Punknews.org
Propagandhi - Potemkin City Limits (Cover Artwork)

Propagandhi

Propagandhi: Potemkin City LimitsPotemkin City Limits (2005)
Fat Wreck Chords

Reviewer Rating: 4.5
User Rating:


Contributed by: AubinAubin
(others by this writer | submit your own)

The trajectory of Propagandhi over the past twelve years has been a sight to see. In each of their releases, the band has reinvented their sound effortlessly. From the Southern-California-meets-Winnipeg melodic skate-punk of How to Clean Everything to the speed-metal-infused power of Today's Empires.
iTunes StoreAmazon


The trajectory of Propagandhi over the past twelve years has been a sight to see. In each of their releases, the band has reinvented their sound effortlessly. From the Southern-California-meets-Winnipeg melodic skate-punk of How to Clean Everything to the speed-metal-infused power of Today's Empires, Tomorrow's Ashes, Propagandhi has never failed to provide remarkable leaps forward in an endless succession of nearly flawless releases.

Their first two albums were sarcastic, wry and saw the band using humour to tackle lofty subjects; but the departure of John Samson (and coincidentally a Bush presidency) took the band into even darker, angrier territory. With Potemkin City Limits, the band continues on this darker path, and has again managed to surpass even themselves to deliver one of the best albums of the year in this genre or any other.

One of the most immediately noticeable qualities of Potemkin City Limits is certainly its length; with previous albums barely reaching a half hour, a forty-plus minute Propagandhi album is quite remarkable, but the band finds plenty to do with the added space, with the songs taking their Venom-meets-Bad Religion to newly unearthed depths of dynamic and range. Even at four minutes, it's almost like the tracks can barely contain the sheer volume of ideas in them.

"A Speculative Fiction" explodes out of the gate, a track that could very easily see concert attendees destroying their venues. The relentless track posits a cold war between the U.S. and Canada, focusing both on the small ways -- the imperial measurement system, stupid, stupid Fox Hockey coverage -- and the big ones - American policies of domination, the war in Iraq, and civil liberties. The lyrical content, like the music, is uncompromising and relentless. Vocalist/guitarist Chris Hannah very ably shreds throughout the track which pummels with visceral power chords while stopping to allow single plucked strings to resonate.

The next track, "Fedallah's Hearse," tackles the Israeli occupation, and is one of many songs which criticizes the tendencies of strong nations to subvert weaker ones; even Canada is not immune from the attack, as the band examines the treatment of aboriginal Canadians in "Bringer of Greater Things" from the perspective of two people who were left out to die by those sworn to protect them and the unconscionably slim punishments received by those police officers. Bassist Todd Kowalski takes over vocal duties for this track as he does on the speedy hardcore of "Impending Halfhead" and a handful of others.

With each track, the power of the lyrics is not allowed to overshadow the music, which is both beautifully melancholy and devastatingly heavy. "Die Jugend Marchiert" slams military recruitment, showing the increasingly desperate U.S. military as calculated pseudo-patriots worthy of Leni Riefenstahl but couples it with an speedy metal-tinged punk accompaniment.

Of course, it'd be an error to make no mention of what will turn out to be the more controversial track on the album, at least within the "punk" scene: "Rock for Sustainable Capitalism," a track which takes plenty of time to attack the major label mohawks of Rancid, and even Fat Mike who released both this album and the Rock Against Bush series that drew the ire of Propagandhi early last year.

Though some will listen to the song and be more interested in the gossip of a band rebelling against a beloved label, the criticisms are quite reasonable, as the band sees the difference between idealism and pragmatism as the difference between compromise and collaboration. Still, it's worth mentioning that no matter where you stand on the Rock Against Bush issue, the band has valid concerns and hopefully this will provoke some discussion and not turn into a Internet-exaggerated fight between band and label. Complex issues aside, this is another track that is going to send people jumping off their beds.

"Name and Address Withheld," which surfaced on the Take Penacilin Now! compilation earlier this year, was an incredible song then, and remains so now. Taking a harsh look at dehumanizing American policies which place less value on the tens of thousands of dead Iraqi civilians then the two thousand dead soldiers and the tendency of people to view American lives as inherently valuable compared to the "worthless" lives of non-white peoples. It's a hard topic to raise, and the band does so directly without euphemism and without apology.

