you stole my glory.

come on die young

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northenden (December 14, 2006)

this is what i needed to sleep tonite. thanks.

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SkolarX (December 14, 2006)

ah, now i understand the CODY my friend got tattooed on his knuckles a few years ago. he said that's what it stood for but i didn't know where it came from. weird dude

Young Team.

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

godcore.....?

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Osloboditelj (December 14, 2006)

Seconded.

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

for the win!

start with none they blow.

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punkbytheounce (December 14, 2006)

Truth.

EP+2 is really solid and Happy Songs for Happy People has Ratts of the Capital. They're all good though, except for the remix album.

mr. beast their latest is pretty rad

well then--the whole discography it is!

nope, eh

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killdefenses (December 14, 2006)

thanks, eh.

like the snl sketch

word son

there isn't even a campfire.

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

yes there is, you can't see it?

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baseball (December 14, 2006)

no, we can't

however the campfire isn't something you can just see....you have to have faith and belief and gain that understanding and love of the campfire over time

one day it will all make sense and you'll know it in your heart because the campfire will be there

in the mean time though....that will be $20 a week, as the word of the campfire requires your donation to help others realize the power!

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

ha!

The fact that it's not cool to be religious if you're a punk kind of makes it punk.

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

HUH? Half the kids go to Catholic schools and admit they're Christian. Almost every person I know that attends Public school says they're Christian. Trust me, most kids say they're religious.

What is your definition of cool? Being Punk or liking Punk isn't considered cool. Trust me - Try going to a big house party (high school or college) and putting on Discharge or Bouncing Souls.. it is not cool

Being a supporter of organized religion is probably the least punk thing there is

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ilikepunkrock (December 14, 2006)

I agree with that statement, seriously the overwhelming majority say they believe in God, and the overwhelming majority does not like punk rock. It is not really cool to not believe in God, just like it is not cool to be a punk.

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punkbytheounce (December 14, 2006)

And yet, all through high school I was surprised when people would turn off my Bad Religion albums at parties.

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Bigwig1022 (December 14, 2006)

Holy shit, way to pull some facts out of your ass... No, half the high school population does not attend Catholic high schools, much less have parents who would WANT their kids to go to Catholic high school, or could afford it... and you must have gone to fucking Candy Land High School to find more than a handful of kids who can openly admit they believe in God, or stand up for Him in school...

The true fact is that punk is an oxymoron of itself... if punk is so anti-culture, wouldnt it be punk to believe or say something under ridicule in punk culture??

I willl agree with you that organized religion is fucked up, but you, and most people on this site have been listening to that jackass Fat Mike and Bad Religion to feel like you know what punk is all about when it comes down to religion

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Someone (December 14, 2006)
In my city of 250,000 every community has 1 public elementary school and 1 catholic elementary school. Every district has 1 public high school and 1 catholic high school. There are 7 public high schools and 5 catholic high schools. Each has approx the same size. So yes, there is more than half attending public high schools, you are right. However, 87% of americans admit to being apart of an organized religion. You won't find many people not celebrating Christmas.

So you're telling me, that if you go to church every sunday, dress up in abercrombie clothing, eating a mcdonalds hamburger, you're punk within the punk community??? LOL... no you're just like every other asshole walking around.

Fat Mike and Bad Religion??? HAHAHA well i guess your name starts with Bigwig. I guess you're just getting into punk. Check out Poison Idea, The Dicks, Subhumans,

show rest of commentIn my city of 250,000 every community has 1 public elementary school and 1 catholic elementary school. Every district has 1 public high school and 1 catholic high school. There are 7 public high schools and 5 catholic high schools. Each has approx the same size. So yes, there is more than half attending public high schools, you are right. However, 87% of americans admit to being apart of an organized religion. You won't find many people not celebrating Christmas.

So you're telling me, that if you go to church every sunday, dress up in abercrombie clothing, eating a mcdonalds hamburger, you're punk within the punk community??? LOL... no you're just like every other asshole walking around.

Fat Mike and Bad Religion??? HAHAHA well i guess your name starts with Bigwig. I guess you're just getting into punk. Check out Poison Idea, The Dicks, Subhumans, Dystopia, Hellshock and others.


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Someone (December 14, 2006)
Okay, based on what you said you can't really make any generalizations about the national level of Catholic School attendance. We don't all like in your weirdo, "5/12 of our schools are Catholic" community.

I guess in a place like that most of the people you go to school with would admit to being religious. That's sure not how it was at my high school. We had some kind of school god association or what ever, and it wasn't exactly the popular club to be in. So yeah, being openly religious, not exactly the way to get yourself a seat at the "cool" table.

I kind of understand what the previous guy was saying too. I don't think its quite as black and white as you make it. That comes down to the whole "definition of punk" thing though. Is punk about blindly rejecting what society forces on us? (That seems to be your view, from what I can tell). Or is

show rest of commentOkay, based on what you said you can't really make any generalizations about the national level of Catholic School attendance. We don't all like in your weirdo, "5/12 of our schools are Catholic" community.

I guess in a place like that most of the people you go to school with would admit to being religious. That's sure not how it was at my high school. We had some kind of school god association or what ever, and it wasn't exactly the popular club to be in. So yeah, being openly religious, not exactly the way to get yourself a seat at the "cool" table.

I kind of understand what the previous guy was saying too. I don't think its quite as black and white as you make it. That comes down to the whole "definition of punk" thing though. Is punk about blindly rejecting what society forces on us? (That seems to be your view, from what I can tell). Or is it about being independent enough to make our own choices based on what we feel is right/important, and not giving a fuck what anyone (Including the masses of leather jackets and plaid pants in the "punk" community) think?

Or is it just about getting fucked up and not having a job and sniffing glue?
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ilikepunkrock (December 14, 2006)

Sniffing Glue Sniffing Glue you don't know what your missing, Sniffing Glue Sniffing Glue it is better than kissing
RIP The Exploding Hearts

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punkbytheounce (December 14, 2006)

In my little town of 20,000 there were much more than 'just a handful' of people who believed in God, and 'stood up for him in school.' Obviously the rurality of being 20 miles south of any real city may have come into play, but there are plenty of high schools full of kids who believe in God.

Nazi Fascism?

horticulture?

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

horticulture is as punk as it gets.

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Scruffy (December 14, 2006)

xPruningx!

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punkbytheounce (December 14, 2006)

Awesome.

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AaronEmerson (December 14, 2006)

You can bring a horticulture, but you can't make her use the right fork.

Falloutboy?

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

ha

you're an idiot...

Ba-ZING!

hey now, i wear glasses which are similar, i have a lot of tattooos and i am bald

totally agreed though, does this mean any reformed drug addict can preach the gospel?

