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Anti-Flag - The Terror State (Cover Artwork)

Anti-Flag

Anti-Flag: The Terror StateThe Terror State (2003)
Fat Wreck Chords

Reviewer Rating: 4.5
User Rating:


Contributed by: HeinHein
(others by this writer | submit your own)

For the first time in my life I was enjoying ironing for 2 hours with this new Anti-Flag album at high volume accompanying me. Yes, you kids, that's what a father of 2 with a girlfriend that's working on a saturday does in his spare time. Fuck, it's guys like these feminist bastards that have caused.
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For the first time in my life I was enjoying ironing for 2 hours with this new Anti-Flag album at high volume accompanying me. Yes, you kids, that's what a father of 2 with a girlfriend that's working on a saturday does in his spare time. Fuck, it's guys like these feminist bastards that have caused the world to evolve into this situation! (joke, OK?) Maybe they also experienced this "positive" evolution, because the subject isn't present in any of the songs on this, their fourth album. Instead, all of the 13 songs focus on political issues, and I agree that that's a far more important issue in this US pre-election period, where every sane person on this globe should be aware that there's no room for another period of Bush despotism.

With the review of "Underground Network", their previous album, I wrote that I found the lyrics quite cliché. And let's be honest, they still are; all the slogans, one-liners, thoughts and ideas should have been heard by all of you, if you at least took the trouble reading through some of the peace-press or zines lately, if you looked into some Howard Zinn or Noam Chomsky or paid a visit to punkvoter.com. But as cliché as it gets, it just can't be repeated enough, so let's credit Anti-Flag for doing this. I'm quite assured that this "social justice image" that this band has been creating for themselves over the last decade isn't just a promotional stunt, proven by the fact that whenever there was a chance to manifest themselves for the good cause, they were present (playing Plea For Peace Tour, Pittsburgh Peace Converge Rally, attending countless demonstration and a hearing for Mumia Abu-Jamal to name a few).

The music on this album is astonishingly addictive people! You'll be able to sing along with Justin Sane's sometimes pitched vocals in no time, just as I was. Damn, I only listened to this album 6 times or so, and I already picked up most of these choruses. The backings are phenomenal, the guitars are hefty and there's not a trace of chaos in there. Instead there's room for mostly melodic punkrock, sometimes leaning towards Good Riddance alike hardcore. Yet, I can't undo myself of the impression that there's some kind of an Oi-ish unity feeling in this music, but I guess that has to do with the sloganesque lyrics.

"Turncoat" kicks off the album with the best sing-along chorus on the disc and a direct attack to the killing, lying and thieving George. It got me wondering if there are people working for (or related to) the US government who look into this kind of music. But yeah, it's a free country I guess. Engineering was done by Nick Didia (Bruce Springsteen, Pearl Jam, …). That other protest-guy, Tom Morello of Rage Against The Machine and Audioslave, produced the album, and it obviously influenced Anti-Flag's sound in the songs "Death Of A Nation", at least the second part, and "Post-War Breakout". This last song, which is an odd-one-out because of the more laid-back and rotating guitarsound, is built around 40 year-old lyrics from Woody Guthrie, who was a political activist, songwriter and social critic.

Actually, this album has no highlights, because it's a highlight in itself. All these songs are magnificent for different reasons, some of them reminding of Bouncing Souls ("Rank-N-File", "Tearing Down The Borders"), others of Good Riddance ("Sold As Freedom", "You Can Kill The Protester…"), there's quite accessible stuff ("Mind The G.A.T.T."), super guitarlicks and vocal melodies ("Operation Iraqi…", "When You Don't Control…"). But THE main strength of this album are without a doubt the aforementioned catchy choruses that will be glued to your brain in no time and invite to sing along.

Anti-Flag really impressed me with this album. They managed to break with the basic punksound from their earlier releases and implemented a much more hardcore sound, without losing the accessibity to their music. In short, "One People, One Struggle, One to reflect, One to sing along to, One Album to Buy".

 

 
People who liked this also liked:
Anti-Flag - For Blood and EmpireRise Against - Revolutions Per MinuteNOFX - The DeclineAgainst Me! - is Reinventing Axl RoseAnti-Flag - A New Kind Of ArmyNOFX - Wolves in Wolves' ClothingRise Against - Siren Song Of The Counter CultureRise Against - The Sufferer & the WitnessNOFX - The War on ErrorismAnti-Flag - Underground Network

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Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not respon sible for them in any way. Seriously.
fluffydaninja (April 9, 2013)

one of the best political punk records ever made. pretty good record insert with some short essays just great album overall.

kill_fftl (May 10, 2006)

3 words, fuck ing insane

rylo6 (March 30, 2006)

the cd is amazing. that is all you can say. amazing

randomhero323 (February 4, 2006)

this is the best anti flag cd to date. the first time i heard it i thought it sucked ass because i enjoyed old anti flag but the more i listed i liked it. they get better every cd. unless your one of those street punk losers

Anonymous (February 1, 2006)

ses po bon

edghg2000 (January 30, 2006)

kick ass cd thats all i can say

miff (December 24, 2005)

hmm on first listen this record went from cd to coaster in a matter of minutes
it was only later during a very bored summer holiday that i put my cup down on it (it had cold coffee and cold hot chocolate with a blob of ice cream on top which is rele nice actually) i then thought fuck this i ahve nothing better to do so i played it again
i remebered why i used it to put cups on
the album is too politically motivated i mean lytrics like "the people united wil never be defeated" just make u groan
but then songs like operation iraqi liberation(which consaequently spells oil) is a song which i found beareable on the second listen plus i also worked out what he was saying.turncoat sounds too much like 911 for peace which also sounds like watch your right
the politicalness of the songs is too much after the first song i got the point taht they weent rele that keen on the government
musically tho this album is great it just makes me groan
thank god i cant understand what hes saying(cos he sounds like a 12yr old girl on helium

Godfather (October 5, 2005)

These guys kick ass even though they whine about politics too much. At least I agree with their views...but yeah, this is my favorite AF album.

Anonymous (May 30, 2005)

Everyone who is shit talking don't know a shit about global or even domestic issues that should concern them. And this IS WHAT PUNK WAS FOR. Giving a voice to the voiceless. You ass clowns go listen to your muse-indie shit.

Anonymous (April 20, 2005)

anti-flag are killer
fuck you who ever said that they suck

Anonymous (February 19, 2005)

I have to say not a bad album.
After reading most of the posts in this forum I have to say that I am suprised that people can piss and moan so much over a band. I mean seriously people you are all judging and attacking others over their opinions. If you dont like the band.. thats cool i think this forum is a pathetic example of an album comment section.... Yes thats right album comment is the topic at hand, remember?? anyone?? For fucks sake AF are a band they make music, GET OVER IT

Anonymous (February 7, 2005)

you guys are all full of shit. this band is doing sumthing, unlike all u idiots that sit around not doing nothing. they preach, they bitch and they do sumthing. they were in DC protesting. what did u guys do? sat home played with ur selfs and then bitch a lil bit more about how punk u are and how A-F sucks. "kids over 15 dont listen to A-F" wut kids do u know ur sister and ur brother that dress all "punk rock" and listen to SP, GC, and all those wonderfull bands that have one thing to say and its i love u and u broke my heart.

"I thought I'd begun, to see a change
But the more things change, the more they stay the same
Back stabbing and name calling, the trademarks of your act
You talk and talk of unity, but divide with your attacks"

Anonymous (January 24, 2005)

o yea this goes out to funkisdead y the fuck dont u give up how much u hate anti flag so much. there a KICK ASS BAND!!!!

Anonymous (January 24, 2005)

this album is great and for the person known by fritobandito y do u even post smthin if u think thier an excuse for a band ur messed up!!!

fritobandito (January 7, 2005)

probably the worst album I've heard in my life, and easily the worst from this half-ass excuse for a band. the one redeeming grace was "Post-War Breakout" which I learned later, ironically enough...anti-flag didn't even write. the amazing Woody Guthrie did.

go figure.

horrorbusiness78 (October 8, 2004)

Anti-Flag has some pretty catchy songs for the stuff they write about. I think this cd is pretty good, but it gets kind of boring when every song is about the same thing. Again it is political punk and i dont worry much about politics but for what it is its good.

Anonymous (October 1, 2004)

i love anti flag

if kerry loses the election america will be in chaos, every other country in the world will despise us. i hope that bush loses and goes back 2 his cattle ranch and leaves us all alone.

m/

Anonymous (July 22, 2004)

anti-flag rocks!! and for the idiot who said they should quit bitching and do something about it.. they are you looser, just go back and listen to your sell out non punk simple plan cd. anti-flag is making thier voice heard and helping in the best way they know how, singing thier lungs out. and all the other people who talk shit about anti-flag, well suck it noobs. oh ya, FREE MUMIA ABU JAMAL!!

