Just now? Because I thought that happened a while ago when various "teen stars/sensations" were singing "punk" songs.

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UberShep (April 12, 2005)

yep, 30 years ago

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Someone (April 13, 2005)

i guess it didn't work. i really tried to lay the sarcasm on as thick as possible. i'll do better next time, i promise.

dude, fuck off, i think of the real shit yeah, i think of taste of chaos - jones the bones - stevejones8770@yahoo.com

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swingline (April 12, 2005)

you goddamn elitist asshole

isnt that guy 50 or something ...war ? con ? yeah...con alright

maintaining credibility by "only force feeding kids what we KNOW they will buy!"

and I still like Yoohoo.

couldnt have said it better myself

If you need members for your army of vigilantes, let me know.

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StevePantalones (April 12, 2005)

Just so you know, Bleed the Dream, Opiate for the Masses, and half the bands you probably think are hardcore are not so. Check out Comeback Kid, With Honor, Champion, Bane. Those are the closest thing hardcore bands we have nowadays. NOT to mention hardcore is a lifestyle, its about how what you eat, drink, or wear.

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CellarDoor (April 12, 2005)

Word, I need a fucking white belt.

they aren' the only "indie" label on fontana. just buy the music if you enjoy it. If not, just chill till the next episode, like me.

That's simply a music industry idiom. They call major label owned distribution companies "indies" to as not cause confusion with the major distribution arm of said label and also because the labels the "indie" distributes are "indie" labels. For example, Universal Music and Video Distribution is the name of the company that distributes like Interscope and Geffen, but Fontana is another distribution company owned by Universal, except they do smaller "indie" labels like Vagrant.

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Someone (April 13, 2005)

What a crock. It's like saying "War is Peace."

Exactly

It's going to lose money? Damn, I was hoping it went public. I wanna be a shareholder in this!

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Someone (April 12, 2005)

Ask Amazon, losing money has never stopped a company from going public before! As for whether it does, that's usually how new ventures raise money... but it depends on the nature of their relationship with other entities like Warner Music. (And I've lost track of who owns them these days. Might be the Seagram family...?)

Why would you assume it'll fail? Warped Tour draws thousands of kids every year and makes $ hand over fist. Wishful thinking's fine, but this is targeted at a lot of people who aren't concerned with going too far beneath the surface of the look.

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Someone (April 13, 2005)
It's a different kind of venture, though. Warped is lucky because it profits off the successes of individual bands, products and labels (like a punk mutual fund) many of whom service comparatively limited demographics. Unlike Warped, Warcon is trying to plug itself into the chain of commerce at an earlier point, and that means dealing with things that have never been a problem for Warped (like competition from other labels, building successful brands, and longer-range trendspotting). Warcon's biggest problem, though, is the bottom line. Based on the people and the companies involved, it's going to have to do a pretty major business to be considered a success... and that's proved virtually impossible for past major-label efforts to cash in on indie/hardcore/punk. Heck, most indie/hardcore/punk labels can't even do it! Ultimately, I think the economics of indie/hardcore/punk ma

show rest of commentIt's a different kind of venture, though. Warped is lucky because it profits off the successes of individual bands, products and labels (like a punk mutual fund) many of whom service comparatively limited demographics. Unlike Warped, Warcon is trying to plug itself into the chain of commerce at an earlier point, and that means dealing with things that have never been a problem for Warped (like competition from other labels, building successful brands, and longer-range trendspotting). Warcon's biggest problem, though, is the bottom line. Based on the people and the companies involved, it's going to have to do a pretty major business to be considered a success... and that's proved virtually impossible for past major-label efforts to cash in on indie/hardcore/punk. Heck, most indie/hardcore/punk labels can't even do it! Ultimately, I think the economics of indie/hardcore/punk make it virtually impossible to succeed on a grand scale - which is exactly what this venture will have to achieve to keep its investors happy.
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LushJ (April 13, 2005)
Hmm, that's a good take on it. But if they use their other companies/connections to push it all at once then their kids won't have a choice (and my point is that they won't WANT a choice since it's not an important question for them). Warcon could be the indie Clear Channel, controlling production, manufacturing, and retail outlets within the music industry. Instead of buying out Bill Graham or other clubs, Warcon has the Warped and other tours. By pushing Warcon clothing and bands to the forefront on said tours, they've got a captive audience. Of course, the one linchpin to this, which is what you point out, is having the bands that are popular enough to play on the main stages at Warped in the first place. $10 says they import some already popular bands to augment the relative unknowns they've got already. And your point about indie and faux indie labels generally having a

