the other 15-year-olds do on this board. I am glad we can have some political debate without resorting to irrational name-calling or excessive Bush or Kerry bashing. Secondly, here are my responses to your answers. "Why would you vote against Bush when the terrorists are rooting for Kerry? Actually that’s false. Most terrorist organizations that commented said it didn’t matter to them. Iran, part of the "axis of evil" said they wanted Bush to be re-elected." Part of Bin Laden's message that came out prior to the election was that any "Red states" (or states that vote for Bush) would be punished and it was clear that he was trying to sway the election in Kerry's favor by scaring people out of voting for Bush. "Why would you want

show rest of commentFirst of all, I applaud you for answering my questions in an intelligent manner instead of writing a profane one-sentence response like a lot of the other 15-year-olds do on this board. I am glad we can have some political debate without resorting to irrational name-calling or excessive Bush or Kerry bashing. Secondly, here are my responses to your answers. "Why would you vote against Bush when the terrorists are rooting for Kerry? Actually that’s false. Most terrorist organizations that commented said it didn’t matter to them. Iran, part of the "axis of evil" said they wanted Bush to be re-elected." Part of Bin Laden's message that came out prior to the election was that any "Red states" (or states that vote for Bush) would be punished and it was clear that he was trying to sway the election in Kerry's favor by scaring people out of voting for Bush. "Why would you want a commander-in-chief who thinks we should pass a global test before defending ourselves against our enemies? This is the most misunderstood quote of the election and granted Kerry did nothing to fix it. Agree with him or not Kerry was saying that our actions abroad affect the whole world. Because of this we cannot jump into action without understanding all the consequences. The United States did not become the most powerful nation in the World on its own. We did it by having the strength and courage to lead. Attacking Afghanistan the way we did was a perfectly justifiable retaliatory act. But our invasion of Iraq crossed a line with a lot of countries. Now I am not saying we should beg for their permission but without plenty of allies, being the strongest nation in the world doesn’t count for much." Isn't the world better off for Saddam not being in power? If Kerry or Dean had been president, Saddam will still be in power, he would still have weapons of mass destruction (yes he did have them), he would be supporting other terrorists, he would still be terrorizing the neighboring countries, and he would still be killing and raping his own people. Kerry talked about getting our other allies to assist us in Iraq but many of these countries whose help he was trying to solicit such as France said they still would not send troops or help even if Kerry was president. For 12 YEARS following the gulf war, the UN, Clinton and Bush tried to deal with Saddam diplomatically and he continued to defy every ineffectual resolution they passed. The consequences of defying each of these resolutions was use of force and when it was clear after 12 YEARS of defiance that he was not going to cooperate, Bush invaded Iraq and finally took him out of power. After 12 years our so-called "allies" never followed through on the promised consequences of these resolutions so Bush acted and took Saddam out of power. I don't see how Bush crossed the line by invading Iraq when Saddam continually refused to cooperate with us. Passing resolutions don't mean very much if you don't follow through on their consequences. "...t without plenty of allies, being the strongest nation in the world doesn’t count for much."? Yes it does. Saddam is out of power isn't he? "Why do you want a president who would raise your taxes if he won? Because it is necessary. Taxes pay for almost every public place and program we have. Without them we have no roads, no police, no public schools, no student loans, none of it. Hell I like the extra $250 or whatever in my pocket too but we have taxes to pay our government's bills and our biggest bill right now is our deficit. If you don’t pay back your debts when you have the chance, people are not going to lend you more money when you really need it." Yes some taxes are necessary, but with the $220 trillion dollars Kerry was proposing in new programs, a huge chunk of your paycheck would go back into the government instead of your bank account. It's your money, you worked for it, you earned it. Why should the goverment take your money that you earned and put into programs that deem are necessary for the good of the people? The more money you have, the more you'll put back in the economy and the stronger the economy will be for it. "Why do you think Kerry would have been strong on terror when his senate record shows he voted against all of the major defense and intelligence bills? Because the man has combat experience. He has done it before and because of this he has an understanding of not only what needs to be done but how to do it. Soldiers who have killed in the line of duty understand more about the value of life in wartime than the rest of us could ever understand. The defense bills in question I assume are those relating to funding the war in Iraq. He said plainly and simply that he did so because he no longer believed we should be there. This so-called "flip-flopping", in my opinion is one of Kerry’s better traits. I think everyone changes their mind on occasion when presented with new information. It would be ignorant to stay the course once you have seen facts that alter your opinion. In regards to the intelligence bills many of them refer to the consolidation of our intelligence divisions. Have you ever wondered why we have so many agencies that perform fairly similar tasks? It was created this way by design. The People working in the intelligence field hold very valuable information. This gives them an immense amount of power. The FBI, CIA, and NSA spend part of their time keeping tabs on each other. This prevents any one agency from doing something out of line. If the power was condensed into fewer agencies, then less people would control a larger piece of the pie." While I respect Kerry's service, his 4 month tour of duty in Vietnam does not show he is capable of being a strong commander-in-chief. The only thing that you can really judge Kerry on is his voting record which shows he has gone back and forth on these issues. Personally, I would prefer someone who consistent on their position and don't change their mind based on the latest polls or pressure from their peers. While you may not agree with Bush's actions, at least he always been consistent on his positions and made unpopular decisions because he knew it was the right thing to do. Kerry's voting record does not show that he possesses that strength of character. I just don't see how you can justify Kerry voting for use of force and then refusing to vote to fund it. Basically he voted to put troops in harm's way but he refused to fund them so they would have all the necessary means to get the job done. Either way, I'm sure we'll just have to agree to disagree but I enjoy debating with you never the less.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

https://webspace.utexas.edu/dak328/ripamerica.jpg

Big_Guy (November 4, 2004)

all I can say is "Four more years of war is peace, ignorance is strength and slavery's freedom"

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BizzleBrizzle (November 4, 2004)

wrong order... War is Peace Freedom is Slavery Ignorance Is Strength

Big_Guy (November 4, 2004)

I'm talking about the Propagandhi song. I'm almost 100% sure its the right order off the top of my head

Someone (November 4, 2004)

A sad day for America, a country we once all knew It truly has become a sad time for America when it faces representation from a person who clearly lacks the intellect and benevolence that our great country once looked for in its leader. Once again, the country has been persuaded by the neo conservatives (in their post cold war agenda for military dominance) and their puppet George Bush that we are not safe without him. What confuses me are the facts that exist about our incumbent and his performance to date. George Bush and the majority of his policies clearly represent and benefit a small percentage of Americans and their families. While some may argue that this is simply not true, how can we explain the clear reluctance for economic responsibility, the environment, foreign acceptance, world democracy and the idealism that founded our government (patriot act)? We shouldn’t forget

