Make this YOUR country

Contributed by reelbigjov. Posted by Aubin on Friday, August 16, 2002 at 1:11 AM (EDT)

"Fat Mike, NOFX, Fat Wreck Chords, and Michael Moore have started an anti-George W. Bush Site.
It's called punkvoter.com. There's not much there yet, but a mailing list is imminent. It also features a nice Terry Gilliam-esque Bush. It's cute, but the severe lack of (younger) voter turn out is a major problem; I hope Mike succeeds in getting it some due attention. Remember the old saying, "if you don't vote, don't bitch."

Punk Voter (130 comments)

Please login or register to post comments.What are the benefits of having a Punknews.org account?

Share your opinion by posting comments on the stories that interest you
Rate music and bands and help shape the weekly top ten
Let Punknews.org use your ratings to help you find bands and albums you might like
Customize features on the site to get the news the way you want.

Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not respon sible for them in any way. Seriously.

Someone (August 16, 2002)

It is this kind of thing that makes me hate Fat Mike, NoFX, and Fat Wreck Chords. I really would like to know who Mike wants to see as President of the United States. That fuck Nader? I'm sure his environmental policy would help us out alot, except when we are in economic turmoil the minute OPEC makes barrels of oil more expensive and we have none of our oil to fall back on. And, while inflation rises because of that (it has happened before, check out the 1970s and Carter), his complete and total lack of a foreign policy for the defense of this country will leave us open for attacks from everyone from Iraq to some Cubans in a row boat. I dispise Fat Mike and everything that he stands for. NoFx is nothing but a group of talentless scum. Fuck Fat Mike. God Bless America. PaT

Someone (August 16, 2002)

all their GOD DAMN UNCONTROLLED pollution that is blowing into canada. Its fucking sick, and unregulated when it should be. Reduce your fucking emissions you dirty lazy slobs. Think about this......SMOG from the US is blowing through quebec, new brunswick and NEWFOUNDLAND!!!! Guys, come one, newfoundland, look at a map and then you'll realize just how FUCKED up that is

Daegan (August 16, 2002)

"except when we are in economic turmoil the minute OPEC makes barrels of oil more expensive and we have none of our oil to fall back on." Among other things, Nader's environmental policy involved weaning ourselves from oil...which we should've done years ago...which the government still won't let us do now. Are you aware that the majority of the Department of Energy's research budget now goes toward COAL??!??? Coal, which we have been using longer than anything, which pollutes more than anything, etc, etc... The country could survive an economic crisis, but if we don't do something soon, there will be no planet left to have a country on. Not to mention the fact that with his foreign policy, if we still needed to defend ourselves, the most we would need would probably be a bunch of psychiatrists armed with large PA systems. Of course, the fact that you don't know shit about Nader or the Green platform doesn't surprise me - most people who go knocking either of them don't.

Someone (August 16, 2002)

"Among other things, Nader's environmental policy involved weaning ourselves from oil...which we should've done years ago...which the government still won't let us do now." Hah. This would take many consecutive presidential terms by the Green Party. Which will never happen. By many, I mean like, at least 4 terms. "The country could survive an economic crisis, but if we don't do something soon, there will be no planet left to have a country on." You're falling down a slippery slope on this one. While the environment of the U.S. is in mediocre condition, we (the human species) are in no imminent danger of destroying the planet. "Not to mention the fact that with his foreign policy, if we still needed to defend ourselves, the most we would need would probably be a bunch of psychiatrists armed with large PA systems." And this will work on Saddam? 'Cause, you know... it's not like we haven't been trying this for 16+ years (in which both major parties held the executive and legislative branches at least once). Horrible arguments. Leave Detroit. Michigan doesn't need more dumb asses like you.

Someone (August 18, 2002)

hey dickless YOU leave michigan. You fucking think you're some kind of realist or some shit but it's that kind of stagnant mindset that prevents anything from actually being done. Saddam is just another lame excuse to steal oil and impose our "moral betterness" as good ole G dubbya would probably say. Note how Iraq basically has been ignored (aside from the weapons inspection troubles) for the past few years. Still he was only seen as an annoyance but since 9/11 he's suddenly some scheming super-villian with his eyes set on domination of all those who oppose him. It's fucking indoctrination man.

Someone (August 18, 2002)

"Where are all this stupid people from? And how do they get to be so dumb?" Great selfish mentality man! Cheers! Open your eyes, you'll see that in some years your baby will be 1000 times more likely to be shot by a gun owner than killed by Saddam Hussein's inexistent army... You're a great product of 09/11. A product that US Bush government is selling everywhere just to get the profit (which is called re-election). I think you don't realise how much is USA polluting... You say it would take 4 presidential terms to get a cleaner energy. First I don't think it would take so long thanks to your "supremacy" in research and technology. And then, so what if it would take 4 terms? Within 30 years USA is going to be out of oil so why not beginning to use cleaner energy now?? You're going to be forced to use something else than oil anyway. But maybe your father is in the oil lobby, the one who supports Republicants' campaigns. Speaking of Saddam Hussein and oil, did you know why USA went to Koweit and Iraq? Of course not... The only thing your successive governments was interested in was to control the oil market there. That's why they never killed Saddam, because the situation being like this, they could always say that Saddam was a threat... D'you really think your government cares about little defenseless countries and their people? Then why doesn't it give more to them? You're claiming everywhere that you're the richest country in the world (although you have the greatest exterior debt). The people of Iraq is starving for a decade now. Your government is self interested, face the fact! it lets plenty of genocide happen but when it comes to 4,000 AMERICANS dying, that's not the same... Leave the world. The world doesn't need more people like you (I don't like insults, that's how IO was educated! :) ) And by the way, I'm not a big NOFX or Fat Mike fan... I just respect their behaviour as they try to make people like you realize how fucked is your society, although I think he has already lost the game; you've just proved it! Ignorance seems to be stronger than intelligence and thinking in the country where Bush gets an approval nearing 80% now! HE has won the game, HE is probably going to be reelected. And I realize that it can scare people like me or NOFX or people are anti-Bush

seek (August 16, 2002)

actually i hear he is a libertarian. nader would actually want us to step away from oil gradually, which is really one of the few good things he'd do. god bless your ignorance. hahaha.. you're afraid of an attack from Iraq. bahahahah. hussein's leadership is in shambles man.