As many will point out, it has been almost five years since this band has released an album, but listening to Potemkin City Limits it becomes abundantly clear that the intervening years has not seen Propagandhi willing to end their pledge to "whine and kick & scream, until everyone has everything they need." and with this album, like each that proceeded it, they have shown that they are a band at the very forefront of music and message.

 

 
People who liked this also liked:
Propagandhi - Today's Empires, Tomorrow's AshesPropagandhi - Supporting CasteNOFX - The DeclineThe Lawrence Arms - Oh! Calcutta!The Lawrence Arms - The Greatest Story Ever ToldAgainst Me! - is Reinventing Axl RoseNOFX - Punk In DrublicRefused - The Shape of Punk to ComeDescendents - Milo Goes To CollegeOperation Ivy - Operation Ivy

Please login or register to post comments.What are the benefits of having a Punknews.org account?
  • Share your opinion by posting comments on the stories that interest you
  • Rate music and bands and help shape the weekly top ten
  • Let Punknews.org use your ratings to help you find bands and albums you might like
  • Customize features on the site to get the news the way you want.
Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not respon sible for them in any way. Seriously.
Andy_Chainsaw (January 28, 2011)

This album changed my life. It's probably the finest piece of punk rock I have ever heard (or progressive thrash or whatever). Thought provoking, inspiring, loving, great music.!

publichousing (March 27, 2010)

Probably my absolute favourite album ever. It's always in my stereo. As I got it when I was sorta young, it introduced me to many ideas and issues I was unaware of, through the flawless lyrics and the informative booklet notes. Havn't really found anything that has the same staying power as this one for me.

hhrules (December 18, 2008)

My only complaint with this album is the song Rock For Sustainable Capitalism, other than that a great album of political punk.

assassinsmatt (October 21, 2008)

Best band ever!
fuck every1 whos ears are filled
with emo screams
or out of key yelling
prop is the defintion of
"bad fucking ass"

im a fan 4 life!!!

mcflynnthm (June 25, 2008)

Goddamn yes. I love this album.

drbino (May 6, 2008)

Great review, undeniebly great album. This is REAL punk rock.

gorlocked (November 29, 2007)

I was somewhat disappointed by Today's Empires and so i didnt pick this up until a couple of weeks ago. ever since i can't stop listening. this album is fucking incredible. "I HOPE THEY SHIP THOSE SHITTY BANDS OVERSEAS, LIKE THEY DID THE FACTORIES". fuck you Vans Warped Tour!

lcfc (May 26, 2007)

There isnt any line-up changes between this album and the one prior, they use different names but are the same people, the new album hopefully out this year (2007) will consist of 1 extra member, the beaver, who will play guitar along side Chris Hannah, i saw them in Derby, England and was probably one of the best gigs ever, but i love them and will stick with that opinion, if you haven't heard much of these, Potemkin City Limits is my favorite album.

outinthered (March 26, 2007)

Can't say I agree with most of their views, but they fucking rock and to look at the line up changes, its amazing how this album got made, this rocks the shit

kmikhael (November 22, 2006)

they cancelled on sept. 11th and i drove an hour to see them.

knifetrader (November 8, 2006)

"I don't believe in self-important folks who preach..."

PLUS: I'm a sucker for choruses, so I can't understand the hype about this album. it definitely has some nice tunes, but - honestly - it is not that great...

iconoclast (May 24, 2006)

obviously no one is perfect. that being said, i can guarentee you that chris, todd, and jord do not consider themselves perfect. it seems everybody is so caught up on one song, that being "rock for sustainable capitalism", which i think, brings up some important points about the current state of punk rock, and music in general. to say that propagandhi is picking at the little things in life is to greatly overlook what is they are really trying to say. one last thing, anybody calling them elitist and arrogant who havnt met them should really shut the fuck up, because if you have met them, you would know they are the complete opposite, at least in my experiences. just cuz they have something to say, and are more critical than most bands, does not make them elitist and arrogant. damn, people assume a lot of shit.

Anonymous (May 16, 2006)

it has nothing to do with how anyone pronounces anything. It's more about how closed minded they are and how little understanding they seem to have about people and society in general.

I will be the first to admit that the subject of many of thier songs is admirable. But how are they going to change they way people think when they can't give anyone a chance to be imperfect.

