Turn those flags back upContributed by an Anonymous Source. Posted by Scott on Thursday, September 13, 2001 at 9:01 PM (EDT)
"I know you said no more reactions, but eh. It's been circulating around the internet and my school and frankly I think it's momentus. I saw something today I rarely thought I'd see, the punks at my school turned their flag patches back up, I "fixed" mine today as well and I'm going to keep it there. I urge you to do the same, for one week, lets not see any upside down flags on our jackets and bags. It's not what we need now."
Good for you guys, this shows there's more to all of us than just attitude. Respect for the dead is one thing; Nationalism is another. Nationalism which has been at the root of many wars, and it looks like many more to come. I highly recommend reading this article published in ZMag by Noam Chomsky, whom you may know of from his involvement with the G7 Welcoming Committee. His views sum up my own on the aftermath of this subject. - Shindo Rants! (123 comments)
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BenWalklor (September 13, 2001)
Are you fucking kidding me? This is NOT the time for blind patriotism. This is NOT the time where we passively give into our leaders. This is the time where we try to seek out what is best for the the country and best for the world. The American government is probably about to bomb the shit out of people throughout the world (no doubt killing innocent civilians, just as those who have died in NY) and you want to show your support of that by turning your fucking flag right side up? You want the blood on your hands? Fuck that! This is the time where we stand up and say, "No more killing of civilians!"
And why the fuck would you have your flag turned down in the first place if you didn't believe that something was seriously wrong with America? Right now more than ever things are about to become even more seriously fucked up in America. Keep your fucking flags where they show rest of commentAre you fucking kidding me? This is NOT the time for blind patriotism. This is NOT the time where we passively give into our leaders. This is the time where we try to seek out what is best for the the country and best for the world. The American government is probably about to bomb the shit out of people throughout the world (no doubt killing innocent civilians, just as those who have died in NY) and you want to show your support of that by turning your fucking flag right side up? You want the blood on your hands? Fuck that! This is the time where we stand up and say, "No more killing of civilians!" And why the fuck would you have your flag turned down in the first place if you didn't believe that something was seriously wrong with America? Right now more than ever things are about to become even more seriously fucked up in America. Keep your fucking flags where they are. And more importantly, fight for social and WORLDWIDE justice.
BenWalklor (September 13, 2001)
And if you want to learn more about the situation, read a little. Honor the victims by finding out a little more about the history... From Ramsey Clark's International Action Center http://www.iacenter.org/sept11_stmnt.htm Michael Moore: http://www.michaelmoore.com/2001_0912.html Noam Chomsky: http://www.zmag.org/chomnote.htm Robert Fisk: http://www.zmag.org/fiskawecalam.htm And the very radical MSNBC: http://www.msnbc.com/news/190144.asp
JimmyArndt (September 13, 2001)
hey dickhead, something is seriously wrong with america, but out of a little bit of fuckin respect for the victims (and they are victims you fuck) the flags are going up the right way. we do need to follow the leaders now, and trust them to make the right decision. hopefully they will. that decision should be to find out whos responsible for this shit, and bomb the fuck out of them. if its a country, we bomb the military of that country. hopefully we won't kill a single civilian. but that will probably happen, and thats too bad. we MUST seek a course of action in retaliation for these attacks.
Someone (September 14, 2001)
fuck you. i dont think that any of the people that died on tuesday were named america, so if you wanna show respect for the victims why dont you learn some of their names and put that on your jacket. and also i would like to know if you plan on joining the army in order to "bomb the fuck" out of whoever is responsible for this horrible act? or are you just sayin that out of fear and anger? i think you should go play some football to get some of your aggression out you jock. next time think before you speak.
icK-x-Strife (September 14, 2001)
If you want to show respect for those victims then keep your flag upside-down. It was america that MADE, yes MADE terrorists like Bin-Laden.
Our oppressive government was slowly taking over afganistan after the Soviet/Afgan war ended. A new leader was put into place but out of fear of the US he became little more than a puppet for american interest. America didn't even help out afganistan for the sake of humanity. They helped out afganistan just to get back at the Soviets.
Anyways, people like Bin-Laden started to rise to power in the underworld of Afganistan and they began to organize terrorist groups. Seems to me that if this "great nation" (quote: Bush on the news) haden't been oppressing those people then they would never have needed to resort to killing innocents as payback.
Look into the situation and not just soak in that patriotic bullshit on CNN. Then you might reali show rest of commentIf you want to show respect for those victims then keep your flag upside-down. It was america that MADE, yes MADE terrorists like Bin-Laden. Our oppressive government was slowly taking over afganistan after the Soviet/Afgan war ended. A new leader was put into place but out of fear of the US he became little more than a puppet for american interest. America didn't even help out afganistan for the sake of humanity. They helped out afganistan just to get back at the Soviets. Anyways, people like Bin-Laden started to rise to power in the underworld of Afganistan and they began to organize terrorist groups. Seems to me that if this "great nation" (quote: Bush on the news) haden't been oppressing those people then they would never have needed to resort to killing innocents as payback. Look into the situation and not just soak in that patriotic bullshit on CNN. Then you might realize what really is going on. " bomb the fuck out of them " ... Oh so you support war? You're no punk. Get the fuck outa here. - icK-x-Strife
Someone (September 15, 2001)
maybe this country did something to deserve this bombing (even though i really don't think so). but these people didn't. there is no justification for murder. especially not of this magnitude. i don't care if some country is screwing yours over, you don't kill their citizens. i'm all for getting the people who did this, but i don't want this country to become a massive hypocrite by turning around and killing civilians over there. personally, i think it is respectful of the victims to turn your upside down flags up. even if you don't like what the government is doing, this is really a time to band together and be positive. flipping your flag into it's proper position doesn't have to mean you support the government. it means you support the country and the people in it. it means we are all standing together as one, putting aside our differences and helping each other show rest of commentmaybe this country did something to deserve this bombing (even though i really don't think so). but these people didn't. there is no justification for murder. especially not of this magnitude. i don't care if some country is screwing yours over, you don't kill their citizens. i'm all for getting the people who did this, but i don't want this country to become a massive hypocrite by turning around and killing civilians over there. personally, i think it is respectful of the victims to turn your upside down flags up. even if you don't like what the government is doing, this is really a time to band together and be positive. flipping your flag into it's proper position doesn't have to mean you support the government. it means you support the country and the people in it. it means we are all standing together as one, putting aside our differences and helping each other get through this.
Someone (September 21, 2001)
You are such a dumbass. You sound like a fucking hick. "The flags are going up the right way...bomb the fuck out of them" man, you're just as bad as the rest of 'em.
Someone (September 13, 2001)
What the fuck is the matter with you? thousands of People die and you wont even flip the god damn patch on your bag or jacket? If you want to personally beleive waht you said go all for it but you can at least keep it to your self for a couple of days simply out of respect. And on the subject of retaliating to this, FUCK YES we should bomb the shit out of who ever had anything to do with this because if we don't, that's gonna tell all of the rest of those psychos that the U.S. are a bunch of pussies that you can walk all over and shit like this will be happening alot more often.
punky (September 14, 2001)
You already showed off you macho shit with Japan,Middle east,Panama,Balkans,China... so you are anything but the pussies.Your military would have bombed them anyway, at least now they have a public support for doing it.
seek (September 14, 2001)
he isnt saying we shouldnt attack, he is saying he knows fully well that america is about to not only attack the enemy, but kill thousands of civilians. he makes the point that showing blind patriotism does not show support for these victims. stop seeing people as the country they are in, people only seem to care when innocents die in their own country. this was one of the saddest days in my life, but i care equally about innocents that die or may die everywhere. i support dismantling these terrorist networks from their roots all the way to the various branches, to the people who carry out these actions that are the leaves on the 'tree of terrorism', but we must not bomb innocents. show support for innocent people and injustice, not necessarily, and certainly not blindly or only, for your country.
icK-x-Strife (September 14, 2001)
You didn't care when thousands of innocents died in Desert Storm, Panama, or Palestine. Don't try and act like you care now. - icK-x-Strife Oh wait ...... maybe you do care. After all these were americans. So that makes them more important. (much sarcasm)
Someone (September 13, 2001)
Hey man the upside down flag may mean something is wrong with America, but for at least tomorrow it would be appropriate to turn the flags back right side up out of respect to those killed, to show solidarity with the families and friends of the victims, and to make sure you don't piss anyone off on that certain day. People will be more noticing and more hostile toward seeing an upside down flag tomorrow. Just for this one day forget about everything that you think is fucked up about the country, and just try to show respect for those who have lost their lives.