Someone (August 16, 2002)

no he is not. Libertians belive individuals hold the right to make personal decisions. Nadar belives that people aren't smart enough to think for themselves and it's the gov's job to make sure everything is safe because people can't be responsible enough to take care of themselves.

Someone (August 16, 2002)

yeah.... I'm sure George Bush actually gives a damn about what you think. It all makes prefect sense now.

seek (August 16, 2002)

I'm talking about Fat Mike, not Nader. I know full well what a Libertarian is, and Nader is a Green.

punky (August 16, 2002)

Pat, do you ever ask yourself why would Iraq or Cuba attack you in the first place?God bless your fucking forgien policy and world domination.

Magnoon-OWI (August 16, 2002)

hussein wouldn't attack the US, he's just keep killing weaker thans like the Kurds and Shi'ites.

Someone (August 16, 2002)

the world hates our america. so perhaps bushes foriegn trade policy isnt all you say it is. when americans stop putting canadain flags on their back packs when they travel around the world (i know MANY people who have done it), then we will nknow that our president is doing a good job... but as of now i cant say that he is.

ETx310 (August 16, 2002)

I didn't know PaT Buchanon logged on to punknews.org

Someone (August 16, 2002)

hahahaha, good one. PaT sucks wang

Someone (August 16, 2002)

So how about Nader encourages us to rely less on the more expensive barrels of oil and more on renewable energy, eh? Higher standards for fuel consumption on new cars? Encouraging gas-electric hybrid cars? Research in solar energy. All that stuff that Bush isnt doing because of how invested he is in the oil industry. Nadar would not blindly implement environmental policies that would make the economy suffer. And why would Iraq and Cuba randomly attack us? Just for the hell of it? If we change the way we think about the rest of the world chances are it WONT be out to get us. I feel much more unsafe with Bush as president than i would if Nadar were president - even if he took a few pennys out of the military budget. Dont believe everything that CNN feeds you. The United States would not crumble if we used less oil. And..uh.. maybe be alittle more accepting of music.

Someone (August 17, 2002)

Our political system has been split into 2 major political parties for almost over 100 years now. Everyone is "born" into thier political party or choose the other just because they disagree with the first. That is NOT a democracy. That IS incompetence. A Democracy is not a revolutionary idea, it has been around for centuries, but somewhere in between the beginning of our country and now...we have forgotten what the IDEA of Democracy is all about. It's not about being 100% conservative or 100% liberal. It's about EVERYONE voicing their opinion, having their say, and the majority of the masses summing up the conscience of the whole nation. NOT the majority of those who participate. So if you are eligible to vote, register to vote, and most importantly inform yourself on who you would be voting for. All we have to do is get involved for us to see a change. I agree with Fat Mike about his view on Bush, but I wouldn't want Gore in there either. Clinton was just entertainment for 8 years, nothing more, nothing less. I don't have enough time to dissect each president, but I will say that we have not seen a TRUE president of the people in our lifetime and we won't see one till everyone gets involved. Otherwise we are just gonna keep having a bunch of different PUPPETS in the White House.

Someone (August 17, 2002)

Hey man, I've been to Cuba, don't fucking bash them. They ain't got nuthin against America (for the most part) Every other country in the world has dropped sanctions against Cuba except for the US. Do you know what that means? It means little kids die from stupid shit like the flu because it's too damn expensive to import american made medicines from other countries. War on Iraq? Where the fuck did that come from? Bush pulled it out of his ass because Daddy couldn't finish the job. The best thing about America is that people have a voice. The worst thing about America is the stupidity of some Americans. By the way check this out:http://www.twf.org/News/Y2002/0427-Mystery.html

Someone (August 17, 2002)

Fat Mike supported Al Gore, so NYAH!

Someone (August 17, 2002)

I wouldn't say NOFX is talentless but I do disagree with Fat Mike for one reason. He sounds like every other whiny liberal out there who doesn't have a solution and just bad mouths GWB. What we Fat Mike do if he ran the country? I mean lets be honest. With all that has happend in the last year, you really think Al Gore could have done better??????? If Fat Mike could form an opinion on what he'd actually do, I'd listen. But writing a song called "Ignorant Son of an Asshole" is pretty childish if you ask me. I don't really like any politicians but folks on the liberal side need to wake up. You had 8 long years with Clinton to fix things and all he cared about was getting hummers in the White House.

waste_elite (August 17, 2002)

cuz clinton was sooo liberal. give me a break, he was a republican is disguise. look into some of his policies. i consider myself liberal and i didn't care for clinton. NOFX is doing more than the majority of musicians are doing. at least Fat Mike is taking the time to do something productive to back up his beliefs as opposed to doing nothing but complaining. and it's funny how you classify liberals as those who like to trash GWB but don't have a solution. consevatives do the exact same thing.

xowenx (August 17, 2002)

FUCK YOU! When will you fucking learn that the foreign policy you are dealing with will always have vulnerabilities? The best foreign policy is not to try to build an impenetrable castle, because when it comes down to it, some fucks can always jump in an airplace and crash it into your sky scrapers. How about adopting some foreign policy wherein not every nation in the world hates your fucking guts? The era of war is over for north america and much of europe.... probably a bunch of other countries too. It is time to start building peaceful relations with other nations. o ps. FUCK YOU again

Someone (August 17, 2002)

This kid knows what he's talking about. Right on, brotha. Peace. Nizzle

Aubin (August 16, 2002)

I think it's more than just ad hominem attacks and polical criticisms against Bush; even though those are fun. The site is about the importance of voting; regardless of who you vote for.