show rest of commentA sad day for America, a country we once all knew It truly has become a sad time for America when it faces representation from a person who clearly lacks the intellect and benevolence that our great country once looked for in its leader. Once again, the country has been persuaded by the neo conservatives (in their post cold war agenda for military dominance) and their puppet George Bush that we are not safe without him. What confuses me are the facts that exist about our incumbent and his performance to date. George Bush and the majority of his policies clearly represent and benefit a small percentage of Americans and their families. While some may argue that this is simply not true, how can we explain the clear reluctance for economic responsibility, the environment, foreign acceptance, world democracy and the idealism that founded our government (patriot act)? We shouldn’t forget the total disregard for our environment that George Bush, Inc. has represented by his desire to drill for oil within the beautiful state of Alaska as opposed to reducing our dependency on oil altogether. This is clearly the highlight of our current mission in Iraq (of course using the government’s employment of Darth Cheney’s former Halliburton; coincidence?). Halliburton, along with other foreign nations, also invested into Iraq to help boost its oil production so that it could trade more oil during the oil for food program. In 1997 Iraq’s production was 4 billion dollars and with Halliburton’s help increases it to 18 billion dollars by 2000, the year that George Bush, Inc. took office. While this program did raise the nutritional level in the deprived nation of Iraq, it also allowed more money into the hands of Saddam Hussein. Also, as Darth Cheney was defense secretary during the first gulf war, the American offensive destroyed the Persian Gulf Terminal allowing Halliburton to further become in demand for parts to rebuild the Iraqi oil industry. Many have said that Saddam Hussein has become one of the greatest threats to oil production within the Middle East, so how can any of us say that the invasion of Iraq wasn’t directly related to its oil supplies, especially when the argument that we invaded Iraq in order to stop him from using the WMD that he has, yet we do near to nothing in North Korea which is lead by a dictator as evil as Saddam and also is known to have nuclear weapons. It seems as though we are taking steps backwards instead of forward, toward the future and for the world that I want my children to grow up in. The disregard for our security, such as the complete failure of this administration to secure such things as our shipping ports and our shipped cargo via commercial and passenger airplanes, remains another area uncared for by the Bush administration. What many people probably don’t know is that only 5 percent of our shipped containers into this nation from foreign origins are screened leaving this a major gap for possible terrorist or ill-willed attacks. Now, I would be one of the last people swayed by George Bush, Inc. to believe that we are all going to suffer an impending doom unless he is president. However, how can we refute that with all the attention that has been placed on national security, that we are actually doing everything we can to close the gaps of uncertainty that exist in our security? The money that is spent to secure our shipping docks and channels per year is the equivalent of money spent in just 3 days in Iraq. Would that not lead us to question where that 87 billion dollars should have been spent to better secure our nation? Also, shouldn’t it be a priority to secure our cargo within passenger planes? It just doesn’t add up as an overall comprehensive plan to secure our nation after the American public has been persuaded to think that we cannot coincide with safety without the neo conservative plight of military dominance and a unilateral foreign policy towards the promotion of democracy that simply does not represent the same democratic philosophy with which we have founded this nation. This is not to say that George Bush, Inc. has not taken steps to further secure our nation, because his administration has, however only for a fraction of the problem. It’s like locking your back door at night and leaving the front door wide open. I find it impossible to not believe that if the administration had spent as much time on working towards all the security problems that America still has instead of spending their time convincing the American public that they were doing everything they can, that America would be a more secure nation then it is now. Getting back to the economy, I simply have to state that George Bush, Inc. has promoted shipping jobs across seas and unemployed Americans. His unemployment rate remains high and his economic philosophy of “Trickle down economics” simply has proven not to work. Does anyone reading this email really think that sending you and me a check for 300 dollars will simply stimulate an economy when jobs are being lost? While that may appear all fine and dandy to the person that can now go by groceries and high costing prescription drugs for two weeks, we can’t really expect that to help the American people in a long term perspective. This country needs to create jobs, promote business to stay within the borders of the United States, give incentives to business to sell American products and promote research and development in all relevant industries. The argument may be made that giving business more of their tax money back and other such laissez faire idealisms (or free trade) will promote everything stated in the former, but we all have come to terms with the fact that corporations are more self serving than ever before in recent American history (i.e. Enron, WorldCom, etc) thinking of themselves often more than their own employees. I will never profess to be an economic expert; however, the obvious facts that exist today speak for themselves. These economics do not serve the overall majority or America in regards to ensuring social values that become jeopardized when modern corporations act without government regulation. George Bush, Inc. probably won the election because of the swing of voters to vote for whom they feel to be the more moral of the two partisan candidates. This also leads to wonder how the majority of America has decided this to be the case. Let me give you my assumed logic behind this falsity among the majority of voters because it is now clear more than ever that the president is unable to separate his religion and his public servitude as a matter of fact. While many consider this a necessity in their every day lives (mid to right wing Christians), we cannot forget that this country was founded on our individual right to freedom of religion and the government’s necessity to govern its people without the influence of Religion (i.e. mixing church and state). In today’s day in which there is an ever increasingly diverse population within our borders, it should with obvious intent be lead by someone who understands the reasoning behind our constitutional right to be represented by someone whom can separate their beliefs and those in which that person governs. This is the moral obligation of every public servant in the United States. After giving that overly broad logic on moral representation the more specific ones still shouldn’t represent a progressive nation such as ours. He has clearly opposed stem cell research which has the potential to be the next great medical breakthrough in our time and save lives. He openly opposes gay marriage, which is a conservative point of view that simply leads me to believe that it was exploited as much as it was in order to boost support for the moral conservatives. My question is “what does it matter”, if you’re not gay then don’t marry someone of your own sex. The situation doesn’t affect anyone but the couple getting married. If on the other hand you have a problem with gay marriage yet support it, don’t go to the wedding. I could even lean towards not allowing gay marriage, it is a bit radical in our society, but why can’t we allow civil unions, allow the health benefits of being a “legal” couple and get on with more important things like our children’s education. The moral majority clearly favors George Bush, Inc. because of his candor in the issues that conservatives feel need to be applied to all citizenship despite different views and opinions that those people have via constitutional rights. It is my belief and also that of the founding fathers that the people’s rights shouldn’t coincide with that of any one man or government. In a shorter paragraph, why don’t you email me back to tell me what you think of the patriot act, cleverly named despite its clear power to be un-American. It simply is another tool that eliminates certain checks and balances the 3 branches of our government uses to preserve our rights under the constitution. It also represents the desire of our neo conservatives to further infringe upon the American people their idealism. We must ask ourselves why we would pass a law that begins to give up certain fundamental American rights. For those who don’t understand what the patriot act is, simply look it up on www.aclu.org. It could be summarized as a law which allows the executive branch of the government (i.e. FBI, CIA, General Law enforcement) the right to act without warrant of the Judiciary branch that once had the complete ability to provide checks and balances against its other branches of governing influence. Clearly unconstitutional and an infringement upon our rights as citizens of this great country when deciding used by an unchecked branch of government. Is there a more deeply divided subject in our immediate time than Iraq within our nation? It was clear that we with the United Nations had not exhausted our diplomatic options in regards to invading Iraq, which point was made obvious of that when this administration was unable to create a true multilateral armed force from the major nations of the world. This administration acted outside the democratic rules of the United Nations, both defeating its purpose of existence and making its power of democracy irrelevant. We shouldn’t forget that the United Nations was founded after WW II by President Truman, Joseph Stalin & Winston Churchill and a sum of 50 nations in order to avoid the evils of major international wars and to help provide the world with democracy. This United Nations was a reformed League of Nation that existed in the Post WW I era modeled after the ideas of Immanuel Kant. Yet despite all the wisdom of some of the most influential leaders of the 20th century, the United States acted without the approval of the United Nations. Since that day thousands of lives have been lost in an attempt to promote the post cold war conservatism idealism of American world dominancy. It is that dominancy that is considered to be the true idea of security among some that chose to abuse the great power of this nation. Thus, making this an immoral and undemocratic war has coincidently benefited many companied close to the Bush family and administration. With this fact in mind, why do we consider George W. Bush (who dodged a Vietnam draft with his father’s influence to place him in the Texas National Guard) a more moral candidate than that of John Kerry who fought in Vietnam and publicly spoke out against the inhuman acts that he witnessed in a war that he didn’t believe in? Now some may say that perhaps I am just being a sore loser, someone who is discontented with the outcome of this presidential election, and they would be correct in saying or thinking just that. However, just as I am sure that I am a clear loser, I am just as sure that so is the rest of America that only wants what is good for their moral self, their children and their neighbors inside and out of our borders. God Bless America, God Bless our troops and may they all find their way home with the world having a better sense of what Democracy should be and the necessity of Peace. Joel Kraft

Someone (November 4, 2004)

To me, the U.S. is like the richest guy in the neighborhood that almost everybody loves to hate. He has the biggest house, he drives the nicest car, and people are envious of that, even though he worked extremely hard to get where he is. He is not arrogant or disingenuous and is in fact the most charitable member of the community. He gives freely to neighbors in need and has often acted as a peacemaker to members of his community. He is the one person in the neighborhood that can be called and depended upon to assist neighbors in crisis. He has used much of his own personal resources, giving or loaning money and property; even amassing a great deal of debt to do so. All of that is not enough. Many neighbors despise him for his wealth. They want what he has, but are unwilling to put forth the effort to earn it themselves. They covet what they cannot have and wish Ameri

show rest of commentTo me, the U.S. is like the richest guy in the neighborhood that almost everybody loves to hate. He has the biggest house, he drives the nicest car, and people are envious of that, even though he worked extremely hard to get where he is. He is not arrogant or disingenuous and is in fact the most charitable member of the community. He gives freely to neighbors in need and has often acted as a peacemaker to members of his community. He is the one person in the neighborhood that can be called and depended upon to assist neighbors in crisis. He has used much of his own personal resources, giving or loaning money and property; even amassing a great deal of debt to do so. All of that is not enough. Many neighbors despise him for his wealth. They want what he has, but are unwilling to put forth the effort to earn it themselves. They covet what they cannot have and wish America would open his doors so that they could take what they believe to rightfully be theirs. They convince themselves that somehow, America owes them for having to put up with the parading of all his wealth. They have convinced themselves that America is not a compassionate neighbor, but a bully, because he hasn’t fixed their personal problems. They demand that America spend more of his personal resources, more of his personal time helping them, while at the same time despising his entry into their lives and asking themselves why American can’t just mind his own business, despising him for being there, but hating him even more if he arrives later than expected. They praise America for offering loans, and despise him for asking for repayment. They believe all should be equal, but define that as taking from others to enrich themselves. America is a good neighbor in a bad neighborhood. If his neighbors didn’t spend so much time coveting, and used the time to work harder for themselves, instead of planning how to take advantage of America, maybe their situation would improve. Many other neighbors possess much more personal capital than America, and if they organized their house correctly would be much wealthier than American could imagine. Instead they focus on their hatred of America, and their hatred of their other neighbors. Instead of spending their time working and bettering themselves, they spend their time scheming against America, and against their other neighbors that they would try to rob or kill, so that it might somehow increase their personal wealth. Maybe if some of these socialist countries got off of their collective rear-ends and organized an economy where they didn’t have 12-15% unemployment: maybe if these countries didn’t try to prop up nationally controlled industries that just suck their wealth down the toilet; maybe if they wake up and acknowledged that their arrogances has caused them to unfailingly support a failed economic system; maybe if they fixed all these things themselves instead of coveting what America has: Maybe, just maybe they will realize America is not to blame for their personal problems. -Charles Brown