Anonymous (April 28, 2004)

I liked it for about 3 weeks. Sadly after a while I just got tired of all the fuck the government stand united and peaceful shit. Don't get me wrong Bush is a fucktard and our government needs some serious changes but 1 or 2 songs does the trick for those kind of issues. If only Anti-Flag would do some songs other than anti-government ones

Anonymous (January 22, 2004)

i would like to say this shit about bein on mtv.com and gettin sold at hot topic is kind of unsettling though

Anonymous (January 22, 2004)

i like anti-flag so there fuck you assholes who say they suck id like to see you do better and i met chris#2 from anti- flag that dudes cool as shit

Anonymous (January 7, 2004)

Great Record.

Anonymous (December 1, 2003)

Some people here are a bit to quick to put anti-flag down for their political views. if you listen to the new joe strummer (i.e. the guy from the clash you simple-minded fucks) his message is basically the same. everyone is a human and should be treated like it so what if the whole album is about politics, you seemed to realize the point they were trying to get across. So before you go suckin Dubya's dick why don't you think about what hes having America do, kill people in another country that we have no fuckin business being in. First we were there to stop Saddam until he got away, then we were there to get WMD until they realized there were none now were there to liberate the people, What a load of crap. If Bush were from anywhere else he would be on trial as a war criminal.

Anonymous (November 12, 2003)

good album

funkisdead (October 28, 2003)

*quandry.

funkisdead (October 28, 2003)

i thought a lamb was a baby sheep, or something to that effect? or maybe lamb is gender specific?
hmm...
this score is for the notfeelingcreative-inspired mental quandary i need to eat my way out of.

notfeelingcreative (October 28, 2003)

Ship? I hope your joking. On e sheep is called a lamb.

Anonymous (October 27, 2003)

its ship, not sheep you fucking idiot. plural is sheep dumbfuck.

BSD (October 27, 2003)

Yeah, that kid is a fucking sheep.

notfeelingcreative (October 27, 2003)

Warning: The person who posted below is part of huge cover up by your government to get people to stop asking questions and start assuming that our justice system works.

Anonymous (October 27, 2003)

Every fact about the Mumia case can be looked up just by checking the court records. If more Mumidiots did that, there would be alot fewer of them in this world. EVERY accusation his lawyers have made can be proven false just by checking the damn court records. Why is that so hard to do? I guess it's so much easier & cooler to just let Anti Flag tell you what the truth is. There is a reason he hasn't gotten a new trial in 20 years, & it's not some giant cover up. It's just the facts.

Check for yourself or be content with just being another Fucking Sheep.

Anonymous (October 27, 2003)

I haven't heard this album yet but I'm stoked on reading everyones thoughts. For an Anti-Flag review there isn't a lot of bitching either amoungst the responses which is a refreshing change. On the contrary people are actually discussing real issues that need to be addressed such as the manipulation of the public by mass media and history (the most effective educational tool).
I think this site could be a great platform to share ideas and to reinforce the ideals that punk rock stands for. Instead there is just a whole lot of whinging and bitching. Finish a day of uni/work and come home I come on to this site to hear what some other like minded people think and all you read is a few people having a whinge.I never have and never will draw any strength from that and I'm guessing none of you do either. If you don't like a band either write it and give a reason or don't write it at all

Anonymous (October 27, 2003)

Coming from someone who USED to hate Anti-Flag, this is definitely up for album of the year.
Best Tracks: Post War Breakout, Mind The G.A.T.T., You Can Kill The Protester But You Can't Kill The Protest.

Anonymous (October 26, 2003)

If you buy it and open up the cover youll see the meaning of it.

-nofxpunkltj

Anonymous (October 25, 2003)

this record is to conservative for me

Anonymous (October 25, 2003)

that is one of the most embarrasing album covers i've ever seen

Anonymous (October 25, 2003)

"All I can say is that you should give this one a chance...and pick it up at your local Hot Topic store...we don't edit to cover either."

bahahahaahahaha

Analog_Boy (October 25, 2003)

This alblum is fucking good. Very surprised.

...and fuck all you people coming on here and posting a line saying shit about this band. Post a little more explaining why you hate them. The music isn't that bad, they have a fair message, and they take action for what they believe in.

KarlHungus (October 25, 2003)

I think I will pick this one up. Instead of any political rants, I think I will use this opportunity to educate myself. (or masturbate! go figure!?!)

Karl

PS: Pittsburgh is awesomeness rolled into a perogie!

Anonymous (October 25, 2003)

this is a human rights violation

Anonymous (October 25, 2003)

underground network was way better. next time they should stay away from tom morello.

notfeelingcreative (October 25, 2003)

I think you give people too much credit to assume that there are no people who would post soemthing like that seriously, sorry I ddint pick up on the sarcasm. NOW GET OFF MY FUCKING BACK! ha ha.

Anonymous (October 25, 2003)

notfeelingcreative, my previous post:

*"just becasue someone stands up for what they believe doesnt make them any better... hitler anyone?"

yeah, Adolph Hitler, Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Pol Pot, ...theyre all the same...*

Cant you pick up the sarcasm? i didnt write the bit in speech marks. I thought it was stupid that you thought that someone could be so stupid as to say that seriously.Im quite aware that there is no vocal tone associated with typed stuff. You take people for utter dumbasses.Man this is stupid.

Anonymous (October 25, 2003)

I never really liked A-F in the past because I just didn't care for their sound, but I decided to give the new disc a chance (had a promo copy at Hot Topic) so we listened to it at work the other night and it was great stuff. "Turncoat" is really good and very catchy. All I can say is that you should give this one a chance...and pick it up at your local Hot Topic store...we don't edit to cover either.

notfeelingcreative (October 24, 2003)

I'm tired of it as well.

funkisdead (October 24, 2003)

i was correcting my previous post. you said we were judging other people. i wrote that we were talking shit. the post you didn't understand was supposed to tell you that "shit talking" should be substitued with judging.
i am tired of this thread, though.

Anonymous (October 24, 2003)

we need to be pro-american, since we ARE american, but at the same time we need to get bush out of power as soon as possible so we can be happier about our country and our relations with the rest of the world, corporate welfare, enron, WTO ohhh god just fast forward to 2004 so we can have howard dean already! long sentence!

FUCK BUSH-----> GO HERE IF YOU HATE BUSH WWW.WHITEHOUSE.ORG

notfeelingcreative (October 24, 2003)

Since I believe I was the one who called you an asshole, I'd like to comment on your last post, however, I can't understand the first sentence. Oh well, in the end we are all going to like what we like and believe what we want to beieve!

funkisdead (October 24, 2003)

pardon me, not shit talking, but "judging" people. the point is the same, i don't think i have done that. this score is for calling me an asshole.

funkisdead (October 24, 2003)

so to close my endless stream of time-killing postings, i would like to start out by saying that boba fett was definitely the coolest of the bounty hunters.
the problem with your argument though, is that we base our perceptions of what is "good" or "bad" and "right" or "wrong," on learned behaviours. the existence of god is an absolute... there is one or there isn't...
determining whether the war on iraq, for example, is good or bad is a decision based upon its long-term effects on the global community.

anyways, there are truths, yeah, and the media is generally biased, but for the most part, some truths are more than others.

i don't think i've talked shit about anybody, to the kid who said we're just talking shit...

i agree that the best thing bands like this do is get kids to think outside the box. its just a pity that more exposure means easier access to their music, and more and more kids just take what the band says verbatim, rather than expound upon the spirit of the music and the movement itself and pursue individuality.

i listened to the record again, and really, it is nowhere near as bad as i had initially thought. it is definitely solid. i like that you know what you're getting with this band... i think they've been around long enough and been prolific enough to where you either like the band or you don't, that is why there is so much knocking the record.

i've changed my score accordingly.

notfeelingcreative (October 24, 2003)

I dunno, I even think that their lyrics have matured a bit.

Anonymous (October 24, 2003)

Anyone who previously hated Anti-Flag should give this record a shot. Musically it's very good and diverse and catchy, and has been in my CD player pretty consistently for the past week (the first AF album to ever do that). Topically.. well you can decide that for yourself, but at least do us all a favor and don't comment on what you haven't heard.

Anonymous (October 24, 2003)

I really like this album, go figure. It sounds very different from their previous material.

-sickboi

notfeelingcreative (October 24, 2003)

boba_fett, when you are presented with an idea or theory you can choose either to accept it or not accept it, I chose to accept that one. So what? And anyone who puts "i'm first bitch" shouldn't judge anyone else's maturity level!

notfeelingcreative (October 24, 2003)

Final summation, you are all assholes because you judge people on musical tastes and political opinions. Aslo, to the mlk, hitler, pol pot guy,you are an idiot because you'll write something that's meant to be sarcastic and get annoyed When people don't pick up on the sarcasm. when somethings is just words people can't tell when you're being saracstic, there's no vocal tone assoicated with it! I don't know what makes it scarier to live in America, the fact that we have morons runnin g the country or the fact that one day it will be assholes like you people!

Anonymous (October 24, 2003)

and im first bitch.