Someone (September 14, 2001)
FUCK YOU, no one is telling you to be blindly patriotic, show your compassion for those that have suffered, and show your support to those that are trying to save lives, that is what wearing the flag right side up means. FUCK YOU and your presumptions about what the US is going to bomb. You cannot be serious in your attempts to defend those who have done this, and by saying that the US had this coming, FUCK YOU. Go fuck yourself, take your second rate punk rock, via progpaghandi education and go read a fucking book at the public library. By the way Noam Chomsky, is an ignorant fuck, he doesn't know what people have to go through, and he assumes that all people are good, they aren't get that through both of your fucking thick skulls. I have grown up around the wya the world works, the way politics functions, and this is not the way things work. It doesn't matter show rest of commentFUCK YOU, no one is telling you to be blindly patriotic, show your compassion for those that have suffered, and show your support to those that are trying to save lives, that is what wearing the flag right side up means. FUCK YOU and your presumptions about what the US is going to bomb. You cannot be serious in your attempts to defend those who have done this, and by saying that the US had this coming, FUCK YOU. Go fuck yourself, take your second rate punk rock, via progpaghandi education and go read a fucking book at the public library. By the way Noam Chomsky, is an ignorant fuck, he doesn't know what people have to go through, and he assumes that all people are good, they aren't get that through both of your fucking thick skulls. I have grown up around the wya the world works, the way politics functions, and this is not the way things work. It doesn't matter what US foreign policy is, there are forces that will always want to harm us, and forces that will always prey on the innocent. It is about time the US decides that it will do nothing but erradicate these forces, with as little harm to innocents as possible. Once you have learned sommething that does not come from a cd or some propaghanda come back and talk to me, email, s-balach@northwestern.edu, that is right i go to a fucking smart school, why because i ask why and am original, and don't spout someone else's bullshit. You ever see that scene in good will hunting at the bar? I am will, adn you are that fuck. Don't ever call yourself punk till you are educated. Ignorance is not bliss even if it is righteous. PS- my name is Serdj
Someone (September 14, 2001)
Noam Chomsky isn't the ignorant fuck. He presents his view of the world and quite openly suggests that people go pursue other views as well; don't JUST take his word for it. The ignorant fucks are the ones that hang on his every word as some sort of political bible. The reality of our world is far more complex than Mr. Chomsky's views, or any single other set of views. You can study world views from either end of the spectrum to the other and back and find little bits of truth, little bits of insight every step along the way.
punky (September 14, 2001)
I'm one of the rare people on this site that has gone through war (1992-1995 Balkans).And now I hate my and every other country in the World. I really think you should go and fight for your country, you seem to be the type.Good luck.
legaltoxic (September 14, 2001)
apparently, this anonymous kid who think "fixing" the flag shows some respect to the dead, he needs to check his brain. the problem we face here is not from another country attack (at least it's not proven yet), it's not about some martians trying to invade the US, it's about terrorism. it's something we all fucking hate, and now you're thinking that "americans" should unite to fight terrorism? i don't think so whoopy, i think we as earth civilians should fight terrorism together. fbi and bush knows no better than you. what caused the tragedy was america's fault, because the gov't acted like a dick to everyone, and once the US is bombed, everyone thinks it's other countries fault. look dude, media is biased, don't go to some christian or jews website like cnn, time, and all those junks. if you think you can blame the muslims, then go to some of their websites so you hopefully co show rest of commentapparently, this anonymous kid who think "fixing" the flag shows some respect to the dead, he needs to check his brain. the problem we face here is not from another country attack (at least it's not proven yet), it's not about some martians trying to invade the US, it's about terrorism. it's something we all fucking hate, and now you're thinking that "americans" should unite to fight terrorism? i don't think so whoopy, i think we as earth civilians should fight terrorism together. fbi and bush knows no better than you. what caused the tragedy was america's fault, because the gov't acted like a dick to everyone, and once the US is bombed, everyone thinks it's other countries fault. look dude, media is biased, don't go to some christian or jews website like cnn, time, and all those junks. if you think you can blame the muslims, then go to some of their websites so you hopefully could see things from their perpective and understand that OSAMA IS THE VICTIM OF US GOV'T ARROGANCE. i advise you to stop wearing that flag, any punk bands t shirt (especially anti-flag, propagandhi and the unseen), stop listening to punk, and start checkin out britney spears. she's hot yo, even bush drools at her. benwalklor said it right, fight for social and worldwide justice.
RecipeForHate (September 14, 2001)
I show respect for the victims....We had a 3 minute silence at school...I thought about the victims.....They're people....Not a fuckin government with a stupid flag,who brought this attack on itself...Sure it's outrageous and intolerable.....Very sad day for the world indeed,but i refuse to turn my flagpatch back up,cause i don't support a government who is about to kill innocent people....Just like those terrorists.....If they do that.....What's the difference between the US and those terrorists??
Someone (September 20, 2001)
stick to what you believe keep the flag upside down!!! show respect to the victims they are innocent people who have nothing to do with this but if you what to blame someone for this blame the u.s the goverment has killed millions of innocent people in nicaragua, chile, panama, palestine, iraq (bombing occur almost every day "to fight for peace"), vietnam, etc a lot of people are dying in cuba because the u.s has them blocked third world countries have no food and a poor economy because of the imperialist regime of the usa fuck the usa and for thise dumbasses that think they are punx that think the solution for this is more violence are a bunch of idiots that have no ideas of their own and think the bush's solution is the right one
Someone (September 14, 2001)
the government acted like a dick to everyone? if i remember correctly, it has been the american government helping out other countries time and time again. after WWII it was the american government that put billions of dollars into europe to help rebuild their economies. and think of all the natural disasters in third world countries. who gives them financial aid and relief? and yet the u.s. has never asked for a penny back. a dick to everyone? i think not.
Someone (October 15, 2001)
After World War Two...Wsnt it the government who drove muslims out of thier holy land which has been thiersfor hundreds of years and gave it to the jewish?
Someone (September 14, 2001)
osama is the victim of no one. He is a spoiled multi-millionare. He has no excuse. None whatsoever. These terrorists believe that what they are doing is holy. You cannot reason with someone who truly believes that they are working for god.
icK-x-Strife (September 14, 2001)
A spoiled multi-millionare? Hardly. All of his funds go to his cause. If they have no reason "whatsoever" to attack the US then I suggest going to afganistan to live under US oppression. Things look much different from the other side of the fence. - icK-x-Strife
Someone (September 14, 2001)
You obviously dont know half has much has you think you do. I dont care how much he spends on his cause he is going to always have a shit load of money. He was given 250 million dollars of inherentence when he got kicked out of Saudi Arabi. How long did you spend in spend over in the middle east? You seem to know everything. Maybe you should quit your little high school classes and go out in the real world and learn the facts!!!!!!
Someone (September 14, 2001)
how many fuckin times have you been to afghanistan? if anything there the policies they live under are the result of russia and have little to do with america. if you hate the country that treated you so well your entie privileged life why don't you fuckin move and see how it is in less free societies.
icK-x-Strife (September 15, 2001)
I don't give a flying fuck how free I am in America. Ever hear the saying "No one is free when others are oppressed" ?? - icK-x-Strife
legaltoxic (September 14, 2001)
hah, you "patriot nationalist punks" are sad. did you say FACTS? what kinda facts did you get from BUSH OR FBI??? oh yea, if anyone attack the US gov't, it's against democracy, always like that. if anyone's against the US, they're wrong and they're anti-democracy, and you call that a fact? now why don't you read some US' action against the afghanistan, the palestine, and iraq. do you know more than 5 million innocent children were dead because of those stupid sanction? but who knows? well it is kinda well known but it's not well recognized. and the US (please note if i say the US i refer to the gov't not necesarily the people) is so racist that whenever a bombing happen, they always blame osama (like the oklahoma bombing, which later they found out it wasn't related to him at all). osama fights the zionists in the middle east. but the zionists control the media, and what we w show rest of commenthah, you "patriot nationalist punks" are sad. did you say FACTS? what kinda facts did you get from BUSH OR FBI??? oh yea, if anyone attack the US gov't, it's against democracy, always like that. if anyone's against the US, they're wrong and they're anti-democracy, and you call that a fact? now why don't you read some US' action against the afghanistan, the palestine, and iraq. do you know more than 5 million innocent children were dead because of those stupid sanction? but who knows? well it is kinda well known but it's not well recognized. and the US (please note if i say the US i refer to the gov't not necesarily the people) is so racist that whenever a bombing happen, they always blame osama (like the oklahoma bombing, which later they found out it wasn't related to him at all). osama fights the zionists in the middle east. but the zionists control the media, and what we watch everyday are zionists propaganda. did ya just say open your eyes? sure he hates americans, but also other countless terrorists. and plus he lives iin a mountain and the official of afghanistans said there was no phone or tv there, so how could do.... ah fuck, i don't feel like explaining. just get the facts straight about your enemy and your friend. ick-x-strife said it exactly right "things look much different from the other side of the fence"
Someone (September 14, 2001)
Osama isn't the victim, he's doing this out some retarded religous conquest, since America defiled his "Sacred" land, he won't stop until America is out of the Middle East. So you know, he'll go kill 25,000 innocent people, for some bullshit religous idea, and he's the victim? Sure.
RecipeForHate (September 14, 2001)
That's why they don't need money to help rebuild things or shit like that.....With that defense budget america has....You could rebuild a whole fuckin country....
Someone (September 14, 2001)
You sir are a complete fucking dolt. Now is not the time to find fault with our government. We could all be dead tomorrow and need to stick together on this one. Politics, scandals, PETA -- it's all fucking irrelevant. You can bitch and moan about all your petty causes, but right now I stand proud as an American. People are going to die. Both overseas and no doubt more on our own soil. We cannot allow this to continue. There is no peaceful way of going about this. So stop being a fucking hippy, get Jerry Garcia's dick outta your mouth and pull your finger from your ass and get with the picture.
sickboi (chris) (September 14, 2001)
Right-fucking-on.