show rest of commentHmm, that's a good take on it. But if they use their other companies/connections to push it all at once then their kids won't have a choice (and my point is that they won't WANT a choice since it's not an important question for them). Warcon could be the indie Clear Channel, controlling production, manufacturing, and retail outlets within the music industry. Instead of buying out Bill Graham or other clubs, Warcon has the Warped and other tours. By pushing Warcon clothing and bands to the forefront on said tours, they've got a captive audience. Of course, the one linchpin to this, which is what you point out, is having the bands that are popular enough to play on the main stages at Warped in the first place. $10 says they import some already popular bands to augment the relative unknowns they've got already. And your point about indie and faux indie labels generally having a tough time now is good, except Warcon will be able to sink much more $ into promotion ahead of time, unliike most labels.That and the attention they'll get may be enough to get them past the new company shakes into the medium size company plateau. At that point they may be able to ride out the music biz with a little help from their bands and, of course, the Warped Tour. Finally, the experience of these folks suggest that they have a better chance than most to be successful with this. But similar things have failed before, so who knows? Labels sign great bands or trendy bands or popular bands and fail miserably with them all the time. Meanwhile, underknown bands/scenes pop out of nowhere and are successful, leaving the rest of the music companies to play catch-up. Personally, I'm not a fan of this kind of cross-business stuff. It's a naked grab for consolidation of services and outlets that leave the rest of the indie and faux indie world needing to go through Warcon for some service or another (mostly Warped, no doubt).
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LushJ (April 13, 2005)

... and how does the Warcon's label tastes jibe with their tour acumen? The more I think about it, the more doubtful I am. Who do they like? What kind of music? If they can land an established anchor band or two, their odds get a lot better.

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Someone (April 13, 2005)
I think you're completely right... but building that crucial stable of anchor bands is no easy task. Most people don't realize the comparatively thin profit margins that most bands generate in their early years (which doesn't look good for a major company's bottom line) and if they try to grow by signing more established bands they'll have to deal with competition from both majors and indie labels. It also sounds like Warcon has made the enormous mistake of overestimating their potential customer base: some pretty overwhelming evidence suggests that no matter how well punk/indie/hardcore is advertised, many people don't like it and won't buy it. Anyways... the point of all of this is that this project is not predestined for success. Although I haven't done the best job explaining it, I believe that the economics of punk/indie/hardcore create an almost inescapable niche marketplace w

show rest of commentI think you're completely right... but building that crucial stable of anchor bands is no easy task. Most people don't realize the comparatively thin profit margins that most bands generate in their early years (which doesn't look good for a major company's bottom line) and if they try to grow by signing more established bands they'll have to deal with competition from both majors and indie labels. It also sounds like Warcon has made the enormous mistake of overestimating their potential customer base: some pretty overwhelming evidence suggests that no matter how well punk/indie/hardcore is advertised, many people don't like it and won't buy it. Anyways... the point of all of this is that this project is not predestined for success. Although I haven't done the best job explaining it, I believe that the economics of punk/indie/hardcore create an almost inescapable niche marketplace with different rules than the marketplace at large. As a result a "mainstream" marketplace venture is destined to fail when transplanted into the punk niche market. There's a really good book to be written here... and If I manage to finish my goddamn thesis, I might just try!
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Someone (April 13, 2005)
Just to clarify further - sorry, it's still early - you wrote: "Warcon will be able to sink much more $ into promotion ahead of time... That and the attention they'll get may be enough to get them past the new company shakes into the medium size company plateau." Because this is a "major" venture, however, two things by definition must occur: 1) they'll have to recoup the cash they spend on promotion and production, and 2) they'll have to make enough profit to justify the venture. An indie like Asian Man has the same concerns, but has expectations set by the marketplace - so a slim profit might be enough to justify the venture (or no profit, as we all know Mike Park does it for the love of the music). In contrast, Warcon is being founded by industry pirates after punk rock booty, which means that the terms of success have changed... but because there's a built in ceil

