Was Disneyworld full?

Move it to Epcot. Put it by that "cultures of the world" lake so people can take pictures.

agreed. vegas is kind of silly.

It really has become way to difficult to run a venue in NYC. There is way to much politics and ball busting. It sucks that it is going to leave the city but I can understand.

A scene that is crazy about money? Overpriced drinks? Tacky settings? I think that just described Vegas.

socal peeps are definitely starving for shows. definitely.

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Someone (December 4, 2005)

Haha no doubt.

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PsychoOS231 (December 4, 2005)

i want shows "Every day of the week" not "every other day" thats what we're lacking, more shows.

I don't think you've ever been to Vegas.

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TheRevisionist (December 4, 2005)

you'd be correct

las vegas has one of the fastest growing public school systems in the country. it's expanding like no one's business and the most noticeable thing is the growing number of first generation kids from families who have moved there.

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TheRevisionist (December 4, 2005)

huh. you learn something new everyday.

OUCH! funny, but OUCH!

yes it is all about the money..Inthe real world buisness like CBGB's have to pay bills, employees, rent, insurense, etc......... They don't bust their ass runing a club for 30 + years for the hell of it! Grow up kiddo........life tough when you don't live with yer folks Dave Cropknox

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AlmostPunkEnough (December 4, 2005)

dear lord you're stupid. have you ever been to CB's? they pay their employees next to nothing, the never fix ANYTHING in that place. the bathrooms rarely work, they have bottom shelf everything and overcharge for it, they make more money off merch than they'd ever admit. the only things they really pay are insurance and and rent, and yes, both of those are entirely too high, but welcome to NYC, deal with it. Kristal is rich and doesn't feel like taking a hit on that shithole anymore. moving it to Vegas is gonna be an extremely profitable move. if anyone really cared about the history or the music they'd just let it die. and i don't live with my parents, and unlike CBGB's, i get by just fine.

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Someone (December 5, 2005)

yeah I've been to CBGB's.it is a shit hole..however it's never claimed to be anything but a bar/venue......perhaps one of some historical note....you miss the point If say ABC No Rio or 924 Gilman did somthing like this it would be lame as they are DIY community run spaces.........Hilley Kristal got rich by running a profitable buisness, now that NYC isn't working he's looking to move? seems like a pretty sound buisness move to me.."we" the "scene" don't CB's....the Kristal's do Dave Cropknox

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Dante3000 (rich) (December 4, 2005)

Oh, I'm afraid we can't award you all 10 points on your "hillbilly typing skills" it appears you over looked the word "ifina" or we would also accpet "ifinya". It appears you only get 7 points and you'll need to tighten up your retard speak for the lightening round. -Dante

you saying that definitely explains why your name is "almostpunkenough" not steve jones the real bones

yea, someone did call it. FuckYouOiOiOi will find it. this really is one of the stupidest things i've ever seen. it makes the Warner E-Label seem like a great idea.

I cant even fucking imagine stepping out of this club late at night after a show to the fucking orange glow of Vegas.... Can some one shoot me in the head? I think the world has really just fucking gone mad. -Cappel

I said it in the Kill Your Idols live cd review. It's been in the gossip columns around here for months.

Nothing under 20 years old should be used in the same phrase as "legendary". Unless it's my legend breaking shit. -Dante

you sir are a moron and should be glad you posted anonymously not steve jones the real bones

again, in what spacial dimension is Vegas not south of NY?

true, LV is technically south of NY, but it would be more appropriate to call it "westerly".

OMG ur so immature, grow up! punx is for the people. in all honesty, for the last few years CBGBs may as well have been in Vegas. it's become a hipster symbol of coolness more than anything. i mean, this is really bad, but punk has been dead for so long that i'm suprised this didn't happen earlier. at least they're not making anymore allusions to being underground anymore, right?