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

I'm from Canada and i'm pretty sure most Canadians would agree that Canada is a much BETTER place to live in than America, but that doesn't stop many of us from hating the way this Bush administration does things. And I could give a shit about Americas "Wealth" because I have pretty much everything I need right here. So, I really don't think it's applicable, not where i'm from anyways. To me, this just sounds like an excuse to deny the fact that Americans have pretty much been living a lie for last 4 years...lie after lie after lie. But I guess everyone has a different perspective depending on where they're from, what they've seen, heard and lived.

CrookedSuperhero (November 4, 2004)

I'm from the UK and it's a much better place to live than America. As is most of Europe.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I'm glad you like living where you do. Get involved in politics in your country and leave American politics to the Americans. (I'm not accusing you personally of involving yourself, but some people think that Europe should have a say in who is president of America. If you don't live in Iraq or Afghanistan America's president won't directly affect you.)

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Have you ever lived in America?

Someone (November 5, 2004)

fuck you. mind your own business. leave american politics to americans. a personal anecdote : i'm from buffalo. one time i went to a show in toronto and there were kids wearing "not my president" t-shirts. of course bush is YOUR president you asshole. you live in canada. you got some gay-ass prime minister or something.

Someone (November 5, 2004)

Actually, that you would be "isn't" you dirty inbred bigot.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I would hate the rich guy in the hood becuase if he was America, he would have got rich off of exploiting and bullying all the other houses in the neighborhood.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Best comment I've read all day. I think we should listen to the rest of the world and leave them alone... pull our troops out of Europe, stop giving money to Africa, let the Middle East kill each other. It would take less than a week for Europe to come whining to our door saying how we're not fulfilling our duties to the world (i.e. taking care of the world while they spend money like a rich kid with a crack problem). Communist propaganda has brainwashed people to the extent that they believe rich people cannot have earned their money honestly, and regardless of how the rich earned their money, the poor deserve some of it because they were obviously exploited (because of course they weren't stupid, lazy or undeserving).

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Osama is a wealthy boy. He hates 'America' because of its foreign policy and all associated double standards and hypocracies. And for the same reasons do others hate 'Amerca'. My distaste for 'America' certainly isnt derived from jealousy of wealth, but from what it does and how it relates with the peoples of other countries. Your country is arrogant in a most despicable way. You would do yourself a favour to explore other explanations for the deep hatred of the US other than a simple jealousy of wealth.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

i saw people wearing pro-bush shirts who got asked to turn their shirts inside out also. its no big deal, dont get your panties in a twist because of it.

earth23 (November 4, 2004)

Contrary to Fat Mike's view of youth turnout, the number of 18-29 year-olds that voted was pretty low (equal to the amount that voted in 2000). Check out this quote which you can find at The Daily Wildcat. Although the national voter turnout in Tuesday's presidential election was the highest it has been since 1968, the heavily courted 18- to 24-year-old demographic remained virtually the same, despite the push to get them to the polls. According to The Associated Press, an estimated 9 percent of voters fell within the 18 to 24 range, while the 18 to 29 age bracket accounted for 17 percent of overall voters, figures that parallel the 2000 election.

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

You want to know why young people didnt vote? Because it might have interfered with their favorite MTV or Fuse program, or possibly cause them to miss an important appointment. When you try to champion a self centered agenda and expect those same people to show up an vote, what do you expect?

Someone (November 4, 2004)

More people from all age groups voted, so the percent of young people in the voter makeup stayed the same, but more of them voted. Think about the implications of the statistic you're quoting next time, eh?

earth23 (November 4, 2004)

Compared with the huge push to get younger people to vote as opposed to other years I think the results are a tad disappointing.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Proof that the Christians are crazy: http://www.local6.com/news/3887764/detail.html

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SteveJonesTheRealBones (November 4, 2004)

Proof that canadians are crazy: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=573&nci d=757&e=3&u=/nm/20041104/od_nm/odd_jet_dc - jones the bones - stevejones8770@yahoo.com

Someone (November 4, 2004)

your annoying...i would love to kick your ass...on behalf on canada and the united states

SteveJonesTheRealBones (November 4, 2004)

you probably want to fight me cause you cant argue with me. i would win the fight too. - jones the bones

Someone (November 4, 2004)

The day is coming for the anti-Christian crusade. White hoods, rope, and torches. Funny how history repeats itself.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

There you go again, lumping all Christians together as crazy because of one nut-ball. That's called stereotyping, something you Libs are supposed to be against. Did I just stereotype?

TheFeesh (November 4, 2004)

Alot of you guys are morons. You really should have no involvement in the punk scene. Go back to listening to Michael Graves spew verbal masturbation and leave us real punkers alone. Any punk rocker in their right mind wouldn't disagree completely* with Fat Mike and his wonderful efforts. He tried. He got shitloads of kids to register and vote. That's great if I do fucking say so. Kerry might suck too, but it's a step (even if so small) in a better direction. The phrase "Conservative punk" will always be an oxymoron. The people that call themselves conservative punks are laughable. I, and I'm sure many other people will continue fighting these douchebags for as long as possible.

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

You are also the same person who most likely believes that anything "Christian" and "Music" can't coexist. To be tolerant, it must go both ways otherwise it spells hypocrisy. What next? Fire bombings on Christian Households and gang fights on Christian kids at schoool? Would that make it all better on this country? If anyone says "Yes" then I am truly scared to live in the new millenium.

Not-To-Regret (November 4, 2004)

You better be scared. Because you'll soon find out what it's like to live in the middle east. Religious wars are coming and you christians are fucked because you're the regressive thinkers.

Someone (November 5, 2004)

you certainly are melodramatic..

Someone (November 4, 2004)

the original "punkers" like joey ramone, richard hell, john lydon, g.g. allin, and countless others who had a real vision and not so subdued that they would vote for the lesser of two evils, i guarantee wouldn't vote for john kerry if they could. youre a disgrace. stand up for what you believe than just for what you don't believe in.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

i'm so fucking tired of people questioning my "cred" and calling me a "poser" get a fucking clue. you don't know what i like, you don't what i listen to, you don't know what i play so please, shut up. and i'll give you a hint, its not simple plan as you probably were going to say.

Someone (November 5, 2004)

how the fuck can you have cred? you're an anonymous poster (like myself).. so you are a poser..

Someone (November 4, 2004)

G.G. Allin ate shit on stage. Are you telling me that I should look to him for how to vote????

Someone (November 4, 2004)

no i think he was just putting down the "you have to be a dem to be a punk" talk. most people are smart enough to not have to look to ANYONE but themselves to vote. take note punkvoter fans.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I am not a "punk" or a "conservative punk". I am an independent with right-wing beliefs who enjoys listening to punk rock. I wasn't aware that you had to label yourself as a "punk" (along with the rest of the sheep) in order to listen to punk or post messages on this board. I also wasn't aware that you had to be a liberal in order to listen to punk, play in a punk bank, or contribute to the punk scene. By your dim-witted, narrow-minded rationale then we'd have to discount Johnny Ramone, Johnny Gestapo or Lee Ving's contributions to the punk scene.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

amen.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

amen, again - The Merry Prankster

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Go cry about it conservative dicks, this is a liberal scene and always has been so quit crying when you take guff for having dipshit belifes

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Gee, that was an intelligent response.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Can I get an amen?

DestroyingTheScene (November 4, 2004)

And don't forget about Ian Stuart! That brings the tally to 4. Wow, you've got one up on Propagandhi now! Only a couple thousand more bands to go!