Someone (September 14, 2001)
I agree 100% I get the feeling that alot of the people opposed to the US on this website are ignorant kids.
Someone (September 14, 2001)
Right on, I'm sure some are well educated, mature people with radical views, I can respect that. I have some of my own. But I also sense a lot of 15 year olds that have listening to way too much Propaghandi that suddenly feel they are full fledged anarchists.
Someone (September 15, 2001)
alright i read all these posts and i have taken into consideration a lot of them and a lot of the issues you guys are debating (the flag turning upside down shit) Well first of all i wouldn't personally wear an american flag anywhere on my body (not because i'm "ungrateful" but rather because i refuse to be defined by the land i live on.) I also do not think that wearing an american flag upside down would be disrespectful to the victims..cause lets face it, no one is happy about these bombings except for the oil companies (and the terrorists and their followers, of course.)But lets try to educate ourselves before we come on take a stance on this horrific tragedy.You dont just wake up one day and decide to bomb the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.
I think that this "God Bless America" and "We Stand United" shit is fucking ridiculous. When the fuck are we gonna realize show rest of commentalright i read all these posts and i have taken into consideration a lot of them and a lot of the issues you guys are debating (the flag turning upside down shit) Well first of all i wouldn't personally wear an american flag anywhere on my body (not because i'm "ungrateful" but rather because i refuse to be defined by the land i live on.) I also do not think that wearing an american flag upside down would be disrespectful to the victims..cause lets face it, no one is happy about these bombings except for the oil companies (and the terrorists and their followers, of course.)But lets try to educate ourselves before we come on take a stance on this horrific tragedy.You dont just wake up one day and decide to bomb the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. I think that this "God Bless America" and "We Stand United" shit is fucking ridiculous. When the fuck are we gonna realize that we didn't fucking lose "americans," we lost innocent HUMAN BEINGS.And we lose them every day in different parts of the world. But if they are not "american" the fuck cares? i do not like Bush in any way but i do have to say i feel for the man SIMPLY because this is a very tough position to be put in. Of course we are going to go do the same thing in a different coutry under the label of "victory" or "revenge" yah, that'll be great, we cry when we lose "americans" but a dirty iraqi deserves to die cause he resembles the guy we THINK did it.Which brings me to my other point. If you have watched the fucking ridiculous perceptions of the news (which just like every other "american" i have...i'm not gonna lie)you'll notice that they keep on repeating that the only way you can help (or rather, that is implied) is by donating blood or helping clear out the rubble. What the fuck?? Does anyone not see our fellow "americans" threating our fellow "americans?" (but they are brown and of a different religion than the "typical american" so i guess they are not AS "american")Does anyone not see a problem with that? Innocent muslim/arab people are being harrassed and afraid to go to the place where they worship. We should take a stance and not let these people be a target because of they way that they look. Does anyone remember the japanese concentration camps during the pearl harbor phase of america?(i guess i cant expect too many people to know because i think they forgot that part in our summer's big blockbuster movie "Pearl Harbor") We need to stop the racism that is plaguing our race because if we dont (and this is aimed at you "I love my country and will die for anything my president says" people), you already lost the "war" I think we should stand united not as fucking "americans" but as human beings. if you have made it this far i commend you and let me remind you that i am not some 15 year old anarchist..i am a human being reflecting on what i have witnessed. My heart goes out to anyone who has ever lost anyone in the heat of battle, war, whatever the fuck you wanna call it. i'm sorry that all you are is a statistic of war. thank you.
Someone (September 15, 2001)
that pretty much sums up everything i'm thinking right now. bravo.
legaltoxic (September 15, 2001)
you said it exactly right. let's learn the lesson; that violence hurts people, NOT arabs hurt people. fucking racists should die, that's another lesson.
Someone (September 13, 2001)
do you even realize what the flag upside down mean? It means "Americans in danger and in need of help." You were wearing them right dont forget that please.
Someone (September 13, 2001)
you are an absolute moron. it's pathedic people like you that give americans a bad name...what are you an anarchist??? poser!!! blow me peace
Someone (September 13, 2001)
I sent in that news, anarchist, god no, poser, according to most people, damn straight. I wear my flag upside down to send a message, not all is right under the stars and stripes. And not all is right now. But I'm doing this out of respect, a kid at my school had a mom who was a stewardess on the pentagon plane, what would he think? This is not a punk issue, this is an issue of humanity, and we're a part of that. e-mail me if you wish. moleman63@hotmail.com, please put something distinctive in the subject so I don't trash it by accident.
punky (September 14, 2001)
If a kid at your school lost his mother, then go and tell him that you are there for him and stuff. Only a stuid kid can say, that when he saw the flag, it made him feel better.I lost heaps of my family and friends in war.And I wasn't proud of my country, becuase i know that they killed too, i didn't hate the other side, because i know that there are good people there too.See my point?
Someone (September 14, 2001)
my point is...now you believe in our country but you didn't before??? don't do shit cause you think it's punk. do what you think is right..and it sounds like you're an american so you know what is right. don't defame the american flag because you're image would adhere to it.
Someone (September 14, 2001)
I agree. If you want to make America a better place, don't completely reject it with a symbol of detachment. Being patriotic is different from being nationalistic. Embrace what we have in this country regardless of what you think is wrong here. Politics is about differing oppinions and compromise anyway. Respect America and what it is, then try to improve it.
seek (September 14, 2001)
bahaha you are the smelliest turd i ever spoke to, an hell... i didnt even speak to you. that says a fucking lot, doesnt it, turd boy.
Someone (September 14, 2001)
I really don't understand why everyone is saying America deserved this. Out of any country in the world i would rather live in no other. People say that we deserved this well no one deserves any tradgey. Perhaps we have wronged countries in the past. But no country deserves this. If people do not like the united states then when you're 18 and if you are as soon as they open boarders get the fuck out and don't let the door hit you on your ass in the way out. This is a time to unite not to complain and say we deserved this. They have no only attacked our stronghold they have also attacked you. You live here and that city was as much yours as it was the people who died it just happened that you weren't there. I would be proud to serve my country if it came down to war cause not only have they given you a place to live and freedom. We live here and the least we can show rest of commentI really don't understand why everyone is saying America deserved this. Out of any country in the world i would rather live in no other. People say that we deserved this well no one deserves any tradgey. Perhaps we have wronged countries in the past. But no country deserves this. If people do not like the united states then when you're 18 and if you are as soon as they open boarders get the fuck out and don't let the door hit you on your ass in the way out. This is a time to unite not to complain and say we deserved this. They have no only attacked our stronghold they have also attacked you. You live here and that city was as much yours as it was the people who died it just happened that you weren't there. I would be proud to serve my country if it came down to war cause not only have they given you a place to live and freedom. We live here and the least we can do is defend our land. People can say well its war and i don't believe in it. That's BS cause war will always exist you have to accept it and win it so that you can survive. Who ever was responsible for this should be caught and killed cause they are a threat to our country and our lives. I personally think Bush has done a great job so far. For the first time i'm actually proud to say that he's our president. But like i said if you think america deserved this and you want your anarchy and upside down flags then get the fuck out of our country cause we don't need you. Its like Anti Flag if they want to bitch and moan about america then move the fuck out cause i'm tired of hearing it. No matter what comes in our way we will prevail.
Someone (September 14, 2001)
anti flag bitch and moan to change things for the better.
punky (September 14, 2001)
You country fights wars outside the US, thousands of km away...and you still would go and fight for your country,thats more like invading...this is a rare occasion that something striked America. And who gives a fuck, go and die for your country. American is the biggest killer in the World anyway.Economy is in your hands my friend! Patriotism sucks!Nationalism sucks!
Someone (September 14, 2001)
all the anti-americans on this board should take their anti-flag/propagandhi brain washed minds and get out of here. we're pretty damn lucky here in america and we need to remember that. if you think we have it bad, go live in a third world country where you have nothing. or try a communist nation where you're told where to shop and what to read and watch. sure the u.s. government may be hypocritical at times and it may seem unjust other times but i wouldn't want to live anywhere else. if you truly don't like america, quit bitching and leave.
Someone (September 14, 2001)
right on !!!
icK-x-Strife (September 14, 2001)
I'm not going anywhere. I would much rather stay and fight. Maybe you should bitch more. If enough people do then it will get things changed. - icK-x-Strife
Someone (September 15, 2001)
you fuckin dork. how is telling people with different views that they are unwelcome in any way an american value?
Someone (December 22, 2001)
go fucking read noam chomsky
icK-x-Strife (September 14, 2001)
Well seems like they did a fine job of brainwashing you. Go die for the american government ... see if they care. - icK-x-Strife
Someone (September 14, 2001)
your country fails you and everyone in your country and you decide its time to have more respect for your country? i don't get it
Someone (September 14, 2001)
My country hasn't failed me, humanity has failed me because, as much as everyone brings up the bad our country does to others no one seems to mention the good. I'm stealing this from the guttermouth site and they got it from somewhere else, take some time to read it.
TRIBUTE TO THE UNITED STATES
This, from a Canadian newspaper, is worth sharing.