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Dante3000 (rich) (December 4, 2005)

Funny, when Greg MacPherson opened for Propaghandi there was some douche screaming something or other about playing more punk. MacPherson looked at the dude and said something along the lines of, "Punks been dead for a long time nothing you're going to hear any fucking more is punk rock". Then he talked about the how it has been made a comodity and shit. People looked so shocked, like, "We're here at Propaghandi, so punk can't be dead. We know punk rock!". Some dudes even booed him. They may have felt different if they knew he was on G7 which is run by members of Propaghandi. -Dante

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AlmostPunkEnough (December 4, 2005)

actual punk is long gone, but the spirit of it (to some extent) lives on. the real problem comes with people who think punk should be the same as it was in 77 or 83 or whenever the fuck. or think we should call it something else, as if a name makes a genre. i don't want to ge into A.J. Ayer type shit about the philosophy and meaning of words, but punk is punk, regardless of what it's called. i've said it too many times, and i know i'm preaching to the choir, but punk is not about a sound or a hairstyle or a look, it's about a feeling and free-thinking spirit. i'm sure this will piss some kids off, but Greg MacPherson is a million times more punk than a band like the Casualties will ever be.

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die_die_die (December 4, 2005)

I'd hate to compare punk to religion, but punk morals are like the 10 commandments. Some morals need to be kept. Still you are right, to many kids think running around looking punk and screaming fuck the government makes you a punker.

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AlmostPunkEnough (December 4, 2005)
certain things tie into early punk still, for sure, but it's all idealistic. you're exactly right about the religion thing though. punk is like Christianity (bear with me), early punk was like Jesus, just spreading new ideas/tollerence/a different way of thinking. early followers got this and did the same. then came popularity, with popularity, corruption, and so on. we reach present day and all of a sudden both have become bastardized vbersion of what they were originally meant for. it's all about posturing, 'dressing the part', and of couse, more important than anything: making money. i may hate organized christianity, but i certainly don't mind people who follow the ideas of Jesus. same with punk, except i don't hate posturing punks, i just don't buy it. i like the Casulaties, i like Anti-Flag, etc. but i truly respect only the bands who are free-thinking and don't give a shit abou

show rest of commentcertain things tie into early punk still, for sure, but it's all idealistic. you're exactly right about the religion thing though. punk is like Christianity (bear with me), early punk was like Jesus, just spreading new ideas/tollerence/a different way of thinking. early followers got this and did the same. then came popularity, with popularity, corruption, and so on. we reach present day and all of a sudden both have become bastardized vbersion of what they were originally meant for. it's all about posturing, 'dressing the part', and of couse, more important than anything: making money. i may hate organized christianity, but i certainly don't mind people who follow the ideas of Jesus. same with punk, except i don't hate posturing punks, i just don't buy it. i like the Casulaties, i like Anti-Flag, etc. but i truly respect only the bands who are free-thinking and don't give a shit about looks or popularity, just their message. did that even make any sense? i'm rambling now.
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Dante3000 (rich) (December 4, 2005)

Would that make Iggy Pop like Jesus? They kind of look alike. And Tony from Victory can be Pat....The dude on TV who is all Jeusie and prays for Supreme Court Justices to die...Pat Roberts maybe? Anyhow, I do understand. And after talking to MacPherson you learn homeboy is punk rock. He crossed the Canadian border free of charge because he's not planing to make any money off the Propaghandi tour...That's loving your job. -Dante

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die_die_die (December 4, 2005)

Total sense man.

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AlmostPunkEnough (December 4, 2005)

haha, thanks, i reread it to make sure. and Dante, if Pat Roberston wasn't the Devil, Tony from Victory would be, so yea, you're right on about that one.