Someone (November 4, 2004)

ALlow me to attempt to understand your use of the phrase "involvement in the punk scene"; spewing rhetoric from your armchair about how you have to follow certain rules to be punk, while at the same time claiming to be open-minded and tolerant.

some1 (November 4, 2004)

conservatives are politically neither open-minded nor tolerant Fear was a great band was Lee Ving is/was a huge asshole.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

what the hell? way to miss my fucking point.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Anyone who calls themself a punk is a fucking moron. Even more so when said person claims that other people aren't punk because of they are different. You're statements are more oxymoronic than the term "conservative punk".

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Although i am distressed by the outcome of this whole thing, it's pretty funny to see this useless organization fall on its face.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I was pretty pissed when I first found out the results, but now not so much. Since I live in New York I just feel like there's no way our state is going to go along with a gay marriage ban or making abortion illegal. Whether or not those assholes in the middle of America like it, NYC and San Francisco and other liberal cities are gonna stay the way they are, with immigrants, gays and all other kinds of people living the way they want. Sure we lost the election but they're the weaker ones because they're motivated by fear.

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

Abortion is Murder, therefore it shouldn't be legal. No one said that protesting the act meant killing the partakers or causing physical harm. We all have a right to hold beliefs and feeling about a subject, that's part of freedom in this country. The people who say "Abortion is Wrong" and then inflict injury upon doctors and those in the act are just as wrong. A peaceful protest is still welcome in this country am I right? Don't have sex if you can't except the responsibilities for the outcome.

CrankWillDestroy (November 4, 2004)

What about the 12 yr old girl who was raped or incest victims? After all, men should not decide what is utlimately a woman's choice. Bad abortion? fine. It won't stop abortion in the least bit.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I agree. Outlawing abortion won't stop people from doing it. People are people. They'll just find ways to do it illegally. It's better to leave the option open...

punkpirate (November 4, 2004)

Thats partly true, but in Oregon where Kerry won by 72%, we unfortunatly voted pass the ban on gay marriage. But we still have death with dignaty and medical pot.

swingline (November 4, 2004)

I'm a Libertarian and I nominate this guy http://media.ebaumsworld.com/mariopiano.wmv for the 08 election.

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

performing Nintendo themes is so yesterday...

swingline (November 4, 2004)

how can you be so cold hearted? he has a blindfold on ... hasn't the scandal at Abu Ghraib taught us anything?!

Someone (November 4, 2004)

That's sweet, I gotta friend who can sort of do that on his keyboard

Someone (November 4, 2004)

haha. im a libertarian too...i think badnarik definitely has some competition brewing.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

What are the themes he plays from 4 minutes on?

Someone (November 4, 2004)

250th

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Lets face facts here people that like Nascar and Pabst Beer won this election, but they are the ones the get drafted first so it's all good...Karma is the motherfucker. http://consoles.prizecube.com/?ref=3291

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punkpirate (November 4, 2004)

wait, Nascar suck hard, but Pabst is the brewed by God himself. Pabst is my beer and I voted for Kerry.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

If everyone hates Bush so much, how is it that he was re-elected?

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

in this case "everyone" is: people who either are too young to vote or are too punk to do so. anarchy man!!!!

Someone (November 4, 2004)

yeah dude, anarchy would be like totally cool wouldnt it? you could raise your kids in an anarchist state couldnt you? you hate the NRA but you would need them in an "Anarchy". Anarchy is the term a self centered person would hold closest to their heart.

SteveJonesTheRealBones (November 4, 2004)

wow. you have no clue. you responded to that guy as if he was being serious with the anarchy comment - jones the bones - stevejones8770@yahoo.com

Someone (November 4, 2004)

some people are just idiots.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Exactly. In certain opinions it would tell you that the majority voting for Bush are just uneducated redneck intolerant lunatics who obviously have no place in this great land. I believe we can agree to disagree correct? Or is that an outdated term? I am not "uneducated" nor a "Redneck" because I chose to vote for Bush. In fact I live in California, one of the most diverse and open minded states in the country. I just dont agree with what most Democrats stand on. I am allowed to have those views though as an American just the same as you who feel the opposite.

CrankWillDestroy (November 4, 2004)

Because over half of America is uneducated and ruled by fear.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I would bet my life that the educational status of Bush supporters is higher than that of Kerry Supporters.

CrankWillDestroy (November 4, 2004)

If you wanted to keep your life, theoretically, you would be smart not to make such a bet.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

In 2008, this nation will need a leader that will bring all of us together and teach us how to love and respect one another. That's why i'm supporting Pootie Tang for President

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

Give 2004 and Bush a chance.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Wa dah tah my nene, wa dah tah

Someone (November 4, 2004)

"So here -- with a grateful heart, I leave this campaign with a prayer that has even greater meaning to me now that I've come to know our vast country so much better and that prayer is very simple: God bless America. Sincerely, John F. Kerry" look at this religious nut

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

I think he's thinking like the rest of us..."GOD HELP US ALL!!!" If he's religious...then so is Brendan Kelly...www.thelawrencearms.net

Not-To-Regret (November 4, 2004)

Bush was re-elected because the voters ignored the real issues and instead focused on "moral issues" (aka the bible). They voted for Bush because they cared more about themselves and protecting their homophobic, pro-life agenda. Once again the needs of the few have outweighed the needs of the many.

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

funny that you say needs of the few, even though it was needs of the majority apparently since bush got the majority of the vote. also, the war on iraq and economy probably weighed more than homophobia and abortion, which is why bush won

Not-To-Regret (November 4, 2004)

Sounds like a CNN opinion. Not YOUR opinion.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

and how can you know what wouldnt sound like my opinion?

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Fuck the South and Fuck the Midwest (especially Utah - what a bunch of weirdos) The West Coast should separate and become it's only country, similar to Chile or unite with British Columbia in Canada and New England and the North East should unite with Canada as well Who the hell needs those backwards thinking Conservative bigots anyways? They can claim America and destroy themselves Urban areas in the South and Midwest that are Left-wing cities would be fucked though (New Orleans, Miami, Atlanta, St. Louis, etc) I don't know what we'd do to ensure these cities don't get brought down with the Rednecks

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

You guys can have Detroit

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I thought I'd share with you what the folks at the G7 Welcoming Committee had to say about this election result: "Oh America, what does the world think of you now? Somehow, if it you can believe it's possible - EVEN LESS THAN BEFORE. For all the talk of the illegitimacy of Bush's last term in office, that motherfucker took the ball and ran with it, conducting the U.S. administration like a crazed apocalyptic born-again imperialist on coke (er, LIKE one?), and what happened? 59,056,036 votes, that's what happened. Never mind the 55,464,322 votes for the OTHER war-mongering, corporate-backed imperialist. His election would have been of little assurance to those who live elsewhere on the planet anyway - you know, the MAJORITY of the Earth's inhabitants .. ...Will someone please eradicate our species already?"

thirtyseconds (November 4, 2004)

Well I'm gonna post my opinion here, seeing as everyone else is doing it. My attitude has been and always will be FUCK THE GOVERNMENT. Doesn't matter who it is, red or blue, the person at the top will never look after the interests of the likes of you and me. Sure, one candidate may seem closer to your ideals than another, but at the end of the day we are being, and always will be, screwed royally over. Therefore it's up to an individual to stick to their beliefs, and live their life however the fuck they choose, regardless of what others may think. I thought thats what punk was about. Punkvoter tried really hard for what they believed in, fair enough, but say if Kerry had gotten in- how would have YOUR life changed at all? I don't think it would have. The economy may change regardless of who's in office, taxes will always go up, wars will always be fought. I can't t

show rest of commentWell I'm gonna post my opinion here, seeing as everyone else is doing it. My attitude has been and always will be FUCK THE GOVERNMENT. Doesn't matter who it is, red or blue, the person at the top will never look after the interests of the likes of you and me. Sure, one candidate may seem closer to your ideals than another, but at the end of the day we are being, and always will be, screwed royally over. Therefore it's up to an individual to stick to their beliefs, and live their life however the fuck they choose, regardless of what others may think. I thought thats what punk was about. Punkvoter tried really hard for what they believed in, fair enough, but say if Kerry had gotten in- how would have YOUR life changed at all? I don't think it would have. The economy may change regardless of who's in office, taxes will always go up, wars will always be fought. I can't think of any government ever without blood on their hands and/or genuinely tried their best to insure prosperity for all. There's nothing wrong with a bit of debate etc, but after all the efforts by punkvoter and the like, nothing has changed, Kerry is just another greedy and corrupt face. He's no different. If the majority of people in the world gave a shit, governments would not be free to do basically whatever the fuck they want- the only restricting factor is they want your votes. The mainstream will always be too fucking dumb to stop this, shame really but I've accepted it, we have to do the best for ourselves and each other no matter what the circumstances. Personally I think one can do a million times more good by offering a helping hand- moaning about the government doesn't change the world, helping the homeless (for example) can make a world of difference. To quote gandhi, "be the change you would like to see in the world." Criticising does nothing, an individual voice is worth a lot less than you think. I know that doesnt come across very well, but I know what I mean- it's hard to get it down in writing. Just let the music move you...

