Their self-titled was 3 or 4 albums before the album that song was from. Drastically different sound. Their second album, "A Thought Crushed My Mind" is their best. It's not fantastic, but it rips off Refused really hard, and that makes it fun.

ahh...thought i was 1st, so many words and thoughts?
FEED THE CHRISTIANS TO THE LIONS
and that other kid who was 1st.

Christian is the opposite of punk? What? You must not really know the history of either.

Retard.

thats not really true at all.

if thats a rule that you actually follow...then you are not really thinking for yourself are you

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AmericaRules (August 23, 2006)

Zing


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RightCliqificus (August 23, 2006)

that's a really terrible point you bring up.

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Scruffy (August 23, 2006)

AAAAHHH!!! I typed "you're" instead of "your"!!! I am an idiot.

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Someone (August 23, 2006)

organized religion is the downfall of society, once you label it christian, muslim whatever, you are doomed. christianity is stupid, give up!

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Scruffy (August 23, 2006)

Yes, organized religion sucks. The word "Christian", however, does not mean "follower of Christianity". It means that you believe in Christ, which can be void of any ties to an organized religion. Look past your post-adolescent, reactionary, "I don't have to go to Church now that I'm on my own, Mom, what do you think about that?" pride in yourself and actually read the words I'm typing.

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Someone (August 23, 2006)

i am 34, moved out of my house when i was 17, born and raised a christian, christians and christianity are stupid, take it from me. Christianity means more than believing in Christ, I believe that there was a Christ, sure, I believe there was a Hitler also, and a headless horseman, what does this all mean, nothing.

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wrldtallestmike (August 23, 2006)

No, it sounds like you believe there was a Jesus, which is different than saying you believe there was a Christ. I guess maybe you don't understand the religion as well as you thought you did, and maybe that's why you're so angry at it.

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Scruffy (August 23, 2006)
To the guy responding to me: Just because you've been on your own for 17 years doesn't mean that your viewpoint is anything more than reaction to the way you were raised. I find it disheartening that there are 34 year olds with opinions as ill-conceived as yours (note: I am not responding to your religious beliefs, but your opinion on those that have religious beliefs).
To the guy above me: That's exactly what I was going to say. Believing in Jesus as a historical figure is different than believing in Christ. His real name back then was not "Jesus Christ". "Christ" equates to "Messiah". And that's all being a Christian means, is that you accepted Jesus. It doesn't mean you have to follow any man-made religion. If that's what you attach to it, you're wrong. And if the man-made religion is what you're calling stupid, then, to a certain point, I agree with yo

show rest of commentTo the guy responding to me: Just because you've been on your own for 17 years doesn't mean that your viewpoint is anything more than reaction to the way you were raised. I find it disheartening that there are 34 year olds with opinions as ill-conceived as yours (note: I am not responding to your religious beliefs, but your opinion on those that have religious beliefs).
To the guy above me: That's exactly what I was going to say. Believing in Jesus as a historical figure is different than believing in Christ. His real name back then was not "Jesus Christ". "Christ" equates to "Messiah". And that's all being a Christian means, is that you accepted Jesus. It doesn't mean you have to follow any man-made religion. If that's what you attach to it, you're wrong. And if the man-made religion is what you're calling stupid, then, to a certain point, I agree with you.
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RightCliqificus (August 23, 2006)

but being that there's no proof that jesus existed, you ARE following a man made religion, even if you only choose to believe in part of it.

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RightCliqificus (August 23, 2006)
the fact that you see things in such black and white totally negates anything else you might say. just because you're not religious doesn't make you an atheist. you had zero good points in that entire rant. thats cool, but you need to train your mind to stop thinking in binary (an unfortunate side affect of the religious system). honestly, while i think atheism is respectable, it is still a belief system. why can't people admit that they honestly don't know what's out there. hence, agnosticism (the third option you completely forgot). religion IS built on close mindedness. it doesn't matter if you end up being right. that's not the point. if you are a christian, its not like it wasn't something YOU came up with. someone introduced you to the idea at some point in your life. it sounded good to you and so you went that route. i'm not knocking you for it, but being religious DOES