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Allular (December 14, 2006)

Honestly, yeah. Why not?

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Allular (December 14, 2006)

Not to sound like a butthole or anything but... what I mean is that where in The Bible it says you can't preach the gospel if you've once struggled with drugs?

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

Its somewhere in the back

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KurtTGS (December 14, 2006)

hahahaha

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IKnowNothing (December 14, 2006)

Is that near where it talks about allowing moochers into thy hut?

hey smart guy, where does it say anything about jay bakker being a televangelist?

"not being able to read" definitely makes you punk.

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

Dante was stretching the truth which is totally fine, considering everyone here read the article. He's a preacher on television, makes him in stretched truth a televangelist. He was making a point by exagerating. I think he hoped everyone would catch on, because they had read the article, and not think he was lying or misunderstanding, but apparently, some people here don't have a sense of humor and/or a sense of metaphore.

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

I'll admit that I wrote the above statement. I, apparently, have no sense of grammer and/or what constitutes a run-on sentence.

15 kids meeting in a bar is hardly "televangelism."

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Dante3000 (rich) (December 14, 2006)

Having a special on the Sundance Network might qualify however.
-Dante

Finally, something I can agree w/ Dante on.

Also, televangelists are the LOWEST life forms on the planet.

If you really care that much about religion, you don't preach to the public eye, you preach in front of God's eyes. So quit talking to CNN and name dropping your parents you weasel.

wait that's a cover?

Haven't the Irish been doing this for hundreds of years?

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Scruffy (December 14, 2006)

So true. But they're Catholic. I'm Christian, and I even think Catholics are crazy.

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ilikepunkrock (December 14, 2006)

I don't understand the differance between Catholics and Christians. Could you please explain it to me. I think Catholics get this bad wrap when I know a bunch of catholics they don't seem that weird.

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Scruffy (December 14, 2006)

Because Catholics believe that you have to go through a priest to confess your sins, and that isn't supported anywhere scripturally. Because Catholics deify Mary as much as Jesus. Because Catholics accept anything a Pope says as if it were spoken by God.

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ilikepunkrock (December 14, 2006)

I think you are making way too many assumptions, I could say christians all hate abortion, christians all voted for Bush, the list could go on and on. A lot of Catholics I have met believe in very liberal things.

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Scruffy (December 14, 2006)

Then, by definition, they are not Catholic. That's the thing. Catholicism is a very specific religion. It has very exact dogma. If your friends call themselves Catholic but don't believe in confession, transubstantiation or papal infallibility, then they're fringe Catholic at best. In actuality, they are Protestant, because that's where Protestantism arose from, Luther rebelling against the Church's heirarchy and the King of England rebelling against papal rule.

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ilikepunkrock (December 14, 2006)

OK, I agree with you, but I don't know any person is a true (insert religion here) and everyone breaks the rules of their church, unless they don't belong to a church. I always wonder what if there were no churches would the world be a better place, they have their positives and their negatives.

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Scruffy (December 14, 2006)

That's fairly true. But Catholicism is a strictly dogmatic religion. Breaking the rules doesn't make you non-Catholic, but not believing in them probably makes you non-Catholic. With Protestantism, there are far less rules. Many denominations are moving closer to "Whatever the Bible says."
Granted, this is purely scholarly talk for me. I'm a Christian, and nothing more. I find far too much wrong with organized religion to call myself anything more.

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lol_omg_wtf_nambla (December 14, 2006)

Dig it. Catholic=Pope. That's the big mystery. I was raised Catholic, and that's the big thing that sets 'em appart. Before Martin Luther, Catholics were the only game in town, and then he made it OK to disagree with what the Bishop of Rome had to say, and thus you have mainline christians. Christian, by itself, means someone who believes Jesus "Christ" of Nasareth was Our (all mankind's) savior. Beyond that it's anyone's fuckin' guess what that means.

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Someone (December 14, 2006)
Well, actually, you must not have studied Catholicism that much, because there is a lot of progressiveness in that church. Right now Catholics are split between dyed-in-the-wool traditionalists and people who realize a lot of the rules are bullshit.

And no, encouraging reform on a church does not make one a fucking Protestant. Yes, that's how the Protestants started, about 700 years ago. But do you not think that since then there has been massive change within the church? Progressive thinking priests and cardinals (with a lot more credibility than you) have written essays on how the Catholic church is not really a set of rules. There's a lot more going on politically in the Catholic church than you give it credit for.

And I'm not sticking up for Catholics because I am one. I I just think your argument sounds like a bunch of uneducated bullshit trying to pa

show rest of commentWell, actually, you must not have studied Catholicism that much, because there is a lot of progressiveness in that church. Right now Catholics are split between dyed-in-the-wool traditionalists and people who realize a lot of the rules are bullshit.

And no, encouraging reform on a church does not make one a fucking Protestant. Yes, that's how the Protestants started, about 700 years ago. But do you not think that since then there has been massive change within the church? Progressive thinking priests and cardinals (with a lot more credibility than you) have written essays on how the Catholic church is not really a set of rules. There's a lot more going on politically in the Catholic church than you give it credit for.

And I'm not sticking up for Catholics because I am one. I I just think your argument sounds like a bunch of uneducated bullshit trying to pass itself off as "the word."
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Someone (December 14, 2006)

What on earth are you talking about? I was talking about the useless distinction between "Christian" and "Catholic." It's a false dichotomy, yes? All Catholics are Christians right? Also, Super Catholic Dude(ette), pop quiz: Jameson or Bushmills?

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

The church is supposed to be like a hospital, a place where hurting people can go to be loved no matter who they are and hopefully helped with whatever they are going through. Granted, people have REALLY made some changes to that idea. Read Acts

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

seriously, way to know your stuff

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punkbytheounce (December 14, 2006)

Catholics acknowledge the Virgin Mary as the mother of Jesus. They don't deify her as much as him, they just acknowledge that and believe that she had a major part in the beginning of the story.
At least that's what my Sunday school teacher told me when I was in 8th grade. There was probably some deeper meaning and thought behind it but I just totally spaced in that 'class.' Go ahead and rip this argument a new one.

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

Christians are American, Catholics are Forigners.

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

Yeah, but to most athiests you're just splitting hairs. If there is one thing that gets goddamn ridiculuos its this, "I'm just a Christian," fad that makes one high and mighty. I mean sure, its cool if you have beliefs in God and you don't choose one specific sect to be a part of, but just because you sit on the fence doesn't mean you're any less "crazy".