Someone (November 4, 2004)

What is beyond me is how the majority of people in this country think that Iraq was behind 9/11, that pro choice is wrong, that big business and government is more important that human rights, that being gay is wrong. The list goes on and on. I don't care what god you believe in or what religion you follow, but it does not belong in politics. Our president supports keeping religion in peoples lives even if they don't want it there. Our president is not pro choice, his opinion (and many others) affects what you can do to yourself. Our President is also a corporation. His interests are there and not with the everyday person. Politics and corporation are one in the same. What is good for the goose, is not good for the gander. The Democratic party needs to stop being stagnant and embrace the people. Get some new ideas, run on some new platforms. I believe that I read

show rest of commentWhat is beyond me is how the majority of people in this country think that Iraq was behind 9/11, that pro choice is wrong, that big business and government is more important that human rights, that being gay is wrong. The list goes on and on. I don't care what god you believe in or what religion you follow, but it does not belong in politics. Our president supports keeping religion in peoples lives even if they don't want it there. Our president is not pro choice, his opinion (and many others) affects what you can do to yourself. Our President is also a corporation. His interests are there and not with the everyday person. Politics and corporation are one in the same. What is good for the goose, is not good for the gander. The Democratic party needs to stop being stagnant and embrace the people. Get some new ideas, run on some new platforms. I believe that I read somewhere that 70% of Americans would be willing to take a tax increase to have socialized medicare. That's a start. Take these ideas and run with them. The right has gone so far right, so why won't the left go left? This would open up room for a third party. The human race is not a smart as we think we are. A lot of people believe that their beliefs are better for other people. Keep government to a minimum and keep your laws off my (or anybody else's for that matter) body. We aren't truly free to vote for who we want when we only have 2 choices. This is the problem, in my opinion. We are only as free as we are allowed to think we are. Complacency and apathy will kill this country. If you want to bash someone for encouraging kids to vote, then you are ignorant. If people don't make up their own minds, then they are ignorant too. Ignorance is accepted and applauded in this country. What do you expect in a society based on puritan beliefs? I'm not unhappy that Kerry lost, but I am just unhappy that Bush won.

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

P.S. Give me something other than a rich white male to vote for. How about a woman/minority candidate who actually had to work their way to get where they are.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Voting someone based on their skin color or gender? Isn't that racism/sexism? How about a candidate with good ideas, strong character and knowledge of how to lead no matter his or her gender or skin color, that's someone I'd vote for.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I agree with you. What I meant to say was "or someone who actually had to work to get there".... We just need more options.

jones_the_bones (November 4, 2004)

Oh fucking get over it already. Sour grapes. You know how fucking bad this looks everytime a D doesn't win and they trot out "what ifs" and lawyers to "make it right?" What would happen if everytime the Yankees lost a game they filed a protest with the league. "The fans were too loud" or "the ump missed the call in the third inning" or "that one was a ball!" Why would ANYONE want to support the D's if they keep this shit up? It's over, fucking quit it, move on, next election. How about getting a candidate with balls? How about getting one with personality? How about coming up with some ideas rather than second guessing yourself all over the place? Worry about the candidate and how you can do it right, not on what others are doing to not get things done. lame -jones the bones

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SteveJonesTheRealBones (November 4, 2004)

its all about balls baby - jones the bones - stevejones8770@yahoo.com

caper (November 4, 2004)

You know, it’s not just religiously motivated politics that are to blame for the results of this election. It’s also the fact that there is so little harmony in our resistance. A lot of people seem to take issue with anyone who has the means to be heard (Money) speaking on the behalf of the left. John Kerry was certainly just the lesser of evils in ‘04 but his financial status is the reason for the existence of any campaign to criticize. It’s sad but true but the devout Christians in this country who cannot keep their pious values out of our politics do not seem to hold any issues with the Bush billions. So listen, every one of you criticizing Fat Mike and Punk Voter by questioning their motive is being unfair and unjust. What is about Americans that make them so righteous yet so untrustworthy? Hmmm…maybe it’s the daily dose of fear and pride the current administration and

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

this is exactly the kind of tripe and dribble that people spew who have no idea what they are talking about. its this kinda crap that fat mike spews to get know nothing 18 year olds to hate bush. the left likes to scare you kids with the "religious right" but the truth is, the religious right has less power than all the billionaires and george soros and planned parenthood do.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

You are completely right by this fact. The "Religious Right" causes no harm. All they could possibly do is hug you to death and stand up for something they dont believe in. An action most every other American has the right to do.

AlbertFreddyIngram (November 5, 2004)

"Good job, your disarray is also helping us become the most hated, dumbest, broke country on the planet. Nice effort P.V.! " Ya fuck you Fat MIke

Someone (November 4, 2004)

we need a good ole civil war. dems vs reps.

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

de s would get wasted becasue about 80% of people in the military are republicans

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Yeaaah... democrats are pussies...

Someone (November 4, 2004)

The thing is, most punks who care about this stuff are anarchists (naive, unknowing fake anarchists, not the real thing), so they didn't vote. It was depressing. They'll show up for the trendy scene "Food Not Bombs" but won't even go the extra two inches to get Bush out of office. Kerry was really only a little better... But Jesus, at least he was intelligent. -BSD

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

bush is intelligent

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Intelligent as a dead hooker.

CrankWillDestroy (November 4, 2004)

yea, and his performance at the debates and every other speech he has given just screams 'intelligence'.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Speeches are a terrible measure of intelligence.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

He can't even speak fucking English, let alone communicate with leaders of other countries. -BSD

CrankWillDestroy (November 4, 2004)

Haha. I agree, my brother is dyslexic and is able to speak far more coherently than Bush. Chimpy is mentally challenged or something...

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Here's my ten easy steps plan to beat Bush 1> Move to Groenland and create a new country 2> Find a very cool name for this new land like The Great Penguin Empire 3> Invade by surprise Alaska with really big snowballs 4> Destroy the moral of the US citizens by being very sarcastic on the Internet (South and North Dakota will surrender) 5> Take control of MTV with a special commando and force Hillary Duff to sing a propaganda song named: Nebraska belongs to penguins 6> Call God and ask him to make a public announce that he doesn't exist (this will create a great confusion allowing our army to move through Kansas and Oklahoma) 7> Build a great Trojan penguin at the Texas border and wait the night to invade Bush's ranch from the inside 8> Take Bush alive and threaten him with big pretzel to resign 9> Nominate Hillary Duff President by interim 10> Prepare a brand new election (without Texas, Ohio and Florida)

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swingline (November 4, 2004)

i have just informed the authorities.

punkpirate (November 4, 2004)

Thats the best thing that I've read on this story today. Thanks for the laugh!

Someone (November 4, 2004)

cute

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I think if they put Mike Park in charge of this and made it focus on 3rd party canidates it would be insanly awesome.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I agree with Fat Mike completely. I was dissapointed with Kerry's concession speech. I wish he had stayed strong in his opposition to the Republican Agenda but he decided to take the middle of the road approach with that speech. The key failure for John Kerry I believe was in the town hall debate. Bush said flat out "There will be no draft!" And instead of Kerry driving hard in his opposition to the draft he just said...."Well I don't support a draft.......but.........." and then he went on to give a very intellectual answer on why he feels the Bush admin might have to use a draft and how if elected he would add 40,000 soldiers. The problem here was two fold. He used his smart talk to give an answer that dumb people don't understand. And he didn't say how he would add the 40,000 troops. The way he was going to add troops was by upping the pay for soldiers

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

quit pissing on the working class they run this nation

Someone (November 4, 2004)

One of the favorite quotes I heard in the past couple days, don't know where it came from... "If your not a Democrat when you're young, you have no heart, If you're not a Republican when your old, you have no money"

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Not-To-Regret (November 4, 2004)

That's a great quote. One of my favorites is "I feel sorry for people who don't drink... when they wake up that's the best they'll feel all day".

Someone (November 5, 2004)

It's a dig on a quote from Winston Churchill. The original quote is" "If you're under thirty and not liberal, you have no heart... If you're over thirty and not conservative... you have no brain."

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I hope they ammend the constitution for 2008, can we say Presinator?