America: The Good Neighbor. Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television Commentator. What follows is the full text of his trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional Record:
"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the show rest of commentMy country hasn't failed me, humanity has failed me because, as much as everyone brings up the bad our country does to others no one seems to mention the good. I'm stealing this from the guttermouth site and they got it from somewhere else, take some time to read it. TRIBUTE TO THE UNITED STATES This, from a Canadian newspaper, is worth sharing. America: The Good Neighbor. Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television Commentator. What follows is the full text of his trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional Record: "This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States. When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it. When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped. The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans. I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American Planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon - not once, but several times - and safely home again. You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here. When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke. I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake. Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those." Stand proud, America! Wear it proudly!!
Shindo (adam) (September 14, 2001)
THAT IS A HOAX... DONT TRUST THE INTERNET:
This is from a Canadian Newspaper:
Historic Canadian broadcast resurfaces in wake of tragedy
Reuters News Agency
Words of praise for the United States spoken more than 30 years ago by a Canadian broadcaster flew around the Internet Thursday, fooling but providing comfort for the many who thought it was penned in response to Tuesday's tragic attacks by hijacked airliners.
An electronic version of The Americans, which was originally broadcast by the late Gordon Sinclair, was E-mailed under the guise of a recent editorial — despite the fact Mr. Sinclair died in 1984 and wrote the script in 1973 at the end of the Vietnam War.
"Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast... by Gordon Sinclair," the E-mail said in its introduction to the script.
In the script, Mr. Sinclair praised th show rest of commentTHAT IS A HOAX... DONT TRUST THE INTERNET: This is from a Canadian Newspaper: Historic Canadian broadcast resurfaces in wake of tragedy Reuters News Agency Words of praise for the United States spoken more than 30 years ago by a Canadian broadcaster flew around the Internet Thursday, fooling but providing comfort for the many who thought it was penned in response to Tuesday's tragic attacks by hijacked airliners. An electronic version of The Americans, which was originally broadcast by the late Gordon Sinclair, was E-mailed under the guise of a recent editorial — despite the fact Mr. Sinclair died in 1984 and wrote the script in 1973 at the end of the Vietnam War. "Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast... by Gordon Sinclair," the E-mail said in its introduction to the script. In the script, Mr. Sinclair praised the United States, calling it "the most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth." Many Americans applauded Mr. Sinclair on Web sites that carried his message. "My thanks to Gordon Sinclair for his powerful and thought provoking words. For me, and I hope for you, his words bring back a little of the pride we used to have in being an American," one person wrote on a U.S. Web site. "What a refreshing article. Thank you... Gordon Sinclair," another E-mail respondent said. Mr. Sinclair said: "I can name you 5,000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? ... They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those." Canadian broadcast-journalist Betty Kennedy, who was a friend of Mr. Sinclair's, said he wrote the radio speech in response to reports that the American Red Cross was on the verge of bankruptcy. "He was so incensed by this," Ms. Kennedy said. He wrote the speech in five minutes and immediately read it over the radio. "The response from it was absolutely unbelievable," she recalled. "The thing absolutely snowballed." Ms. Kennedy said she believed the transcript resurfaced, which won wide play in the United States at the time, because it spoke well of the American people. "It was so warm-hearted... At a time of terrible trouble...they probably need to remember that."
Someone (September 14, 2001)
that is a 20 year old piece of propaganda
Someone (September 14, 2001)
Friday Night at 7:00 p.m. step out your door, stop your car, or step out of your establishment and light a candle. We will show the world that Americans are strong and united together against terrorism. Please pass this to everyone on your e-mail list. We need to reach everyone across the United States quickly. The message: WE STAND UNITED - WE WILL NOT TOLERATE TERRORISM! Thank you. We need press to cover this - we need the world to see.
icK-x-Strife (September 14, 2001)
Burning candles? I would much rather burn a flag. - icK-x-Strife
Someone (September 14, 2001)
your a fucking idiot. go get your mommy and tell her you want to live in a different country. try somewhere in the middle east maybe one of them us bombs will hit you. we can only hope. people like you make this situation worse. how old are you? my guess would be about 14.
Someone (September 14, 2001)
Yeah junior, glad to see you can maintain your "image" even at a time like this. Yeah, go walk down the street burning a flag. You inconsiderate fuck.
icK-x-Strife (September 15, 2001)
That was a joke you spastic patriots. - icK-x-Strife
punky (September 14, 2001)
heheh, thats just stupid, my friend... Did you ever stop to think that too much pride equals hate...?Patriotism=Nationalism! That flag didn't represent the people that died. I would never wear a flag of my country on my shirt, those who had it upside down and now turned it the right way shouldn't tell others to do that too...we can figure things for ourselves and make our own decisions
Someone (September 14, 2001)
in many countries you would be killed for saying stuff like that. Think about that.
seek (September 14, 2001)
so we should be proud that our country doesnt do such things? to not kill people for saying things is a total obvious trait any civilized country has, it is a prerequisit to such, countries should not be congradulated for this as it is unspeakable for one to kill another over such matters. our country does so many bad things, i dont think you even begin to understand. this, however, does not mean those people deserved, no one does. blind nationalism is the cause of many wars, just look at World War I, that was the main cause. supporting your country in a time of need, however, is ok, but this doesnt mean sporting the flag and singing star-spangled anthems.
punky (September 14, 2001)
I'm not in USA...I'm in Australia. Think about that. Just because your country's laws inside your borders are better then in majority of the other countrys doesn't make it a good country for the countrys outside.Think about that.
Someone (September 14, 2001)
this is the exact mentality that the upside down flag represents. if you change it for a week, a day, or even an hour because you feel like a "bad" person or a "target" then you missed the point to begin with. you wanna stand up for your beliefs, only as long as nobody challenges you. sad. forget your lame punk uniform that we all have, forget the "shocking" hair styles that lost all shock value by 1981, and keep the one symbol that means something intact. wear the upside cown flag because you love your country enough to fight to make it better.
Someone (September 14, 2001)
All of you people are absolutely fucked.
America has been bleeding on the inside since the beginning.
As long as no one can get along, you guys are screwed.
You all waste your time bitching about what is wrong with your country and government. For those that don't like your freedom, I suggest you move to another country. Seriously, there has got to be at least one country out there where you will find a lot less things to bitch about. Find it and move. Then wear the flag however you want, you can even shove it upyour ass.
Respect you fellow man.........that is the bottom line. Think about others for one fucking second of your insignificant life. Maybe if more of you did this and created an environment in which that became a normal thought process, your government wouldn't be so corrupt. Maybe the next generations wouldn't be so fucked up if they thought about others before them show rest of commentAll of you people are absolutely fucked. America has been bleeding on the inside since the beginning. As long as no one can get along, you guys are screwed. You all waste your time bitching about what is wrong with your country and government. For those that don't like your freedom, I suggest you move to another country. Seriously, there has got to be at least one country out there where you will find a lot less things to bitch about. Find it and move. Then wear the flag however you want, you can even shove it upyour ass. Respect you fellow man.........that is the bottom line. Think about others for one fucking second of your insignificant life. Maybe if more of you did this and created an environment in which that became a normal thought process, your government wouldn't be so corrupt. Maybe the next generations wouldn't be so fucked up if they thought about others before themselves. I am sick and tired of hearing people who complain about where they reside when their country PROVIDES them with the FREEDOM to leave at any time they want. Take some time to realize in your selfishness that there are government's that shoot their citizens for trying to leave. Get up and go, you will surely not be missed. Go discuss your sand castles in some other country. LESS TALK MORE ROCK!!!!
Someone (September 14, 2001)
Um, why should I leave and not you? Why are you more american than me? Supporting a government does not mean your more american. During the french revolution, were the revolutionaries less french or more french than any up till then? Americans are united by being within a border, not an economic or governmental system of policies and meetings.
I'm not leaving this country because its just as much mine as yours. And Im going to make it the way it should be. I'm not going to just pack up and run, because motherfucker thats UNAMERICAN (nyuk nyuk), and maybe thats what you would do, but im staying here, and I will resent my government when it does wrongs.
My government is supposed to be a reflection of myself and my values. Terrorists and other countries attack our civilians because they associate american with american government. If this is why innocent people are dying, then show rest of commentUm, why should I leave and not you? Why are you more american than me? Supporting a government does not mean your more american. During the french revolution, were the revolutionaries less french or more french than any up till then? Americans are united by being within a border, not an economic or governmental system of policies and meetings. I'm not leaving this country because its just as much mine as yours. And Im going to make it the way it should be. I'm not going to just pack up and run, because motherfucker thats UNAMERICAN (nyuk nyuk), and maybe thats what you would do, but im staying here, and I will resent my government when it does wrongs. My government is supposed to be a reflection of myself and my values. Terrorists and other countries attack our civilians because they associate american with american government. If this is why innocent people are dying, then I need to not blindly support the government that fueled this (Osama bin laden WAS CIA trained, people), but reshape and mold it till it accurately represents the values that they hollowly proclaim they do. We are being punished for anger that is against the american machismo and foriegn policy. Now we can ignore that, and blame scapegoats for why this happened, or we can punish those that did this, but realize until we assume responsibility for allowing our government to misrepresent us across the world with its own undemocratic dealings, troop stationings, and overall #1 selfinterest attitude, things like this will not be prevented. We have to understand why this happened in order to prevent it, and accept it did happen instead of thinking killing one man or thousands will bring any of them back. wyzo
Someone (September 14, 2001)
Why do u automatically assume that I am american? I am not. Nor do I want to be. I am a proud Canadian and I think nothing is more sad than watching your government compromise your safety.