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

I just read some more of your comments, and I think I actually like you, Scruffy. Just wanted to clear some things up about Catholicism. I'm obviously religious, but I can respect people of different religions, or people who are Christian but no real religion or people who have no faith or whatever. I've never said that anyone else's beliefs or lack thereof are stupid or crazy. I hate it how for some reason it's cool and okay to say that religion is stupid, but if anyone made a similar comment about countries or sexual orientation or whatever on this site, people would be outraged. In the punk scene we have social tolerance and sexual tolerance and racial tolerance; where's the religious tolerance?

PS- Bad Religion is one of my favorite bands in the world, and one of my favorite live shows ever was a Leftover Crack show (does that give me 'cred'??).

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lol_omg_wtf_nambla (December 14, 2006)

I can dig on this. Jesus was one of the most socially and sexually tolerant people of his time. Hoes and lepers were about as verbotten as it got in good ol' Judea. Nobody was throwing shit on anyone else yet because EVERYONE had shit on them all the time, so I guess the "tru punx" weren't around yet. Oh well.

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

Sorry, but no belief is immune from criticism. Race and nationality is different because neither is a choice. As for sexual tolerance... the punk scene still has a ways to go on that one. Really, look at all the homophobic comments on this site.

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social_t (December 14, 2006)

That truly is the most important distinction. You chose to put your faith in something outside of what rests between your ears. That choice is yours to make and mine to mock.

You believe in authority, I believe in myself.

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Someone (December 14, 2006)
Please don't confuse faith with thinking.
it is after a lot of thought that a person chooses to accepttheir faith or not (this might take place at 13 or at 30 but it does eventually take place. The arguement that people only get their religious belief from their parent and therefore is invalid is ridiculous when you think about the fact that you get everything (language and motor skills, ethnicity, morals, personality and politicals) from them as well. faith is the belief in a higher power, it doesn't absolve one from personal responsibility, everyone has free will to believe and do as they please. being religious does not make you a zombie.

Christianity and most other religions guidelines or "rules" as you would call them "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" "take care of your fellow man" "thou shall not kill" and so forth exsist only for man

show rest of commentPlease don't confuse faith with thinking.
it is after a lot of thought that a person chooses to accepttheir faith or not (this might take place at 13 or at 30 but it does eventually take place. The arguement that people only get their religious belief from their parent and therefore is invalid is ridiculous when you think about the fact that you get everything (language and motor skills, ethnicity, morals, personality and politicals) from them as well. faith is the belief in a higher power, it doesn't absolve one from personal responsibility, everyone has free will to believe and do as they please. being religious does not make you a zombie.

Christianity and most other religions guidelines or "rules" as you would call them "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" "take care of your fellow man" "thou shall not kill" and so forth exsist only for man to see how we are all alike and to care for and be kind to each other while we are on this earth.

you believe in authority I believe in myself really just means
YOU believe in every man for himself, I believe in morals and humanity.

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

christianity, more so, catholic christianity =/= morals and humanity. there are apeshit tons of "evil" christians. please don't positively stereotype yourself.

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

huh? that comment was not a steretyping of christians it was a rebuttal of a person with faith (i.e. the belief that their are morals to follow vs the guy's comment that he is only governed by himself ans so is abled to do whatever he wants based solely on what "is between his ears" while someone of faith has the same freedom but also commit themselves to a set of morals laid out by the teachings of whatever religion they subscribe to .

there are "apeshit" tons of evil PEOPLE what they happen to be-race, religion, sexual orientation, profession be damned. police are expected to follow the law, but police officers break the law all the time, however the majority can be positively stereotyped. can work either way-that was the point.


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TheDude (December 14, 2006)

"tolerating" christianity would be like tolerating white people or tolerating heterosexuals.

the whole idea of tolerance is that some things are looked down upon in society for no good reason and we must rise above that to give everyone a fair chance. christianity is the majority, it doesn't need special tolerance.

...drinking wine.. the blood of Christ.. (not joking here).

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Bigwig1022 (December 14, 2006)

...your point?

So, if you take away the intolerance, what's so bad about Christians? Are you really so petty and insecure that you would hate someone for having different spiritual beliefs than yourself?

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

hey, god-lover. spiritually is intolerance. the only thing we can put our faith in is each other, not some ghost. so to answer you, yes.

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Scruffy (December 14, 2006)

Yeah, 'cept that whole idea is still a faith. It's still a religious belief. I'm not your mom. You don't have to offend me to prove how independent you are.

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

that was offensive? saying that I believe in human beings not a ghost?

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

You put your faith in human beings? How's that working out for you?

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

sigh...

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davebrave4 (December 14, 2006)

comment of the hour.

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

/bump

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misterspike (December 14, 2006)

A t-shirt waiting to be made.

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Scruffy (December 14, 2006)

Work on your reading comprehension.

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FuckYouOiOiOi (December 14, 2006)

i know religion is stupid. but spirituality is not and it can lead you to a richer and more fulfilling life.

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YasserBossin (December 14, 2006)

1/3 the way down the page...nazis!

http://www.punknews.org/article/21293

You rule at what? Lacking the slightest grasp of grade school grammar, capitalization and punctuation?

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

why dont you PRAY for me. fucking idiot

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Scruffy (December 14, 2006)

I have no idea what that means. See, you started the sentence with the word "why", which would indicate that it's a question, but you ended it with a period, which would indicate that it's a declarative statement. What are you trying to say? Can you speak English?

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

Ok here. Is this the only way you can understand someone? If they use perfect spelling and punction? Because I guarantee you, this is one argument you will lose. You are just trying to deflect the real issue: that you are scared to die, and therefore put your faith in something intangible. To me, that is the definition of pathetic. There is no easy answer to life, but figuring it out is what makes being alive fun. So pray for me, asshole.

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

punctuation. see, that was god fucking me. it felt kinda good though

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Scruffy (December 14, 2006)

Honestly? Your original post was nothing but childish rabble-rousing, so I decided to be a childish little prick right back to get your goat. And it worked.
Do you honestly think that people who believe are just afraid to die? I wish I could look at the world that simply. Maybe it's hard to comprehend if you don't believe in it, but eternity scares the HELL out of me. A lot of times I think I'd be more comforted by the thought that I would cease to exist when I died. But what I want does not dictate what I believe to be true.
The definition of pathetic is believing that there is no way you could be wrong, and that anyone who believes in something is just afraid.

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

well, im tired. and religion is awful. but your band is pretty good. so, please, lets all just agree that god sucks, ok? i mean really.

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Scruffy (December 14, 2006)

Well, thanks for the compliment. You'll pleased to know that the other singer is basically a nihilist.
Religion is awful. God is not. That's my thing.

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Allular (December 14, 2006)

I like the cut of your jib Scruffy.