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

terminator=anti-christ

Someone (November 4, 2004)

"you tell me that i make no difference, at least im fucking trying, what the fuck have you done?"

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I don't know about the rest of you but Hillary Duff is butt ugly.

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

I would still tap her to say, "Hey, I just tapped Hillary Duff."

Someone (November 5, 2004)

I'd give her a throw.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I find it funny that Fat Mike can call 52% of America ignorant, then go on to claim democrats are right, republicans are wrong bottom line. Both parties have their stregths and weaknesses, and to claim yours is right, period seems like the most ignorant statement you can make.

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Not-To-Regret (November 4, 2004)

You make a decent point, but here's the thing: most people think politics is about opinions... and it has been until this point and time. But now, politics should be about logic, which is what the left-wing represents. Essentially it is the separation of church and state that republicans are trying to prevent. Abortion and Gay-marriage are indeed heavy issues but realistically what harm are gays going to cause by getting married?... and is it not reasonable to abort a being before it develops a conciousness and is born into a poor economy or overpopulated country? If abortion is murder than what is wearing a condom?

Someone (November 4, 2004)

how do you know when a being develops a conciousness? If you wear a condom, you're stopping lifeless cells...if you abort a fetus, you're killing a living, seperate creature. as for seperation of church and state... that's not constitutional. it's up to the government to protect the rights of the citizens. the marriage ammendment is in the states, where it should belong.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Even though I voted for Kerry, I am somewhat relieved to see Bush back in office. Now the public can see how truly fucked we are and this will tarnish the Republican party for years to come.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Fat Mike finds it terrible that people fear homosexuals, yet says fuck you to people who hold any strain of religion in their lives and sterotypes everyone in a Republican state is a redneck. Hate is hate, and it is no more right to hate a gay than to hate a Christain, Jew, Muslim or anything else. Stop the finger pointing, since you are doing the same thing yourself

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

This is on the Vandals webpage: Are any of you religious? Joe is Catholic and goes to church every Sunday. Well guess Mike's teaching tells us we must all hate the Vandals now.

civperc (November 4, 2004)

People like Fat Mike are hypocrites, plain and simple.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Wrong. Homosexuality is not a choice, it's a biological fact like race. Religion is a decision, just like Nazism.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

there's no proof of that.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Assuming you're a straight male, can you get a hard on to a man? If not, there's your proof.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Exactly. Plus the fact that 95% of Scientists and Therapists that study sexuality believe homosexuality is in the genes. http://www.religioustolerance.org

Someone (November 5, 2004)

they can turn fruit flys (Drysophila, probably spelled wrong) gay by creating a mutation in a gene.. kinda funny..

SteveJonesTheRealBones (November 4, 2004)

i can get a fucking hard on eating cheetos and watching aqua teen hunger force. what the fuck does that mean -jones

Someone (November 4, 2004)

It means you're an average teenager.

Someone (November 5, 2004)

well, ATHF is a rad show.. is it Meatwad that turns you on?

SteveJonesTheRealBones (November 5, 2004)

yeah, he's just too cute and badass at the same time - jones the bones

Someone (November 5, 2004)

I'd have to say that Carl the neighbor is quite a stud as well

Someone (November 5, 2004)

Yes, because Hitler ranks right up there with Christ, Bhudda, Yahweh, Allah, and Mohommed. The parrallels are unmistakeable...remember when the Dahli Llama tried to gas an entire race off the planet?

Someone (November 5, 2004)

p.s. I was being sarcastic

Someone (November 4, 2004)

he's only hating those christian rednecks b/c they hate homosexuals - he wrote a song about it called "i hate haters"

civperc (November 4, 2004)

What did I say all along? Bush '04 baby. Much relief to know he's still in office :thumbs up: Proud republican, civperc

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

Location: Texas

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I support Bush as well. Location: Southern California

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I support Bush as well. Lcocation: Doucheville, USA

AlbertFreddyIngram (November 4, 2004)

I support Bush as well, Location: Boulder, Co

Someone (November 5, 2004)

i support bush. location : Buffalo, NY

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I'm distraught by the election results, but at least i get to take comfort in the fact that Punkvoter fell flat on it's face.

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civperc (November 4, 2004)

I wouldn't have had as much of a problem with punkvoter if they had focused more on teaching today's youth about politics, government, etc., instead of just bashing Bush constantly in an immature manner. I gotta admit too, that it's somewhat satisfying to see them fail in some areas.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

this is hilarious: http://static.vidvote.com/movies/bushuncensored.mov

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PrincessDANarchy (November 4, 2004)

rock n roll. awesome

Someone (November 4, 2004)

400!

Someone (November 4, 2004)

"The reality of class struggle broke upon history with the same brutality as the reign of economics, which had suddenly emerged as the focus of all preoccupations" -Raoul Vaneigem, A Cavalier History of Surrealsim, 1977

KeithyBoBeefy (November 4, 2004)

I love how George W. Bush won!!! 4 more years mother fucker! Fat Mike is a little bitch who is all upset because he spent so much money and it emant nothing. The American public feels safer with President Bush. 08', Rudy Gilluani is going to beat whoever the Dem's throw up there, most likely Hillary.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

4 more years! I love it, suckers!

Someone (November 4, 2004)

http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=392&row=0

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

do people actually believe this bullshit?

Someone (November 5, 2004)

do you want to suck my dick?

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I would like to know exactly what bands some of these Bush supporters listen to. How can ANYONE that identifies with punk rock see Bush as a good leader. If Bush had his way, he'd have every punk rocker deported to the moon. That includes any "punk" that's not smarts enough to see through his smokescreen of fear and false freedoms.

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

you see unlike yourself and a minority of liberal punks people who like punk rock and right wing politics are willing to hear other peoples opions through music and like it! Also deporting people to the moon like you say Bush would do would cost trillions of dollars so i'm not so sure he'd do that as he is a good buisness man.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Bush is a good business man?!?! Not even Bush will lie about his failure as a business man. He couldn't find oil in Texas and ran their baseball team into the ground. He even traded Sosa to Chicago...very nice move. Trust me, if Bush had his way, he'd get rid of us all.

Someone (November 5, 2004)

sosa sucked ass in the beginning of his career.

AlbertFreddyIngram (November 4, 2004)

Hey Fatty, Maybe Kerry lost this race because none of you "democrats" actually told us about Kerry. All you people did was bitch and moan and repete what Michael Moore said and bash Bush. Maybe he did lots of bad things, and Im sure lots of people will tell me that he has done horrible things, but where are your sources. I go to the university of colorado at boulder(a very liberal town) and every fucking day "Bush did this" "Bush did that" "here, wear a Kerry sticker cause he is not Bush" "no i cant tell you anything about Kerry but you should vote for him" Well kids like me need to know about other canadates. Dont spread your manipulations cause after awhile(every day this semester) all your anti-Bush commets dont match up and kids like me Did not vote for kerry because of this, it just forced us to vote for Bush. Also, I would say most of the negative sedi

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

So some guy in a band tells you Bush is bad and that "forces" you to vote for Bush. Wow what a free-thinker you must be. How come the smear campaign against Kerry from people much more important than "guys in bands" didn't force you to vote for Kerry?

AlbertFreddyIngram (November 4, 2004)

First off I said some "dude" in a band. second, yes it did force me to vote for Bush because the only thing I learned about Kerry from all the Democratic sources was that he was not Bush. To me that does not justify voting for Kerry. and yes i am a free thinker, I didnt give in to the negative publicity surrounding this country and stuck to my own ideals and beliefs, and did not give in like the rest of you "punkrockers"(yes i know there are some real ones out there) and listen to Fat Mike whose music I have listened to for a greater portion of my life. ya i saw all yall at the warped tour saying "fuck the president" with anti-flag, you need to wake up and start thinking for yourself and not have some band think for you and decide who you vote for. Just face it the majority of Americans wanted Bush to stay in office and didnt give in to the negative publ

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Someone (November 5, 2004)

yea but the majority of americans are stupid...i always thought that and i was proven right

Someone (November 4, 2004)

why dont you follow yourself not some 'anchor' on fox news.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

¨repete¨ HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! You are a damn idiot!!!

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I guess we shouldn't be surprised of all the morons that post on here. After all, millions of people did vote for Bush cuz they think he'll save them from gays and terrorists. Hey Bush-loving "punks", remember when Bush said "Bring it on" to legions of suicidal fundamentalists? Remember that when America is attacked next time. You asked for it, and voted for it too.

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

Indeed. I hope the next time the terrorists attack, they do it to a Red state. They voted for war, give it to them. Maybe then they'll know how those crazy liberals in New York feel. http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/NY/P/00/cou nty.001.html#36061

Someone (November 5, 2004)

kerry voted for war...