A part of me agrees with what you are saying but the other part just thinks that there is a time and place for everything.
The way I see it, if I didn't like Canada I would just leave.........why?, because I can.
You have to understand that we don't experience things like this in Canada. (Don't think we are not appauled by what happend) This country doesn't seem to go out and fuck other nations over with foreign policy. I know our military sucks, and that if say Ethiopia wanted to fuck us up, they could with a lot of ease. Of course if any country did, there wouldn't be anyone saying that we got what we deserved. That is what you have to question.
I am interested to know what ex show rest of commentWhy do u automatically assume that I am american? I am not. Nor do I want to be. I am a proud Canadian and I think nothing is more sad than watching your government compromise your safety. A part of me agrees with what you are saying but the other part just thinks that there is a time and place for everything. The way I see it, if I didn't like Canada I would just leave.........why?, because I can. You have to understand that we don't experience things like this in Canada. (Don't think we are not appauled by what happend) This country doesn't seem to go out and fuck other nations over with foreign policy. I know our military sucks, and that if say Ethiopia wanted to fuck us up, they could with a lot of ease. Of course if any country did, there wouldn't be anyone saying that we got what we deserved. That is what you have to question. I am interested to know what exactly you are doing to change your country, aside from visibly showing your disdain for your government?
seek (September 14, 2001)
i know you have good intent, but you are just plain wrong. the thing about america, which we all like, is that it was founded on freedom. that freedom has eroded in many aspects, but admittedly, it is still freer than a whole lot of countries. one of the freedoms that have not eroded fully is the freedom to speak out and express yourself. if this country is so great and free, how dare you tell us we cant freely express ourselves and express our discontent. first, why settle for less? im sure you agree there are many things that could be changed for the better. also, we do many horrible things. when i look into the flag i dont see the patriotic garble that it is intended to place in to your head, i see the very bad things we do. it doesnt mean i hate my country, just a lot of the things they do. it is not disrespecting the people who gave their lives show rest of commenti know you have good intent, but you are just plain wrong. the thing about america, which we all like, is that it was founded on freedom. that freedom has eroded in many aspects, but admittedly, it is still freer than a whole lot of countries. one of the freedoms that have not eroded fully is the freedom to speak out and express yourself. if this country is so great and free, how dare you tell us we cant freely express ourselves and express our discontent. first, why settle for less? im sure you agree there are many things that could be changed for the better. also, we do many horrible things. when i look into the flag i dont see the patriotic garble that it is intended to place in to your head, i see the very bad things we do. it doesnt mean i hate my country, just a lot of the things they do. it is not disrespecting the people who gave their lives in the name of freedom, or those who gave their lives fighting in war. no, that duty of disrespect is already being done by the government, who holds no respect for those that died for freedom as they seek to reverse it. get with it man, or at least dont fucking tell other people what to do.
icK-x-Strife (September 14, 2001)
I've said it before and I'll say it again : Leave my country? fuck no. I'll stay and fight to make it better. - icK-x-Strife
Someone (September 14, 2001)
You know sacrificing one's own ideas for an obligatory sign of respect is a scary thing indeed. I personally am not going to sacrifice my ideas and join the rallying war cry just to become accepted. Shouldn't the way that you show respect have meaning to you in addition to people that have died? Since when is embracing a nationalistic emblem showing respect for the dead? I would like to believe that donating blood, money or in any other way supporting the families of this tragedy would be the way to go. However, I will not embrace an emblem when the correct course of action is to embrace the real people who are the victims of this. Once we sacrifice our ideas for fake nationalism the powers that be can make this world a very scary place to live in. Show respect, yes! But do not sacrifice your ideals! (If this doesn't make sense it's b/c it's 2:23 am)
Jeff Larson
show rest of commentYou know sacrificing one's own ideas for an obligatory sign of respect is a scary thing indeed. I personally am not going to sacrifice my ideas and join the rallying war cry just to become accepted. Shouldn't the way that you show respect have meaning to you in addition to people that have died? Since when is embracing a nationalistic emblem showing respect for the dead? I would like to believe that donating blood, money or in any other way supporting the families of this tragedy would be the way to go. However, I will not embrace an emblem when the correct course of action is to embrace the real people who are the victims of this. Once we sacrifice our ideas for fake nationalism the powers that be can make this world a very scary place to live in. Show respect, yes! But do not sacrifice your ideals! (If this doesn't make sense it's b/c it's 2:23 am) Jeff Larson send hate mail to Jefflar@umail.ucsb.edu
sickboi (chris) (September 14, 2001)
People can argue back and forth about how fucked our government is, the meaning of the flag and so forth. First off, you have it a lot better here than you would in other countries. Thats a fact. Our government fucks up, yes we all know that. No one is really oblvious to that. However, I get tired of people saying what a shitty country we are and blah, blah, blah.
Also, where are all of you dumb fucks who were saying that cops are completely worthless? I hope that seeing them risking their lives in a smoldering, collapsing building showed your own ignorance to you.
Bottom line, if you are an american citizen, fine, complain about mistakes and shitty things our government does. Turn your little flag upside to make your "statement". Personally, I would never turn a flag upside down. You think that flag just stands for the government? It is also a symbol of us, the citize show rest of commentPeople can argue back and forth about how fucked our government is, the meaning of the flag and so forth. First off, you have it a lot better here than you would in other countries. Thats a fact. Our government fucks up, yes we all know that. No one is really oblvious to that. However, I get tired of people saying what a shitty country we are and blah, blah, blah. Also, where are all of you dumb fucks who were saying that cops are completely worthless? I hope that seeing them risking their lives in a smoldering, collapsing building showed your own ignorance to you. Bottom line, if you are an american citizen, fine, complain about mistakes and shitty things our government does. Turn your little flag upside to make your "statement". Personally, I would never turn a flag upside down. You think that flag just stands for the government? It is also a symbol of us, the citizens. I look at it and think "wow, in my country people who are catholic, muslim, atheist, agnostic and buddhist can all go to school together without (usually) having to worry about shit. Or I can write subversive literature without fearing being drug out of my home late at night." Many will disagree with me, fine, you can actually do that in this country.
icK-x-Strife (September 14, 2001)
Yes I will continue to make my "statement". It is a very small statement but if enough people make it then big things happen. If nothing ever gets changed then fine. But I sure as hell tried. You seem to think that this nation is free. It is ... if you do what you are told. Speak out against the powers that be at a protest and see how free the nation that you care for so much is. If you REALLY love america so much then take the time to try and change it for the better. - icK-x-Strife
Someone (September 14, 2001)
well, i dont have time to read every post on here, but maybe someone will have time to read mine.. i completely agree with the guy(s) that said to keep the flag upside-down. here's a few of my posts that i posted on my local message board, in response to a debate over patriotism and the tragedy in New York:
"I am not cold-hearted, but I dont think this tragedy is any worse just because it happened close to home. We all know that people are dying unnecessary deaths everyday, but we dont do jack shit about it. About 24,000 people die every day from starvation. But almost all of them are in other countries, so nobody gives a shit. Are these people less important just because they live in a different country and have less money? This is where the american patriotism comes in... Anyone who is "proud to be an american" is just as stupid as the people dancing in show rest of commentwell, i dont have time to read every post on here, but maybe someone will have time to read mine.. i completely agree with the guy(s) that said to keep the flag upside-down. here's a few of my posts that i posted on my local message board, in response to a debate over patriotism and the tragedy in New York: "I am not cold-hearted, but I dont think this tragedy is any worse just because it happened close to home. We all know that people are dying unnecessary deaths everyday, but we dont do jack shit about it. About 24,000 people die every day from starvation. But almost all of them are in other countries, so nobody gives a shit. Are these people less important just because they live in a different country and have less money? This is where the american patriotism comes in... Anyone who is "proud to be an american" is just as stupid as the people dancing in the streets in Palestine. You're so fucking brainwashed into sticking up for the government that you don't even care about life itself. You have no reason to hate a country or love a country. But you do have reasons to hate governments. They get us into this mess with their greed for money and power. But who pays the price? Innocent people like the people who died in New York and D.C.. But then we root for our government like they're a fucking football team. The government does not represent us, they represent themselves. But we depend on them to get us out of the mess they got us into, and then we praise them for killing the "bad" guys. We are all humans that were all born on the same earth, but so many of us beleive that we must hate each other for living in different countries. It makes me sick to see people bragging about how patriotic they are, because most of them haven't done jack shit to earn that pride. Why should I be patriotic of a government that I have never been involved in, and creates war among innocent people? You act you've accomplished something great by being born in America. I was born in America, and it wasn't very hard. You didn't do a damn thing, and have no reason to be proud. Just because you don't have to watch people die on TV everyday doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. I think it's horrible that it happened, but I honestly haven't shed any tears over it. But shit like this is going to keep on happening as long as we support the killers that run the country. I feel so stupid, because i'm preaching the obvious, and it's all been said hundreds of times by so many people, but not everyone listens." "i realize that people are pissed, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't control yourself. That's what causes problems like this in the first place. The governments piss each other off, and their anger equals the deaths of innocent people. Then everyone gets pissed at that and wants to kill more people. Just because I live in this country that got attacked doesn't mean i should seek the deaths of innocent people in other countries, no matter how pissed off i am." "i thought we already discussed this, but apparantly you forgot. I don't think you're a bad person for being patriotic, just confused. First of all, there's no reason to be proud of something unless you did something. Why are you proud of being born in america? Being born isn't some great accomplishment. We all do it. It was just luck that you were born into a wealthy country with a family that could feed you and take care of you. By saying you are proud to be an american, you are giving the impression that you are better than everyone else that wasn't fortunate enough to be born here. Do you really feel that way? Also by calling yourself a proud American, it's like saying that you love your government (because the government is what makes this place America). I guess you dont realize that the government is what causes problems like the WTC tragedy in the first place. The government probably didn't fly planes into their own buildings, but they are still responsible for getting the innocent citizens into this mess to begin with. Am I wrong here? The buildings that were targeted were all government buildings. What does this tell you? It means that the terrorists weren't against the american citizens, they were against the american government. But we pay the price, not them. Why would you love a government so much that causes people to get killed? Oh, i forgot. You were born here. Good reasoning. What if there were no borders? No countries? like Pangea? (sp?) There would be nobody to fight against, because we would all be one people. So maybe you should change your love for the country into love for the entire world. Does that make any sense at all?" To sum my feelings up, there's no reason to take the government's side just becuase we live here. They (and other governments) are the cause of this tragedy, and by supporting them, we are supporting war. Turn the flags upside down and show your disgust for war and hatred. As for respecting the dead... if it weren't for the U.S. government, they wouldn't be dead. It's as simple as that. So i doubt the people that died would want to see everyone sporting the american flag, a symbol of the government that caused their deaths. If you really want to respect the dead, turn the flag upside down to show that you aren't going to put up with this war and hatred anymore... thanks for reading this far.