-boba_fett

Anonymous (October 24, 2003)

"I am 57"
then grow up and stop acting like a fucking 16 year old.

funkisdead:
okay. good point.

but the guy who said that if you dont believe in god he doesnt exist: you were told that by a teacher so now you take it as a truth. did it ever occur to you that your teacher may have been wrong? im saying that in the end things will either be right or wrong.

so too the guy who said take a media course: yeah im doing that.

-boba_fett

Anonymous (October 24, 2003)

first.

funkisdead (October 24, 2003)

the point of my shitty analogy was to show that how journalist paints the death of the child in one light... as an unprovoked act of violence, with the deliberate intention of painting a negative portrait of the war in iraq. the reporter does not even need to use the words "unprovoked act of violence." our society's stigma against child-killing means that most readers/viewers will draw their own conclusions. the other journalist writes that the kid had a gun, and it was a matter of life or death.
it is true that the soldier stabbed the kid. you could, theoretically, write an article and say "american soldiers in iraq are killing kids" and it would be true. the mass media does this all the time, to varying degrees.

i took a media course in college, too. i get the impression that it was all pretty idealistic... biases are evident in all aspects of corporate media because it is exactly that... corporate media. different sponsors align themselves with different networks. commercial sponsorship is how these 24/7 news networks get paid, and the networks clearly edit the content of their story to please the place the money comes from. networks are owned by people with political biases, ted turner, for instance, and the credibility of the news on his channel suffers so that turner can spread his political agenda. most news is definitely biased liberally (especially on CNN Europe, which i sit in my hotel room watching all the time), but fox news is just as obviously biased, only with a conservative slant.

your comparison between war and religion is faulty because no empirical evidence is involved in your story. once the people are dead, they are dead... there is no truth to be imparted anywhere, and no revelations are made. yours is an issue of the legitimacy of faith, whereas mine refers to a legitimate series of events which are observed by individuals in the region, and then presented to all of us. in the presentation, human nature takes over, whether subconsciously or intentionally, and the information is naturally altered in the process, regardless of the source.

Anonymous (October 24, 2003)

Special badness.

Anonymous (October 24, 2003)

"I'm sorry, did someone just put Martin Luther King Jr. in the same category as Hitler and Pol Pot? What an idiot."

i knew i should of put that it was sarcasm in brackets, but no ones stupid enough to say that seriously loser.

Anonymous (October 24, 2003)

problem is that the mc5 actually knew what they're saying. Some of the shit anti-flag spews is laughable..

Arnold the governator makes more sense than anti-flag.

Anonymous (October 24, 2003)

There is a lot of propaganda in the media today but you can't flat out say that "all of our media is tainted."
I'm studying media right now in college and it is probably the most interesting class I've ever taken. I recomend that all of you college students out there take at least one class sometime before you graduate that studies media.

Anonymous (October 24, 2003)

here is the deal..........ALL NEWS IS SKEWED........conservatives are going to say that liberal news is biases....and vice versa. There is no winning in this situation. All of us are bull headed and arent going to budge. Nobody is going to change anybody elses opinion about this situation. The simple fact is people are dying. That isnt good. But where do you draw the line.. kill 1 to save a million. Who knows....every body gets all worked up over opinions. Another fact is none of us are the president or in his cabinet. It is like going to a baseball game and watching a guy strike out. It is really easy to say that we could have hit that ball. But what about all the variables. We have no, I repeat no REAL idea of what is going on. All of our information is tainted.

notfeelingcreative (October 23, 2003)

Hmm this seems to be a big divsion of opinions here!

Anonymous (October 23, 2003)

Why am I reading an Anti-Flag review because I can't go on just listening to the Clash for another 25 years and Joe is dead.

Listening as much as possible to new punk material (including Anti-Flag) has repoliticized me - and made me fucking angry! Hell it has even inspired me to start reading the situationist texts.

NOT BORED

Anonymous (October 23, 2003)

age really has nothing to do with it, vortis put out one of the best and very politically active albums of the year(review coming very soon, i promise) and the singer is 60 and the rest of the band is atleast middle age but not only that; zinn, chomsky, palst(i just butchered that) are all old and they are still very far on the left and active in politics

-moldy

notfeelingcreative (October 23, 2003)

Why is a 57 year old reading an anti-flag review? If you're truly 57 and beleive what you said, then that gives me hope that my views will not turn conservative when I am 57 (33 years from now)! It has nothing to do with age.

Anonymous (October 23, 2003)

"its sad, but true. most of us older guys have gone through our antiflag phase. theres a reason older people seem to be more conservative. the older you get the more you learn. and sadly, the more you learn, the more you realize which of your punk rock opinions are based on faulty logic."

Fuck this garbage - I am 57 I was there at UK punk scene in '77. If anything being older and wiser now makes me more fucking angry at the bastards like Bush that are trying to terrorize the whole world into submission. Right on an fight on to all the Punk Bands like Anti-Flag that are fighting back against opression. Burning the US flag brings us back to the MC5 who first did it on stage and were hounded by the fascist bastards of the US state ever after.

The real resistance to the new agressive repression of the US terror state in North America is coming from the punk underground!

NOT BORED - FIGHT BACK

Anonymous (October 23, 2003)

Wow, I would have to say this is deffinately one of the best CD's released this year. Its amazing and it came with a patch and a big fuckin poster too. Its perfect. Buy it now!

-RaNcId PuNx

notfeelingcreative (October 23, 2003)

I agree with the guy below my last post. If you agree with everything the govenment tells you, you're not excercising your freedoms! You might as well live in a fascist state where they tell you what to beleive, since you accept it all as truth anyhow!

notfeelingcreative (October 23, 2003)

You're point only makes sense with clear-cut truths! Like "the sun rises in the east" or "fire burns things" if something is not 100% proveable people have a right to their fucking opinions! Also,in high school I had teachers who said that if one who doesnt beleive in god dies, then he has nothing to worry about! Since god is not real for them he won't exist when they die! So your example was tainted!

Anonymous (October 23, 2003)

ok fuck head. bands question america to make it a better place. if we sat on our asses all day and said god bless america to each other wed be more fucked than we are. and second off, your a fucking nazi for using the word faggot, especially in a serious forum, people like and the pope who hate gays are ruining the world. if you care so much about freedom, your not the one who belongs here your fucking nazi. why dont u get out so people who apreciate their freedom to question the government and be queer can stay.

Anonymous (October 23, 2003)

that was me.

boba_fett

Anonymous (October 23, 2003)

heres an example that everyone hates:

there are 2 men. one grows up and believes in God and and lives a conservative life doing what the bible tells him to. the other man thinks that the bible is bullshit and God doesnt exist.
now we will say that God does exist for the sake of this situation.
the 2 men live their lives how they see right. their souls are at stake here.
when they die they discover that God did exist. one of them was right and the other was wrong. one of them scored and got into heaven and the other gets to burn in hell.
just because the guy didnt believe in God did that cause God to cease to exist? and if God didnt exist would the man believing in him cause him to exist? in the end he exists or he doesnt. what you believe makes no difference to what is really right or wrong. it is not subjective but fundamental and objective.
it's a matter of opinion that hitler was good. this is someones subjective truth. in the end though, hitler was bad. just because this man believed he was good doesnt make him good.

notfeelingcreative (October 23, 2003)

Any American soldier that feels "threatened" by a small Iraqi child should tuck his tail between his legs and run! Though I find it hard to beleive that any American soldier would intentionally kill a child! That wouldn't happen. Although I wouldnt put it past Bush!

notfeelingcreative (October 23, 2003)

Okay, even if you feel that the Mass Media and all of the politicians are right and people like Justin Sane, Howard Zinn, etc are wrong and distorted,look at it through what they are trying to promote (or at least what they say they are trying to promote) even if it's distorted misinformation, ideas like justice, peace and equality are good (even though they may be overly utopian. Just because I listen to Anti-Flag and read zinn, chomsky, or Daniel Guerin doesnt mean I'm going to inflict violence on you or have a problem with you as a person, that seems to me the problem with everyone here! For some reason, people who don't like the same bands as you are labeled "gullible" or "immature" is it MATURE to judge another person by their tastes in music? Come on! I hate to sound old, but back when I was a kid nobody acted this way! And to the person who said Rancid are ruining music, I would bet that you probably liked them until they put out that last piece of crap.

Anonymous (October 23, 2003)

so are you trying to convey that american soldiers are stabbing little iraqi children in the back for no reason? now i see it this way: if the soldier killed the kid for no reason then he was wrong and is guilty of a war crime. if the kid was threatening him and he was in danger and he was forced to kill the kid then he is justified and has done the right thing to protect the lives of other american soldiers. so who ever said it was wrong to kill kids? if the kid wants to act in the world of adults with guns and violence then he should be treated with the same rules that any other radical terrorist is treated under.
"but he was young and didnt know what he was doing!" bullshit. if a kid is pointing a gun at soldiers and threatening them or firing on them he knows god damn well what hes doing. if he lived in any other country and he was shooting at soldiers and threatening them with a gun he would probably be fired upon too.

so in this case: why would it be wrong to kill the kid? it is completely justified and it was an act of self defense and the defense of others. you have to face the consequences of your actions.

but peronnaly i havent read anywhere that US marines are killing iraqi children for no reason so this strikes me as a rather absurd example.

and to justin: that website is little in the fact that its readership is most likely a very small number of people where as the big networks have millions of viewers daily. and who told you that indie reporting was less biased? its just left of center which is where you stand so you see less bias in its report because it says what you want to hear.