KeithyBoBeefy (November 5, 2004)

I hate you. Honestly. Go fall on a knife.

swingline (November 4, 2004)

In other news, http://www.absolutepunk.net/showthread.php?t=51104 ABSOLUTE PUNK they don't fuck around.

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

yer not serious are you? a buncha lil girls talking about a brand new poster on the OC? The world really IS coming to an end.

KB (November 6, 2004)

that site sucked ass. I didnt read the whole thing but I noticed "Brand New", "Taking Back Sunday", and "Something Corporate" mentioned more than once, so I got scared and left. The sad part is that "absolutepunk" sounds like a cool web site....its not...

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Dear asshole nationalists that say anti-Bush punks should leave the country, how bout you try and LIVE without any forward thinking progressives. Alabama may be gawd's country, but you yokels wouldn't even have running water without people from NY, SF, LA, Chicago, Seattle...pretty much ANY place where people have two IQ points to rub together. I'm all for leaving the country, but I'm taking my chunk with it. I say the West Coast, Northeast, and Great Lake States secede and we live you pigs to wallow in your offal. Nazi punks fuck off. Still.

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SteveJonesTheRealBones (November 4, 2004)

if the seceded, first thing they would do would be throw morons like you out, then ask some midwest states to join them for crops and othe industries

Someone (November 4, 2004)

if you claim to be a "forward thinking progressive" why does your usage of grammer suck so bad. I would also like to know were you'd be without the working class who you are currently spitting on? Who paves your rodes, fixes you're pipes, and cleans up your garbage. for somone who claims to be liberal you sure are close minded.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

I'm all for the working class. It's the single biggest reason I despise Bush and the Neo-Cons. You mispelled "rodes" and incorrectly contracted "you're". Those who live in glass highrises...

Someone (November 4, 2004)

[puts down bong] You guys act like the election is over. We got like, 4 more days left.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

[puts down bong] You guys act like the election is over already. We got like, 4 more days left.

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Someone (November 5, 2004)

Wasn't funny the first time

Someone (November 4, 2004)

reguardless, democratic or republican, we're all screwed

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

most honest statment in this thread

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Regardless?

Someone (November 4, 2004)

How in the hell would it be any different (than the comment below) if Kerry were to have been elected? "My predictions for the next 4 years: -Iraq will continue to be an absolute mess. -Terrorist cells continue to gain members. -North Korea and Iran continue to be significant nuclear threats. -The economy of the U.S. will go into a nosedive, other countries will be more reluctant to trade with them (Bush is probably the most hated man in the world). Job losses should be in the range of 1-2 million. Beyond that, the average person's income will be worth far less than it is now due to inflation and the fact that the new jobs being created to replace the ones that left just don't pay (it's tough to make a living working at Wal-Mart). -Oil and Natural Gas exploration in the Alaska refuge will cause irreversible environmental damage. -Despite that, Oil and Natural Gas

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Someone (November 4, 2004)

All NOFX's umpteen full lengths before War On Errorism: 15 or so unfunny songs about vaginas, drinking and being punk War On Errorism: 7 songs about politics, 7 about stupid crap, all unfunny NOFX's next full length: two songs about politics, 12 about stupid crap. Screw fairweather politics.

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PrincessDANarchy (November 4, 2004)

You obviously take NOFX too seriously.

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Good job, punkvoter. The web page you cited to prove that "youth voters showed up in mass" has an article linked on the front page titled "Youth Voting Has Declined By Any Measure".

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Children are stupid. If anything, the biggest "freeloaders" in this nation aren't the countless numbers on welfare - they are the stupid brat kids that never have to work for anything and drive around all day in their parent's BMW while blasting their shitty pop-rock. John Mayer, most of my graduating class, and the entire cast of The O.C. is reason enough for me to believe that abortion should be completely legal and free.

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SteveJonesTheRealBones (November 4, 2004)

um. those people arent free loaders though. they may not do shit. but they are in the position to not do shit

Someone (November 5, 2004)

I was joking, dude.

SteveJonesTheRealBones (November 5, 2004)

sorry its hard to tell. my mistake -jb

Someone (November 4, 2004)

Actually the Punkvoter link reads: "Youth Turnout Up Sharply in 2004 4.6 Million More Young People Cast Votes Than in 2000 Youth Turnout Up by 9.3 Points" It doesn't come as a surprise that Bush-lovers can't read english. Wait til only the elite have access to education and your 17 in-bred children get to be illiterate just like you.

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SteveJonesTheRealBones (November 4, 2004)

um. ok bro. too bad you dont know how the reply buttons work -jones

Someone (November 5, 2004)

moral values are hating homosexuals, loving money, breeding intolerance, killing the muslim world, ignorning science, controling the masses with fear, denying choices, taking away freedom of speech, cutting education, lying to the world, and taking from the mouths of the hungry to give to greed of corperations. makes sence to me.

KB (November 5, 2004)

You know what? I'm from NH, and like the rest of New England I voted for Kerry. I'm sick of rednecks fucking everything up. I think we should defect as show here. I also think that we should base the amount of Electoral votes a state gets based on its average IQ, as shown here. FUCK THE REDNECKS!! LET THEM HAVE THEIR KING!!!

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KB (November 5, 2004)

whoops. Looks like I fucked up a little HTML....guess that will invalidate my entire point....

SteveJonesTheRealBones (November 5, 2004)

i like how everyone here that voted for kerry thinks they are so smart for the fact that they voted for kerry - j the b

Someone (November 5, 2004)

I would think that smart people wouldn't vote for a man who can hardly speak English. Idiots, on the other hand, can easily relate to Bush.

SteveJonesTheRealBones (November 5, 2004)

ok. you probably never heard a speach by bush or even watched the debate in whole. all you people ever see are clips on the daily show and mike moore. its hilarious. - jones.

KB (November 6, 2004)

actually, I watched all three debates and Kerry wasted Bush in all three of them. Bush is a dumbass and the rednecks love a dumbass.

Someone (November 5, 2004)

we're all gonna die...

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FrEaKy217468 (November 5, 2004)

I hope terrorist kill Bush..

Not-To-Regret (November 5, 2004)

It's great how in Canada we can drink at age 19 and basically smoke pot freely (here in BC). And as for issues gay marriage is on the backburner and is rarely talked about, while the debate for pot decriminalization is again at the forefront of Canadian politics. A majority of Canadians disagree with the decision to join in the space weapons program with the USA. While the American media and political system publicly and repeatedly bring up the issue of gay marriage and push their agenda of "global security" upon the world.

Someone (November 5, 2004)

So...lets be honest here kids...say there is a draft...for arguments sake...what would you do? Free cameras http://www.cameras4free.com/default.aspx?r=32534

Someone (November 5, 2004)

its funny you tell people to vote and they do but just because kerry didnt win you say the homophobic turnout was up as well good job tell kids to vote then make fun or excuses that is what is wrong with you guys

Someone (November 5, 2004)

i dont understand one thing... wouldn't all the so called "punks" be for Bush?... i thought punk was about having no/less government... I dont really care for Bush, but I dont like the idea of the government controlling everything...

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Someone (November 5, 2004)

Punk is about complaining about the government then wanting it to solve all your problems and labeling anyone who has a different view of government as a racist, sexist, bigot, homophobe, redneck, nazi or fascist. Everyone knows that disagreement is so not punk-rock, disagreeing with Fat Mike's propaganda is fascism (yeah I see the irony too). As for voting Bush... he loves big government as much as Kerry, he just wants it to do different things (i.e. prohibit gay marriage, etc.). People who truly wanted government out of our lives would have voted for Michael Badnarik (Libertarian), but as you can probably see from this message board punks like to whine about government, but deep down inside a lot of them want nothing more than to convert America to socialism.

Someone (November 5, 2004)

This election is completely irrelevant. Either way we're fucked. You coastal commies can go do your Soviet Union medicare thing by yourselves (look how healthy the Cubans are!) and you midwestern/southern rednecks can secede and make sure there's no ass-fucking, pot smoking or nigger loving going on where you live, but either way its the same thing: government controlling your lives. Guess what, I didn't ask to be born in America in the late 20th century, in fact, I didn't ask to be born at all. I do not belong to anyone besides myself. The fact that I exist does not mean I owe the government or society jack shit. Let me live my life and I'll let you live yours. I'm willing to exchange my work for money. When you force me to give my money to others without my consent, no matter what the reason, that is no different than if I take a gun and rob you. Socialism

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sickboi (chris) (November 5, 2004)

Do you drive a car? How should those streets you drive on get paid for? Stupid, ignorant youth.