Anonymous (May 9, 2006)

".. I find myself too pissed off at thier arrogance to truly appreciate the message."

look - they've got something to say, and invariably they say it damn well. Too many people get caught up on the "oooh, but i don't like the way he pronounces his words" matter and miss the entire point of the band. and frankly, i would prefer to have the "arrogance" in a band like propagandhi rather than the chick-pulling arrogance that so many other bands get away with.

Anonymous (April 27, 2006)

"I can understand a lot of Propaganhi's points, but to be quite honest, they are somewhat elitists. No one is perfect. But they continue to bash every little tidbit about "who's punk" and "who righteous" and so on.

I love this band, and I love a lot of what they stand for. But for all the shit they preach about intolerance, they sure can pick at the small shit in life."

I completely back this statement, it seems to me that more often than not Propagandhi are preaching to everyone about how much better they are at being "punk" (whatever that is these days) than other bands

While I generally love this band, everytime I read thier lyrics, (especially those in Potempkin City Limits) I fimd myself too pissed off at thier arrogance to truly appreciate the message. I'm just waiting for them to make a big slip up and do something even remotely hypocritical. (though I imagine no other bands will call them out on it.)

Anonymous (April 25, 2006)

always and forever the best band ever. and nerds.

Anonymous (April 11, 2006)

First of all do not put this album into a genre. It is not metal; metal is boring and played by old boring men or young posers. It is not punk; punk is dead and has been for at least 20 years. This album is simply magnificent. All the songs have amazing music and motivating lyrics, albeit some do take a few listens to get into. Those of you who have claimed this record lacks the emotion of T.E.T.A. need to have your ears syringed and your allowed dosage of what you are able to listen to and label punk rock and rebellious with the knowledge that you will still be 'cool', upped. By the way, the TM sign after "With a Rebel yell" in 'Rock for Sustainable Capitalism' is due to the fact that rebellion has sold out and the REBEL itself has been trademarked, not the phrase and it is not a trademark reference to Billy Idol. How fucking stupid can you get; no wonder anarchy stacks the shelves when people like you claim such a subtle wit is only an attack on a superstar. I bet you shit yourselves when you found out there was a line against Fat Mike in this record.

Anonymous (April 2, 2006)

i was sort of bummed out about this record. i loved the direction todays empires was headed, but this has slowed down. still, there are some fucking awesome songs here. name and adress withheld, superbowl patriot blabla, the firstsong, die jugen marschiert.. just didnt like the slower stuff. still, crucial band when it comes to smart political songwriting and being canadian i guess!
CHRISTIAN
www.myspace.com/deathisnotglamorous

Anonymous (March 21, 2006)

This is the best punk rock album EVER recorded. Potemkin is the smartest album by any band I've ever heard, and one of the most rocking albums EVER (a mind numbing paradox). This band was one of those that changed my life back when I listened to the "Id Rather Be Flag Burning" EP on Recess Records, and continue to impress me as well as keep me pissed for all of the real reasons us punk rockers should be pissed.

So for those that don't like this record or this band, go listen to your fake ass street-punk bands, your shitty emo-metalcore trash, or your typical melodic skate-punk dime a dozen shit. When you get older and forget about punk rock, these guys will still be there, sticking to their guns and holding down the fort.

Anonymous (February 6, 2006)

fuckin amazing cd im going to say i do prefer how to clean everything it was jsut awesome how sarcastic that album was but songs like Halle Selasse Up Your Ass and Stick the Fucking Flag Up Your Goddamn Ass You Son Of A Bitch really get you pissed off. But this cd's songs like Rock For Sustainable Capitalism which is fuckin awesome cause it shows how hypocritical alot of bands are especially being soo dead set against corporations yet making shitloads of money off Warped Tour, and Superbowl Patriot XXXVI which is so fuckin funny cause of the bullshit superbowl stuff. A bunch of patriot drunken asswipes watching a game sponsored by the corporate gods. Also Bringer Of Greater Things which opens alot of eyes because alot of people in Canada dont see their police force is as racist and brutal as the any other police force. The fact that they can do that to the natives is jsut wrong and unjust. But hey we have been doing it ever since this country has been formed. Strong CD with a Strong Message like usual.

Love Jesus (wait jesus is dead?) haha

Anonymous (January 20, 2006)

Fuck, I hate Lars Fredrickssena;lsjdf;lasdf.

readmag (January 15, 2006)

Oh-so-important and oh-so-boring.