-boba_fett

joeg (October 23, 2003)

this score is for re-run from "what's happening" and "what's happening now" passing away 2 days ago.

Anonymous (October 23, 2003)

the only good thing anti-flag has ever done is signing much the same...this score is for "quitters never win"

funkisdead (October 23, 2003)

wow, i should proofread before i post such huge things. this score is for my grammar.

funkisdead (October 23, 2003)

you say the car is there, i say the car isn't, but in the end, who fucking cares? in the end, who is affected by the presence of the car?
no emotional convictions are present, no lives are lost, nothing is in flux. if the car is there or not has no bearing on how much money you make today, how much money your boss makes today, how many people decide to sell their stocks today, how many people decide to buy stocks today, the value of the dollar internationally. no freedoms are called into question.

lets say you are in iraq. you see fucked up things. you see bombs hit schools, you see bombs hit targets of strategic importance. you don't like war, but you never really studied the politics of it on a global level. you are just driven through moral conviction. you write for a newspaper. you hate that people live and people die, and there's no practical solution. you hate that all of this goes on, but your paycheck stays steady. you've had a history of writing bullshit articles about city goingson, but nothing to catch the eye of your editor.
so one day as you walk through the streets, you see an american soldier stab a young arab boy. regardless of whether the boy pressed the barrel of a 9mm into the soldier's back, your article will focus on the murder of the boy. the situation was quite different. circumstances played a primary role in the shaping of the situation, but that ambassador of american values in a foreign land just killed that fucking kid!
in the editing process, your editor calls you up... wow, that article was great. you write for the wall street journal, or the new york times, or the san fransisco chronicle. "lets see some more of that shit. this war is fucked up." you agree. you never thought of yourself as liberal, per se. you always though you rode the fence. but wow, this war is fucked up.
and maybe now, you stop caring about the fact that terrorism IS a legitmate threat to society, and the fact that syria and iran (two countries that shamelessly sponsor global terrorists) border iraq, which clearly delineate the strategic importance of having a friendly iraq.
you have been bitten by the bug. it is fucked up that people die for other people's causes, and you want to get that point out.
your friends have friends who've died in the war, and you've seen them change.

so yeah, that american did stab that kid. you don't even need to lie about it in the paper... don't even mention the fact that it was done for life and death. in fact, who fucking cares about investigating the situation? it is wrong to kill kids!

sure, its all true. but there is a lot more to truth than any "yellow car across the street" could metaphorically convey.

how ever many years you've been alive, meeting different people, breaking hearts and being broken... thats how many years you've had to become opinionated. thats how many years you've had to form your own subconcious definitions of truth.

Anonymous (October 23, 2003)

Oh, yeah, those "little" websites. I guess having reporters in dozens of countrys all over the world reporting news constitutes that site as "little". But, that isn't the point.

The point is that independent sources tend to be a lot less biased. It is good to get news from many different sources so you can find the truth for yourself. For example, it is a good idea to read foreign news reports.

-Justin

Anonymous (October 23, 2003)

"So, if I get what you're saying, telling the truth is being biased."

how do you know cnn isnt telling the truth? you call that bias. cbs is bias, nbc is bias even the fucking cbc is bias.

how can you tell that these little websites of yours are where the truth is at? by definition they are going to present the article from a different perspective adding their own bias to the report.

your little websites dont tell the truth, the networks dont tell the truth, its up to you to figure out what the truth is.

and the guy who talks about subjective truth: there is a yellow car parked accross the street from me. i can see it, you cant. you decide that im not telling the truth and that there is no yellow car there. you have your truth and i have mine but in the end whos truth is true? things can be subjective but in the its either going to be right or wrong. subjective truth is a altruistic idea created by a society that hates to criticize other people and tell them when they are wrong.
and no i didnt just contradict what i said before, i said you have to figure out the truth, not create a truth.

-boba_fett

Anonymous (October 23, 2003)

"when 9/11 happened, all the songs on the Bouncing Souls split were Pro-american"

Ok, heres an example of the "pro-american" lyrics from the A-F/BS split:

"American tax dollars fund terror"
"I will not sign my blind faith away to the unjust leader of the unjust police state"
"No borders no nations no flags no patriots"
"Madison and Jefferson are turning in their grave"

Anonymous (October 23, 2003)

why this must be the most heated debate ive ever seen on this site. i kinda like it. but boys, and gals, put away the petty differences and the most important thing when debating is to remain neutral and to present facts, not biased garbage, keep the emotion out of the fight. and none of the hardcore liberal people (mike moore, chomsky, etc.) TELL YOU YOU HAFTA THINK LIKE THEM MOST OF ALL< THE MESSAGE IS TO THINK FOR YOURSELF, and they present there views its up to you, whether or not you belive, thats up to you and u only

Anonymous (October 23, 2003)

kid, even as a sociologist, i can spit some practical philosophy here... truth is defined by man... man is an emotional beast... truth is subjective... there are also different degrees of truth. the tone of something can change the way that it is presented to you.

i found a ticket on the ground to a chimera, ill nino, and sevendust show. what a shitty day.

funkisdead (October 23, 2003)

genuine objectivity in the media is a practical fucking impossibility. it is all one big fucking oxymoron. we are people. our opinions on life and our moral values, our individual upbringings, the way teacher's nurture you in the class room... all of these things shape your world view.
i cannot think of a single person who is not moved emotionally given the prospect of human suffering. we naturally have feelings about the way that the world works.
i know this all sounds like shitty high school history... but seriously. to think someone who has dedicated their lives to journalism and imparting knowledge to their fellow man has no moral agenda or moral convictions is naivete.

and none of this changes the fact that this band sucks. and i just saw a new york dolls video on vh1. the drummer looks like a monkey.

Anonymous (October 23, 2003)

"all those sites are still biased you fool. they're just bias their stories the way you like them."

I guess commondreams.org is biased. But not the others.

So, if I get what you're saying, telling the truth is being biased.

-Justin

Anonymous (October 23, 2003)

and to all you people that say that america should cease its occupation of iraq immediately:
if the US army left then iraq would fall apart into even greater turmoil. so wether you like it or not your troops are stuck there so you might as well support the troops who unlike us do something important for the world and risk their lives daily.

-boba_fett

Anonymous (October 23, 2003)

all those sites are still biased you fool. they're just bias their stories the way you like them.

the problem with punks is that they consider themselves to be the enlightened few who know better than everybody else 'cause they aren't tainted by what the networks and the government say.

-boba_fett
(so fucking ignorant)

thriceequalsgod (October 23, 2003)

thanks, thats awesome

Anonymous (October 23, 2003)

i agree with the list of books below but i would also like to add
"live from death row" by mumia abbu jamal while more about the prison systems and justice in america than corruption, it does shead light onto the ghastly state of our prisons and the justice system. Its an excellent book even if the author is "a cop killing faggot"

Anonymous (October 23, 2003)

Here are some websites you could check out for news that isn't skewed:

www.commondreams.org
www.indymedia.org
www.accuracy. org
www.fair.org

-Justin

Anonymous (October 23, 2003)

Well, here is a list to get you started:

Understanding Power: The Indispensable Chomsky by Noam Chomsky
Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace by Gore Vidal
A People's History of the United States : 1492-Present by Howard Zinn
Power and Terror: Post 9-11 Talks and Interviews by Noam Chomsky
The Best Democracy Money Can Buy: The Truth About Corporate Cons, Globalization and High-Finance Fraudsters by Greg Palast
Propaganda and the Public Mind by David Barsamian
Weapons of Mass Deception: The Uses of Propaganda in Bush's War on Iraq by Sheldon Rampton
Forbidden Truth: U.S.-Taliban Secret Oil Diplomacy, Saudi Arabia and the Failed Search for bin Laden by Jean-Charles Brisard
Big Lies: The Right-Wing Propaganda Machine and How It Distorts the Truth by Joe Conason

There are many good books that I don't feel like listing.

-Justin

thriceequalsgod (October 23, 2003)

ah-hem... let me try that again. here it goes:

im looking for good books so i can educate myself on politics, corruption, America so i know what people are talking about when they talk politics, and so i can argue my point without being a hypocrite.

im reading downsized by michael moore now, and i think its great. anyone have suggestions?

thriceequalsgod (October 23, 2003)

im looking for good books

thriceequalsgod (October 23, 2003)

"that flag represents are freedom, and without that freedom, they wouldn't be able to do anything. they need to show some graditude."

the flag represented freedom when we compare it to the lack of freedom given to the colonists by the British. When we compare it to our situation now, what does it stand for? America? you mean all the corruption, greed, murder and everything we have in this country? compare ourselves to other countries, and don't say "iraq" or "afgahnistan" or some other nations that aren't as well off as us. believe me.. i know we're in great shape compared to a lot of nations, but when you compare us to a lot of European countries, they have as many freedoms as we do, and in some, much more. people there are nice, there aren't as many murders. so why dont those flags represent freedom in just the same way ours does? open your eyes and realize how much wrong there is every day in this country.