Someone (August 16, 2002)

Well, Aubin, MTV does a better job of providing (somewhat) neutral encouragement to vote. MTV!!!

Someone (August 16, 2002)

its a site to encourage 'punk' kids to vote. So now who do you think will better encourage the punk community to register to vote.. MTV or Fat Mike..hmm..

Someone (August 16, 2002)

Fat Mike is taking it over board. Shut the hell up Mike. All he does is give rediculous reasons on why Bush is bad an no reasons on how to improve anything. Stop trying so hard moron, just because he's a Republican doesn't mean you will lose 'cred' with the liberal punk rockers if don't speak out against 'the man'.

seek (August 16, 2002)

he actually gave 15 good reasons, well 13 good reasons. obviously the site is a work in progress and was prematurely leaked. his reason on how to improve things is obvious, read the url you blind fuck. punkVOTEr.com. see it VOTE. hmm? yes? that is his solution, prick. he isn't a politician, it isn't his job to fix things, it is his job to vote for someone who will. that goes for all of us and that is the obvious message of the site.

Someone (August 16, 2002)

OK, Vote is his solution. I'll vote for George Bush than. See, how is that a solution. It's not. By him saying 'vote', is not going to change anything. It's still a 2 party system and no real 3rd party has a chance (not that the insane Nadar should be given any chance, though I agree with him on some points, all in all the guy would destroy the country given the chance) so by saying 'vote', does nothing. Your vote would really only matter if you voted Dec. or Rep. and that's not really a choice. So Mike doesn't know what he's talking about. Voting is not a solution.

Someone (August 16, 2002)

someone thinks they're a revolutionary...

Someone (August 16, 2002)

Actually voting does change things, on a local and national level. Get a clue, things won't change without people voting for a 3rd party. Even if they don't win, it sends a message and starts momentum. I'm untterly sick of fucking idiots who complain about people who actually give a shit about changing things. I don't understand why someone would complain about others trying to make a positive difference!

Someone (August 16, 2002)

i think it is pretty bitchin. seriously. mike isn't doing this to get 'cred' in a punk rock community. i don't know if you've noticed this or not, but he doesn't really give a fuck. and his reasons for hating bush are great ones. has anyone heard their song 'idiot son of an asshole'? it's right on. peace.

FatTony (August 16, 2002)

That song was GENIUS! I saw them play it at Warped. I hope they record it.

Someone (August 16, 2002)

I wish I knew where I could get an mp3 or some lyrics to it or something, it's the funniest shit I ever fucking heard. And so true. Fuck emo.

Someone (August 16, 2002)

Fuck Mike man, what an asshole. He's only been playing punk since New Found Glory got off the tit and he is still wasting time trying to put some ideas other than thoughts of girls who won't fuck him in his so called 'punk rock' lyrics. Fuck it. Let's just listen to some Dashboard and rock out about our ex-girlfriends. Where's my damn sweater?

seek (August 16, 2002)

haha

Someone (August 16, 2002)

right on man...

seek (August 16, 2002)

I'm glad he's doing this. You can all frown on it anyway you want, but at least he's doing something to help spur a bit of support for a vote amongst the kinds of people who always bitch "about the system" but RARELY vote. I bet most of the people who don't like what Fat Mike usually rants about and say "what do you do to help, you just complain", will now bitch while he does something actually quite substantial. The message here is clear, vote for whoever, just vote. Sure he takes shots at Republicans, but they deserve them (as much as the democrats though). Personally I'd wish everyone would vote Libertarian, but I'd just be happy if everyone in my age group voted at all. Also, I really don't think there is any more than a 5% chance of anyone but Bush winning 2004, unless something very horrible happens to him PR-wise. Kinda sad, isn't it?

Someone (August 16, 2002)

I'm just stoked thinkin how fuckin' good the next NOFX record is going to sound.

Someone (August 16, 2002)

NO. This is Fat Mike doing exactly what major U.S. media (AOL/Time Warner, Viacomm) does when they get paid by political parties. They manipulate and indoctrinate. What Fat Mike is doing is getting all the 15 and 16 year old kids who listen to Drive-Thru and FAT Records to vote as liberal and to the left as they can when the next election rolls around. I'm not pushing for a political system that is totally run by the right. I'm certainly more liberal than anything. What I'm saying is that it's really lame to say what Fat Mike is doing here is genuinely helping. The problem isn't that people vote Republican, the problem is that they aren't educated on all facets of politics. They don't know the facts and viewpoints from every single party. We need education, not indoctrination. And unfortunately, what Fat Mike is doing is the latter.

Someone (August 16, 2002)

Fat mike is giving a good source and opposite opinion of what is wrong with our current system and administration. That's more than you'll get anywhere else. Opening people's minds to an alternative.

waste_elite (August 17, 2002)

first of all, don't ever place drive-thru and fat wreck on the same plane. ever. second. how is Fat Mike indoctrinating? he is educating kids about the problems in our country and our president. do you really expect anyone with any sort of opinion at all to lay down all facets of an argument? fucking no, he's going to give you arguments as to why he is right. the other side will give you the opposing view. and you want indoctrination? go look at the media and it's affect on the stupid, knee-jerk patriots we know as Americans. dissent is practically treason these days. according to your post, anyone that has an opinion and tries to spread it is manipulative and trying to "indoctrinate" the unaware. how amusingly naive.

punky (August 16, 2002)

I'm with seek on this one. I think that that site is much better than any of those 'are you emo enough'.It did put a smile on my face to see something getting done, even if it means getting the msg accross by Fat Mike and MM. I don't live in the US, but I lived in 5 different country's because of the war, and everywhere I lived people hate US for their forgein policy.You gotta get out of your shell and see the things from other peoples eyes.I have nothing against you, the people who live in US, but your goverment is fucked and they want to control everyone and everything.Too bad they keep you brainwashed and you can't see the real reasons why most of the people hate US.Not because 'they hate freedom', but because US is killing the freedom of the rest of the World. Why do you think Bush wants to attack Iraq?My ass weapons of mass destruction, he's looking for some 'good' reasons to cover up his real goal...to get his hands on the oil.IF USA gets the control of the oil it would only be more expansive not cheaper - knowing the US capitalism.

