that's 'cause all you little kiddies like to download everything.

the death of music as we know it is coming soon.

how do you expect a band to stay alive and be able to pay bills when half of their revenue is completely gone?

if you are really "punk" and want to support indie artists, then BUY THEIR RECORDS, and stop jacking everything for free. otherwise your precious "scene" is gonna be down the toilet.

i dont get it either. why buy a 10 dollar cd online and not have any artwork/whatever, when you can get an actual cd for the same price to a couple more dollars max online or at bestbuy or wherever

- jones the bones

- stevejones8770@yahoo.com

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OKSoda (April 6, 2007)

Convenience really. Its so much easier to read about an album, decide to check it out, pay 10 bucks, download it, then be on your way. Much better than waiting 4-5 days for shipping, paying for shipping, things like that.

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ThreeChordsAndTheTruth (April 6, 2007)

See in that scenario, I just (illegally) download it, and if it's good, buy the real thing. I feel like a poseur 'owning' a d/led copy (particularly a pirated one) but I'm not rich enough to just buy every record I wanna check out. The difference is that if I paid for a download, it's just the same end result as pirating it. I'd rather have a physical copy.

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Someone (April 6, 2007)

lazy cunt!!!

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The4footpartysub (April 7, 2007)

i love going to best buy or where ever and just skimming through the cds and buying whatever i'm in the mood for. and on top of that, i can actually put my cd on more than 5 computers and get the artwork. but i have to say, if labels start pressing vinyl more and give you a free download of it online, i'll just do that.

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RecordTheory (April 7, 2007)

I think we can all agree that DRM is utter bullshit. Once you purchase an album, you should have the freedom to listen to it on as many different devices as you own. While the iTunes music store has demonstrated that there is a large market for legitimate downloads, it has also intrinsically linked "overpriced cripple-ware" with "online music sales."

Once we can publicly disconnect these stigmas we can move forward with this debate.

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RecordTheory (April 7, 2007)

At the risk of being lambasted for "shameless self-promotion," I fully agree that a $9.99 downloaded album is highway robbery. Especially one that's crippled with DRM. That's why all of our downloads are $5 or less and encoded with industry-standard mp3.

I also enjoy collecting CDs and vinyl. I also am aware that there are certain costs included with the production and shipping of any physical product. When you strip away a significant percentage of the production costs, you should be expected to pass those saving on. I (obviously) believe that digital distribution is the future, but I see it as more of an opportunity to get more music to more people for less money while passing much larger profit percentages to the bands who actually create it.

I agree here. I can safely say I will never buy an album online. I love going out and buying cd's.

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Someone (April 6, 2007)

that means you live in a place where you can find them

CD sales are down because nobody's selling them anymore. Especially as the internet opens up personal taste and large label shit at big chains doesn't cut it anymore

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Someone (April 6, 2007)

you are an idiot!!!

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punkbytheounce (April 7, 2007)

No buddy, I can vouch for him. I live in a city with about 20,000 people, and it's impossible to find what I consider good music. There's even an independent record store, but they just skim the top of the punk genre and tie it together with the alternative section. The most surprising CD I ever found there new was None More Black, and they were on Fat. The only No Idea records I've ever seen were Against Me!'s back catalog. And they've cut their floor space in half twice to rent out to nail salons and a Figaro's. Meanwhile, the options don't get better as the only other places are either Wal*Mart or K-Mart.

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Someone (April 7, 2007)

You, apparently, have no grasp on what the retail side of the music industry is like in this country, right now.

you can get a CD on emusic for like $3

I often will buy CDs after downloading a couple songs. I downloaded a couple songs off the new Smoke or Fire and then bought the CD. And I will likely now buy Above the City on CD as well. I will not pay for downloads, though. Why would I pay so much for something with no physical product? Would you pick out a painting for your living room and then be satisfied when they tell you "Oh you don't actually get the painting, but you can access a really cool picture of it on the internet."??????

why would it decrease more if you increase your purchasing?

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punkbytheounce (April 7, 2007)

Jones purchases in alternate dimensions.

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Someone (April 7, 2007)

well, if one person increased their purchases drastically and that data point might need to be thrown out if it was messing up the curve

Won't hurt the bands, at all. Yes, you lose the ability to purchase the CD at the show. However, smart bands/labels will start selling download cards, so you can go home and download the record after you've spent the 8 bucks or whatever at the show.

I kind of think that a big part of g7's motivation comes from the fact that their cds aren't selling very well. They are constantly dropping hints that they made wayyyy too many cds for particular bands and that they have a ton of them left.

They were actually giving away copies of Take Penacilin Now to people who bought something at the last propagandhi show

i don't think that it would have even come up if they were selling well. Maybe they should get a good band (other than Propagandhi) and maybe people will start buying their stuff again.

once warsawpack, uhh, packed it in, it's been all downhill. (g-mac is okay)

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Someone (April 7, 2007)

Are you sure that makes sense? I bet you they still sell lots of Propagandhi and Weakerthans CDs - why would they discontinue those?