Anonymous (October 23, 2003)

"The trial judge was apparently far more concerned to expedite the trial than to ensure the impartial and fair administration of justice. This case was a politicization of the judicial process."

THERE IS NO JUSTICE.
WE ARE ALL GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT. Whoever thinks otherwise, I pity you.
-Janelle

Anonymous (October 23, 2003)

>>when u support the band, u support their cause.

Purple Raaaaiiinn!

>>represents are freedom. they need to show some graditude.

YOU need to retake 9th grade English.

Anonymous (October 23, 2003)

And Mumia is not a cop killer. Mumia is a wrongly imprisoned activist from Philadelphia. The proceedings used to convict and sentence Mumia to death were in violation of minimum international standards that govern fair trial procedures and the use of the death penalty. The trial judge was apparently far more concerned to expedite the trial than to ensure the impartial and fair administration of justice. This case was a politicization of the judicial process.

Anonymous (October 23, 2003)

Oh shit. I posted that douche's mindless dribble. Bah.

-Justin

Anonymous (October 23, 2003)

Mumia shouldn't be supported cuz he's a cop killer. and anti-flag supports the killing of cops?!? thats fucked up to me. when u support the band, u support their cause. when 9/11 happened, all the songs on the Bouncing Souls split were Pro-american. now they're like FUCK America again. what a bunch of assholes!! if they don't like it here so much, why don't they go somewhere else? they complain about it so much and yet they live here!! Fuck the flag?!? that flag represents are freedom, and without that freedom, they wouldn't be able to do anything. they need to show some graditude. yeah, i hate bush too, and he is messing up our country, but saying shit like "fuck the flag" is just stupid. i used to like anti-flag, then they had to support that cop killing faggot. so now i hate them. and i will not buy anything off of their label (A-F records) and their albums. i am boycotting them. i encourage people and fellow punk rockers to join me.

"when 9/11 happened, all the songs on the Bouncing Souls split were Pro-american. now they're like FUCK America again. what a bunch of assholes!!"
Just because they were sympathetic to America during 9/11 doesn't mean they have to support everything America does.

"if they don't like it here so much, why don't they go somewhere else? they complain about it so much and yet they live here!!"
They're trying to make a difference. They don't complain just to complain. Use your fucking head.

"but saying shit like "fuck the flag" is just stupid"
How is this stupid? Explain. If you used your mind, once again, you could see that this is not used in a literal sense. They are basically saying "fuck America and everything America stands for".

"that flag represents are freedom, and without that freedom, they wouldn't be able to do anything. they need to show some graditude."
This is the part that gets me. America was set-up so people could speak out against the government. They don't need to show "respect". I guess real punks like yourself would rather have bands sing about waving your flag and supporting everything your country does. Open up your eyes. It is because of that freedom that they can say things like "fuck the flag".

-Justin

Anonymous (October 23, 2003)

"saying shit like "fuck the flag" is just stupid."

Ok that's your opinion, BUT this isn't anything new...they've mentioned burning the flag before, as have many other bands; Unseen and Defiance come to mind...They DON'T see it as a symbol of freedom, but rather as a symbol of oppression and all that is wrong with America. And as referenced in "One People, One Struggle": "Colors don't mean liberty."

Anonymous (October 23, 2003)

Mumia shouldn't be supported cuz he's a cop killer. and anti-flag supports the killing of cops?!? thats fucked up to me. when u support the band, u support their cause. when 9/11 happened, all the songs on the Bouncing Souls split were Pro-american. now they're like FUCK America again. what a bunch of assholes!! if they don't like it here so much, why don't they go somewhere else? they complain about it so much and yet they live here!! Fuck the flag?!? that flag represents are freedom, and without that freedom, they wouldn't be able to do anything. they need to show some graditude. yeah, i hate bush too, and he is messing up our country, but saying shit like "fuck the flag" is just stupid. i used to like anti-flag, then they had to support that cop killing faggot. so now i hate them. and i will not buy anything off of their label (A-F records) and their albums. i am boycotting them. i encourage people and fellow punk rockers to join me.

Anonymous (October 23, 2003)

anti flag and rancid are clearly identifiable, easily recognizable, and universably acknowledged wrecking balls fucking up the punk rock scene. what they do runs contrary to the spirit of individuality that the music was founded upon. they are hypocrites. they are prime examples of artistic integrity being traded for cold cash. they essential stuck a price tag on the principles on which they based their artistry.
sure, rancid didn't sell themselves to Sony back in 1994. it was a matter of pride to reject the $xxx,xxx offer from the purple-haired ceo. as soon as real life hits, as soon as wives leave and addictions settle back in, suddenly that old offer starts to sound really fucking good. justifications are made, money is accepted. these justifications are the exact justifications the band shit-talked years earlier, the money is the money the band shit-talked years earlier.
sure, anti-flag aren't on a major label. but remember those stupid songs from back in the day? notice how as soon as they have an easily visible target, they have an excuse to ditch the stupidity for misdirected, nicely produced, clean sounding rage. this is a band that recognizes the anti-war leanings of the mostly liberal scene into which it was born. this band recognizes that hollywood and the news don't like the war on iraq, and that it is oh-so-fashionable to be anti these days.
in their haste to say the same things that have been said countless times before by people with more education and better researched opinions. they are not remotely hesitant to spread unrest and authoritatian distrust among misinformed, jaded adolescents. evidently, they are not remotely hestitant to open their pockets to corporate cash, either.
i mean, sure kid, there is worse music out there. worse music everywhere. i would listen to rancid or anti-flag rather than plenty of other shit. but hypocritical behavior calculated to increase profit margins in spite of a career-long dedication to shit-talking the coopting of revolutions killed the respect that lots of us had for these two bands.
lets hear it for the revenge of mallcore in 2004, baby.

funkisdead (October 23, 2003)

no, its more than opinion. its deliberate manipulation of facts, and the preference for certain aspects of facts rather than others.
in some cases its done for the greater good of some greater cause... "the ends justify the means." in others, its done from ignorance.
keep in mind in either case, its done to sell you something.

notfeelingcreative (October 23, 2003)

Anti-Flag, CNN, Noam Chomsky, Propaghandi, Howard Zinn, it's ALL opinion, the opinions refelcted there within are the opinions of the band, network, author etc. I heppen to listen to alot of different types of music. I would bet than anyone on here who has such a strong dislike for Anti-Flag could list their favorite bands and I will probably agree on most of them. Yes, anti-flag are a gateway for alot of kids to expose them to other artists that they may not have previously been exposed to, but for the life of me, I can't understand why with all of the crap thats out, people here tend to concentrate on their hate for Anti-Flag and Rancid!

notfeelingcreative (October 23, 2003)

I'm sorry, did someone just put Martin Luther King Jr. in the same category as Hitler and Pol Pot? What an idiot.

funkisdead (October 23, 2003)

i'm just saying that propagandhi have such fucking intense lyrics and such a huge message they want to impart, but they chose an irrealistic medium for doing so... "the medium" being a reference to the melodic, catchy-as-fuck punk rock of the band's earlier work, rather than the hardcore of today's empires...

they manage to inject some humor into their bleak message, and they cover a lot of bases, lyrically and musically speaking. they partake in plenty of self-mockery that lets the punch of their personal politics hit that much harder... it makes the band seem more like "real people" than sloganeering, money hungry, clear channel clowns. their appeal lies in the overblown nature of the music, from the crazy guitar solos on the recent album, to the juxtaposition (gotta love that word) of searing political diatribes with catchy, heart-on-your sleeve melodicism. there, i can write for pitchfork now.

i love propagandhi, with or without the politics. i think that they do what they do amazingly well, and i eagerly await their new album.

this score is for hillary swank's breasts.

Anonymous (October 23, 2003)

"and not in the goofy, cartoonish way that propagandhi do it."

WTF???
You just made yourself one powerfull enemy my fat-headed friend.