show rest of commentthe fact that you see things in such black and white totally negates anything else you might say. just because you're not religious doesn't make you an atheist. you had zero good points in that entire rant. thats cool, but you need to train your mind to stop thinking in binary (an unfortunate side affect of the religious system). honestly, while i think atheism is respectable, it is still a belief system. why can't people admit that they honestly don't know what's out there. hence, agnosticism (the third option you completely forgot). religion IS built on close mindedness. it doesn't matter if you end up being right. that's not the point. if you are a christian, its not like it wasn't something YOU came up with. someone introduced you to the idea at some point in your life. it sounded good to you and so you went that route. i'm not knocking you for it, but being religious DOES automatically show that you are not fully capable of thinking for yourself. nobody is perfect. obviously there are things that influence all of us, but believing in something there is no actual evidence of just because it sounded like a good idea, or was pounded into your head by an elder, is not thinking for yourself sorry. maybe if you made up your own religion, but you'd have to acknowledge it was made up. you can't acknowledge christianity was made up because it happened thousands of years ago and many generations before you believed it was true and thus transported that ideal down through your family tree.
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RightCliqificus (August 23, 2006)
THE REVISED PROOF-READ VERSION: the fact that you see things in such black and white totally negates anything else you might say. just because you're not religious doesn't make you an atheist. you had zero good points in that entire rant. thats cool, but you need to train your mind to stop thinking in binary (an unfortunate side affect of the religious system). honestly, while i think atheism is respectable, it is still a belief system. why can't people admit that they honestly don't know what's out there. hence, agnosticism (the third option you completely forgot). religion IS built on close mindedness. it doesn't matter if you end up being right. that's not the point. if you are a christian, its not like it was something YOU came up with. someone introduced you to the idea at some point in your life. it sounded good to you and so you went that route. i'm not knocking you for

show rest of commentTHE REVISED PROOF-READ VERSION: the fact that you see things in such black and white totally negates anything else you might say. just because you're not religious doesn't make you an atheist. you had zero good points in that entire rant. thats cool, but you need to train your mind to stop thinking in binary (an unfortunate side affect of the religious system). honestly, while i think atheism is respectable, it is still a belief system. why can't people admit that they honestly don't know what's out there. hence, agnosticism (the third option you completely forgot). religion IS built on close mindedness. it doesn't matter if you end up being right. that's not the point. if you are a christian, its not like it was something YOU came up with. someone introduced you to the idea at some point in your life. it sounded good to you and so you went that route. i'm not knocking you for it, but being religious DOES automatically show that you are not fully capable of thinking for yourself. nobody is perfect. obviously there are things that influence all of us, but believing in something there is no actual evidence of just because it sounded like a good idea, or was pounded into your head by an elder, is not thinking for yourself. sorry. maybe if you made up your own religion, but you'd have to acknowledge it was made up at some point. you can't acknowledge christianity was made up because it happened thousands of years ago and many generations before you believed it was true and thus transported that ideal down through your family tree. if it is true, which it may be, there's NOTHING to show that, so what's the point.
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Scruffy (August 23, 2006)
Seriously, shut up. If you think for a second by reading what I've written that I think in binary and don't acknowledge agnosticism or sheer apathy in regards to belief, you're wrong. Heck, some people might call me an agnostic. My beef is with those who hate those who do believe. Generally, people who wonder what they believe do not fall into that category, so I did not refer to them or speak to them. My whole life is about ambiguity and never seeing things in black and white, but sometimes it's necessary to only acknowledge extremes.
And hey, guess what? Somebody TOLD you about evolution. Somebody TOLD you everything you know. Just because someone told you something doesn't mean that believing it isn't thinking for yourself. Deciding whether or not to believe it is where the thinking for yourself part comes in.
And it's hilarious that you think that

show rest of commentSeriously, shut up. If you think for a second by reading what I've written that I think in binary and don't acknowledge agnosticism or sheer apathy in regards to belief, you're wrong. Heck, some people might call me an agnostic. My beef is with those who hate those who do believe. Generally, people who wonder what they believe do not fall into that category, so I did not refer to them or speak to them. My whole life is about ambiguity and never seeing things in black and white, but sometimes it's necessary to only acknowledge extremes.
And hey, guess what? Somebody TOLD you about evolution. Somebody TOLD you everything you know. Just because someone told you something doesn't mean that believing it isn't thinking for yourself. Deciding whether or not to believe it is where the thinking for yourself part comes in.
And it's hilarious that you think that the entirety of Christianity was just made up and force fed to people. There is plenty of evidence for the things I believe. Sure, it's debatable and not beyond a reasonable doubt, but most evidence falls into those same parameters. The fact that you think all Christians just choose to believe something because it feels good or because it's what they know is cute. Go on thinking you're better because you've decided to give up any philosphical thought.
But you were told what punk was. The ideals of punk and everything that goes along with it were around before you aligned yourself with them. Does that mean you're not thinking for yourself to align yourself with it? Or does it mean that aligning yourself with something organized before you doesn't mean you aren't thinking for yourself. "But Scruffy, " you say, "the ideals of punk would be good ideas for independent thinkers to hold free of any organization, and even before there was a word to hold them together". Exactly.
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Scruffy (August 23, 2006)

Sorry, but what you said really bothers me.
I promise you, if it came off that I share the binary thought most Christians do, it's not true. I try to see everything from everyone's perspective. I am able to separate my political beliefs from my personal beliefs.
That idea of everything is one way or the other is one of the biggest reasons that I don't like the Church. It has bothered me ever since I can remember.
The only reason I did speak about Christians and atheists without mention of an inbetween is that, generally, the people in between tend not to care, as, if they're not sure which direction is the right one, how can any be condemned?