Magnoon-OWI (August 16, 2002)

I have lived in many different countries as well. I have found that most people who hate America because of "imperialism" are also the first ones trying to get a visa to come to the US. I disagree with your point on Iraq. Hussein is a very evil man who needs to be taken out, oil or no oil. Read Richard Butler's book "The Greatest Threat" to see what I mean.

punky (August 16, 2002)

Bush is much dumber than Hussein, and Bush is as evil as Hussein is.I would like to see Bush taken out.

tgarn (August 17, 2002)

Its not just the US that wants to attack Iraq, its the UN also, do you know what the UN is?

seek (August 17, 2002)

No they don't.

punky (August 17, 2002)

Don't you even get me started with the UN.When the war started in Bosnia, UN came I was like 'YEah we are saved'.All they did was protect the US embassy (whatta surprise?) and started prostitution.No one had any money or food, and those 'brave' UN soldiers were paying $20 to fuck young girls. I'm not making this shit up.

tgarn (August 17, 2002)

How is Bosnia in the fall, because I'm assuming you were there because you seem to know all the facts

punky (August 17, 2002)

I left Bosnia in 1995

tgarn (August 18, 2002)

And just ouy of curiosity, whick do you like better, the US or bosnia?

punky (August 18, 2002)

I'm not in the US, I'm in Australia.I've mentioned that a couple of times. But I guess Australia and US are not much different.I don't like the way of living here for example.But I would always take Australia over Bosnia. Peace is much more important than the place...

Someone (August 16, 2002)

Fuck America. Fuck World Trade.

Dubar (August 16, 2002)

ism skism

Magnoon-OWI (August 16, 2002)

why? are you an American?

Someone (August 17, 2002)

Choking Victim/Leftover Crack kickass.

tgarn (August 17, 2002)

and #### dumb punks

Someone (August 16, 2002)

seek and punky, amen. by the way punky, i'm in your position, i live with my parents (i know it's not punkrock) and we're basically nomads, going from one country to another. and all i see are people hating american government. to pat, seriously, go out and spend sometime in other countries and see america from their perspective. stop listening to sum41 and die.

Someone (August 16, 2002)

Interesting to see Micheal Moore involved with this. That alone insures that this site will have some intelligent content when it's completed. If you don't know who Micheal Moore is, go read "Downsize This."

seek (August 16, 2002)

Michael Moore turned into a left wing fascist. His movies are still good though. His latest book, while funny, completely lacks any concrete political worth.

Someone (August 16, 2002)

What's the name of his new book?

FatTony (August 16, 2002)

I think it's called STUPID WHITE MEN, or something to that effect.

Someone (August 16, 2002)

i'm french, here many people hate Bush (this guy is a serial killer !! don't you see this ?) Mike is great, hey guys, he don't care about your "NOFX is not punk" or "fat mike wants to be punk", "he wants to prove it",... He hate bush (like many and many people over the world) and say it, it's all !

Someone (August 16, 2002)

Voting Is Emo

Magnoon-OWI (August 16, 2002)

lol. that is almost as funny as Joe Mamma's comments.

Drizzt7_drek (August 16, 2002)

I'm so tired of people saying that if you don't vote, you shouldn't get to complain. Sometimes not voting is making a point. It's not like we have a choice for "none of the above." If all of the candidates are corrupt, then why vote? I voted for Nader last election, and people told me I was throwing away my vote? That's the kind of attitude that will stop any serious changes. Vote for who you believe in, or don't vote at all. Don't fucking settle for the lesser of two (three or four) evils. Not voting IS making a stance, at least until there's an option for "none of the above."

lactose_incarnate (August 16, 2002)

That makes sense and all, but I don't think that's the case with most people... How many candidates were there in the last presidential election? Half a dozen or so? And there seem to be even more parties in smaller elections. You'd think out of all the parties in America you could find one that you could support. Even though your candidate may not win, I think they would be overjoyed at winning even one small state. I think most people don't like Democrats, don't like Republicans, and so they don't bother checking out the third parties because they think their vote wouldn't matter.

Drizzt7_drek (August 16, 2002)

yeah, but why settle? If you can't find one that you don't support, don't vote. I did find one the last election, but not everyone will.

punky (August 17, 2002)

Here in Australia, you have to vote or pay a sum of $90 or something.So I never miss a election. Maybe it would be better if it was like this in the USA too.George W would't even get close to being elected.

waste_elite (August 17, 2002)

the majority of those who voted obviously didn't want him in the White House as he lost the popluar vote.

Someone (August 16, 2002)

You're right. Not voting is making a stance. Unfortunately for you, the majority sees it differently than you do. To them, the choice not to vote is one that means you're lazy and apathetic, not a revolutionary as you claim to be. Don't be so stupid.

Drizzt7_drek (August 16, 2002)

I'm hardly being stupid. I think a lot of people don't vote because they are lazy; I agree with that. Don't assume that everyone is that way though. Also, don't get down on people because they didn't vote. Voting does NOT give you a right to complain, being a citizen of a democratic country gives you that right. Hardly stupid and hardly fucking revolutionary.