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Archangel (December 14, 2006)

Look, as an English Lit major I can seriously identify with your appreciation of the rules of the language, but you're going overboard here. Yeah, this guy's an idiot, but you have an idea of what he means, so just calm down. You're not as funny as you think you are.

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Nick_V (December 14, 2006)

I was thinking the exact same thing as Archangel. I kept expecting to hear the snap of a steel ruler on a desktop.

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

hellz yes, grammar is for losers

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tylerdurden8136 (December 14, 2006)

and nazis.

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

and christians

better get down on your knees, boy, better pray to our god his name is...GREED

I will try to check out this guys book but not for the god part, just for the stories. I think it is probably a good book but I will disagree with a majority of it. The ignorant people are the ones who just right it off because it has to do with god.

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

The God part is a relatively small part of the book. It's really just an autobiography, but it had a profound impact on my life.

Well you seem so unbiased, educated and open to other peoples views, I'd be a fool not to listen to you.
-Dante

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Archangel (December 14, 2006)

Hahaha, win.

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

yeah standing up for what you believe in is stupid!

uh...wait...

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Dante3000 (rich) (December 14, 2006)

Phrases like, "dipshit atheist", "shittalkers with an internet connection" and the jab about being close minded are not standing up for what you believe in. They are unneeded barbs thrown in to insult people who don't believe the same thing you do.
-Dante

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Bigwig1022 (December 14, 2006)

And you arent biased and open to other people's views, Mr. Dante? I'm sure there are people on this site simply waiting for your next post...

from my experience most atheists i've spoken to and know are that because of the hypocrisy in religion. i completely understand their feeling in that. and i am a christian myself. it's true most of all christian religions do not teach what the bible actually says. they teach what will keep people coming back to them. and what will frighten them to not look at what the bible really says. i've also had friends who stopped going to the church they went to because they expected them to give so much money a month. they became agnostic. i understand taht as well. i'm not trying to get preachy. and you may not have meant it as something so negative, but i j ust wouldn't go trashing atheists. most of them i know are better people than christians i know. but if it is someone who is just trying to be "punk" then its pathetic.

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Dakotacore (December 14, 2006)

I am an atheist because of the hypocrisy in religion and because I am a firm believer in science. I did not become an atheist because it was "punk". I am an atheist because of personal beliefs and experiences. I was an atheist before I started even listening to punk music. I know, like you icewater, a lot of atheists who lead better lives than many of my Christian friends. Some of them use their religion as a get out of jail free card of sorts. All of the atheists I know have become so after being raised in religious households and deciding for themselves what the best way to live their life is. I hold no contempt for people who are religious and I enjoy having arguments about religion with all of my Christian friends (even if it never goes anywhere). The only problem is when you meet someone who, like the original poster, is unable to look at both sides of the coin.

pretty much.

See, if everyone could have that "Live and let live" stance, we'd all be better off.

Though, I will say that what you describe isn't quite how salvation/damnation works.

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

yeah, wouldnt it be nice if christians could live and let live. oh wait, they cant because anyone who doesnt accept jesus christ as their lord and saviour is going to hell. fuck you and your little god too.

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Scruffy (December 14, 2006)

Last I recall, I have not once said "fuck you" to you.
Stop assuming all Christians are bigoted televangelists intent on forcing their religion on everyone. I only post about religion when one of you intolerant faux-rebellious kids says "SCREW RELIGION!!!OMG!!!LOL!!!" on a punk site like you're so revolutionary.

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ilikepunkrock (December 14, 2006)

Well I don't know exactly what everything in the bible says and I don't really care to because in one part it says if a child disobeys his/her parents that child should be stoned to death by the townspeople. It is in Deurterotomy (sp?) and someone told me that is no longer recognized, but how can something in the bible be recognized and something else can't be?

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

because its ALL LIES

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Scruffy (December 14, 2006)

If you are truly interested in this, AIM me at boxcar001101. I love to talk about theology.

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ilikepunkrock (December 14, 2006)

I don't have AIM on this computer, but I do love talking about this stuff, last year I took a class called, "The Idea of God," coolest class I have taken so far. Marcus Borg was an amazing teacher (he is big in the Christian community, he writes books and does other stuff).

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Allular (December 14, 2006)

Every law in the Old Testament, Levitical and Deuteronomy for me points to Jesus. The reason why it's no longer recognized because the Christian belief is that Jesus paid through his death so that we can no longer live by those laws.

I personally think The Ten Commandments were the biggest thing pointing towards the need for Jesus.

I suggest everyone to read "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel. It's a pretty well articulated and thought out book for you all who are actually interested in some logical points about Jesus and are open minded enough to check it out. Open minded is what punk rock is about... right?

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

"Open minded is what punk rock is about... right?"

Not on this website...anyone who has taken the time to sign up for an account on here should know that by now

your ramble doesn't make much sense either.

i find it disturbing that religion is so intolerant in daily life. FUCK RELIGION

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SuperRad (December 14, 2006)

I'll agree with you that religion in general is intollerant in a lot of ways, but I still think religious freedom and tollerance is important.

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Rastid (December 14, 2006)

how the fuck can religion be intolerant. when's the last time religion fucking did anything. religious people are intolerant. and atheists are intolerant of religious people.

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MonkeyFracas (December 14, 2006)

Not all atheists. When I was an atheist of sorts, I never knocked anyone for their beliefs.

well most people in the punk rock community think religion is a hoax and it is hard for a lot of people to have tolerance for something you strongly don't believe in. Ex. Would you have tolerance for Nazi's or the Ku Klux Klan? I know I don't have any and strongly dislike those fuckers but that doesn't make it right.

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SuperRad (December 14, 2006)

Yeah, I feel the same way. I hate those guys but then again they can say what they want. It's their right, and if I want to keep my rights, I gotta let them have theirs. It's borderline bullshit, but personal rights is something I don't want to fuck with. It seems like we've already given up so much, you know?

In case we do a roll call, I do not dislike religion. I think a lot of the major Christain sects tend to be a little judgmental and full of themselves.
But I don't think there's anything wrong with a belief in God or a particular religion.
-Dante

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

who cares. clerks sucks

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punkbytheounce (December 14, 2006)

Wrong.

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SuperRad (December 14, 2006)

Totally.

Or Hindus, or black people, or anyone else it'd get flamed on for about 150 posts...

it's like saying "all christians are a bunch of bible toting, god thumping, in favor of capital punishment idiots" is somehow better than saying "all muslims are towel wearing, world trade center bombing idiots" in the punk rock community.