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Scruffy (August 23, 2006)

Haha, I guess I did argue with it.

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Someone (August 23, 2006)

You religious fucks are just a bunch of pussies who have to believe some fantasy because you can't accept that when you die, YOU'RE DONE. Religion is nothing more than group psychosis.

I'm sure as fuck not mad about the Santa Claus thing being untrue. And I am NOT looking for some kind of meaning. You people who believe in god are flattering yourselves. if there was a god, why would it be the least bit interested in you, you worm.

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Scruffy (August 23, 2006)

We're a bunch of pussies, huh? You tell me which is scarier: the thought that, once you die, that's it, or the thought that every single thing you do throughout life is of eternal significance, and that you will NEVER die. Eternity scares the hell out of me, so much more than the idea that it might one day all end.

Great use of sweeping generalization.

First of all, that's because people like you come on here and have to show off how highschool atheist you are. Wow, you don't believe in god? I'm shocked! Your mom is totally going to be pissed, dude.

Second, if you're happy about being atheist, you are immature and reactionary. It's not a joyful set of beliefs. I'm an atheist, and I find it horrifying that there's no god, because, like any person who examines their own life at all, I realize that I'm not smart enough to do this on my own.

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PUNKTED (August 23, 2006)

Give me a break. You aren't smart thats for sure. I don't consider myself an atheist or a religious person. Everyone around you is lying and making up stories and theories. If you were smart then you would Start doing this on your own!
A joyful thing is knowing that everything I do and where I am is because of what I have done, not someone elses plan for me.
And for the immature thing: Your a stupidface.


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Scruffy (August 23, 2006)

Yeah, the funny thing is you think you're all smart because our links are the same. That's the bassist in my band, dude, not me.

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Pope_Skeletor (August 24, 2006)
Bullshit. If you didn't consider yourself an atheist or a religious person, you wouldn't care if other people did. But you took it upon yourself to attack Christians who are punk. You're just one more highschool atheist. I may not be smart, but I'm not dumb enough to pretend that I'm sure about what nobody can be.

But, I guess if I were smart, I would do what everyone else is doing and lie and make up stories, right? So, basically, I should make up my own stories instead of believing stories other people do? So (taking what you said and boiling it down to a non-stupid sentence), it's cool to be deluded, as long as you're a deluded nonconformist. How very punx of you.

Speaking of delusions, if you believe that everything you do and where you are is because of what you have done, and not because of the circumstances into which you were born

show rest of commentBullshit. If you didn't consider yourself an atheist or a religious person, you wouldn't care if other people did. But you took it upon yourself to attack Christians who are punk. You're just one more highschool atheist. I may not be smart, but I'm not dumb enough to pretend that I'm sure about what nobody can be.

But, I guess if I were smart, I would do what everyone else is doing and lie and make up stories, right? So, basically, I should make up my own stories instead of believing stories other people do? So (taking what you said and boiling it down to a non-stupid sentence), it's cool to be deluded, as long as you're a deluded nonconformist. How very punx of you.

Speaking of delusions, if you believe that everything you do and where you are is because of what you have done, and not because of the circumstances into which you were born, then kudos for being an idiot. Believing in your own absolute freedom is possibly the only thing that I can think of that makes less since than an all knowing god.

And for the immature thing: You mispelled "you're" when you were calling me stupid.
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PUNKTED (August 24, 2006)

Ok bottom line is a true punk band wouldn't sing about god is good god is great. Therefore, you may play punk rock chords with punk rock distortion playing shows with other punk rockers, but in the end its not punk. Not punk. A christian punk band is a rock band playing three chords on four strings but not playing punk. Sorry thems the facts.
So You Are a Stupid Face.

Jesus was the David Koresh of his time.

shut up faggot

they arent. they have actually stated that they are NOT a christian band, just a band whose members have to be christian. labels are stupid, though who they hell cares.

I find it funny that many more people will hate a band for being christian than for being satanic

just listen to the music if its not for you then move on.