Anonymous (December 8, 2005)

whats with winnipeg putting out shitty bands. comeback kid, propagandi, the weakerthans, that city can eat shit.

Anonymous (December 7, 2005)

Good comprehensive reveiw. May just bookmark you guys.

Anonymous (December 1, 2005)

Potmekin City Limits has quickly become one of my favorite thrash albums eeeeeever. Seriously. Right up there with Nothingface, Among the Living and Reign in Blood.

This is their best record to date. The riffs are cleaner, which increases the power tenfold. And this is some of the most scathing prose I have ever had the pleasure to read.

Fuckin' ay.

Anonymous (December 1, 2005)

you're all fucking nuts.

just log off right now and get to your local independent music store and pick this shit up quickly because its going.. well.. nowhere really. get it on G7.. they deserve it.. fuck the Fat version like dumbasses like me bought

http://www.g7welcomingcommittee.com/discography/g7043.php

oh and buy the rest of their catalogue on the entire site.

Fuck FatWreck.

Godfather (November 30, 2005)

Top 3 albums of 2005:

1. Lagwagon - Resolve
2. Propagandhi - Potemkin City Limits
3. Lawrence Arms - Cocktails and Dreams

Anonymous (November 29, 2005)

Emo punks , big bussiness/corporation punks, conservative punk

please listen to this album

you got a lotttt (x 10000 ) to learn

Anonymous (November 28, 2005)

love this album

Anonymous (November 11, 2005)

this album is fuckin dope. yeah im an american bro so feel free to bombard me with your well structured sentences of critisism. FUCK Non Americans bashing us when they see an opening.FUCK Americans who give them the right to do so. we live here, we deal with the ignorance. you guys have nothing to bitch about. all the angels in all of your countries dont have to walk out the door to such bullshit everyday like we do. so if anything, we understand the lyrics more. Prop owns

Poison_Operation (November 5, 2005)

I haven't been into Propagandhi for a long time, but after hearing the song "Nation States," I decided to check 'em out. And I must say, I'm considering buying everything from their back catalog. I bought this album a few days ago, and although it did take a couple days of heavy rotation in the CD player for it to grow on me, I'm liking this album more and more every time I pop it in. In fact, I think I'm gonna go press the "PLAY" button on my CD player right now.

On a side note, I bought this CD at FYE (it's either that or go to the fuckin' Wal-Mart down the street). Now, I don't know a whole lot about this band, as I haven't been into 'em for that long, but it's pretty easy to tell that they're against major corporation-type shit. So I thought it was kind of weird to find something from Propagandhi at a place like FYE.

CD gets an 8.5, but I'll give 'em the benefit of the doubt (wow, that is definitely not the phrase I'm trying to think of, but I can't think of what I'm trying to say, so fuck it) and round that up to a 9.

--Steve--

Anonymous (November 3, 2005)

"And while you may stand six full cubits and a span we got a shepherd's sling and five stones in our hand and the battle of 1812 lives in our hearts."

Even though I instantly liked it I think It's a grower for some people.. 5 stars.

yayforapathy (October 29, 2005)

Most important album of the past 5 years. They are the only band around that has the balls to say what they do. "Rock for Sustanible Capitalism" is the most important song since the uprising emo- bullshit bands that make money off of punk, when it stands for just the opposite. The album gets better and better with each listen, and it is by no means musically weak. I can't wait to finnaly see this band live(that is if they come to Norfolk/VA Beach/ Richmond).

Anonymous (October 28, 2005)

Awesome album. It took me a little while to get into, with the slower songs mostly, but it was well worth it. My only issue with the album is that I think they should have put "Superbowl Patriot XXXVII" after "Iteration," since there's really no better way to end an album than "We're doomed! Fuckin' Doomed!"

Anonymous (October 28, 2005)

"Don't EVER leave the one you love for the one you like, because the one you like will leave you for the one they love. Tonight, your true love will realize how much they love you between 1 and 4 in the morning. Tomorrow, the shock of your life will occur. If you break the chain, you will have bad luck..

If you REALLY LIKE (or LOVE) SOMEONE right now AND MISS THEM and can't get them out of your head then re-post this within 1 mintute and whoever you are missing will surprise you"

Anonymous (October 27, 2005)

this album is the best album since their last one!!!

they are the only band that is creative enough to develop in new directions.

they are the only band that has anything interesting to say.

they are the only band that can combine triplets, slow downs, 20 note riffs, hardcore, instrumentals, wicked solos, metal, punk, humor, insult and anger.

todd's balads are anthems for my rage against imperialism, capitalism and American Empire. fuck ya.

the band always reinvents itself as something better. i've been waiting for THIS album for ten years. i knew they would eventually put out an album that amalgamates their interests in metal, hardcore, punk and politics.

only the 'fucking goofs' wouldn't get this.