Anonymous (October 23, 2003)

bravo funk bravo. we all (at least most of us) pass through the anti-flag phase at some point in our early teen years and realize the excrement that justin sane shits from his piehole was just that.

funkisdead (October 23, 2003)

the only substantive contribution that anti-flag make to this "scene" is the gateway effect... kids hear anti-flag and hear the "rebellion" in the lyrics, they dig the energy, and they get a taste of some "free-thinking." later on, they get into more punk rock, they dig deeper to find better bands and better music with a better message. then, they move beyond the music and the message and read between the lines. they go out and buy books.

the smart kids read books that present both sides of the argument in cold hard facts, avoiding the bias presented by idealistic philosophical or moral statements. the stupid kids feed on a steady diet of chomsky and let themselves become fucking brainwashed.

the liberal media is everywhere. the conservative media is less prevalent but just as biting, contrived, and calculated.

cnn and fox news are on television. people own both of those networks. regardless of their actual understanding of facts, they have the ability to control what the general public sees, and shine differently shaded lights on global situations to color our collective opinions.

the fact is that everyone, whether its anti-flag, fox news, cnn, or noam chomsky, have agendas that lead to the tainting of facts. in their minds, they can justifiably edit what we see and how we see it because it furthers a cause which they believe in. in some cases, the cause they further is the cause of whomever is covering their expenses.

i dont look to anti-flag for any political insight. the things they say are entry-level, band-wagon hopping, sloganeering bullshit. i say the same thing about the latest suicide machines record.

i look to the bands for the music... either you like the band or not. i don't let poorly researched political-ideology determine my core beliefs and values. this band is in a position where, rather than merely cramming flavor-of-the-month lyrical tripe into 3 minuts of heard-if-before-punk, they could really get kids to think for themselves. to educate themselves.

no one should determine what you believe. they are fucking beliefs... what you think. you should do that for yourself, scientifically, so that you can formulate the most productive thoughts possible.

in my opinion, this band is a parody of itself. and not in the goofy, cartoonish way that propagandhi do it. this band sells itself to kids, without really offering insight, and doing it through corporately owned venues. if you think the guys and gals at fucking clear channel give a shit about george bush or wars for oil, you are horribly wrong. they care about cash, they recognize that tame rebellion is easily packaged, and they capitalize upon it. anti-flag do the same thing.
this record makes me wonder if they are stupid enough to not realize it.

Anonymous (October 23, 2003)

"just becasue someone stands up for what they believe doesnt make them any better... hitler anyone?"

yeah, Adolph Hitler, Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Pol Pot, ...theyre all the same...

"i think that people forget that in iraq when saddam was in power if you spoke out he tortured you and killed you. now with the US in control they're alowed to speak out so they're complaining cause they couldn't before. and you people should all remember that if saddam was in power in the US you wouldnt be able to speak out. but in the end, Bush is the big bad guy. i must have missed something."

It should be up to the Iraqi people to determine what they want for their country, not the U.S, but thanks to U.S enforced sanctions against Iraq for more than 12 years, the population has been drastically weakened, not to mention having killed approx 1 million people. The U.S has had no problem with dictators in the past as long as they were U.S friendly - Pol Pot, Suharto, Pinochet to name a few and of course Hussein. Once they fall out of line the bombs fall. The Us has overthrown democratically elected socialist governments such as in Chile with Salvador Allende. I cant be fucked to explain this further, but simply put, If you have this idea that America is this well intentioned innocent beacon of peace and democarcy fighting for all thats good your foolin yaself.And i dont care ive taken up probably the whole page.

Anonymous (October 23, 2003)

boba_fett -
Your statement utilizes simplistic dualistic thinking, there isn't a "one's the good guy, one's the bad guy" relationship between Bush and Saddam (i.e., just because Saddam is/was terrible does not mean Bush is automatically good for fighting him and has no ulterior interests). The reason people are complaining is because every day several completely innocent people get shot by understandably nervous soldiers, and because they want to be in control of their own country and not have things like that happen. Unfortunately, because we are embroiled in this situation, that cannot happen, so we should take a close look at WHY we are in Iraq and whose interests are being served.

With that said, I'd like to say that Anti-Flag are OK although their lyrics also tend to have logical fallacies in them. I might check this out since Anti-Flag was surprisingly improved on the Bouncing Souls split (even though the Souls are obviously the better songwriters).

Anonymous (October 23, 2003)

These shitheads are just as bad as the fox news channel

Anonymous (October 23, 2003)

All style no substance!

Ted_The_Bellhop (October 23, 2003)

that kid is right, rank and file is a mephiskaphles song and a damn good one too. long live ska. Even though I highly doubt Anti-Flag covered it though

Anonymous (October 22, 2003)

I don't know if anyone's said this yet(and i'm too lazy to check) and i don't know if it's true for the copies you get in stores, but on the inside of the outer cover of the cd antiflags been giving out at their shows theres some artwork antiflag wants you to help them get out. check it out.

Anonymous (October 22, 2003)

"i think that people forget that in iraq when saddam was in power if you spoke out he tortured you and killed you. now with the US in control they're alowed to speak out so they're complaining cause they couldn't before."

They're complaining because US soldiers are just as bad as Republic Guard...

notfeelingcreative (October 22, 2003)

"Get some better music"-NFG rawker
Is this for real? NFG? Can it get any dumber! Finish the eighth grade then we'll talk.

Anonymous (October 22, 2003)

"yeah i forgot just how great saddam was to his people, i mean he was just a role model for everyone to look up to.
i think that people forget that in iraq when saddam was in power if you spoke out he tortured you and killed you. now with the US in control they're alowed to speak out so they're complaining cause they couldn't before. and you people should all remember that if saddam was in power in the US you wouldnt be able to speak out.

but in the end, Bush is the big bad guy. i must have missed something. "

Yeah, yeah Saddam was bad, I agree. But why did Dick Chaney do business deals with Iraqi oil tycoons...?

Anonymous (October 22, 2003)

Well Rank and File, not rack
-Janelle

Anonymous (October 22, 2003)

"wait, is that rack and file song a cover of the Mephisakphiles song?"

That's what I was thinking at first too that it possibly might be, but NO IT'S NOT. THAT SONG RULES THOUGH.
-Janelle

Anonymous (October 22, 2003)

wait, is that rack and file song a cover of the Mephisakphiles song?

Anonymous (October 22, 2003)

What does that patch look like that comes with it, if your ordered it at interpunk or fat?

Anonymous (October 22, 2003)

yeah i forgot just how great saddam was to his people, i mean he was just a role model for everyone to look up to.
i think that people forget that in iraq when saddam was in power if you spoke out he tortured you and killed you. now with the US in control they're alowed to speak out so they're complaining cause they couldn't before. and you people should all remember that if saddam was in power in the US you wouldnt be able to speak out.

but in the end, Bush is the big bad guy. i must have missed something.

-boba_fett

Anonymous (October 22, 2003)

i'm gonna vote cuz it won't hurt anything, 99% chance that it won't matter since whomever the democrat we vote in power will be a good ole boy and just do business as usual, and any of the ones who were real threats to the system(Dean, Kucinich, Sharpton, and even Clark to an extent), will probably not be the candidates in '04 and it will be on of the dooshes that supported the war, then back tracked

Anonymous (October 22, 2003)

Pfft. Capitalist pig.

-Justin

Anonymous (October 22, 2003)

Cash rules eveything around me

Anonymous (October 22, 2003)

This album is quite good.

Anonymous (October 22, 2003)

In the spirit of Halloween, let me add: Boooooooooooo!

Anonymous (October 22, 2003)

I can't understand how anyone with more than a grade school education likes this crap. The music is cliched and the lyrics are absurd.

Punker86 (October 22, 2003)

Punk rock used to be apathy. A reaction to the hippies. Finally another clash-esque band has said what needs to be said about the world.

On another note, I will be one month late to vote our soon-to-be dictator out of power. Not that our votes really matter anymore anyways.

Anonymous (October 22, 2003)

With all the political speak, thought this might be a nice way to plug this interview with Pennywise:

http://rebelnoise.com/viewinterview.php?id=42

-J anelle

notfeelingcreative (October 22, 2003)

I'm an idiot. I spent all those posts bitching and defending a-f but never said anything about the actual record! Musically it's less powerful than DFTG or a new kind of army, but lyrically there starting to put a little more though into the process. THey seem to have gotten away from the "fuck you america" type childish mindset and started to use actualy facts to support their lyrics (as someone else noted below)! Anyhow, I think it's a deent record.

Anonymous (October 22, 2003)

The score is for the record... hands down the most amazing A-F release ever (this coming from someone who would consider himself #1 fan).

First thing... to the people that don't like the fact that Anti-Flag is getting some airplay on Clear Channel radio (because we know those comments are coming): If corporate radio has given a voice to someone with lyrics that aren't cheesy pop punk or nu metal, it would be very counterproductive to not use it. One of the key principles to socialism (in my mind) is using the system to tear it down from the inside.

Second. Seriously, your screen name is NFGrawker or something to that effect... keep in mind that Anti-Flag and New Found Glory are friends, and have toured together.. just because A-F doesn't write dumbed down lyrics about soured relationships doesn't mean that they're not good.

Yes, some of the content is repetetive, but that's fine... it's time some kids get messages like this drilled into their heads.

And the reason they won't write another "Drink Drank Punk" or "I'm Being Watched by the CIA" is because they're a different band, for the most part. Don't get me wrong, I love Andy-era Flag, but the addition of Chris Head and Chris #2 have added a much better dynamic to the band.