Someone (August 16, 2002)

I didn't say that you don't vote because you're lazy. _I_ understand people that dislike the choices and therefore decide against voting (I disagree with the opinion, but I can live with it) I said that the majority (i.e. the proverbial "They") sees it as being lazy and therefore do not care what you say, so your one shining moment of rebellion is shot to nothing.

Drizzt7_drek (August 16, 2002)

I understood what you said. 1) I didn't have ANY shining moment of rebellion. I'm glad that you think you're wonderful and that you can point out what you think others might be about, but you're wrong. 2) I don't care what others say; I'm pointing out that there ARE people who don't vote as a choice, and it should be an accepted practice.

Someone (August 16, 2002)

"it should be an accepted practice." Yes, but that will never happen because there is no one to poll you with "did you abstain from voting because you were lazy or because you were taking a stance against the candidates and/or our government?" That would kind of defeat the purpose of not voting, wouldn't it? So you'll have to silently deal with the fact that your stance (i.e. the candidates suck) is going unnoticed. Too bad.

Drizzt7_drek (August 16, 2002)

I don't have to silently deal with anything. I live in America and I can make my veiwpoint be known. At least for now.

Someone (August 17, 2002)

You're right. Those 250 million other Americans all now agree with you because you posted your views on an internet message board. You changed the world and made them realize that not voting is taking a stance. Would you like to declare world peace next? How can you make your viewpoint known to the country at large when there is no system in place for you to tell everyone your reasons for not voting? Yeah, you live in America and the way Americans make their voices heard is by voting. What other way is there? Subliminal messages?

Drizzt7_drek (August 17, 2002)

You're a dumbass. There's a huge difference between letting my viewpoint be known and changing other people's viewpoints. I wanted to post my viewpoint on this particular website and I did just that. I accomplished what I wanted to accomplish. The people who read this series of messages are now aware of how I feel and they in turn have heard another take on the whole system of not voting. I don't care if that changes opinions or not; I wasn't trying to save the world. Stop being a dumbass.

Someone (August 16, 2002)

For all of you bitching about this: Shutup! At least Mike is doing something, ask yourself what you've done to help make the country a better place? Chances are you're not even a registered voter because you think it wouldn't be "the punk thing to do."

Someone (August 16, 2002)

The point is: he isn't doing anything.

waste_elite (August 17, 2002)

setting up a website educating people and encouraging them to vote is certainly something. what the fuck have you done?

Someone (August 16, 2002)

The point is: emo will go the way of third wave ska.

xChrisx (August 16, 2002)

as the saying goes , if you had your choice between the piss soda and sh'it pie, aren't you entitled to your choice of picking neither??? just because you don't vote, doesn't mean your input doesn't matter, it could possibly mean that all the options are bad ones. you can't just exclude a group of people's point of view with "you didn't vote. ha"

Someone (August 16, 2002)

I read the liner notes to Dillinger Four's "This Shit Is Genius" too. As for those two choices you listed, there aren't only two choices in an election. Vote Browne. Vote Nader. Vote (ugh) Buchanan. Vote (ugh) Biafra. Don't be stupid.

xChrisx (August 16, 2002)

isn't d4 sweet?? but really, i do indeed know there isn't just 2 choices, but however many, everyone is still offered the choice of not wanting ANY of the candidates. plus, our country's voting system has been worked out so it's a two party system. therefor, voting for a third party candidate won't help by much at all. i'm not saying don't bother, cause pushing for what you believe in is always worth it. like i said, you shouldn't automaticly be disqualified of an opinion because you were disgusted by what you were offered

seek (August 17, 2002)

if you don't vote for a third party, then there is never a chance of getting out of the two-party system.

Someone (August 16, 2002)

FUCK GW. I think this site is some of the best news I've seen on this site lately. Fat Mike and Michael Moore teaming up for the greater political good. I just finished reading Moore's book "Stupid White Men" (I recommend it to all) and it really exposes how fucked up and corrupt the Bush government is. It's Laughable and I can't believe that there can be people as stupid as to think that George W. is actually doing a good job. All he's doing is riling up the country into blind patriotism, making them believe that he's a heroic "war-time" president. Sorry, he's not. There's no war, he's an alcoholic, illiterate, 3 times arrested, rich little bastard who sucks the corporate cock and didn't win the election. I think it's great that there's a now collective voice for people with real punk political beliefs, and is actively trying to rid the White House of the squatter who lives there now, and his rich corporate cronies. Again, FUCK GW.

Someone (August 16, 2002)

"There's no war, he's an alcoholic, illiterate, 3 times arrested, rich little bastard who sucks the corporate cock and didn't win the election." He's not an alcoholic. He's no illiterate. He may be rich but name one (relevant) presidential candidate who wasn't. He did win the election. (He didn't win the popular vote which is ENTIRELY different from winning the election. Grow up, retard. If it's such a big deal to you, why don't you spend this time asking your Congressman to introduce a bill that will change the electoral process? Oh, right. It's easier to bitch.) Wow. Yours was about the dumbest post yet in this topic. Nice job.

CaffeineConspiracy (August 16, 2002)

Bush admitted to having a drinking problem when he was younger.....I have no idea about his literacy (although if you listen to his speeches he does tend to have a problem grasping the english language from time to time).....he didn't win the election....he stole the election....it is plain and simple.....he was certified the winner by strong arm tactics and the use of an army of lawyers paid for by the very people he is trying to crack down on now (Enron and the rest)...you are absolutely correct about one thing though, Less Bitching and more action needs to be taken.....I am going to send my congressman a letter today.....maybe some of the people who bitch about everything should run for public office.....