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

right. and what about native americans and pretty much any group of people originally from the western hemisphere? it was imposible for the spread of any religion to come over here, but oh well guys, tough shit? fuck that.

i'm just as skeptical on religion and tend to go for the whole idea that "as humans, what do we know?".

cuz throw al the science you want right in my face and who's to say that in 400 years we'll find out it's wrong just like we found out the sun doesn't revolve around the earth and that the planet isn't flat.

blasphemy!

haha, atheists are so stupid. especielly when they treat atheism like a religion and try to shove it down other peopls' throats. fuckin dipshits.

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

congratulations, you're hitting the atheist-gone-asshole strawman set up by the right wing. easily manipulated dick that you are.

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FuckYouOiOiOi (December 14, 2006)

if you read his comment you'll see my description of him 'shoving atheism down peoples' throats' is right on.

and what the fuck does belief in god have to do with right or left wing?

I don't know how you can claim abortion is wrong? There is so much more to each case of abortion then a person who hasn't experience it will ever understand.

abortion is wrong? go fuck yourself

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SuperRad (December 14, 2006)

dude, ok...listen, he...

oh nevermind.

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

ha. we all get sucked into this stuff (well, at least i do) but i would like to think that at the end of the day we're all just dorks on the computer. am i wrong?

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SuperRad (December 14, 2006)

haha, yeah, you're right.

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

You retard, he didn't claim abortion was wrong. He was repeating what his church was implying to show the hypocrisy of it.

You big bag of dumbshit.

Don't judge Christ on man's actions. You've got imperfect people everywhere who believe in Christ, Buddha or maybe nothing at all.

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Dante3000 (rich) (December 14, 2006)

I don't judge based on mans actions. That's what I was saying. I really believe in religion, I just dislike most churches.
-Dante

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Dante3000 (rich) (December 14, 2006)
*sigh* alright, let's do the same run around. I don't dislike Mr. Bakker due to his last name, I dislike someone else deciding (or allowing it to be decided) that they fit the moniker of a "punk preacher".
Anyhow, I wrote what I wrote on little sleep at the end of my day. Misspelling "accepting" is the least of the issues, wouldn't you think? I never said that a Christain shouldn't need to accept Jesus as his savior, that is clear. However, many churches still believe, regardless of strength of character, non-christains go to hell. Sure it's not all but that's pretty fucked, none the less.

As for the antiabortion deal. Yes, of course it's going to be anti-abortion, duh. But why is there no alternative taught? Abstinence works, but when it fails it ussually does so without a back up plan and that's when teenagers get knocked up. It's a fact t

show rest of comment*sigh* alright, let's do the same run around. I don't dislike Mr. Bakker due to his last name, I dislike someone else deciding (or allowing it to be decided) that they fit the moniker of a "punk preacher".
Anyhow, I wrote what I wrote on little sleep at the end of my day. Misspelling "accepting" is the least of the issues, wouldn't you think? I never said that a Christain shouldn't need to accept Jesus as his savior, that is clear. However, many churches still believe, regardless of strength of character, non-christains go to hell. Sure it's not all but that's pretty fucked, none the less.

As for the antiabortion deal. Yes, of course it's going to be anti-abortion, duh. But why is there no alternative taught? Abstinence works, but when it fails it ussually does so without a back up plan and that's when teenagers get knocked up. It's a fact that proper sexual education and safe sex education lower the rate of pregnancy. So why can't that be taught along with anti-abortion? Oh right, because some old, unmarried virgin in the Vatican decided that condoms are a sin.

Like I've said and always will, I think religion and faith are super. I believe in a god and I believe in a lot of other things taught by various churches. I simply don't believe there has ever been one on this Earth that has gotten it 100% right. I probably don't have it 100% either, but at least I'm not relinquishing my judgment to someone else to get it wrong. As for Mr. Bakker, I just really don't need someone else going about some hokey ass gimmick to tell me God loves me, esspecially a guy who I probably wouldn't talk to on the street.
-Dante
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misterspike (December 14, 2006)
"... especially a guy who i probably wouldn't talk to on the street".

hahaha nice. good point.

I wasn't singling you out, Dante, as far as disliking Bakker "due to his last name." That was really directed at the anonymous posters that, as soon as they see the name, scream bloody murder without even bothering to read the cited article.

I agree about teaching alternatives, but it's preaching to the choir. Christian school have very obvious agendas, and want to churn out good little anti-abortion activists. These are the same people that will have a 4-year old hold signs at anti-abortion rallies.

"Accepting" v. "Excepting" ... you have to admit that's a pretty fucking good typo. There aren't too many that are screaming opposites like that.

"Like I've said and always will, I think religion and faith are super. I bel

show rest of comment"... especially a guy who i probably wouldn't talk to on the street".

hahaha nice. good point.

I wasn't singling you out, Dante, as far as disliking Bakker "due to his last name." That was really directed at the anonymous posters that, as soon as they see the name, scream bloody murder without even bothering to read the cited article.

I agree about teaching alternatives, but it's preaching to the choir. Christian school have very obvious agendas, and want to churn out good little anti-abortion activists. These are the same people that will have a 4-year old hold signs at anti-abortion rallies.

"Accepting" v. "Excepting" ... you have to admit that's a pretty fucking good typo. There aren't too many that are screaming opposites like that.

"Like I've said and always will, I think religion and faith are super. I believe in a god and I believe in a lot of other things taught by various churches. I simply don't believe there has ever been one on this Earth that has gotten it 100% right."

-- 100% agreed.

Wow. Some actual intelligent posts between people on here. I should mark my calendar.
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Allular (December 14, 2006)

I appreciate you're having an actual conversation about this.

Anywho. I don't feel like judging Bakker's character or life ("gimmick"?) is a positive action. We don't know what Jay's life looks like. For all we know, you, Jay and I could have a beer in a bar together and probably get along.

I don't think his "gimmick" is something he's portrayed on himself. I'm pretty sure the media did that.

ive read that book, and its really eye-opening. made me a darwinist, by golly!

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northenden (December 14, 2006)

shit, really? maybe you should go read "the education of henry adams" to take care of that pesky darwinism. i kid. and i agree--hamer's book: she's an eye-opener. i don't think it's necessarily an enlightening book per se, but it certainly un-bolts a lot of things that we've just assumed were bolted down from the religious get-go.

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

exactly. if you know where that pesky urge to believe in a higher power comes from, its easier to put things in perspective and focus on whats really important, the new d4 album!

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northenden (December 14, 2006)

ha! revolutionary. i bet it's on hamer's ipod.

holy fuck that was terrible, but I can't stop listening

My brain hurts from listening to that

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

horrible, yet strangely horrible and addictive yet awesome yet awful.

care to elaborate?