Someone (September 14, 2001)
oh, and i guess i should mention a few more things... mine name's kenny, i'm from cincinnati, oh... my email address is kroa@zoomtown.com and also i should add that i DO have family living in manhattan, and family working for american airlines. and this was all posted before i found out that they were allright. so don't think that my feelings would change if i had lost someone in the tragedy. if you want to email me, feel free. kenny
Someone (September 14, 2001)
And I want to know mr brainiac are you prepared to die in a country you don't like?
Hypothetical situation:
You are picking your kid up from nursery school. As you are walking, you see an islamic extremist walking in at the same time with explosives strapped to him. He says that he hates america's government and all americans. He wants to shake americans morale by blowing up little kids into amillion pieces.....even though we all know that these kids are just doing the same as kids everywhere else in the world. You tell him that you don't like your gorvernment either, that is corrupt and needs to change.
Do you think this crazy fuck will say 'Oh, you don't like america? Then your kid prolly won't either. HMmmmm, maybe I should just blowup a post office or something. NO HE WON"T.
HE would most likely look at you and smile, then explode.
SO you think by turning your flag show rest of commentAnd I want to know mr brainiac are you prepared to die in a country you don't like? Hypothetical situation: You are picking your kid up from nursery school. As you are walking, you see an islamic extremist walking in at the same time with explosives strapped to him. He says that he hates america's government and all americans. He wants to shake americans morale by blowing up little kids into amillion pieces.....even though we all know that these kids are just doing the same as kids everywhere else in the world. You tell him that you don't like your gorvernment either, that is corrupt and needs to change. Do you think this crazy fuck will say 'Oh, you don't like america? Then your kid prolly won't either. HMmmmm, maybe I should just blowup a post office or something. NO HE WON"T. HE would most likely look at you and smile, then explode. SO you think by turning your flag upside down that is going to save your sorry ass from from attacks like this? Yeah your government is fucked and fucks others over, through foreign policies and military tactics to enforce those policies, but when has an american ever strapped explosives to him and gone to a mid east grocery store to explode? YOu don't get it.
Someone (September 14, 2001)
What you said makes no sense..... you seem to be missing my point, so let me try to help you out here:
By sporting the american flag and being patriotic, you are not supporting your country as people, you are supporting it as a government. If you are really pissed off about the terrorist attacks, then you need to look at the root of the problem, and i think you will agree that the government got us into this. The buildings that were destroyed on tuesday were all government buildings, not nursery schools. The terrorists are not against american people, they are against the american government. Am I wrong about this? So by turning the flag upside down (or not wearing a flag at all, like myself) you are saying "I don't want to be an American. I am a part of the human race, and I view all humans equally". Sure, a borderless peaceful world may seem like a fantasy, but that show rest of commentWhat you said makes no sense..... you seem to be missing my point, so let me try to help you out here: By sporting the american flag and being patriotic, you are not supporting your country as people, you are supporting it as a government. If you are really pissed off about the terrorist attacks, then you need to look at the root of the problem, and i think you will agree that the government got us into this. The buildings that were destroyed on tuesday were all government buildings, not nursery schools. The terrorists are not against american people, they are against the american government. Am I wrong about this? So by turning the flag upside down (or not wearing a flag at all, like myself) you are saying "I don't want to be an American. I am a part of the human race, and I view all humans equally". Sure, a borderless peaceful world may seem like a fantasy, but that doesn't mean you should accept a shitty reality. And in reference to your question about americans exploding buildings, why don't you do some research and find out who was responsible for the bombing in Oklahoma City. AN AMERICAN. (although he probably wouldn't want to be considered an American.) The point I was trying to make is that you shouldn't be supporting a government who jeopardizes the lives of its citizens. I am in no way trying to justify the terrorism. So remember this: If it weren't for the U.S. government, this wouldn't have happened. Do you disagree?
sickboi (chris) (September 14, 2001)
The Oklahoma bombing is different. That was terrorism on us by us. The point he/she (the guy or gal before you) made was that no American (that we know of) has gone abroad to make a direct attack on civilians for political reasons. Furthermore, I see the flag as a symbol of not just the government, but as the citizens of this country and the basic ideals it, and we, try to stand for. By turning it upside down, burning it, or whatever, you are basically spitting on your fellow Americans. I question, and sometimes despise and hate my government, but I love my country and the basic principles we try to stand for...equality, freedom and strength.
Someone (September 14, 2001)
ok, well let me ask you this... besides being ruled under a different government, what is the difference between an american and a canadian? an american and a mexican? an american and a german? The answer is none. The only thing that makes us different is that we live inside different borders, and the borders are created by the government. If you think the flag is a symbol of the citizens, then what makes us better than citizens of any other country? Why do we need to be divided? By turning the flag upside down, I am not disrespecting any human beings, i am disrespecting the existance of borders, the existance of governments, and the division created among the human race.
Countries are defined by one thing: governments.
Borders are defined by one thing: governments.
America is defined by one thing: governments.
The flag is defined by one thing: governments.
By show rest of commentok, well let me ask you this... besides being ruled under a different government, what is the difference between an american and a canadian? an american and a mexican? an american and a german? The answer is none. The only thing that makes us different is that we live inside different borders, and the borders are created by the government. If you think the flag is a symbol of the citizens, then what makes us better than citizens of any other country? Why do we need to be divided? By turning the flag upside down, I am not disrespecting any human beings, i am disrespecting the existance of borders, the existance of governments, and the division created among the human race. Countries are defined by one thing: governments. Borders are defined by one thing: governments. America is defined by one thing: governments. The flag is defined by one thing: governments. By supporting the flag, you are supporting the government. Show respect for the entire human race, not just the ones who follow the same leader as you.
sickboi (chris) (September 14, 2001)
Good point, but I'm not making any assumption that my country is better than yours or vice-versa. I like Canada, I think you have a lot of things we can learn from you. Socialized medical care, insurance, clean streets....I could go on. But, if I were a Canadian citizen I would be proud of the Canadian flag. Not to say that I was better than another country, but simply because it represents my people in my nation. Kinda like the punk music scene. I'm in Richmond, VA and am very proud and supportive of local bands. Thats not to say I think they are better than bands from elswhere, just that its a local thing. I know thats kind of an "iffy" comparision, but it makes some sense.
Someone (September 14, 2001)
Exactly.
When I go travelling I have the Canadian flag patched on my backpack. Why? Because it symbolizes my people, not my government.
It symbolizes my peaceful nation. It symbolizes a nation, with government and all peoples within the nation. NOT JUST THE GOVERNMENT.
Don't disrespect your people by doing nothing about what happend. Doing nothing includes non-unity. I am not saying agree with your government all of a sudden, but do something productive. Even if it is something as small as turning your flag rigt side up, if only for a little while. That would be showing that you care about your people, and after the mourning then turn it back the way it was. That would make more sense to me. Don't be such an extremist!!
