This is a nearly flawless record, but they could have taken off Obliteration

I love this album. Especially the "OWWW!!" during Slip It In.

Second best, behind My War.

They can be found on soulseek very easily, the "Nothing Left Inside/Scream" medley must be heard to be believed.

"where can i find the '82 demos?"

most file sharing programs

where can i find the '82 demos?

This is good shit. That is all.

Joe

I bet thecaptain thinks the Minutemen and Saccahrine Trust were "poor musicians" as well. lol

"he isn't on the radar."

um, if he isnt on the radar...then what do you have to say for most of the "good" punk bands you listed?

How can you be serious?

I think thecaptain is a troll... That's so ridiculous.

-Will

"Depends on your definition of a "few". In terms of influence, I'd say he's on a list of about 50-75 guitarists who expanded rock music through their work. I call that a few considering the thousands and thousands of guitarists over the history of rock music, so no, I don't find that ridiculous."

Look, we're not talking about influence here, we're talking about talent. And in terms of talent, he isn't on the radar.

I wasn't in the original wave of punk, so I can't say. It just seems that, from what I've read, most punk bands in America from '77 stopped playing that sort of music, while Black Flag continued. By 1980, I thought most of the "first wave" bands had either broken up or were going for a new sound.

-Will

Here's something for you Chinatown - Tony Sly from NUFAN has a black flag tattoo.

My recommendations (in order) for those who asked many posts ago would be:
1.) First 4 Years
2.) In My Head
3.) Damaged

Depends on your definition of a "few". In terms of influence, I'd say he's on a list of about 50-75 guitarists who expanded rock music through their work. I call that a few considering the thousands and thousands of guitarists over the history of rock music, so no, I don't find that ridiculous.

Look, I think Sonic Youth is close to unlistenable, but I accept that they're on that list of 50-75 too.

well....no not at all actually, I will openly admit that I think Greg Ginn blows Eddie Van Halen's conventional ass away. Not to mention EVERY one of the bands you mentioned (other than the Clash & the Ramones) have guitarists who are so conventional and boring they don't even seem to exist. I'm sorry man, but anyone who thinks NOFX has better guitar playing than Black Flag needs to go shoot themselves, now, because you know nothing about music.

I'm not saying he wasn't influential, I'm saying he isn't overly talented. Big difference. You mentioned Johnny Ramone....well, everybody knows he wasn't one of the most talented guitarists, yet he was very influential (to punk artists, anyway).

You have to admit, the comment that "few people in the HISTORY of rock music could match Greg Ginn" was ridiculous.

Regardless of whether you like his music or not, Greg Ginn's one of the most influential guitarists in punk. He's up there with Johnny Thunders and Johnny Ramone in terms of expanding the boundaries of guitar. Shit, the first time I heard Black Flag I wasn't sure it was even music- and that was after becoming a fan of The Ramones and the Sex Pistols.

I think the timeline of punk and the rise of hardcore punk below is off. It's an organic scene so some bands were getting weirder and harder and some were getting weirder and softer. Plenty of people in 1979 were "living a punk lifestyle" as Black Flag was getting off the ground, so I don't know what the heck you're all talking about.

I think my IQ just went down 10 points by even replying to this latter subject. Fuck.

captain,

i dont see why you see brandons comment so "laughable" seeing as ginn is a better guitarrist than pretty much all the guitarrists in the bands you mentioned being good punk rock....

First off, there are few guitarists in the HISTORY of music that can match Greg Ginn
^^^^
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Are you serious?
If you had said "in the history of punk," it wouldn't have been QUITE so laughable.........but it is........very, very much so.

By the way, sorry I like some of those dreaded "New Skool" bands......I know it makes me less than "mad PUNX RAWK."

I saw Rancid play once.....biggest bunch of garbage I've ever seen.

"My idea of good punk music: Op Ivy, The Ramones, Fugazi, The Clash, Avail, Rancid, Rise Against, The Bouncing Souls, The Vandals, Good Riddance, NOFX, Suicide Machines, Screeching Weasel."- First off, there are few guitarists in the HISTORY of music that can match Greg Ginn, secondly....Black Flag are one of the VERY FEW hardcore punk bands who could play extremely well live, thirdly- NOFX? Good Riddance? Rancid? Rise Against? Avail? The Bouncing Souls? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Like I said before, your opinion as of now means absolute shit. You just proved my point.

[i]It's understandable if you dont like the Flag, but calling them "shitty"? HAHA, your opinion now officially means jack shit. I'd like to hear what chinatown and thecaptain call "good music", that'll be worth a laugh.[/i]

They certainly didn't have musical talent, so I don't see why that's such a ludicrous thing to say.