Anonymous (October 26, 2005)

The first time I listened to this album, I felt a little disappointed. Musically, it just wasn't as thrashing and awesome as Today's Empires...

But after reading the lyrics thoroughly and listening to it again, I've decided that I was wrong. Sure, they've tempered a lot of the hardcore influence, but they're still as angry as ever.

I think it's sad that a lot of the messages they're trying to convey to their listeners have been buried underneath drama between the band and Fat Mike.

And lastly, those who want punk rock should listen to Todd's old band Swallowing Shit. Though... I doubt many of you could take it, both lyrically and musically.

Anonymous (October 26, 2005)

"Everyone of you americans can't see how right the lyrics are"

"Everyone of you non-Americans like to put every American in a box. Everyone of you should stop that."

hahaha. classic.

Anonymous (October 25, 2005)

This album is sick. Album of the year

Anonymous (October 25, 2005)

This album is musicaly weak, lyricly strong. I get it already. I read books, surf the net, dig deep for the facts. I know the struggle and the corruption. You taught me that with your first two albums. Thank you for that. However, make me want to listen to your music again. Not just read the lyrics. Used to be the best band going, now just a musicaly poor lecture band. I still have hope, but its fading fast.

Anonymous (October 25, 2005)

"Don't EVER leave the one you love for the one you like, because the one you like will leave you for the one they love. Tonight, your true love will realize how much they love you between 1 and 4 in the morning. Tomorrow, the shock of your life will occur. If you break the chain, you will have bad luck..

If you REALLY LIKE (or LOVE) SOMEONE right now AND MISS THEM and can't get them out of your head then re-post this within 1 mintute and whoever you are missing will surprise you"

Meh, couldnt hurt...

Anonymous (October 25, 2005)

I thought it was a reference to Rancid's video for "Fall Back Down."

Anonymous (October 25, 2005)

so i finally got to listen to this fuckin thing....not sure if it is as good as today's empire's....but the lyrical aspects definitely meet all expectations......anyone catch the reference to Ender's game?.....thats a pretty sick book............i have one beef with the superbowl song......say what you want about advertising and all that bullshit......but who doesn't like beer?......what did beer do to anyone?......i'm gonna go get a beer

Anonymous (October 24, 2005)

I'm pretty sure Rock for Sustainable Capitalism refers to the video for "Gansters and Thugs" by the Transplants. That's the first thing that came to mind when I read the lyrics. Anyone seen it and agree?

In any case, I think it's a pretty good album... lyrically amazing, musically not quite as impressive as TE,TA at the moment... but we'll see how I feel about it in a few weeks.

BTown (October 23, 2005)

indeed, cheers.

but will somebody tab these up already?!

off_the_fucken_map (October 23, 2005)

"There is so much more going on idea-wise on this record than the ONE LINE about Fat Mike. "

very good point. people get caught up on the little shit and then throw the whole thing out.

Anonymous (October 23, 2005)

There is so much more going on idea-wise on this record than the ONE LINE about Fat Mike.

Seriously, don't throw this baby out with the bathwater, people. You'll just be missing out on the point of the record, which is currently fucking with my mind.

the_wang (October 23, 2005)

this album makes me want to kick americans

Anonymous (October 23, 2005)

Don't EVER leave the one you love for the one you like, because the one you like will leave you for the one they love. Tonight, your true love will realize how much they love you between 1 and 4 in the morning. Tomorrow, the shock of your life will occur. If you break the chain, you will have bad luck..

If you REALLY LIKE (or LOVE) SOMEONE right now AND MISS THEM and can't get them out of your head then re-post this within 1 mintute and whoever you are missing will surprise you

Anonymous (October 23, 2005)

This album is simply incredible.

Anonymous (October 22, 2005)

i concure dog...4 1/2 floppy cocks out of 5

off_the_fucken_map (October 22, 2005)

word.

elliot (October 22, 2005)

i knew there was gonna be a million comments on this thing, with people arguing about all things propagandhi.

here's all you need to know: potemkin city limits fucking destroys any punk rock album that's come out this year. every song is amazing. the lyrics make just about every other band out there look retarded. the music is so well-written, i would die to be able to come up with it.

end of discussion.