Someone (August 16, 2002)

The guy said the Bush xxx!!!_IS_!!!!xxx an alcoholic. Bush IS NOT an alcoholic, he xxx!!!_WAS_!!!xxx and alcoholic. There's a xxx!!!_HUGE_!!!xxx difference.

waste_elite (August 17, 2002)

"He's not an alcoholic" he WAS an alcoholic "He's no illiterate." have you listened to the man speak? it makes one wonder... "He may be rich but name one (relevant) presidential candidate who wasn't." it's not the fact that he is rich (well partly, his cabinet is the wealthiest in American history), it's the fact that he is deadset on protecting corporate powers which may or may not be in his own financial interest. "He did win the election. not really. it was more like he was appointed president by the court system. the fact stands that the majority of american voters did not want him to be president. i love how people bitch about how other people bitch.

Someone (August 17, 2002)

"he WAS an alcoholic" And? I said he IS not an alcoholic. There's a difference. "have you listened to the man speak? it makes one wonder..." Retarded speculation doesn't make another person illiterate. "it's not the fact that he is rich (well partly, his cabinet is the wealthiest in American history), it's the fact that he is deadset on protecting corporate powers which may or may not be in his own financial interest." What's your point? The guy complained that Bush was rich, not that he was protecting corporate interests. Try relevancy in your next argument. It's fun! "not really. it was more like he was appointed president by the court system. the fact stands that the majority of american voters did not want him to be president." Did you read what I wrote? He DID WIN THE ELECTION. GEORGE W. BUSH WON MORE ELECTORAL VOTES THAN ANY OTHER CANDIDATE. THEREFORE, IN ACCORDANCE WITH VOTING STANDARDS IN THE UNITED STATES, GEORGE W. BUSH WON THE ELECTION. It's not rocket science.

tgarn (August 17, 2002)

Not all books are true

Someone (August 16, 2002)

This is embarrasing... I hate George Bush too, but it feels so cartoonish to hate him when there are sites like this...

Someone (August 16, 2002)

Exactly why does everyone hate him? All I see is I hate Bush. TOUGH SHIT KIDS. Grow up. Your sitting on your computers right now, in the real world Bush is the leader of the free world, elected by your peers. Granted, I didn't and won't vote for Bush but the man is not as bad as you make him out. It's so 'In' to be anti-government it's sickening. I doubt your lives have been worsened by the fact GW is in office. Nobody's lives have. ALL PRESIDENTS, NOT JUST REPUBLICAN OR BUSH are Oil hungry. Clinton was. I voted for him. Sterotypes are horrible, get over them. And on the Anti-American sentiment in Europe...I love Europeans /sarcasm/ (cept for the English, they usually have their heads on straight). My, my how quickly forgot you might be speaking German right now had it not been for the actions of the American government and it's troops. Remember the whole 'ww2' thing? anybody? I see...

Someone (August 16, 2002)

First of all, if you watched more than CNN you'd see why the US is hated and why people hate Bush. Go do some research. The WW2 comment is so irrelevant to this discussion it's "sickening" Fat mike and most the people here don't hate the the US at all points in history. In fact prior to neo-liberalist politics the US was much more functional in many ways. Actually we don't hate the US at all, we just see the problems assholes like you seem to be totally ignorant to. No, maybe my life hasen't changed so drastically but I'm not just fighting for myself. I'm doing it for the future of our world, our people, and our enviroment. Get you head out a hole, you don't even know he wasn't "elected by my peers" and you still talk shit. Fuck you for not giving a shit and complaining about people who do. You make me wanna fuckin puke.

punky (August 16, 2002)

'but the man is not as bad as you make him out'... wtf are you talking about, step out of your border line and see what Bush is doing to the rest of the world that you and most of the other people living in USA don't have clue about. You can just see on his face how much of a dumb fuck he really is.

seek (August 17, 2002)

First of all he isn't the leader of the "free world". There really is no such things, privledged countries give their citizens privledges. There is no country that is really free in any sense. Furthermore, he doesn't lead anything more than the United States. He doesn't lead Britain. He doesn't lead France. He may have political influence over them, but that is it. Now, he isn't elected by my peers. My peers haven't been voting, in case you didn't catch that. However, he wasn't elected by our population either. Not that I think the electoral college is a bad institution, but they are who elected him, not the populous. My life has been worsened. When my family dies of cancer because there is no cure, due to the fact REAL cures can't be researched without stem cells, it does effect me. If war ensues in Iraq, not only may I get drafted, but if a nuclear winter comes, I'll surely be effected. He effects me in the way of the economy. He effects me in more ways than I can really write at the moment. He is the end all be all for the laws that get passed, how can he NOT effect me? Oh, we wouldn't be speaking German right now. Germany never invaded the U.S. And you act as if we should be patting our own backs for a war we fought 50-60 years ago. Jesus, you are a retard. He we did something right, let's just focus on that. My friend might be speaking Native American right now if his ancestors weren't robbed and raped. What is your point? You make conservatives look stupid and I hate you for it.

Someone (August 17, 2002)

Woah woah shit i'm not a conserative, far from it. I'm actually a registered Demo. so take that. If your not from Europe, the WW2 comment is irrelavent, so don't comment on it dipshit. Anyway, I'm drunk so I don't know what I'm saying. People just need to realize Bush isn't as bad as you make him out to be, this coming from a staunch Democrat, give him some fucking slack assholes.

punky (August 17, 2002)

I'm from Europe, but I live in Australia now, and I hate Bush because its just like putting a chimp in charge of a country-a country with a goverment that has a huge impact and influence on the rest of the World.Its a puppet show, but a very bleak one. You know what your great Georgy aksed Brazilian president on his last visit..."Do you have black people here too?" Bush - 67 years behind evolution.

seek (August 17, 2002)

If you don't know what you are saying, then you shouldn't speak. Besides, you are a fucking Democrat. And about the WW2 comment, that whole Europe owing us anything bit is played out. They don't owe us any more than we owe them.

waste_elite (August 17, 2002)

i love how people post something they're embarassed of and then chalk it up to being drunk, tired, and/or stoned.