Someone (November 5, 2004)

I have no problem with completely privatizing transportation. I realize that taxes and government programs are so ingrained in our culture that we can never completely get rid of them, nor do I think they're always bad. America is moving farther and farther to the left econmically, pushed that way by "conservatives" and liberals alike. Believe it or not Americans give more money per capita to charities than any other country. I think Americans are willing to help those less fortunate than themselves and I know I have no problem donating money to good causes, but its wrong for the government to forcibly take money from people who have earned it honestly and give it to others who in some cases just don't want to work.

sickboi (chris) (November 5, 2004)

I agree with ya there. And personally, I dont like that someone with children, using more resources than me, pays less in taxes.

Someone (November 5, 2004)

Is this the most posts ever?

Someone (November 5, 2004)

My sister's bush is smarter than Bush. Yeah, I've seen my sister's bush. It's nice. -Charles Brown

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Someone (November 5, 2004)

Ive seen it too. Yah, it is nice.

Someone (November 5, 2004)

I don't mean to incite a flame war or anything, this is a serious question, so if you don't have anything reasonable to say, don't waste my time. A lot of punks claim to be anarchists or at least distrust all government. At the same time, however, they want government to control health care, wages, housing, etc. I kind of understand the concept that big government is a step towards communist anarchy, but why would the government suddenly relinquish its control when it had so much power? Also, in an anarchist utopia, what happens if someone wants out? Who is going to enforce the anarchy? Once you have people enforcing anarchy their becomes a system of control and it is no longer anarchy, correct? Like I said, I'm not trying to be an asshole, I'm just seriously wondering about those questions.

Someone (November 5, 2004)

The idiots have taken over: http://www.livejournal.com/users/jgp/86326.html

Not-To-Regret (November 5, 2004)

The overall consensus I'm perceiving from this board is that "the world is the way it is so deal with it" or "the world could be better but let's be realistic about it". Quite frankly I agree with both points of view to some extent. We need a healthy mix of socialism and capitalism (we all work hard but when a comrade falls ill we help him out). Yeah I know... people say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. It is not okay to shut out either "side" of the spectrum, but it should be more than 2 sides (especially in America) contributing to the policy of the world's most powerful country. The USA has the power to help the world, and the power to pursue it's own interest. Personally I'd rather be viewed as generous than as greedy and selfish.

Someone (November 5, 2004)

apparently the consensus on this website is that if you have a religion then you are ignorant. it takes more conviction to stick to a belief system than to not have one at all. i voted for bush because he deals with economics the scientific way, not the ideological way, because, you know, economics is a science.

Someone (November 5, 2004)

by the way, socialism is an antiquated belief. it failed everyone but china and it's gradually becoming less controlling in china. and the deal with bush taking freedoms away: socialism takes freedoms away, ever heard of tianamen (or however it's spelled) square, or communism, or the USSR?

Someone (November 5, 2004)

you know what doesnt make sense? when gays complain about how banning gay marriage gives non gays more rights. i'm heterosexual and i can't marry a guy, and gays cant marry a guy, so how do i have more rights? i can get married as long as it is to a woman, and a gay can get married as long as it is to a woman. that's equal rights.

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Someone (November 5, 2004)

the right to marry a women is of no use to gay men.

Someone (November 5, 2004)

doesnt matter, they still have equal rights. they dont have less rights because no one else can marry a person of the same gender. that is equal rights.

Someone (November 5, 2004)

gay people dont have the right to marry, while straight people do.

KeithyBoBeefy (November 6, 2004)

Yes they do. Just not men. Just like a heterosexual person can't marry a guy either.

Someone (November 6, 2004)

Unless that heterosexual person is a WOMEN... Absolutely, strictly speaking, there are equal rights, if we are talking the right to marry someone of the opposite sex. But this right is HETERO-CENTRIC. Ha, hows that. made it up. What for the homosexual? If the right is simply TO MARRY, they certainly are discriminatad against, and there is not equal rights. And still, the right to marry someone of the opposite sex is discriminatory cos it donesnt account for homosexual people.

KeithyBoBeefy (November 5, 2004)

I love how some of you complain that you hate George W. Bush so much, yet you openly wish that all republicans should drop dead. I also don't understand why, to be punk rock, you have to be a liberal? That's what decides if you're punk or not? If that's what it means to be punk, then fuck this whole 'scene'. It died a long time ago anyway. The think that makes me laugh is how punkvoter has so many horrible bands on it. I'mr eally going to listen to Newfound Glory and do what they say. Yellowcard is so great and they tell me to vote democrat! Give me a damn rbeak, both of those bands are so horrible and I wouldn't listen to anything they told me if it was political. Fat Mike lost. His attempt to "change" America failed. He failed. Now stop being cry babies and unite with the current government and try to make this world better. -keith

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Someone (November 6, 2004)

How about I stab you right in your eye, dickhead? nazis/conervatives fuck off.

Someone (November 6, 2004)

Please feel free to leave the punk scene then, because it really doesn't need any more blind, patriotic brainwashed cunts like you who's mummies and daddies told them how great America was and that you should vote Bush because they're scared of being sent Anthrax in the post.

KeithyBoBeefy (November 6, 2004)

I did leave the punk scene when I realized that all its about is thinking the same. It was always about being different, and now its quite obvious you are all the same. Bravo. I like how you can also group conservatives and nazi's in the same category. You should read over your statement and realize how horribly incorrect you are.

Someone (November 6, 2004)

1) I did not group Conservatives and Nazi's as the same, that was they guy above me. 2) Punk is about being different, but not about being blindly stupid. Punk is open to interpretation, which is the beauty of it. My interpretation of it, along with many others, is that there is a common goal to challenge authority. Which is obviously not your interpretation. I am not a liberal to be the same as everyone else. I am a liberal because I am not scared of the Government. Throughout history leaders have put their people in fear, so that the people support their actions of hostility towards other countries. Hitler did it. Stalin did it. Now Bush is doing it. But obviously you can't see that.

KeithyBoBeefy (November 6, 2004)

The grouping of nazi's and conservatives was inteneded for the guy above you. My apologies. I'm not afraid of the government. I'm a conservative. I find it funny how you say Bush is going on the same path as Hitler, yet Saddam was almost, if not, as bad as Hitler. Isn't thatr eason enough to take him out of power?

Someone (November 7, 2004)

It's debatable whether the sacrifice of all those innocent people was worth it or not in order to remove Saddam, but I think the more important issue is that the President had to lie about WMD's and Iraq's connection to the 'Axis of Evil' in order to get support for his war. If he's prepared to lie about something that great, what else is he prepared to lie about? The 'afraid of the Government' comment was a bit of a generalisation, but it is clear that a lot of people are afraid to oppose the Government and put blind faith in it rather than questioning it.

Someone (November 8, 2004)

bush knows fear will control the masses and it got him a second term. so good for him i suppose.

KeithyBoBeefy (November 8, 2004)

"but I think the more important issue is that the President had to lie about WMD's and Iraq's connection to the 'Axis of Evil' " Oh come on. Saddam had disobeyed the UN so many times with his weapons program. The UN is filled with a bunch of anti-semetic bastards which is why they never did anything. That and they were being payed off with the money from the oil for food program. Anything to take away a horrible dictator who would build WMD's again and possibly give them to terrorists who would use them agaisnt the U.S. of A is ok by me.

Someone (November 5, 2004)

all this whining and bitching is only for the LOSERS, that's why you here so much whining and bitching because they LOST.

Someone (November 6, 2004)

GOD BLESS AMERICA!!! THE USA IS NO. 1!!! BUSH RULES!!! That's all I ever hear from you conservative punks. Well, I've got news for you. News you're not going to like. AMERICA FUCKING SUCKS!!! I've been to different places in the USA on holiday 9 times now, because my parents really enjoy going there for some reason. Well, I can safely say you live in the WORST country on the planet! Well, maybe that's an exaggeration, but still, the people are all dumb as fuck, fat as fuck and smell like shit, the drugs are shitty, the beer is shitty, and the women are either incredibly ugly or they're hot but, once again, dumb as fuck. The weather's usually nice, but the weather's nice in Hawaii or Australia or any other country. And before you start bitching about where I'm from, I live in Britain, which sucks just as much.

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KeithyBoBeefy (November 6, 2004)

"but the weather's nice in Hawaii or Australia or any other country." Um...A good ol' geography lesson would do you much good.

Not-To-Regret (November 6, 2004)

"stop being cry babies and unite with the current government" Sounds like a mixture of something Kerry and Bush would say. You know, something safe to say as to not show balls and piss off or alienate the other side.

Someone (November 8, 2004)

Jebb Bush 2008 - hahaha, wait thats not funny

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