My idea of good punk music: Op Ivy, The Ramones, Fugazi, The Clash, Avail, Rancid, Rise Against, The Bouncing Souls, The Vandals, Good Riddance, NOFX, Suicide Machines, Screeching Weasel.

OMG lIKE MinOR tHrEat Are SooO rAD. Will Creams HIS Pants to Such AN ovErrATEd band

Will's right, every book that I read usually has Greg Ginn, Jello, Rollins or MacKaye talking about how it should only be about the music. As a matter of fact, that's the reason Black Flag grew their hair long, to test whether many audiences were for real or fake (and we all know the unfortunate truth)

Uh... No, actually. Not at all. Minor Threat, Black Flag, and just about every American hardcore band were pretty much against playing dress-up. In fact, it looks as if the British fashioncore UK82 scene was looked down upon.

Your ignorance could supply energy to a small country.

-Will

"In many ways, hardcore bands were the first to lead punk lifestyles."

Thats when it became fashion to be a punk

I honestly don't think so. Their music and their stance was like a bouey for what would eventually become the "hardcore scene"... But when they toured early on, they didn't play with hardcore bands. Most hardcore bands formed after seeing them or hearing "Jealous Again" (I know they had an EP before that, but it's not the same sort of music). Besides hardcore, I don't really think punk survived. The earlier bands either went down a softer path, changed their sound, or simply melted down. While the mainstream embraced pop-rock and the "new romantic" sounds, hardcore created new ideals and ethics for how to survive outside of those trends.

Besides, "hardcore" stands for "hardcore punk." That's not because the music is faster. It's because the bands are supposed to embrace the ideas of punk rock and take them to heart. In many ways, hardcore bands were the first to lead punk lifestyles.

-Will

It's understandable if you dont like the Flag, but calling them "shitty"? HAHA, your opinion now officially means jack shit. I'd like to hear what chinatown and thecaptain call "good music", that'll be worth a laugh.

Just 3 bands? There are many others who would have survived the new-wave era.

Without Black Flag and maybe two other bands, I honestly don't think "punk" in America would have survived the new-wave era.

At least respect them.

-Will

Chinatown's right. Black Flag is indeed a shitty, shitty band. But NUFAN is also.

Man. Here I am always giving Chinatown shit for making the same comments about me every time, and then he throws me a curveball and makes a comment about Alexisonfire.

I'd have never seen it coming.

We get old reviews of older discs on Sundays. Cool.

black flag is a great band, but the later records are extremely subjective depending on the person. I, for instance, really like My War. I can't listen to it all the time, but it hits the spot when im in the mood.

In my head, I can't really do except once every ten years.

Slip it in and loose nut are beyond my powers as a mere mortal.

I have loosened up and let the rollins band stuff in my ears.

Later black flag is a band that is advancing too fast for their own good. It can be difficult listening but its inspiring to see that much going on in such a short span. I just don't know if an audience exists that can like all the later records at the same time. Which is not a bad thing, necessarily.

wyzo

Chinatown you're a fucking dumbass

oohhh...this is a tough one...whats worse, liking alexisisonfire?

or thinking black flag is a shity band?

HAHAHAHAHA. They are both equally bad.

i'm not a fan of either. however, i like some black flag songs, and alexisonfire just pisses me off, so i'll have to agree with jones.

Anchors, you like Alexisonfire, so shut the fuck up.

Shitty album by a shitty band, and song-by-song reviews blow.

-Chinatown

oohhh...this is a tough one...whats worse, liking alexisisonfire?

or thinking black flag is a shity band?

i'm gonna have to say calling black flag shitty is worse as long as the person who likes alexis also likes black flag

- jones the bones

- stevejones8770@yahoo.com

- feel free to discuss

Kansas is one of the poorer states.

I don't even live there.

-Will

Oh my God, I just agreed with Chinatown... here comes the apocolypse.

Oh yeah, the agreement is in reference to Anchors' douchebaggery, not in reference to his unenlightend opinions on Black Flag.

Anchors, you like Alexisonfire, so shut the fuck up.

-Chinatown

Chinatown, I think what he mean to say is that you're a shitty writer, have shitty taste in music, and come across as some stupid rich kid. Seriously, go back and read that incredibly lame NUFAN "review" you wrote and tell me if that doesn't make you want to kill yourself in shame.

If anyone didn't have reason to disregard Chinatown's opinions before, I'd say giving NUFAN 6 stars and Black Flag 1 seals the deal.