Umm... I'm done rambling.
-Adam Social
(Pittsburgh Represent)
www.pittpunk.com

Anonymous (October 22, 2003)

just thought i'd point out that two of the dudes to criticize anti-flags music have usernames dedicated to blink182 and new found glory-their opinions are worthless

Anonymous (October 22, 2003)

"just becasue someone stands up for what they believe doesnt make them any better... hitler anyone?"

No more typing for you.

-Justin

Anonymous (October 22, 2003)

just becasue someone stands up for what they believe doesnt make them any better... hitler anyone?

notfeelingcreative (October 22, 2003)

I love anti-flag! I'' 24 and will have a college degree in half a year. Also, I didnt even start liking anti-flag until I was nineteen! Sure their ideas are over-simplified but at least they have ideas!

Anonymous (October 22, 2003)

nope. they don't get more educated than justin sane. i mean come on, giving 15 year old fashion core punks the same mindless, directionless, half assed bullshit "political" speeches at every show counts for something.....hahaha. i almost believed myself there for a second.

Anonymous (October 22, 2003)

i respect AF. they stand up for what they preach, and they are unbelievably educated in the matters they talk about. i have chosen to start educating myself and form my own opinion. i hate bullshitting a statement, because i wouldn't have any idea what im talking about and it would just be a compilation of opinions ive heard from different people. before anyone says anything about the government, politics, even the history of music; go educate yourself so you know what youre talking about. otherwise, what you say doesn't mean anything.

Anonymous (October 22, 2003)

"terrorists that kill their own people(yasar arrifat.. spelling?) "

HAHAHAHA
You watch Fox news too much.

Anonymous (October 22, 2003)

I have my opinions, and they are similar to those of AF.
I've never been to AF concert, because they've never played in Australia.
Their msg and their lyrics might be juvenile compared to those of Propagandhi (Whom I like more than any other band), but I would still rather listen to a band that has great music with mediocre political lyrics, than any other bands that sing about girls, break ups, broken hearts, or whatever.

Anonymous (October 22, 2003)

yes, having conservative parents and living in a conservative area is the ONLY reason people turn conservative.

if that were true it would be the same for bleeding heart leftists... they have parents and overbearing communities too (or did you think the right was the only side spitting out trashy propaganda... please)

terrible propaganda exists on all sides of the fence, dont be an idiot.

...or were you too busy chanting and pumping your fist to fit in with the rest of the drones at the antiflagg concert?

think for yourself, dont let AF force their opinion down your throat

Anonymous (October 22, 2003)

I don't know one person below 21 that likes Anti-Flag (or maybe I don't hang around with the kids), if you turned 16, and start hating them, becuase of your conservative parents, don't diss the kids.

Anonymous (October 22, 2003)

You know, for all you people that said no one over 15 listens to these guys, for the most part, you may be right. However, for the younger crowd, Anti-Flag is a perfect transition band. They open eyes as to some of what is happening around the world (and specifically here), and teach kids a view of politics that I doubt is being taught at home or school. Even if a lot of people stop listening to them eventually, at least they probably brought them into a new genre of music that they might not have discovered through less accessible bands.

inagreendase (October 22, 2003)

"when are we gonna get a review of the new distillers cd though, im waiting on reading a review of it before i even think about buying it"

I think a lot of us salute you for making it that far already!

notfeelingcreative (October 22, 2003)

How is bitching about punk any fucking different that Anti-Flag bitching about politics? What do YOU do to change the world? At least they're trying to get ideas out there other than oi oi oi, drink beer! Or you ripped out my heart and set it ablaze emo stuff! Sure, they're not John Lennon (no one can ever be John Lennom again but at least they're trying) and to the person like 30 posts down: free mumia!

notfeelingcreative (October 21, 2003)

Say what you will, I will love this band 'til I am in my grave!

Anonymous (October 21, 2003)

A-F was the band that got me thinking about politics and shit, and i used to think that they just repeat themselves too much, but then again my friend who got me into the band is just now reading Howard Zinn for the first time, so I guess some kids pick up on what they're trying to say quicker than others, some kids just listen to it cuz it pisses their parents off, others cuz they actually get what the bands saying. I'd like it more if they did more abstract songs that aren't necessarily about politics like "Death of A Nation", or got back to writing more fun songs like "I'm Being Watched By the CIA" or "Drink Drank Punk"

really, Spaz's House Destruction Party, and Cpt. Anarchy were some of the last non-political songs they ever made

Anonymous (October 21, 2003)

i like the new album, i think its better than anything they have ever done before.

when are we gonna get a review of the new distillers cd though, im waiting on reading a review of it before i even think about buying it

Anonymous (October 21, 2003)

america sucks
bush is a moron

Anonymous (October 21, 2003)

"FUCK BUSH, FUCK THE FLAG!

yeah...anyone over 15 that takes these fools seriously should get their head examined."

Shut your mouth if you dont know your facts. Anti-Flag do not just say those statements. For each song they have explanations, supporting facts, information, where to get more information about the subject, ext. They do care about the government and do care about murders of the innocence. Think before you speak.

BSD (October 21, 2003)

Yeah, I mean, I can understand thinking Anti-Flag are tame, but when you say real political lyrics are those of the Refused... Well you lose your argumentative credibility.

left_on_red (October 21, 2003)

Anti-flag is a great band. They beleive in every word they say unlike alot of trash you hear today. They stand for many good causes and to the guy that said why dont they do something about the problems and stop bitching about them or something to that extent. Well they do alot they are socially active people and anyone who likes anti-flag should check out whatever it takes.

Anonymous (October 21, 2003)

This album is fuckin amazing. They are not preaching or bitching either. I'm 23, majoring in Political Science and there's nothing wrong with Anti-Flag. They state the truth and they do take action in what they sing about by attending rallies and benefit concerts. Buy this album.

Anonymous (October 21, 2003)

Ramo- You're going to the show at BB Kings Thursday? I will see you there.
-Janelle

Anonymous (October 21, 2003)

Power to the Peaceful sounds like a Pistol Grip song. "The unwanted" maybe? That's to the guy who think's he's heard the song before.

This is for all the kids who say Anti-Flag just sits around. What do you do? Fucking sit on your computer where nobody can see you're true identity and bitch about bands whose talent you can only dream of having. I'm tired of you. "When did the scene become such a joke?"

Since when is trying to get your message out just sitting around and bitching? Even though they do much more than that, it's still more than you do. Cut them some slack for believing in something, instead of conforming to whatever this site tells you is uncool.

Anonymous (October 21, 2003)

If i wanted to be yelled at I would much rather listen to my parents than these fools. At least they have something worthwhile to say..

Anonymous (October 21, 2003)

"maybe you were too engrossed in your Star Wars action figures to notice."

Quote of the day. Thank you.
-Janelle

mrwaffles (October 21, 2003)

Boba fett, have you ever wondered what happened to the gigantic surplus and the rest of the world not hating us? Bush happened. maybe you were too engrossed in your Star Wars action figures to notice.
On a seperate note, im not sure why antiflag gets criticized and bands like Propagandhi and Against All Authority dont (that was not a propagndhi or AAA diss, i love all 3 bands.)

BSD (October 21, 2003)

It's not the human thing to say "I love Bush" either... Boba Fett, you suck...

Anonymous (October 21, 2003)

Oi oi oi oi oi!

boba_fett (October 21, 2003)

this score is for Bush. its not the 'punk' thing to say but i think he's great.

too bad all you hardcore punks.

boba_fett (October 21, 2003)

"tomblink182: 'get some better music - nfgrawker'"

look at your names, you 2 are the real posers here.

inagreendase (October 21, 2003)

"This band needs to grow up and start doing something about the problems in the world, rather than just bitch about them. "

They're going to D.C. tomorrow to protest the U.S. occupation of Iraq and rally for the impeachment of Bush. I'd say that's something.

This CD is good after a couple listens, I must say, and much more varied than any of their other releases. I'll probably end up thinking it's their best album in a few days.

Anonymous (October 21, 2003)

So, people bitch when punk's make music about girls

people bitch when punks make music about drugs

people bitch when punks make music about politics

people bitch when punks make music

that's pretty much what i've gotten out of what you all have said...you bitch and call people cynics when they say "we're all going to hell in a handbasket so who cares" and you bitch and tell people who cares when they try to do something

Unseen Something To Say lyrics
I've got something to say
And I just can't fucking hold it anymore
It means more to me today
Then it ever fucking did before
I'm a punk
And I've finally learned what it means to me
It doesn't dictate who I am
I define what the word means

Anonymous (October 21, 2003)

This could be the worst album ever. I defended anti-flag for 3 years through some pretty shitty albums, songs, and even shittier and shittier preformances as years gone by.

After hearing this album i have no doubt that i will be leaving before their set on their tour with Rise Against / Against Me! and None More Black.