Also, there is a difference between all of us, and that is culture. That is what makes all of us unique. We all have diferent cultures and I am proud of mine. show rest of commentExactly. When I go travelling I have the Canadian flag patched on my backpack. Why? Because it symbolizes my people, not my government. It symbolizes my peaceful nation. It symbolizes a nation, with government and all peoples within the nation. NOT JUST THE GOVERNMENT. Don't disrespect your people by doing nothing about what happend. Doing nothing includes non-unity. I am not saying agree with your government all of a sudden, but do something productive. Even if it is something as small as turning your flag rigt side up, if only for a little while. That would be showing that you care about your people, and after the mourning then turn it back the way it was. That would make more sense to me. Don't be such an extremist!! Also, there is a difference between all of us, and that is culture. That is what makes all of us unique. We all have diferent cultures and I am proud of mine. My culture does not include my government but it does include my people. And no I am not uneducated about other terrorist acts. I do however take what I hear on the CNN with a grain of salt. I do not solely believe that McVeigh was alone on his acts either. You should try reading some of the books regarding that issue that have BEEN BANNED FROM BEING SOLD IN THE USA. Don't be ignorant when you say that all of the targets were strictly against the US government. They were on the innocent people of the US. IF it werejust the government they were after they should have kept their targets to US military bases, and thats it. And just or your information, YES, these terrorists are against all americans not just the government. They would kill you, your mother or your kids in a second if given the chance, because it is what the believe. Show respect for the entire human race then, and do nothing. By doing that you are saying that your life is worthless, which I don't believe is true.
Someone (September 14, 2001)
"The buildings that were destroyed on tuesday were all government buildings" No they weren't. Get your facts straight.
Someone (September 14, 2001)
so sue me. how's this: "The buildings that were destroyed on tuesday were all buildings that were essential to the government or the government relied on" The only reason you're nitpicking is because you can't logically disprove my opinion. what's next? spelling mistakes?
Someone (September 14, 2001)
Any building destroyed affects the government.The government relieson its people. It relies on the taces that the americans pay to keep the government functional.
Do you really believe that civillians didn't rely on those buildings? How about those janitors working in there? Do u not think they relied on their jobs to put food on their families tables?
Oh but I guess because you think it was just a government building that they deserved to die then right? Cause they spent a living cleaning up shit and piss and emptying trash for 'the government'. How about you bomb your own house, and murder your family cause you all are paying taxes and supporting your government everytime you buy something. Then in fact shouldn't you be at risk because you inevitably supoort your government? Doesn't that mean that you in a way are essential to your government?
You are then saying that your life show rest of commentAny building destroyed affects the government.The government relieson its people. It relies on the taces that the americans pay to keep the government functional. Do you really believe that civillians didn't rely on those buildings? How about those janitors working in there? Do u not think they relied on their jobs to put food on their families tables? Oh but I guess because you think it was just a government building that they deserved to die then right? Cause they spent a living cleaning up shit and piss and emptying trash for 'the government'. How about you bomb your own house, and murder your family cause you all are paying taxes and supporting your government everytime you buy something. Then in fact shouldn't you be at risk because you inevitably supoort your government? Doesn't that mean that you in a way are essential to your government? You are then saying that your life isn't that important because you are supporting your government financially, and it would be ok if you were a target. interested to hear your thoughts about it.
Someone (September 15, 2001)
you're getting really fucking desperate here... listen to what you're saying.. you're comparing the fucking world trade center to my house... come on, think before you type. The buildings destroyed are buildings that are very important to our government. Buildings that symbolize power and wealth. My house does not symbolize much power and wealth, trust me. Are you suggesting that these buildings were picked randomly out of the millions of buildings in the country? Give me a fucking break, you're embarrassing yourself. put on your glasses and read this: THE TRAGEDY WAS CAUSED BY GOVERNMENTS. IF THE GOVERNMENTS DIDN'T EXIST, THE HATRED WOULDN'T EXIST. i'm starting to think that you're a lost cause, but i still have a little hope in you.
icK-x-Strife (September 14, 2001)
Welcome kenny. Great post. - icK-x-Strife
icK-x-Strife (September 14, 2001)
You can go kiss uncle sam's ass all you want. This isn't about to change my views towards america. I respect the dead, but I still don't respect our country. While the rest of the school was decked out in patriotic attire I decided it best to wear my 'The Unseen' shirt bearing the title : 'So this is freedom?' How easy it is to be anti-patriotic when all is normal in the world. The hard part is sticking to your guns in a time like this. How can you not see that this nation is being brainwashed by this red, white and blue bullshit. Heed the call to rally around the flag if that is what you feel you need to do, but afterwards don't bother to be an anti-patriot. You'll only end up looking like a hypocrite. - icK-x-Strife
Someone (September 14, 2001)
i love you, ickxstrife... times like this separate the true anti-patriots from the fashion-anarchists. it's ridiculous that people have to turn to the government for help in solving the problems that the government created in the first place. One day, when the government turns the entire country into shit-water, people will realize that patriotism will never get us anywhere, but unity, love, and peace will.
Someone (September 14, 2001)
So are you saying I can't love my country without loving my government?
I beg to differ. I love the common values this country stands for. The government, well, needs a lot of improvement. I've never taken an anarchist approach to politics. I understand that we tend to stick our noses where they don't belong in foreign affairs way too often, but I'm not gonna just say fuck America. This country is amazing. The idea of people of different backgrounds living together with different values. I'm Agnostic, my best friends can easily be Catholic, Muslim or Hindu. Things never go according to plan but at least our country's people have an idea of how we want to live.
The majority of us don't want to see innocent people in Afghanistan murdered, yet they dance in the street when it happens to us? Fuck that. Thats why I love Americans. Most of em anyway. So whear your punk shirt to scho show rest of commentSo are you saying I can't love my country without loving my government? I beg to differ. I love the common values this country stands for. The government, well, needs a lot of improvement. I've never taken an anarchist approach to politics. I understand that we tend to stick our noses where they don't belong in foreign affairs way too often, but I'm not gonna just say fuck America. This country is amazing. The idea of people of different backgrounds living together with different values. I'm Agnostic, my best friends can easily be Catholic, Muslim or Hindu. Things never go according to plan but at least our country's people have an idea of how we want to live. The majority of us don't want to see innocent people in Afghanistan murdered, yet they dance in the street when it happens to us? Fuck that. Thats why I love Americans. Most of em anyway. So whear your punk shirt to school, put your flag upside down, do whatever you want. You can do that here. Its your right. Try that shit in Afghanistan or China or Cuba or Iraq. I'm sure they won't be as tolerant.
icK-x-Strife (September 14, 2001)
We never danced in the street? Excuse me, but the whole nation was cheering after desert storm ... And there were parades after we dropped atom bombs on japan, and I'm sure americans will be cheering when they find out we used some military muscle, and killed lots of Arabs. I'll respond to the rest of your post later .... the simpsons are on now. - icK-x-Strife
Someone (September 14, 2001)
Yes, we did, but because we had also defeated some enemies. These people were happy simply because AMERICANS had died, not because they had defeated some fo the military personnel (Exception being the Pentagon). The parades after Japan were not for the specific act, but for the victory and end of war. There is a large difference here. Terrorist are scumbags that use innoncent people to make a point. We kill civilians in war as part of taking out the military. Do not believe all that shit you read in your punkrock pamphlets, some of it is as much propaganda as governments feed.
icK-x-Strife (September 14, 2001)
Someone has said this already but I suppose I'll repeat it. Those people have been taught since the day they were born to hate americans. Not much unlike how we are taught to hate communism, & Saddam, among other things.
Those people were not nessisarily cheering for the deaths of americans. It was for the destruction of the WTC. The WTC is a symbol of american foreign power and the american economy to them. It would be like us blowing up the Eifel (spelling?) Tower if we were in a war with France. It is symbolic.
There were parades and celebration all over america after the bombing of Hiroshima. The war was still going at this point so no it was not a celebration for the end of WWII. It was cheering and celebration over the fact that we can destroy an entire city with one single bomb.
"Do not believe all that shit you read in your punkrock pamphlets, some of it is as show rest of commentSomeone has said this already but I suppose I'll repeat it. Those people have been taught since the day they were born to hate americans. Not much unlike how we are taught to hate communism, & Saddam, among other things. Those people were not nessisarily cheering for the deaths of americans. It was for the destruction of the WTC. The WTC is a symbol of american foreign power and the american economy to them. It would be like us blowing up the Eifel (spelling?) Tower if we were in a war with France. It is symbolic. There were parades and celebration all over america after the bombing of Hiroshima. The war was still going at this point so no it was not a celebration for the end of WWII. It was cheering and celebration over the fact that we can destroy an entire city with one single bomb. "Do not believe all that shit you read in your punkrock pamphlets, some of it is as much propaganda as the governments feed." - What "punkrock pamphlets" would those be? Yes, I get a lot of my information from alternative media sources but they are hardly "propaganda". Alternative media gets readers by reporting the truth. I'm not exactly a subscriber to anti-america monthly. - icK-x-Strife
icK-x-Strife (September 14, 2001)
Oh and the terrorists obviously didn't just want dead americans. If the did they could have easily killed many, many, more people by hitting a crowded football stadium or something similar. - icK-x-Strife
Someone (September 14, 2001)
SO I am interested what you would do about this situation. Obviously it is very easy to be negative about any idea anyone else has, so let's hear what you would do. Really, aside from wearing your flag upside what would you do about what has happend? I'm dying to know.
icK-x-Strife (September 14, 2001)
The bottom line is that the US needs to get any and all military troops out of the Middle East. If they don't they are basically just daring more terrorists to do this sort of thing.