I have everything they ever did (about 2.5 gigs on my computer), most ripped from CD's/vinyl. I think Family Man is my favorite album, some spoken word rollins stuff, some awesome instrumental work. That album really makes me smile.

However, this is also good shit, just like everything else they did.

WEZ

dammit people, stop bringing up aws.

AWS?? AfrigginWS?? how the hell do you make a comparision between one of the greatest bands ever to AWS??

My "facts" wrong? Do tell me, which of my "facts" are wrong?

Score's for Black Flag.

-Chinatown

that Chinatown guy gets his facts wrong on every review he's written

and I know this might sound like sacrelige to alot of you and I'm gonna get flamed for it but (for the people that know their personalities) is it just me or are Greg Ginn and Trevor Riley from AWS extemely similar in certain aspects?

This score is for 'Black Coffee' alone. Everyone needs to hear this song once in their life, and the rest of the album's great too.

Finally, someone who appreciates Black Flag's slower, heavier records and doesn't go on about how they should have just made another 'Damaged'. Nice review.

The score is for the poorly-written, hilariously cloying NUFAN review chinatown posted somewhere awhile back. That kid never ceases to amuse me with his retardation. Is he actually autistic, or 14 years old, or some rich kid in the middle of Kansas like BSD, or some combination thereof? We may never know.

"Shitty album by a shitty band, and song-by-song reviews blow.
-Chinatown

You're right. No Use For A Name is sooo better than this legendary band."

Hahaha...

I've never actually listened to Black Flag, aside from here and there. But 5 stars anyway!

Shitty album by a shitty band, and song-by-song reviews blow.

-Chinatown

You're right. No Use For A Name is sooo better than this legendary band.

Sure... I could probably tape it for you sometime. It's lo, lo fi, but if you dig the Flag recording style, you'll probably like it.

Shoot me an email or somethin'. baseheadsuicide@gmail.com

-Will

BSD/Will/symbol: why dont you hook me up with that? id like to hear it.

"It seems like the stuff mid-way through loses some kick somewhere."

Maybe it's because it's the same songs played 3 times...

On a better note, I now have a 27 track Black Flag Chavo-era show from 1980, I think. It's "amazing", of course.

-Will

I think I'm gonna review "Who's Got The 10.;5" next...;.;no punk site is complete without a full Black Flag (and DK) catalog review. No doubt you already know what score I'm gonna give it, in my opinion the greatest live album of all time. But it'll be fun nonetheless.;

This thing sucks beyond belief.
Get a Coheed album!

best ones are damaged and first 4 years, the rest is very experimental but boring (except My War)

I like how on "My Ghetto" the guitar is played ultra fast but the drums are played purposly a bit too slow. GODDAMN!

"he should have written 10,000 words and pointed out all the growling that rollins does, huh chinatown"

folks, i don't think any of you will ever make me laugh as much as this comment just did.

i give up.

Just found an original "Six-Pack" 7", don't know if I'm gonna shell out the $6 for it though. I did, of course, just shell out $8 for the melvins 5" on Slap a Ham.

I gots no life.

-Ken

Did Chinatown actually call Black Flag a shitty band? Hold on let me clean my ears out because that fucking can't be. How does anyone consider them a shitty band? They were one of the most unique and progressive hardcore bands ever, let alone the early 80's. Maybe you don't like everything they did (lord knows I don't) but they certainly weren't shitty.
-Dante
P.S. Rollins appears in a few episodes of Teen Titans...Not sure if that's good or bad.

Shitty album by a shitty band, and song-by-song reviews blow.

-Chinatown

he should have written 10,000 words and pointed out all the growling that rollins does, huh chinatown

- jones the bones

- stevejones8770@yahoo.com

i'd also suggest damaged and first four years before you get into their "experimental" post-damaged period. jumping right into a record like slip it in could turn you off to the band.

score for the record, brandon and his choice of reviews.

I agree about Everything Went Black. It was the first Black Flag I bought (and first record, as well), but it's hard to listen to the whole thing in one sitting. Usually, I'll just put on one side and then move on. It seems like the stuff mid-way through loses some kick somewhere.

However, Damaged, of course, is perfect. The tracklist reads like a greatest hits album. To have that as your official debut LP is insane.

Shitty album by a shitty band, and song-by-song reviews blow.

-Chinatown

This isn't my favourite Black Flag record by far (my personal favourite's the classic Damaged), but it has it's moments but i really could do without Henry Rollins sex noises, on slip it in.

I don't understand people...;.;.;.;.;.;Everything Went Black is great, but it's the weakest Flag record in my opinion.

there is nothing to say about this besides the fact that it's musical bliss.