What grounds?

i believe if you like titties you are only going to hell if you are a girl

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tylerdurden8136 (December 14, 2006)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Holy fuck dude, that was funnier than it should have been.

and turn this boring water into awesome wine!

What about all those times in the Book of John where Jesus Himself claimed to be God? It's either he is who he is or he's just crazy and not a "good" man.

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woodandiron (December 14, 2006)

The Bible was written by a bunch of self-serving humans who wanted to make Jesus divine.

He may never have claimed divinity but others may have put those words in his mouth.

It's the teachings about how to live with one another that matter the most, not all the extra crap that makes religion bloated and useless.

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Rastid (December 14, 2006)

i'm a jew, and i think this is retarded.

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lol_omg_wtf_nambla (December 14, 2006)
If brothers are living together and one of them dies without a son, his widow must not marry outside the family. Her husband's brother shall take her and marry her and fulfill the duty of a brother-in-law to her. The first son she bears shall carry on the name of the dead brother so that his name will not be blotted out from Israel. However, if a man does not want to marry his brother's wife, she shall go to the elders at the town gate and say, "My husband's brother refuses to carry on his brother's name in Israel. He will not fulfill the duty of a brother-in-law to me." Then the elders of his town shall summon him and talk to him. If he persists in saying, "I do not want to marry her," his brother's widow shall go up to him in the presence of the elders, take off one of his sandals, spit in his face and say, "This is what is done to the man who will not build u

show rest of commentIf brothers are living together and one of them dies without a son, his widow must not marry outside the family. Her husband's brother shall take her and marry her and fulfill the duty of a brother-in-law to her. The first son she bears shall carry on the name of the dead brother so that his name will not be blotted out from Israel. However, if a man does not want to marry his brother's wife, she shall go to the elders at the town gate and say, "My husband's brother refuses to carry on his brother's name in Israel. He will not fulfill the duty of a brother-in-law to me." Then the elders of his town shall summon him and talk to him. If he persists in saying, "I do not want to marry her," his brother's widow shall go up to him in the presence of the elders, take off one of his sandals, spit in his face and say, "This is what is done to the man who will not build up his brother's family line." That man's line shall be known in Israel as The Family of the Unsandaled. (Deuteronomy 25:5-10)

Yep, Jews are totally exonerated from inane supersicious bullshit.
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woodandiron (December 14, 2006)

All I'm saying is don't worship anyone or anything.

Just apply "be nice and help others" to daily life.

And supernatural shit doesn't happen.

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lol_omg_wtf_nambla (December 14, 2006)

Of course. It's not supernatural if the wine shows up right in front of your face. I used to be able to say that most people who "worshiped" something were not, by definition, racist, paranoied, homophobes, but alas I don't think I can claim that anymore. Y'all know that song "Oi Oi Skinhead"? I think Xtians in the ol' US of A have got a similar problem.

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Allular (December 14, 2006)

What kind of argument is that? Where's your opinions coming from? Solid thought out and well researched or just what you've fed your whole life?

And Christianity aside, try telling people's religion is useless. You have no idea what kind of good religion does in some people's lives. You can't tell me ever since I've been a Christian (two years ago) that it's been "useless" in my life.

john kerry

john kerry

John Stamos

John Denver

bob saget

Maine.

its the best thing you'll hear for the next 5 years
the end

any questions? listen to all 3 cds and you should have none (personally i was more of a fan of the singer songwriter type stuff from the ealry/ mid 70's and disc 3 made me a fan of some of the more experimental stuff)

its the best thing you'll hear for the next 5 years
the end

any questions? listen to all 3 cds and you should have none (personally i was more of a fan of the singer songwriter type stuff from the ealry/ mid 70's and disc 3 made me a fan of some of the more experimental stuff)

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BTown (December 14, 2006)

it made more sense the second time; thanks!
I was planning on buying it, i was just surprised no one reviewed it yet.

Fuck Brand New.

Recently, whenever I hear someone say "Jesus Christ," that song immediately comes to mind.

By "interesting conversations" you mean a crapload of people shit talking something they don't believe in or want anything to do with?

Punknews is hardly the place to have an intelligent discussion about anything. Whenever someone tries to, it's ruined. I'm surprised nobody has caught on to that yet.

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NickDanger (December 14, 2006)

Well, that's just like everyday life. Can't get around it. Go to class, you'll have at least a few simpletons to deal with. Go to work, go to shows... they're everywhere.

Might as well just applaud those who can think with reason, and ignore the rest.

p.s. i

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onegirlarmy (December 14, 2006)

very good point.

wolf blitzer, zionist extraordinaire!

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

so, david duke is awesome. i agree with you

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

so, david duke is awesome. i agree with you

I heard Jesus was black... I like to think of my Jesus kinda like Sam Jackson...

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lol_omg_wtf_nambla (December 14, 2006)

Actually, Jesus wasn't much of an actor.

I would punch them in the face.

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FresnoSka (December 14, 2006)

So would you punch Bad Religion in the face too?

Good point.

I love how this country is so quick to fuck Chirstians in the ass, yet every other religion is "okay" when it comes to school and other public shit. I mean, the fucking postal service has a muslim christmas stamp, yet anythign Christian is taboo.

Either ban all or allow all. Fuck this pick and choose shit.

The war on christmas was instigated by fannatical leftists?Uhhhhh doesn't Bill O' Riley fit in hear somewhere?

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ilikepunkrock (December 14, 2006)

True that, the war on Christmas is being created by Rush Limbagh and all of these far right no compassion people who believe that everyone should believe in god and if you don't believe in god you are a kool-aid drinker.

Atheists are usually critical of all religions. You just hear more about their criticisms of Christianity since there's an assload of Christians in the US.

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

Why do they need to be critical about anything at all? It seems like a large idea behind both punk and atheism si not ebing subject to anyone else's rules or whatever that you don't belive in. That's fine. But then why try to make me believe in your rules? If someone is just indoctrinated by Christians or whoever, that's not right. But if you are knowledgable about a lot of different viewpoints and pick one, how does that make you stupid or worthy of criticism. I've studied a lot of different religions and read many major religious books, and I am Catholic. And I've listened to punk for a long time, listeded to bands saying "fuck religion" and all that, and I am still Catholic. Why can't people respect my opinion and my decision regarding my faith? I respect everyone else's.

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

"Do What You Want"

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ilikepunkrock (December 14, 2006)

A quote everyone should live by

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

Very well said, someeone. This site needs more posterse like you.

Because Muslims and Jews account for less than 2% of religious people in America. Christians account for 82% of religious people in America.