Anonymous (October 22, 2005)

off_the_fucken_map.... you're welcome.

just give credit where credit is due... ie luke blowing up the deathstar and me telling you about billy idol and hilary duff being the savior of rock and roll.

off_the_fucken_map (October 22, 2005)

no need to get hostile.

off_the_fucken_map (October 22, 2005)

yes you did, your right. im sorry. i do appreciate it. wikipedia just confirmed it.
:)

Anonymous (October 22, 2005)

"So...my sarcastic tongue in cheek joke that went over your head means I should kill myself? (or maybe it went under your head because it was not particuarly clever)

It looks more to me like you just wanted to rant and jumped on the first thing you saw. Your own voice isnt that impressive. Calm down.

I recomend that you try arguing with people who arent being sarcastic next time. That usually makes the point your trying to make a bit more valid and valid points are usually a pretty healthy sign of a "educated american".

Good to see that our tax dollars werent wasted on you."

Once again sarcasm is lost because of lack of tone....oh well fuck it....besides....we all know that God loves America the most out of every country....George W. Bush taught me that.

Anonymous (October 22, 2005)

this album is magnificent.

Anonymous (October 22, 2005)

Wait a minute, aren't you just doing the same exact fucking thing by saying this AND releasing your album on Fat? Idiot.

Anonymous (October 22, 2005)

Wikipedia didn't answer your questionm, asshole.

I did.

GreenVandal (October 22, 2005)

""Americans are pricks and wont take your opinion seriously until you learn how to speak english better then a 6th grader. Nice try though"

Most ignorant thing I've heard yet...kill yourself...missed my point.

I do know that a large majority of Americans are ignorant...I live in America and have to deal with it every day...but what I won't do is buy into every anti-american sentiment that exists out there. I respect the opinions of people outside of the US because they have a unique perspective on the politicies and actions of the my country...and that is a fantastic thing. However, educated individuals that happen to be living within US borders (yes, we do exist) deserve that same respect. So do not use the opportunity to voice your opinion by contributing such stupid comments because it just makes you look bad. I love propagandhi... they are one of my favorite bands, but that doesn't mean that I have to agree with everything they say (although I do agree with alot of it)...I was just more interested hearing about the musical aspects of the album than about the gossip about fat mike and rancid....."less talk, more rock".....

So with that said....lets just all try to get to a show and support a band that isn't afraid put it all on the table"

So...my sarcastic tongue in cheek joke that went over your head means I should kill myself? (or maybe it went under your head because it was not particuarly clever)

It looks more to me like you just wanted to rant and jumped on the first thing you saw. Your own voice isnt that impressive. Calm down.

I recomend that you try arguing with people who arent being sarcastic next time. That usually makes the point your trying to make a bit more valid and valid points are usually a pretty healthy sign of a "educated american".

Good to see that our tax dollars werent wasted on you.

Anonymous (October 22, 2005)

"Americans are pricks and wont take your opinion seriously until you learn how to speak english better then a 6th grader. Nice try though"

Most ignorant thing I've heard yet...kill yourself...missed my point.

I do know that a large majority of Americans are ignorant...I live in America and have to deal with it every day...but what I won't do is buy into every anti-american sentiment that exists out there. I respect the opinions of people outside of the US because they have a unique perspective on the politicies and actions of the my country...and that is a fantastic thing. However, educated individuals that happen to be living within US borders (yes, we do exist) deserve that same respect. So do not use the opportunity to voice your opinion by contributing such stupid comments because it just makes you look bad. I love propagandhi... they are one of my favorite bands, but that doesn't mean that I have to agree with everything they say (although I do agree with alot of it)...I was just more interested hearing about the musical aspects of the album than about the gossip about fat mike and rancid....."less talk, more rock".....

So with that said....lets just all try to get to a show and support a band that isn't afraid put it all on the table

Anonymous (October 22, 2005)

This album is fucking great, but I think Less Talk More Rock is still my favorite by them, this one is just angrier and more political

Anonymous (October 22, 2005)

"it just seems like they didn't put much effort into making the music catchier"

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

buried in the comments, theres always the suffocated mental capacity of an apathetic music fan waiting to be exhumed.