This is the best of "Black Flag: The Metal Years"- in fact, it's the second best Black Flag full-length period. Obviously (I hope), "Damaged" is number one. This is #2. The other post-"Damaged" records have some great tunes "My War" "Annihilate this Week" "Loose Nut" "Scream" "Can't Decide" "Drinking and Driving" but this seems to be the one fully thought out record they released in that year. This record really doesn't have a bad tune on it. Fucking rad!!!

Full lengths:
1. Damaged (duh)
2. Slip It In

This short list does NOT include the following 2 collections, which rank above "Slip It In" because, well, they're not The Metal Years: Everything Went Black, The First Four Years.

Someone's first Black Flag record should be "Damaged". After that, go back to the two collections or forward to "Slip It In" depending on one's musical tastes.

This is actually the only Flag album I own on vinyl. I tend to skip "Rat's Eyes" and zone out during "Obliteration" but the rest of the album is a pretty good listen, if not as good as "Loose Nut". If the other six songs on this album had all been recorded in the '82 demo fashion it would be a 10 for sure, the version of "Black Coffee" on that is a real scorcher.

Scott:

First Four Years and Damaged.

yeah he did, he played on every record except Damaged, First Four Years, and Whos Got The 10.5

didn't blil stevenson play on this record?

help me out on this one bsd

I think the only real black flag eras were with dukowski and without him

Lord, this band sucks. Truly garbage.

Coming from someone you won't listen to:

The First Four Years

It compiles a wide range of their stuff, and includes the earliest examples of why they are known as the hardest, yet least straight-forward punk band ever. The "Nervous Breakdown" EP is great '77-style punk, but by "Jealous Again", and with a new vocalist, you can tell they were starting to develop a more unique sound. "Revenge" is an uncontrollable fit of angst and hatred wrapped up in one minute, a true showcase of Ginn's guitar prowess. The Chavo era is great, too, if not pretty much identical to the early Rollins period.

-Will

oh yeah, it has gimmie gimmie gimmie too...another favorite of mine

- jones

i would say damaged...but i dont really know enough to recomend...but that album has six pack, rise above, tv party, and a few more classics...so yeah, if someone like brandon who is qualified recomends a different album, i recomend you get two and pick up damaged as well

- jones the bones

I'll admit it: I don't own any Black Flag albums. I know plenty of their songs (what are considered their "classics," anyway); I just don't physically own any of their music. So, if there was one album I should buy, what should it be?

-Scott

and to that person right above jones: chill out and readjust your sarcasm detector.

well, now you know how i felt every time someone brought up a wilhelm scream.

"is this the same band that tried to do that crappy rise against cover? count me out."

fuckin die....

is this the same band that tried to do that crappy rise against cover? count me out.

we are going to all have to deal with this joke for awhile, arent we?

oh well

- jones the bones

- stevejones8770@yahoo.com

That nun looks like Bobby Hill

I'm a fan of Kira as a bassist, and I love "Black Coffee." The album's a little too inconsistent for me; I prefer Loose Nut.

is this the same band that tried to do that crappy rise against cover? count me out.

Yeah, but by the time they recorded these versions of the songs, they were no longer as energetic and there's a very audible bitterness and resentment in the '84 records. They'd been fucked over and it damaged their career big time.

The 11 minute version of "Nothing Left Inside" rips, though.

-Will

I thought it was because of that whole lawsuit thing...after putting out the complations (Everything Went Black) and stuff, they rushed out a lot of new material due to the fact that they now legally could.

yeah, probably, i just reread brandon's my war review and that seems to be the case.

- jones

I thought it was because of that whole lawsuit thing...after putting out the complations (Everything Went Black) and stuff, they rushed out a lot of new material due to the fact that they now legally could.

oh, i see.

why didnt they just do a triple disc like the early november...that woulda been way cooler

- jones the bones

- stevejones8770@yahoo.com

"but wasnt my war in 1984"

They released and recorded 3 albums in '84.

-Will

By this time, I think 'Flag had a bit much of a pre-occupation with hair-tossing and cheese-metal. 'Slip It In' is brilliant, but when they try to slow things down, I don't think it works.

I still respect Ginn's guitar ingenuity, but when it comes to songwriting, this is some of their weakest stuff. This album and "My War" are peppered with classics, but the rest is just rather boring. "In My Head" is much better. Also, the '82 demo versions are great.

-Will

I've never heard this whole thing, but the demo version of "Slip It In", with guys doing the over-sexualized "slip it in!" part is crazy.

good review.

i've never really payed attention to when the black flag albums came out, seeing as by the time i was listening they were all released, but wasnt my war in 1984 too? which came first?

- jones

Great cover art.