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FuckYouOiOiOi (December 4, 2005)
All right, i gotta disagree (I think this is the first time I've disagreed with you). If you say early punk was spreading new ideas/tolerance/different way of thinking and didn't give a shit about popularity why don't we actually look at some early punk bands: the Ramones all dressed up a certain way (maybe not mohawks but long hair and leather jackets were the mohawks of the time). And they DID want popularity ("We Want the Airwaves", read the booklet inside the anthology). Sex Pistols also dressed up a certain way, same with the Clash (who had radio singles) and pretty much every other band. So this idea about a bands message being cheapened if they dress a certain way really doesn't make sense when compared to early punk. AND, there is still a healthy, thriving underground punk scene that don't want to get played on the radio or mtv, have no desire to become RICH* (even t

show rest of commentAll right, i gotta disagree (I think this is the first time I've disagreed with you). If you say early punk was spreading new ideas/tolerance/different way of thinking and didn't give a shit about popularity why don't we actually look at some early punk bands: the Ramones all dressed up a certain way (maybe not mohawks but long hair and leather jackets were the mohawks of the time). And they DID want popularity ("We Want the Airwaves", read the booklet inside the anthology). Sex Pistols also dressed up a certain way, same with the Clash (who had radio singles) and pretty much every other band. So this idea about a bands message being cheapened if they dress a certain way really doesn't make sense when compared to early punk. AND, there is still a healthy, thriving underground punk scene that don't want to get played on the radio or mtv, have no desire to become RICH* (even though they could) and are very DIY (ie: Fugazi, NOFX, every band on No Idea, Plan-it-X, every band not signed to a label, etc.) *Making a living off of music does not necessarily constitute as rich.
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AlmostPunkEnough (December 4, 2005)
you're absolutley right. although i don't consider the Ramones to be punk, regardless of how much future punk tehy influenced. again, it's a lot like Jesus, he wasn't a Christian, but all his followers were. this message board is terrible for 'deep' discussions like this, no matter how much you write you inevitably lose part of your idea just because it can get so long winded. deep down i don't care if people 'sell out' or make money or get rich off of punk, it doesn't concern me. all i can do is respect those bands who have strong ideals and don't compromise them. in no way do i want bands to be destitute, in fact i wish many bands could get the comfortable lifestyle i think they have earned though hard work. as far as the dressing up things goes, it's also not a problem i have, i just find it unneccessary most of the time. if you have a certain schtick and dress

show rest of commentyou're absolutley right. although i don't consider the Ramones to be punk, regardless of how much future punk tehy influenced. again, it's a lot like Jesus, he wasn't a Christian, but all his followers were. this message board is terrible for 'deep' discussions like this, no matter how much you write you inevitably lose part of your idea just because it can get so long winded. deep down i don't care if people 'sell out' or make money or get rich off of punk, it doesn't concern me. all i can do is respect those bands who have strong ideals and don't compromise them. in no way do i want bands to be destitute, in fact i wish many bands could get the comfortable lifestyle i think they have earned though hard work. as far as the dressing up things goes, it's also not a problem i have, i just find it unneccessary most of the time. if you have a certain schtick and dressing up is part of it, be my guest. same if you feel like a mowhawk and bondage pants is 'who you ar'. i'm a pretty laid back guy and i don't care what people do. everyone has some sort of uniform, it's impossible not to. my problem comes with people who TRULY think that dressing like they're in the East Village circa '79 makes them somehow 'punker' than the rest of us. in my opinion, that makes you a sheep.
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BTown (December 4, 2005)

When you talk about original punk, what bands are you talking about? MC5, Clash, Crass? Those were all pretty different. I see punk as a constant evolution whose ideals were either lost or never were. I mean, it was a reaction against hippies, right? But aren't their ideals the same pretty much? It really doesn't matter though, right? It's just music. It gets me through the day. Develops my ideas.

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FuckYouOiOiOi (December 4, 2005)

hippies ideals= peace punks ideals Other than the peace punks (aka: neo-hippies) there are only a few ideals and beliefs that are common amongst the punk scene (ie: anti-racism, anti-establishment*). Everything else depends on the person. How true the person stays to those ideals and beliefs, even in the face of adversity, determines how punk they are. That's why I consider GG Allin the punkest motherfucker ever. *establishment includes: government, corporations, etc. Thats why signing to a major is considered selling out, not because the band is changing their sound to be more accessible, but because by signing to a corporation they are disregarding one of the few common punk ideals (one of the 'commandments' if you will).