Secondly, the government needs a new foreign policy. Us being the morality police for the rest of the world just isn't cutting it. You are only asking for trouble by doing this.
I would also be in support of down-sizing the US military. With such a large military other countries need to have an equal or comparable force just to keep up with us. This is only putting more weapons than nessesary in the world, and it makes us appear to be more of a threat. Which no good can come from. America isn't at war. We claim to be a 'peaceful' nation. Lets start acting like one.
The US projected military spending for 2002 is 13.6 billion dollars. More is considered being added. Think about all the grea show rest of commentThe bottom line is that the US needs to get any and all military troops out of the Middle East. If they don't they are basically just daring more terrorists to do this sort of thing. Secondly, the government needs a new foreign policy. Us being the morality police for the rest of the world just isn't cutting it. You are only asking for trouble by doing this. I would also be in support of down-sizing the US military. With such a large military other countries need to have an equal or comparable force just to keep up with us. This is only putting more weapons than nessesary in the world, and it makes us appear to be more of a threat. Which no good can come from. America isn't at war. We claim to be a 'peaceful' nation. Lets start acting like one. The US projected military spending for 2002 is 13.6 billion dollars. More is considered being added. Think about all the great things that money could do in schools around the nation. Nieghborhoods that could be rebuilt. So much good can be done. As far as dealing with the people responsible for the attack is concerned I can't really give my opinion on what should be done as nobody even knows who EXACTLY is behind this. There is speculation, but more than often than not, those ideas are wrong. - icK-x-Strife
Someone (September 15, 2001)
You obviously don't see both sides of this double edged sword. You say we try to play "morality police" for the rest of the world but you don't realize that if we don't intervene we have every other country bitching because we are supposed to be the leader of the free world. Listen kid, you can't have it both ways. We're not gonna live in some bullshit communist or anarchist state. I know your punk views rule your life but wake the fuck up. You know didley about politics and you are a heartless fuck. Get the hell out our country and bitch elsewhere. Oh, I forgot, you gotta graduate high school first. Maybe Ma and Pa will spring for the ticket as a graduation gift.
icK-x-Strife (September 15, 2001)
Haha. You made my point for me ----> "...you don't realize that if we don't intervene we have every other country bitching because we are supposed to be the leader of the free world."
- My exact point. We AREN'T supposed to be the leader of the free world. If we stopped running our military around the globe like we are the international police then people would stop expecting it from us.
"I know your punk views rule your life.."
- How exactly would you know that? This is a message board and you don't know anything about me or my life. Kudos on making yourself look foolish with stupid comments like that.
"You know didley about politics and you are a heartless fuck"
- Are insults supposed to make me feel bad or possibly hurt my feelings? Sorry to disappoint you. I've said it to other kids and I'll say it to you. Grow up. Oh and I'm sure I know plenty about politics. I read about and study it all the time. The "heartless fuck" comment was completely worthless. I've said I feel terrible about what happened numerous times show rest of commentHaha. You made my point for me ----> "...you don't realize that if we don't intervene we have every other country bitching because we are supposed to be the leader of the free world." - My exact point. We AREN'T supposed to be the leader of the free world. If we stopped running our military around the globe like we are the international police then people would stop expecting it from us. "I know your punk views rule your life.." - How exactly would you know that? This is a message board and you don't know anything about me or my life. Kudos on making yourself look foolish with stupid comments like that. "You know didley about politics and you are a heartless fuck" - Are insults supposed to make me feel bad or possibly hurt my feelings? Sorry to disappoint you. I've said it to other kids and I'll say it to you. Grow up. Oh and I'm sure I know plenty about politics. I read about and study it all the time. The "heartless fuck" comment was completely worthless. I've said I feel terrible about what happened numerous times and I do. Just because I don't support what this country does, doesn't mean I don't care when civilians die. "Get the hell out our country and bitch elsewhere." - Was that the best line you could come up with? Oh please. - icK-x-Strife
Someone (September 14, 2001)
what is wrong with you? you didn't like living in freedom your entire life? are you so obsessed with being pseudo-punk and maintaining an image that you can't even show compassion for thousands of citizens who died in a cowardly attack? criticize our army and government all you want, that is your right, but if you find yourself supporting terrorists and their ways of lif, which i suspect you know very little about, maybe you should move to another country that doesn't have the liberties we take for granted on a daily basis. my good friends father is dead now because of these bastards, how can you justify his death? go to hell, brian
icK-x-Strife (September 15, 2001)
Well brain maybe you should have read my post a little more closely. I said I have respect for the dead, and trust me I feel just as bad about this situation as you do. Since when am I a supporter of terrorists? I am anti-war and anti-voilence. Seems like you are accusing me of something with no basis what-so-ever. Next time offer up some proof before you point the finger. I dont recall ever justifying anyones death. I did say that our foriegn policy and military presence in the middle east was a large reason for this attack. If you want to blame someone look no further than the white house. "go to hell" - Hell is a made up place to scare weak minded children into eating their vegetables. - icK-x-Strife
Someone (September 15, 2001)
you're still in high school and can't possibly know all you seem to think you do. it's pretty easy to be a rebel at age 17, when you're still sheltered from the real world and have no idea whats going on other than what you may read in a punk bands liner notes or some ignorant dissidents rantings.
icK-x-Strife (September 15, 2001)
What does being in highschool have to do with politics? Nothing at all. You can dismiss me as some kid who knows nothing, but it is most likely out of your own ignorance. - icK-x-Strife
icK-x-Strife (September 15, 2001)
Well brian maybe you should have read my post a little more closely. I said I have respect for the dead, and trust me I feel just as bad about this situation as you do. Since when am I a supporter of terrorists? I am anti-war and anti-voilence. Seems like you are accusing me of something with no basis what-so-ever. Next time offer up some proof before you point the finger. I dont recall ever justifying anyones dead. I did say that our foriegn policy and military presence in the middle east was a large reason for this attack. If you want to blame someone look no further than the white house. "go to hell" - Hell is a made up place to scare weak minded children into eating their vegetables. - icK-x-Strife
icK-x-Strife (September 15, 2001)
oops, must have hit the post button twice. - icK-x-Strife
Someone (September 14, 2001)
OK, im going to add my two cents on this matter. It is true that America did diserve it. How many innocent people did the army kill. To many to fuckin' count. But you have to understand somethin'. Most Americans are BLINDED by all the shit the goverment tells them. Most people don't know of all of the things the military doed. Most people work 8 to 6 just support thier families. These peoeple DID NOT DISERVE TO DIE! So in other words, the goverment just killed there own people. You can call me shit and lable me as a "poser" but thats how I feel.
seek (September 14, 2001)
i dont think your a poser, just a fucking moron. let me get this straight, our government and military kills innocents, so our innocents should be killed? uhh... i hope you get shot.
Someone (September 14, 2001)
the people who were killed and the upside down flag patch have nothing to do with each other. if you want to honor those people who died, set up a memorial or make your own flag(without the stars and stipes.)these people should be looked upon as individuals rather than just americans. keep your flag upside down unless you belive in fascism.
Someone (September 15, 2001)
Facism? Is that your buzz word of the week? You idiot. Just because I love my country I'm facist? Why don't you look that word up in the dictionary in study hall instead of drawing anarchy signs on your 11th grade english notebook, you ignorant twit.
icK-x-Strife (September 15, 2001)
Fascism is putting the interest of the state above the individual. That is exactly what america does and this tragedy proves it. america cares more about having troops in the middle east and risking this sort of retaliation then just leaving them be and not getting to look like the international super power. No, loving your country doesn't make you fascist nessisarily but it makes you nationalistic. Lastly what good does it do to call someone an idiot and try and insult them on a message board? fucking grow up. - icK-x-Strife
Someone (September 21, 2001)
you are an idiot, if we leave them be then they'll do it again and again. we cant just let people walk all over us and kill us. i know we've killed people all around the world but does that mean that we should be killed as well? if we just let them be then they will take over and kick the fuck out of us. you see what they've done in afghanistan. they have absolutely horrible human rights over there.
Someone (September 15, 2001)
Nice rip off of a Anti-Flag song you fuckin poseur. I obviously see where your distorted views come from.
icK-x-Strife (September 15, 2001)
How is quoting a punkrock band a basis to call someone a poseur? Secondly what is he claiming to be that would make him one? How about putting a little thought into your next insult kid... - icK-x-Strife
Someone (September 21, 2001)
we should send the KKK to wherever we're gonna fight. im sure theyd be happy to fight with their shot guns and pick up trucks, and if they all die oh well...
Someone (October 14, 2001)
Nationalism scares me. It means that people are willing to die and do whatever their government thinks is nescesary just for some half-assed attempt at *revenge*. I think we all need to stop thinking of the victims of the WTC accident as Americans, but instead as Humans. Wearing you're flag the right way only shows that you supprt America and these notorious "Americans" instead of the fathers and wives and unique human beings they really were. Support humanity, not hypocracy. |
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i was wearing my Propagandhi shirt the day of the bombing, and it made me feel bad as it has the classic upside down flag, meny people we're pissed at me that day.