Same. And since a bunch of my cd's got stolen that I had originally paid for, I thought I was entitled to get them back for free anyway.

I'm much the same way. I'll always be a fan of having the actual CD, with the art/liner notes/etc.

cheap fucking prick!!!

Everybody says this, but the fact is that the CD sales decrease dramatically, so surely lots of people who download shit don't bother to buy CDs. And that sucks.

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Someone (April 7, 2007)

The stuff that I download that I don't buy later, is because it turns out to be shit. If they want my $, make a good album!

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misterspike (April 7, 2007)

Novel idea, sure ... but perhaps the record companies should look at their pricing structures.

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punkbytheounce (April 7, 2007)

You're basing your defense of labels on the fact that they trick people into buying shitty CDs that they don't like.

Also....same for me. Downloading a song or two from an album is a great way to test run it. By doing it, you can make great mixes and listen to them on your home stereos or in your car. You can really get a better feel for stuff that way instead of just sitting in front of a computer listen to a stream of it which can be boring. Furthermore, streaming stuff typically sounds like shit. So I am like you. Download stuff from a bunch of people to test it out, but soooo many times I end up buying the cd too so I don't feel guilty one bit. If its good, I buy it. As for the albums I don't end up buying, I would not have bought it with out finding a way to really listen to it first anyway.

i feel exactly the same way. i know i shouldn't be "afraid of change" or whatever, but still...there's nostalgia in unwrapping a new cd.

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Someone (April 6, 2007)

"Nostalgia" not really being the right word there...

I get what you're saying though.

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Someone (April 6, 2007)

fuck you NED

Just wondering, where you defending Napster back in the day??

It takes time for technology to trickle down.

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GlassPipeMurder (April 6, 2007)

certainly, but like the failed prophesy of the Buggles, video never "killed the radio star" and unfortanately for howard stern's foresight, satellite radio never fucked clear channel like he was hoping. i don't know...call me an idealist, but I was under the impression that stealing music was eventually going to be enforced, and who knows if that will ever happen.

It's the future. People have been predicting it for years while the pro downloading sect have denied it. It's happening. Sanctuary closed its US label this week. I guarantee you at least 1 sizable indie either completely closes, makes huge cut backs or goes totally digital this year.

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Someone (April 6, 2007)

Sanctuary had it's own problems. It lost their founders Rod Smallwood & Andy Taylor, a couple of their artists left the label, and got too large to manage so they had to close the North American division. This is nothing new or unusual. They can blame digital downloads all they want, but record companies have been going in and out of business all the time. A "sizable" "indie" label may follow the same path if they do same mistakes Sanctuary or V2 made. They're probably not really indie labels if they do the same practices that major labels do.

Besides selling digital downloads, I don't see this happening to Touch & Go, Dischord, any self-run label operation, or heck even SST.

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Someone (April 6, 2007)

V2 hardly ran like a major.
And, I'm not saying downloading was the sole reason any of the recent happenings have occurred, but it's certainly contributing. In the past 6 months, we've seen Suburban Home come close to closing up shop, Fat lay people off and go on a signing freeze. It's going to happen.

not to mention he hates plastic!

That wouldn't have even been funny seven years ago.

fack

i agree

dude they're already on the way out!

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Someone (April 6, 2007)

You are already out piss off

They will continue to make CDs. I highly doubt they will stop making them, especially by 2009. I do understand the wastefullness that is from cds..however a lot of people don't throw away the plastic jewel cases and you can always have your cd in a digipack made with fully recyled paper.

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Someone (April 7, 2007)

Digipacks are much more expensive than jewel cases.
More than half of CD consumers toss packaging.

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TheMike (April 6, 2007)

Well said

vinyl on it's way out 2010 sorry kYLE!!!

Within 5 years, the "CD market" will be almost comparable to the vinyl market. Granted there will be more people buying discs than vinyl, but it will be in the same condition cassettes were in after a few years of CDs. Digitial is just the new format, and WILL eventually outdate CDs, just as cassettes were outdated. CDs will eventually be a collectors market, for those who really want liner notes, physical packaging, etc. Myspace and webpages are slowly replacing the need for that, anyway,.

I'm lost for words.

you should have paid attention last year in your freshman english class.

Um...I want the Music.

fUCK g7

you're a douche. Prop's next album will be on CD. Way to fuck over some good guys that work hard to make music. I hope someone steals money from your house.

Exactly, i agre 100%

Tangibility is a good thing. I like the immediacy of downloadable music, but I do missing flipping through the liner notes.

artwork doesn't matter? tell that to Crass or the Flaming Lips or the AKAs or any other artist that does mixed media.

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Someone (April 6, 2007)

maybe i will...

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Someone (April 6, 2007)

You tell'em


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Someone (April 7, 2007)

The AKAs??

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Someone (April 7, 2007)

http://www.punknews.org/article/22687 Mike Ski is a really nice guy.