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ILOVESCOTT (December 4, 2005)

*establishment includes: government, corporations, etc. Thats why signing to a major is considered selling out, not because the band is changing their sound to be more accessible, but because by signing to a corporation they are disregarding one of the few common punk ideals (one of the 'commandments' if you will). that is why i am having such a tough time figuring out how i feel about anti flag signing to RCA.

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FuckYouOiOiOi (December 4, 2005)

They sold out the punk scene because apparently they feel they need help from a corporation to spread their message (I can believe them when they say its not about money). Simple as that. But, I still love their music, I agree with their ideas (except for that whole 'lets spell woman with a y thing. don't even get me started on that), "Die For The Government" is still an awesome album, and I will buy the new album. I'm not sure if that makes me a sellout too....

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ILOVESCOTT (December 4, 2005)

yeah, its all so contradictory. you don't want to support a massive corporation, but you still want to be loyal to a great band that deserves respect. out of curiosity, what is your take on that women with the "y" thing?

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FuckYouOiOiOi (December 4, 2005)

Its so fucking stupid, the word 'woman' comes from the word 'human' just like the word 'man' comes from 'human'. And even if they fail to see that, how fucking stupid can you be to spell a word differently because you think its sexist. Thats not gonna change shit. Same thing with white people who sing along to a rap song until the word 'nigga' comes up. Not saying a word you believe to be racist isn't going to stop racism and doesn't even necessarily mean that your not racist yourself. Plus even if 'woman' didn't come from 'human' (which it did), I don't believe that the word 'woman' is sexist. Shitzu has the word shit in it but that doesn't mean that its anti-animal-rights.

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ILOVESCOTT (December 4, 2005)

i agree. i understand why they change the spelling, i just don't think it's really going to help all that much. obviously being one myself, i support womens rights, and to a degree, feminism. i think this is just a feeble attempt. its not bad what they're doing, i just think its pretty pointless, and i doubt it will be taken very seriously. you're right, spelling a word differently isn't going to make a chauvinist suddenly respect women, its going to make him think "hey they spelled women wrong, the fucking idiots."

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FuckYouOiOiOi (December 5, 2005)

exactly, there are more clearer examples of sexism that actually affect people.

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ILOVESCOTT (December 5, 2005)

absolutely

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AlmostPunkEnough (December 5, 2005)

your last line is the truth, it's just music. i don't know why it gets me so worked up sometimes. and original punk is any number of bands, i didn't mean to make it sound like i thought it was just one style. all music is evolution, names don't make the songs, i couldn't care less about genres.

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FuckYouOiOiOi (December 4, 2005)

well this is weird cause i agree with everything you just said even though two posts ago i disagreed with everything you said. in conclusion: punx not dead!111!oi!oi!oi!!!1

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AlmostPunkEnough (December 5, 2005)

punk will never really die as long as the bands and fans are free-thinking, something taht can't be said about most punx. but there always will be that faction that keeps it alive, no matter how the music changes.

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deathbyguitar (December 5, 2005)

I think the pope is more punk rock then the casualties. fucking sellout hipsters not steve jones the real bones

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ILOVESCOTT (December 4, 2005)

this only proves CBGB's isn't anywhere near as punk as all the "save CBGB" people would like you to believe. the krome in south amboy just got closed down and there were no benefits, or anything. and that place was 10 times as punk as CBGB's. their shows were like $10 and drinks were like a dollar or two. CBGB's wasn't even all-ages. i love seeing young kids wearing all the bullshit CBGB's shirts and knowing you can't even get into the fucking place until you're 16. it's all just a name and image now.

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AlmostPunkEnough (December 5, 2005)

why are you so much better at putting it simply than i am? i sit here and waste my time babbling bullshit then you come along and sum it up nicely without sounding like a rambling idiot. i hate you.

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ILOVESCOTT (December 5, 2005)

maybe because i'm not drunk?

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AlmostPunkEnough (December 5, 2005)

how dare you. i wasn't even drunk. i was extremely full of chinese food, but not drunk. my alcoholism usualy make me write more good anyway. see? i need a beer right now.