show rest of commentJust to clarify further - sorry, it's still early - you wrote: "Warcon will be able to sink much more $ into promotion ahead of time... That and the attention they'll get may be enough to get them past the new company shakes into the medium size company plateau." Because this is a "major" venture, however, two things by definition must occur: 1) they'll have to recoup the cash they spend on promotion and production, and 2) they'll have to make enough profit to justify the venture. An indie like Asian Man has the same concerns, but has expectations set by the marketplace - so a slim profit might be enough to justify the venture (or no profit, as we all know Mike Park does it for the love of the music). In contrast, Warcon is being founded by industry pirates after punk rock booty, which means that the terms of success have changed... but because there's a built in ceiling on the punk rock marketplace it can't support a "major label" definition of success.
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LushJ (April 13, 2005)

No argument with most of what you write, though I think there's going to be more leeway given these folks because of their involvement with the different underground scenes- at least as perceived by the mainstream music industry. Sure, Joe Mohawk may call "poseur" on the founder of the Warped Tour, but Sony's Board has no such perspective. The music industry's used to gambling on hitting it big (heck, their whole structure is proof of this), so they'll let Warcon float a little longer than similar entities with less well-known people running them.

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Someone (April 13, 2005)

I guess only time will tell. - OC

I really like alt-country. Its quite good, and it will catch on soon enough. It starts with Bright Eyes, then to the Weakerthans, and then you are in. And thats all she wrote folks.

warcon is retarded

Don't bring Orwell into this.

may all your interventions be humanitarian. too late.

true

Warcon, Taste of Chaos, and The Warped Tour itself are not punk rock, nor have they ever claimed to be. "WARCON’s mission is to make itself synonymous with the punk/metal/post-hardcore lifestyle." They're certainly trying to market themselves as punk rock to naive kids. Douche. -Chinatown

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LushJ (April 13, 2005)
Sounds like you're old before your time. This is a tangent, but why not dream and work towards a world where artists can create art on their own ethical terms, and where the support network for the artists can survive on their pay WITHOUT sucking corporate cock? Like you, I work at an independent record label, and while we have health/dental insurance (thankfully!) I won't be buying a new car or a house anytime soon on my salary. But I'm also better off than most people who work at non-corporate labels. For me, I do have a job and I do contribute to society in a very meaningful manner. I'm 34, the owner of the label is in his late 40s (Jello Biafra), and the youngest person here is 27. I feel sorry for you, buying the mainstream bullshit about "growing up" meaning turning your back on your ideals and your art. Too bad kid, at least you'll have some tales to tell

show rest of commentSounds like you're old before your time. This is a tangent, but why not dream and work towards a world where artists can create art on their own ethical terms, and where the support network for the artists can survive on their pay WITHOUT sucking corporate cock? Like you, I work at an independent record label, and while we have health/dental insurance (thankfully!) I won't be buying a new car or a house anytime soon on my salary. But I'm also better off than most people who work at non-corporate labels. For me, I do have a job and I do contribute to society in a very meaningful manner. I'm 34, the owner of the label is in his late 40s (Jello Biafra), and the youngest person here is 27. I feel sorry for you, buying the mainstream bullshit about "growing up" meaning turning your back on your ideals and your art. Too bad kid, at least you'll have some tales to tell at the end of the bar when your hair goes grey. "Back before I grew up I had a great life. Since I grew up, my life has sucked. But that's what I was forced to do because I was too scared and unimaginative to do otherwise."

See, this is your problem. You act like there is some kind of vicious musical enemy out to ruin music forever. You are being over dramatic. As soon as the underground becomes mainstream, there will be a new underground to take its place. Always has, always will. Besides, it's just punk rock. It's nothing more than fashion and identity. You really shouldn't take it that serious. I guarantee you won't care about it when you get older on any meaningful level other than the memories you had from being involved in the scene. It's just supposed to be something fun to be a part of untill you turn into an adult and get a real job. Besides, if this stuff turns you off, you are free to not support it. Maybe you can even start your own band to rebel against it all. It'll be fun. Either way, it's not life or death.

whoops. see that someone else had the exact same thoughts a little higher up.