If you wear an anti- Star of David logo, you're just plain stupid. If you want to be associated with the KKK go ahead and wear it, I have no problem.

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Someone (December 22, 2006)

Yeah, but what about the 3 jewish people that live in that town? That town hall that is meant to be for everyone is now supporting another religion. It doesn't matter whats on their front lawn because their front lawn isn't supposed to represent everyone.

Every year in Iceland, many people claim to see elves and trolls. As for Jesus, I think I still have a cousin that thinks he's Jesus. So its not all hearsay, there are some eyewitness accounts.

yeah it's not like the bible is a historical document or anything...

retard.

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woodandiron (December 14, 2006)

It's not. Do you actually believe that God created the entire universe in 7 days? Or a giant flood wiped out the world except for Noah and his paired off animals (every single species, even ones we haven't discovered yet, because evolution is a crock, right?)? Or that Moses parted the Red Sea? Or that Jesus turned water into wine? Rose from the dead?

Historical documents need to be a bit more factual than those fables above.

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abe (December 14, 2006)

The gospels are a historical document written after Jesus's death.That is hearsay.The gospels themselves are copies of copies.There was not one scribe,historian or writer who wrote about this man during his lifetime.It is impossible to have a lieral account of the things this man said.I am simplifying this because everyone just takes for granted that Jesus existed.As far as anyone can tell his story is a fable and it should be treated like one.

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Someone (December 15, 2006)

The Jewish historian Josephus wrote about Jesus.

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ilikepunkrock (December 14, 2006)

That was a great response way to back Jesus with evidence

Have you ever seen a million dollars? No? But do you stil believe that a million dollars exists? Believing isn't seeing, seeing is believing.

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

fuck you. you are scum and you dont exist

Have you ever seen a million dollars? No? But do you stil believe that a million dollars exists? Seeing isn't believing. Believing is seeing.

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lol_omg_wtf_nambla (December 14, 2006)

That's some metaphysical shit right there. Does that work for an all Truman Capote look-alike AC/DC cover band? I will believe in that 'till the cows come home if that's what it takes.

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ilikepunkrock (December 14, 2006)

I have seen hundreds and hundreds of dollars which leads a person to believe there is a million dollars. I have read parts bible and it doesn't lead me to believe there is a great god.

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

Have you seen a purple alien with eyes for thumbs and thumbs for eyes? No? Well seeing isn't believing.

That's not accurate...while the evidence for Jesus might be circumstantial...there is a lot of it.

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abe (December 14, 2006)

Jesus has been written about endlessly...after the fact.Just because christianity is the biggest religion in the world doesn't substantiate it.All the supposed evidence of Christ is Hearsay.The gospels themselves are copies of copies of copies.It is impossible to have a literal account of this man.That relegates his legacy to fairytales.

actually, there is historical proof that Jesus existed...at least in human form.

we were discussing this in my history class not to long ago...the census that is mentioned in the bible actually did take place, and there i a record, in the Bethlehem section, that mentionss a man named jospeh and his wife mary (well the ancient hebrew equivilants) who registered and it listed Mary as being pregnant

it may be a coincidence, but damn if it isnt a good one

that being said, personally, religion isnt my thing....i used to believe but i dont see the point in organized religion anymore...id rather live by my own code of conduct, and do good for my reasons...NOT to get a reward when i die.

Pliny the Elder and Josephus both have separate historical accounts of Jesus being around the time time the bible says he was. The bible is also very accurate when it comes down to historical details, everything that has been questioned has eventually been answered by either someone else's writing or archeological evidence.

No one has any evidence that he didn't exist. It's crazy to try and figure this out. How do we know Columbus ever existed? Because it was written in a book. How do we know anything? Because we either saw it, or someone else saw it and wrote it down/told somebody else. The difference between Jesus and magic elves is that magic elves never showed up in a historically acurate book that is accepted as history. Just because you can't PROVE it, that makes it not real? There's a zillion things that we can't prove. So does that mean that a zillion things weren't real?

I think the only way most people today would believe in Jesus is if they saw a video of him on youtube or if they read his updates on his myspace page.

Some of these people's arguments and comments are paper thin.

Well, there's also a group of people such as the Unitarian Universalists, who believe Jesus actually existed and did many worthwhile causes for humanity, but they think he was merely a man whom should be followed in terms of morality. They don't believe he was a spirtual figure, deity, or the son of God.

So yeah, it IS possible to think Jesus existed but not in a religious standpoint.

The Old Testament was written WELL before the New Testament. Look at the prophesies of the Messiah and compare them with the Gospels. It is quite uncanny that they ALL match. Could it all be some big hoax written by conspiring men over thousands of years? That takes ALOT MORE faith to me than actually believing Jesus was and is the Christ that came to take our sins and bring us back to God.

Has Propagandhi really last that much popularity that no one is going to keep this quote going?

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ilikepunkrock (December 14, 2006)

That is the coolest god song I have ever heard, much respect to whoever wrote it.

You know, I think the third time convinced me and the entire world. Congrats, no more problems!

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KurtTGS (December 14, 2006)

I was sold halfway through the second time.

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

That's because my computer couldn't post it the first time fast enough.

I always think its weird when people talk about Christian indocrination. When you're in a position like Bakker's you're no longer at a point where you're being indocrinated. If anyone had a good reason to leave Christianity it was him but yet something about it made him stay. But no, the reason anyone is a Christian is because they're told to be one. Christianity doesn't require any independent thought or intellect.

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sickboi (chris) (December 14, 2006)

yet something about it made him stay

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

sorry about the double post.

hey, moron, being christian is a choice. therefore, all your stupid shit goes out the window. fuck you for trying to reframe this argument, and how dare you compare hating an ideology to racism. fuck off

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IKnowNothing (December 14, 2006)

I don't think being Christian is a choice any more than being gay is a choice. You don't choose who you're attracted to anymore than you can choose what you believe.

However, when you act like an ass and try to force your beliefs down other people's throats that is a choice. Christians aren't the only the only ones who choose to act this way, they just happen to be the ones who are most visible at the moment.

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Someone (December 14, 2006)
how is it different? here is the point being made that you convientiently missed:

"a relatively small group of people do not speak for the masses in any category, be it gender, race, religion, sexuality, etc... judging the whole category on what some outspoken and intolerant few choose to say and do is point-blank ridiculous"

this is not comparing the hating of IDEOLOGY to the hating of racism, it is comparing the hating of someone who HAPPENS to be CHRISTIAN to the hating of some one who happens to be black. if these were comments on whysomeone happen to believe in what you believe in rather than numerous post straight out stereotyping and bashing an ENTIRE group of people, then there wouldn't be a problem.