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ILOVESCOTT (December 6, 2005)

i wasnt accusing. there was a question mark. (not that you'd care if i was accusing anyway).

i was just gonna say... "south?"

yes, it's more west than anything, but it sure as fuck ain't north of NYC.

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Someone (December 4, 2005)

You're usually the one who likes to attack people for questioning things' punkness, why the hell do you care about this? This is regarding your comments on the rest of this board, not this particular one. -Will

South West is still south.

uptown where? i don't really give a fuck, but uptown Manhattan is even less punk than Vegas. at least on the Upper East or West sides. you wanna stick that shit in Hamilton Heights or something, not THAT would be punk.

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Someone (December 4, 2005)

I don't know the exact neighborhood, i think somewhere "near" midtown.....but atleast it would still have been in new york city

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Someone (December 4, 2005)

What would be punk if CBGB's moved to the Polo Grounds. I would like to see the punk kids head there in the night. Ramo

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Someone (December 5, 2005)

I say Camden NJ most dangerous city in the US now that would be Punk. Right?

You obviously haven't ben to vegas since 1992

Hahahahahahahahaha

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deathbyguitar (December 5, 2005)

that really wasn't funny. or is this some stupid in joke i don't care about anymore not steve jones the real bones

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David_Arquette (December 5, 2005)

It was how blatantly stupid it was that made it funny. Just to clarify.

first, they already have a legendary punk club in berkely and it would be fucking stupid to put it there. it'd be like competition. Second, its not gonna be in LA.

Possibly because everywhere that punk is still big still have awesome venues. There's like a shit load of them in the Bay. Sure south bay is clubless but I doubt they'd move here. The fact is anywhere but New York wouldn't be home for CBGB's, it's just be out of place. -Dante

come on little dude. It's not that hard to know that Vegas is not in L.A. It's not even in the same state.

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Someone (December 6, 2005)

apparently, this twat never heard of Gilmin st. no legendary punk club in berkely. what a twat!!!

Introducing someone who clearly has no idea what he's talking about... Johnny Thunders is "corporate shit?" Saying stuff like that should get you banned from a punk message board... -Will

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kingofpain (December 4, 2005)

I'm kinda confused, too.

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FuckYouOiOiOi (December 4, 2005)

haha, good one will. i'm waiting to see his response.

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ILOVESCOTT (December 4, 2005)

yeah i thought i mis-read his comment at first

'the' band do have a leanign towards Vegas. The Bouncing Souls, The Dead Kennedys.

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FuckYouOiOiOi (December 4, 2005)

By that theory dead kennedys also have a leaning towards california. and cambodia. and pluto

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Someone (December 5, 2005)

And Marin. Wait.

wow, i just lost all faith in the word "punk" not steve jones the real bones

Wow man what is wrong with you trying to promote a show that would help them out you are such an ass (please take note this is sarcasm)

schools? thats not gonna help tourism.

expanding schools? That's not all that's expanding. Fastest growing housing market in the country is more like it. -an old man.

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Someone (December 5, 2005)

well... right. the two go hand in hand. new residential communities / neighborhoods means more people living there and more families with children and more demand for schools.

it's comparable to the ding dong lounge in new york.

No and that'd be because he'd be doing it as a new whore project. CBGB's has a legacy that has earned it a reputation and a following. It'd be like if Dan Yemin started a sad ass sceamo band and used the name Kid Dynamite, people would flip the fuck out. But if he just used some shitty new name, people would just say it's a shame he sold out. To use the name implies that the venue has something to do with the long running heritage of CBGB's (and implied in that is the history of punk rock). A move to Vegas to be the New Hard Rock is consistant with niether. -Dante

you just found out the secret of like congratulations, you win... A BRAND NEW CAR not steve jones the real bones

If they are that pissed then they won't play the new place and with a bit of luck it might fall flat on it's arse. Andy Visit the Legendary TJ's in Newport instead.

Keep stealing my lines and you'll get the same blind hatered and ignorant comments I do. You've been warned. -Dante