Someone (August 16, 2002)

all you people bitching, did you actually read that little statement on the webpage? probably not. really, all Mike wants the young voters to do is go out and vote. of course he puts his own political thoughts in there too. But he's not saying you have to hate Bush to be punk, he's just trying to get kids to vote so this country can maybe get back on track. now, if you want this country to continue to go down the shitter, and have every other country hate us, then bitch about Mike actually doing something constructive, but if you want to make a difference, (and buying an Anti-Flag cd doesn't count), then vote.

tgarn (August 17, 2002)

Sometimes doing the right thing makes you unpopular. Remember popularity is not everything(I thought everyone would know this cause we are on a punk site. And its just an opinion, but I dont see how you say we're "going down the #### hole" when we are the power in the world.

waste_elite (August 17, 2002)

> as if being the most powerful nation in the world should be our only concern. please look at what we've fucking done to the world. look at the chaos we've wreaked. the sad thing is, the general public is completely unaware. there is a reason the majority of the world despises the USA. it isn't because they are just plain evil people as GW and our government would like us to believe.

tgarn (August 17, 2002)

They hate us cause we are fat and lazy, and still are the most powerful country. The world would be nothing if it werent for the US. And if they hate us so bad why do they try to copy America?(i.e. the constitution, fashion.)

Someone (August 16, 2002)

Voteing is not 4 punx!!! oi oi oi!

punky (August 17, 2002)

yeah, go new found glory !!!

Someone (August 17, 2002)

wow...MOST IMMATURE UNAWARE OF ANYTHING DUMBASS COMMENT AWARD goes to the OI OI OI guy...lameass goof. -mateo d'cay

Someone (August 17, 2002)

Awords n materity is not 4 punx!!!! oi oi oi!!!

Someone (August 18, 2002)

in that case neither are high-tech gadgets like the computer youre usin OI OI OI. so i guess this makes us all wanna bes -mateo d'cay

Someone (August 16, 2002)

Lack of an outside opinion and not voting are what makes things stay the same. Fat Mike has grown up a bit and is trying to do something, stop complaining you worthless assholes.

SlightHopeAlive (August 17, 2002)

Can anybody explain the electoral college in a non-text book dumbed down form because I guess I'm just stupid. But every time I've tried to understand it I get confused. Off the top of my head its something like the people vote for the popular vote. Then the electoral college votes. I guess the confusing part is, for example, if the democrat won the state would the electoral college vote for the democrat, or do they vote how ever they want. I should've payed attention in poli-sci. Too bad it was extremely BORING.

Someone (August 17, 2002)

Here we go. Let's discuss Wisconsin since that's my home state. Prior to the 2000 election, the Wisconsin Democratic and Republican conventions elected their electorates. There were 11 representatives from Wisconsin in 2000 (based on population) Al Gore won our state, which means the Democratic party used their electorates. Typically, this means all 11 vote for Gore. The only time this won't happen is when an electorate changes his or her mind, which is quite infrequent, but does happen when there are two similar candidates (I can't think of any, but perhaps if one of the original Democratic candidates had run on an independent platform, an electorate could sometimes change their vote to that candidate.) It's possible that I've got this all wrong and I welcome any corrections. Homer Simpson: "Maybe we should start all over with the electrical college."

Someone (August 17, 2002)

ya know its quite sad how no one seems to care anymore. in a world full of bullshit music and money-hungry producers and singers, PUNK is the alternative correct? well if so, whats with the same ol drawn-out emo shit that pops out in punk-disguise everyday? and nothing's wrong with that, but my god what ever happened to political punk? a cd you can actually LEARN something from? it's to be found rarely. BUT, when someone actually tries to make a difference, tries to get back the old ways, tries to show that "political crap" matters...these kids shoot it down. fuck off or actually GIVE a shit about your happy little country, cause let's face it, youve been desensitized. so sad... -mateo d'cay

CaffeineConspiracy (August 17, 2002)

Check out Strike Anywhere...

Someone (August 17, 2002)

Keep sucking on the circumsized cock known as Israel and their wars, their problems, their Western-destroying culture become yours, America. Doesn't that sound nice? Dying for Israel and their Zionist peers? I bet. That's the only REAL reason the Middle East crisis exists without relent. That's the primary reason why our foreign policy is hated. And voting for a Femocrats or the Republicunts doesn't negate the fact that things change. That's right: nothing will change without war. Ready for that? Oh yeah: Fuck Fat Mike.

SOYBOMB (August 17, 2002)

These threads of comments show ignorance at its finest. Peace, -SOYBOMB-

Someone (August 17, 2002)

All this socialist crap is just sickening. Does Fat Mike have a degree in Economics, Political Science, or Law? I do. But you don't need a degree to see that the USA is the most free nation on earth and the most successful. Fat Mike wants the freedom to destroy one's self with drugs and abortion but he doesn't recognize the right to trade my goods with someone else without severe restraints in the name of specious environmental views or redistribution, i.e. socialism. What about my right to own a gun (which Michael Moore is against), missle defense, etc. See, "choice" is only an option when it's a liberal proposition! Matter of fact, I sent two e-mails to Fat Mike outlining my opposition to his views (like how he certainly enjoyed the free market and used the freedom we enjoy to start a successful record label) and he writes back with this completely asanine and weak response about how we shouldn't be too hard on marijuana. He was almost apologetic! There was not one genuine argument in there and he knew it, it was the most amazing thing. Read "Death of the West" by Pat Buchanan -and- Michael Moore's comical book; if the truth is not apparent you might need deprogramming. We need a website for conservative punk views, e-mail me at shixashix@hotmail.com.