PS choice or not hating someone based on anything other than their individual personality is JUST PLAIN WRONG AND IGNORANT

p.p

show rest of commenthow is it different? here is the point being made that you convientiently missed:

"a relatively small group of people do not speak for the masses in any category, be it gender, race, religion, sexuality, etc... judging the whole category on what some outspoken and intolerant few choose to say and do is point-blank ridiculous"

this is not comparing the hating of IDEOLOGY to the hating of racism, it is comparing the hating of someone who HAPPENS to be CHRISTIAN to the hating of some one who happens to be black. if these were comments on whysomeone happen to believe in what you believe in rather than numerous post straight out stereotyping and bashing an ENTIRE group of people, then there wouldn't be a problem.

PS choice or not hating someone based on anything other than their individual personality is JUST PLAIN WRONG AND IGNORANT

p.p.s.
"fuck you for trying to reframe this argument, and how dare you compare hating an ideology to racism fuck off" pretty much proved the black guy vs. christian guy point.

Well, I guess there still are some people that believe in linking coincidencial reasoning like that, but for the most part, this argument doesn't really make any sense. Stereotyping does exist still, but I doubt anyone here would find that kind of reasoning as a truly passable argument. After all Michael Richards hasn't proven to be the hidden link to the Anti-Black Semetic League.

But, I guess the bigger problem with this analysis is that you're taking what a few people have said, (If that. I'm not sure I've read anything in here damning all Christians for being homophobes, or that Christianity being Gay-friendly is not a tangible enough to grasp. I'm sure it's a possibility and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but I can't remember if I read something like that or not), and now seem to be in disbelief that any of us Non-Christians can grasp that concept.

ha, because they sell those.

wait. i work there, and we don't!

shut the fuck up.

hot topic, and most places like it, aren't for or against religion.

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

Try and not confuse the words don't and won't because I'm sure Hot Topic's up-and-ups will jump onto the wagon if they think there's a profit to be turned.

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KurtTGS (December 14, 2006)

Ummmmmmm i think there was a joke in there somwehere. Chill out.

He didn't just suddenly show up. You wouldn't have known or cared about what he does until you saw it written on Punknews.

Funny story:

Almost any "atheists" who posted here were clueless fuckasses. Most "christians" has solid arguments.

Please note: I don't believe in god, i just think the dudes who were "atheists" in this thread were living, walking, stereotypical assholes.

oops that was meant to go under someone else's thread. Whatever.

Someone writing something doesn't prove shit. That's like saying that these people who claim to see the Virgin Mary in their bowl of cheerios are "evidence" of fact because a newspaper ran a story about it.

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justahippie (December 14, 2006)

so what does prove something?

Creation? What?

not true. bury your head in the sand. its safer down there

ha! very true

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

Santa doesn't exist either... all of "santa's" presents were actually bought by your parents or grandparents.

Did anybody get this?

Bakker is a needs to read his Bible.

that is awesome

You're totally right. We like to get people fired up to get them to forget about the government, especially considering that the site is run out of Canada. Keep up the good work, inspector.

This is punknews.org not CNN.com or foxnews

and I completely agree with you.

you, sir, are a grade "a" moron. that is all. peace be with me, not you. hahaha

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

Thanks for proving my point even more :)

just seeing if i'm reading your post correctly, you're saying that all punks should follow christ, and you're amazed that a large portion of us don't? there are a lot of people on here who have sort of a kneejerk reaction to anything having to do with religion, but to say that we are all wrong because we don't believe what you believe is the exact reason for the reaction. just thought i'd point that out to you

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

No that's not what I'm saying at all...I'm saying that there are alot of people on this message board who continually hate on people and their music/beliefs/whatever. Read any post about Underoath and you'll find some person saying "there is no room for God in punk music". I'm not saying that all punks should follow Christ...that is a decision that each person needs to make on their own. But don't throw a stone at the punk who does.

I agree with you, there are alot of people on here that will have a kneejerk reaction to anything having to do with religion. I used to be one of those people.

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ilikepunkrock (December 14, 2006)

Punk Rock was started with people being pissed off and people wanted something different. Being religious is not different, it has been around forever and it has always been accepted, punk rock still is not accepted many places and religion is accepted everywhere, that is one reason I think many people believe that God and Punk Rock do not mix. I am not saying this reasoning is right or wrong, it is just a reason.

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Someone (December 14, 2006)
Actually, if you look at history Christianity has not always been accepted. It wasn't popular in the Roman Empire (despite the Holy Roman Empire) as many Christians were stoned to death or put in the lions den. Fast foward to the Scientific Revolution and The Age of Enlightenment where the philosophes sought to be intellectuals, not a part of the Catholic church. I'm not saying that they were persecuted more than other groups but they had more than their fair share of abuse. And it still goes on today because of some people like Jerry Fawell and even Bush no. 43 who give Christians a bad name. Christianity does not equal Religious Right.

Religion as a whole is not accepted everywhere. Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland have just now agreed to stop this on going battle...all stemming from Protestants and Catholics....then there are the Muslims and Jews, the

show rest of commentActually, if you look at history Christianity has not always been accepted. It wasn't popular in the Roman Empire (despite the Holy Roman Empire) as many Christians were stoned to death or put in the lions den. Fast foward to the Scientific Revolution and The Age of Enlightenment where the philosophes sought to be intellectuals, not a part of the Catholic church. I'm not saying that they were persecuted more than other groups but they had more than their fair share of abuse. And it still goes on today because of some people like Jerry Fawell and even Bush no. 43 who give Christians a bad name. Christianity does not equal Religious Right.

Religion as a whole is not accepted everywhere. Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland have just now agreed to stop this on going battle...all stemming from Protestants and Catholics....then there are the Muslims and Jews, the Christians and Muslims, etc etc etc...There is not one religion that is completely accepted.

I don't think that God or religion is the cause of these wars and crusades...it's people. People who get fanatic and self righteous about what they believe.

I think Bad Religion puts it best...

When all soldiers lay their weapons down,
Or when all kings and all queens relinquish their crown,
Or when the only true messiah rescues us from ourselves...
Its easy to imagine there will be sorrow. Yeah there will be sorrow .
And there will be sorrow, no more.
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Someone (December 14, 2006)

I'm pretty sure all those wars are over religion, I never said different religions are accepted everywhere, but there is a certain religion accepted everywhere in the world, show me a region where no religion is accepted.

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

you suck.

yes, bitches who hate christians. and you are an idiot

One of the few comments that actually makes sense.

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Someone (December 14, 2006)

whatever. we all know where youre comming from. say seven hail marys, drink jesus's blood, and eat him alive.

That was awesome. Best comment of the thread.