This album is good if you like pure shit punk with "socially concious" lyrics.

sonicice (October 21, 2003)

Now don't get me wrong, I'm no Anti-Flag fanboy, not in any shape way or form (I think I only actually own Underground Network... or whatever the album is with the black star with red background and yellow text on the cd), but this:

"I'd like them more if they actually did something productive rather than releasing records complaining about the government."

bothers me. Like I said before, who's to say that they aren't doing something more productive in their spare time? I, for one, am glad they do what they do, as it gets kids to open up their eyes and minds and some of them use it to think for themselves (while a majority do just take everything A-F says as truth, which is sad), but at least they are trying to get people thinking by making music instead of wasting their time flipping burgers.

There is no way Anti-Flag is naive enough to think that their records alone are going to make any change.

Anonymous (October 21, 2003)

Also, this album is better than I thought it would be.

-Justin

Anonymous (October 21, 2003)

"making false peace promises to terrorists that kill their own people(yasar arrifat.. spelling?"

What the fuck are you talking about? Seriously, don't post another message here again. Since when has Yassar Arrifat killed his own people? Since when was he a terrorist?

-Justin

Anonymous (October 21, 2003)

Worst album of the year. By the worst band in the last ten years. Marketed to the least revolutionary punk scene in the last twenty years. Congratulations Anti-Flag: you've won the triple crown of suck.

Anonymous (October 21, 2003)

I'd like them more if they actually did something productive rather than releasing records complaining about the government.

Anonymous (October 21, 2003)

oh, and the best song is death of a nation hands down

Anonymous (October 21, 2003)

I found it to be their best since DFTG
i got it for free and bought Pipedown's new cd, and the Paint It Black's cd, and the Pipedown one was definitely the best i got for the night, although paint it black is an extrememly close second

Anonymous (October 21, 2003)

i have poor grammer also

Anonymous (October 21, 2003)

i would rather see general political bashing. You never saw fat mike or justin sane calling Clinton a liar when he was getting head from an intern and lied UNDER OATH to the entire country. Not that marital infidelity or rape (kobe bryant) is comparable to the killing of innocents......And i dont agree with what bush has done at all.....I only applaud him for not immediately retaliating against al queda...All i know is that ALL politics is a lying scheme and anyone and everyone is a money grubbing pile of trash (richard nixon). Gore would have been ten times worse off though. An indecisive yes man would have blown afghanastan out of the water because of pressure from the department of defense. It is a lose lose situation so all the people that hate bush for just because hes bush can blow it out their ear because this situation would have happened to gore also. Clinton was too busy screwing interns and making false peace promises to terrorists that kill their own people(yasar arrifat.. spelling?) to recognize the problems this country was facing.

Anonymous (October 21, 2003)

I like it, better than i thought-oldpunker-

Anonymous (October 21, 2003)

whenever i read comments like the one below i bet theyre just said to get a response, but if that Mumia comment below is serious, fuck asshole, tell us why Mumia shouldnt be supported, cos otherwise i say "fry your stupid white ass all the way to hell man"!!!

Anonymous (October 21, 2003)

Fuck Anti-Flag!! anyone that supports Mumia should be shot and burn in hell!!!

Anonymous (October 21, 2003)

If you like the lyrics from Anti Flag, I suggest you drop out of philosophy and major in Sociology at university. Then you will see how the world truly is!! And it ain't pretty my friends. Karl Marx and history indeed.

Anonymous (October 21, 2003)

I haven't heard this album so I won't comment on it. I liked their split they did with DBS back in the day (North America Sucks), but haven't liked anything since really.
To the apathetic guy below who says nobody over 15 believes in their ideas (or something to that effect). Well I think you should wake up and look at the world around you because it has only been getting worse and songs like Anti Flag (and especially Propagandhi) sing have never been more relevant. Maybe when you get unemployed and your unemployment runs out and your medical insurance runs out you will wake up. (not that this has happened to me).

KirbyPuckett (October 21, 2003)

Pittsburgh!

YAY!

Ahem...

It's a good record, check it out.

Most of you will and those who don't will lie and say they did just to sit here and bitch about how terrible the band is.

Suckers.

- Scott
http://www.local-felons.com/
(I have hat hair)

Anonymous (October 21, 2003)

"yeah...anyone over 15 that takes these fools seriously should get their head examined."

its sad, but true. most of us older guys have gone through our antiflag phase. theres a reason older people seem to be more conservative. the older you get the more you learn. and sadly, the more you learn, the more you realize which of your punk rock opinions are based on faulty logic.

i used to like them alot, just be warned, it will liekly change for you too

Anonymous (October 21, 2003)

"i'm sorry. the score is for the comment below me. that is the funniest thing i've read on this site in a long time and i can't stop laughing.

'get some better music - nfgrawker'

aahahaha"

DUDE!
your name is tomblink182...seriously....and it's pretty obvious that "nfgrawker" is a joke, but you on the other hand................................. well actually you're a joke too, you just don't know it yet.

Anonymous (October 21, 2003)

Nothing groundbreaking....that's for sure, but still a solid album. Pretty similar to Underground Network. The recording quality is fantastic, almost sounds major label.

TheOneTrueBill (October 21, 2003)

I liked them better when...

...

...

fuck I hate this band

Anonymous (October 21, 2003)

Seriously, this is one good album.

If you don't like them, fine, but don't talk trash all the fucking time.
Your favorite bands suck too, you know.

Jesse (October 21, 2003)

They always have a great message behind their music, what bothers me is when people listen to it and say that it doesn't matter....

I started my radio show today, and we're suggested to play some records off of the top 50 records at the college. I decided to play the first track on this new album. Just have to say, I wasn't impressed. It seemed too poppy and dumbed down compared to what I'm used to for Anti-Flag.

Die For Your Government was a fairly crappy album, not too good. I still am a fan of A New Kind of Army. Anti-Flag shows their creative side with this CD and the song writing and musicianship is undenyable.

Anonymous (October 21, 2003)

ANTI-FLAG SUXX. DEY STNK! DAY PREECH ANN NEVR SAI SHYT!

ok i tried my best and failed miserably. anyway, i hope they're good live. i know the 23rd is gonna be the bomb diggy.

Ramo

Anonymous (October 21, 2003)

i never hated anti-flag until i saw them live...
if i wanted to be told what to wear, where to shop, and how to think i'd listen to my parents...
DOWN WITH CAPITALISM...but buy our merch cause it's cool

sonicice (October 21, 2003)

I always get a kick out of these kids who tell Anti-Flag to go out and do something about it instead of just singing, as if Anti-Flag constantly records/plays music 24/7 of their life. I don't believe for a second that A-F doesn't go to protests and that they aren't politically involved. I think some of you need to jump off the "I Hate Anti-Flag Because Everyone Else Does" bandwagon and practice what you preach, thinking for yourselves instead of doing what everyone else does.

This score is for the album by the way. A pretty solid release in my opinion, especially compared to Mobilize. Does "Power to the Peaceful" sound like some other song to anyone else? I keep having these 'music deja vu's' lately, but I swear I've heard a similar song before.

Anonymous (October 20, 2003)

they really just need to give it up i liked them when i was about 13 then found alot better political bands.
and this is more off topic but the unseen have turned into a REALLy good band theyre more in the vain of strike anywhere now and they lyrics are really impressive and musically gotten alot tighter and are just a good band now. why i wrote this i dont know im just really bored

Anonymous (October 20, 2003)

i'd much rather just listen to good riddance and the bouncing souls

ElVaquero (October 20, 2003)

Listen up, I'm only going to say this once. It's good music.

Anonymous (October 20, 2003)

FUCK BUSH, FUCK THE FLAG!

yeah...anyone over 15 that takes these fools seriously should get their head examined.

tomblink182 (October 20, 2003)

i'm sorry. the score is for the comment below me. that is the funniest thing i've read on this site in a long time and i can't stop laughing.

'get some better music - nfgrawker'

aahahaha

Anonymous (October 20, 2003)

if any of you posers think anti-flag is one of the best bands ever, than go get some better taste in music.

-nfgrawker

Anonymous (October 20, 2003)

I'm looking forward to hearing all of the songs, so I can judge for myself, but from what I already have heard, I'm mildly impressed.

Anonymous (October 20, 2003)

saw these guys yesterday in philly...they kick ass...best song is ranknfile..also fuck the flag isnt bad but youre not missing anything too crucial if you get a copy that dosent have it. i think only the first 15000 do.

Anonymous (October 20, 2003)

I like Anti-Flag.

I just thought that needeed to be said more on this website.

Anonymous (October 20, 2003)

This band needs to grow up and start doing something about the problems in the world, rather than just bitch about them.

thriceequalsgod (October 20, 2003)

i got this at their cd release show in providence saturday... its definetely their most diverse release, because they're all over with this one. its a great cd, and their show is just stunning, really.... the 2 times ive seen them, i just come out with hate and disgust for GW...

aubin (October 20, 2003)

I don't really like any of Anti-Flag's older material, but this stuff is light years better. It seems like they've stopped trying to sound like 70s punks and realize that what was important about those bands was more about the substance of the music than the style. I think they took the thematic elements of London Calling without ripping off the sound, and did a pretty admirable job.

Anonymous (October 20, 2003)

Anti-Flag SUCKS

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