ETx310 (August 17, 2002)

conservative punk is an oxymoron. Seriously, where do people come up with this shit? I can just picture this rhetoric going over really well at the Masque or Cathay de Grande in the early 80's.

waste_elite (August 17, 2002)

your post was laughable. "Does Fat Mike have a degree in Economics, Political Science, or Law? I do" if someone does not have a degree in Economics, Political Science, and Law then their opinion is worhtless huh? first of all Mr Anonymous, you are full of shit. i know you don't have a degree in any of the above fields. if you did, your arguments would be a little more convincing than what was offered. second of all, even if you did have a degree, it doesn't make your opinion any more valid than anyone elses. i'm sure there would be plenty more people out there with a greater knowledge of Law, Politics, and Economics that could tear your "arguments" to pieces. and just the fact that you recommend a book by Pat Buchanan makes me wonder if you have any political depth whatsoever. -------------- how can you destroy one's self with abortion? as far as i'm concerned, abortion is the real "pro-life". and stem cell research has the potential to save countless lives. ----------------------- it doesn't matter if we are the "most free" nation on earth (not sure of the validity of that) and the most successful. you seem to be inflicted with the common American blindess to see only within our borders. there are reasons why we are hated throughout the world. ---------------------------- "Fat Mike wants the freedom to destroy one's self with drugs and abortion but he doesn't recognize the right to trade my goods with someone else without severe restraints in the name of specious environmental views or redistribution, i.e. socialism" first of all, FAt Mike is in favor of legalizing only marijuana as far as i know. a drug that is far less harmful that alcohol. second of all, you're right to trade should be restrained in regards to the environment. why should you have the right to damage something that belongs to everyone? you speak of socialism as if it's a dirty word. ----------------------- "What about my right to own a gun (which Michael Moore is against), missle defense, etc" the supposed "missle defense plan" our president is in favor of is a joke as it depends on nonexistent technology. amd gun control has been argued over countless times so i won't bother with it. --------------------------------- See, "choice" is only an option when it's a liberal proposition liberals are more concerned with the well being of all as opposed to the well being of the few. if that means cutting out minor things, so be it. fuck im tired of writing

tgarn (August 17, 2002)

"abortion is the real "pro-life"". Now that is a oxymoron.

Someone (August 17, 2002)

it may be an oxymoron but I can destroy a fetus if I want and you can wave an american flag if you want so everyone's happy

tgarn (August 18, 2002)

and then an innocent human would be dead, and you would got Hell. And my arms would be soar from waving the flag

waste_elite (August 18, 2002)

a fetus is not a human. i don't see how anyone who actually sits down and thinks about it can be againts abortion. www.abortionisprolife.com and patriotism is for idiots. what a great way to stoke the fires of the "us vs them" mentality and to blind the people into thinking the government always knows best. after all dissent is unpatriotic (or at least that's the way it's treated in our post 9/11 atmosphere). plus, what the fuck is this American pride nonsense? what are we proud of? haha we're richer than anyone else, aren't we great? haha we fucked up your country, and i take pride in it. bullshit. patriotism is dangerous

Someone (August 18, 2002)

a fetus is not a human and don't bring religion into a discussion about politics. Politics are fucked up enough already. You sound like Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell. Do you even realize how many people out there think that YOU'RE going to hell because you believe in YOUR god. It's such a pointless battle. My god is better than your god. My belief is more valid than yours. LAME!!!

waste_elite (August 18, 2002)

www.abortionisprolife.com educate yourself foo' no it's not an oxymoron. by forcing a woman to give birth to an unwanted fetus you are destroying her right to a free life. "If we are to accept the equation of the potential with the actual and call the embryo an "unborn child," we could, with equal logic, call any adult an "undead corpse" and bury him alive or vivisect him for the instruction of medical students."

Someone (August 18, 2002)

I'd force you to have you read all the books in the conservative pantheon and you'd still not be convinced. If you hate America you're going to continue to hate America, and not even the fall of the Soviet Union can convince you otherwise. Take a look at history and sit down. Socialism as an economic system is bankrupt! What, do you want me to start quoting Von Mises? It -does- help to be educated, my friend. As for the abortion issue, what the hell do you think is growing in there, a cat or a dog? We can actually remove the baby at a very early stage now and it can live outside the womb, but liberals do not want that, they want the woman to deny her God-given duty so she can climb the *corporate* ladder. Babies are one of the greatest obstacles to the self-centered person! See how hypocrital these punk rock communists are??

Someone (February 22, 2004)

your probably a redneck

Kepone (August 11, 2004)

I think what Fat Mike is doing is perfectly acceptable. After all, who else would bother stepping forward to put out both Rock Against Bush compilations? A lot of punk bands pay lip service to Democratic causes. How many of them actually step forward to do something? I know that some punk bands only do it to sell albums nowadays. If you're only in it for the money, you should fuck off and let the folks are truly dedicated, step into their roles. So, instead of constantly bitching about George W, if you are of voting age, go to the polls in November and cast your vote for ANYONE BUT BUSH. I am sick and tired of the bullshit heaped upon us from this administration. I never asked for a Bush presidency. Never asked to be taken back to the 1950s. Never asked for the Patriot Act. Never asked for the War in Iraq. I will TELL George W what I think of him. I will cast my vote AGAINST him. As for the so-called "conservative" punks out there at conservativepunk.com, here's a big FUCK YOU! The war on the mainstream was declared with the advent of the earliest bands to be known as "Punk". It was enchanced with the introduction of politics and punk rock. The traitors over at conservativepunk have no idea how full of shit they are.