No you would rather sit around with your boyfriends cock in your mouth

Burn it onto a backup.

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tenwestchaser (April 7, 2007)

Why should you have to do that? That also takes time. Then you have to take the time label everything if you want to keep track of them etc. Fuck that. You buy a cd (which usually ends up being CHEAPER than paying $1 a track, which is ridiculous for one song), you have permenant back up, an easily storable and trackable case as soon as you buy it. Plus, who doesn't love going to CD shops and digging through all the used CD's and scoring really great stuff for like 7 dollars? You just can't beat that.

I'm in ur p2p, stealing ur musikz.

This is very true. Most places tend to us mp3s, were as the sound files on CDs are essentially wav files, and are of far higher quality then any mp3 can give you. They could start selling wav files, but most people have iPods which don't play wav files, it would cost more, and take far longer to download. Also am I the only one that notices that on iPods you lose a lot of the bass.

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Someone (April 7, 2007)

I thought Ipods did play WAVS?

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Someone (April 7, 2007)

You can mod an iPod to play WAVS. My friend put Linux on his

I don't know which places are using 128kb mp3s anymore... eMusic has been using variable bit rate mp3s for several years now.

The Stooges?? The record I've yet to hear a good review of, whether it be from old fan, new fan, or media?

You're hitting the nail on the head. The fact is, most music buyers are NOT hardcore music fans, by a long shot.

Me too. I even enjoy vinyl. But, how about looking at a band's site for lyrics, bio, notes, etc? It's there a good portion of the time.

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todddd (April 7, 2007)

"But, how about looking at a band's site for lyrics, bio, notes, etc? "

that just doesn't seem to have the same feeling to it...first of all, you're sitting in front of a computer, instead of lying down!

secondly, often you can only find the lyrics on a lyrics site...which is usually an unattractive page with advertising for porn and tons of pop up windows. (and then you're supporting those types of sites that have nothing to do with music whatsoever)

i'd like to see more bands create digital environments for their releases...like make a little webpage with all of the lyrics and artwork, done in the theme of the album...that way, you could read the lyrics and get a bit more of a feel for what they were trying to create

That's a great gift. Send it to me if you don't want it.

That's what, eventually, websites will be fore. You realize, websites or myspaces or whatever are the new "packaging," right?

Oh fucking knock it off. We know already, ok? Someday, in the "future" it'll be out on No Idea. We get it. The 5000 people in the US that still buy rock vinyl (and yeah, the number's pretty much that small), know. OK? For the rest of the galaxy, the shit's "digital only." You realize, a large portion of consumers don't even realize they still make vinyl, right????

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Someone (April 7, 2007)

Actually vinyl sales are up quite a bit to almost a million being sold last year. Yes 550 million CDs were sold, but its coming back strong. Don't be pissed cuz you dont have a record player.

You're partially correct. The "regular guy" who buys the CDs for the "song on the radio" is now just downloading the song. That's REALLY where downloading is actually hurting. It's not hurting the NOFXs or the Underoaths. It's effecting the major label pop stars, which, in turn, is having a trickle down effect on the whole business. You do realize, when the majors start to really flounder, it's going to totally fuck what's left of retail and leave them unable to compete, right?

In theory, a new CD should be around 7-8 bucks. you SHOULD be able to find it for around 10. If you're paying more than 10-12, then maybe you're just lazy or stupid.

Wow, now this is tunnel vision...

The cost of a CD is not just $1. That's only the cost of PHYSICALLY REPRODUCING THE MUSIC. You haven't said a thing about the cost of recording, mixing, mastering, marketing and distributing the CD. How exactly are labels or or even independent artists supposed to recover those costs by charging $5 for a CD at retail including all markups for the retailer?

It always boggles my mind when people bring up your argument. Your viewpoint is so incredibly simplistic and poorly thought out that it amazes me you were even able to figure out how to turn on your computer to type it. Congradulations on figuring out how to freeload off of every other music fans dollar who decided to actual pay for the process of music creation with their purchase. You are a selfish prick.

I don't know about you, but my job supports my New Found Glory habit. Ever heard of one of those?

I agree with you. And, all the bonus shit you mention, is stuff that labels are doing to try to keep you buying traditional CDs.

well said

Yes....I could not have agreed more with everything you have said. Because of the reasons you listed and the reasons I've listed above, CD's won't be fading out. Yeah, sales might decline, but there are way too many people who realize that buying a CD is so much more superior for so many reasons then paying for a download. This can be a good thing though because record labels will save money by simply pressing less copies but, I'm telling you, a hard copy of an album won't be fading out. They just make too much sense.

Or look at some of the acts major lables tried giving a chance to, serisouly who the fuck thought A Static Lullaby would be selling millions especially when they have a "singer" who said like three lines per shit song. Is anyone else suprised Thurday got dropped from Island, if you were you are dumb.

I agree. Plus, you are FUCKINg hot! Do you have a band of your own?