My solution to listening to this album and liking it: Play it louder.

that is all. Catchier, you guys are hilarious......

wyzo

Anonymous (October 22, 2005)

This record will be remembered as one of the best punk records of all time...

Anonymous (October 21, 2005)

yes, prop fucking owns.

Anonymous (October 21, 2005)

Prop owns

Anonymous (October 21, 2005)

"Sarcasm just can't be read on the internet..."

It was a sarcastic reply to a sarcastic post (Well at least the second half of that was). Honestly, I'm not THAT conceited. Sometimes sarcasm is tough to detect on the...oh wait..

Anonymous (October 21, 2005)

Don't EVER leave the one you love for the one you like, because the one you like will leave you for the one they love. Tonight, your true love will realize how much they love you between 1 and 4 in the morning. Tomorrow, the shock of your life will occur. If you break the chain, you will have bad luck..

If you REALLY LIKE (or LOVE) SOMEONE right now AND MISS THEM and can't get them out of your head then re-post this within 1 mintute and whoever you are missing will surprise you

off_the_fucken_map (October 21, 2005)

does anyone here think that the first part of "life at disconnect" is written from the perspective of nature and then the second half is the perspective of humans? sound plausible?
discuss.

off_the_fucken_map (October 21, 2005)

i realize those phrases arent actually trademarked and that it is a joke and that they were alluding to something. i just wasnt sure what "rebel yell" referred to. but now i know. wikipedia answered my quesion.

GreenVandal (October 21, 2005)

Dear Dad,

Americans are pricks and wont take your opinion seriously until you learn how to speak english better then a 6th grader. Nice try though.

Regards,

Grandpa

youwinalemon (October 21, 2005)

Yeah, I think I'm gonna need to be getting this.

Yeee-up.

Anonymous (October 21, 2005)

And I believe the trademark sign is there after "with a rebel yell" because of Billy Idol.

That's not to say that it is actually trademarked, but a joke/reference that they put in because of the phrasing. The pseudo-trademark acknowledges their allusion.

Anonymous (October 21, 2005)

Hello everybody. I'm european and i want to say that not all america is full of ignorant people but you are plenty of them.

i've in your country several times and i think that your imperialism system will explode in front of your face if you keep living in oblivious.

i'm sorry,i feel pity,you must try to read more, educate your children better and firstly change your govement. and if it would be possible chage the whole system.

i know that this web intend to speak about music but i think
that my comment is apropriate with this record thematic.

i'm not trying to insult american society i'm only saying that you have too much to learn from other societies.

take a look around the world
with my best wishes: Dad

BTown (October 21, 2005)

And to the guy who suggested that kicking him out of the band might make them better: You are wrong. Plain and simple. No "it's just an opinion" bullshit. Guess what? Everyone is not entitled to thier opinion, everyone is entitled to MY opinion.

Sarcasm just can't be read on the internet...

peilocal (October 21, 2005)

I'm willing to bet that the TM symbol after rebel yell, and America's Army, are both there for the same reason. It's a fucking joke! I don't think it's actually trade marked, but I think they are pointing out the absurdity of trade marking a phrase.

Anyone read the latest Fat newsletter? Fat Mike points out that he is mentioned in the new prop record. See how both Fat Mike, and Propagandhi have senses of humour? And Fat Mike can even take criticism *gasp*!

This record has been growing on me more and more each day, although for the life of me, I can't get into "cut into the earth." But everything else on this album is excellent.

Anonymous (October 21, 2005)

And no, I didn't make a typo. I have changed the spelling of the word. It's called "being creative" you fuck.
And yes, I am this much of an asshole in real life too, in case you were wondering

GreenVandal (October 21, 2005)

"Metallica < Motorhead .... and it's not even close. Whatever. The Olsens are a bunch of no-talent silly nillys who just churn out manufactured blather. They aren't going to tour with Propagandhi. They'll be playing with The Chemistry, IF they're lucky.

Hilary doesn't have script writers for that. Don't be so cynical. And while he did move to set up the military wing of the African National Congress in the early 1960s and plan to overthrow the government by violence, I don't think it's really accurate to call Mandela a "terrorist." There weren't civilian targets or campaigns or violence. And it took the western world a mighty mighty long tome to come around and support him.

"The fact that you digress to demeaning prurient slander shows an inherently cruel and insecure patriarchal nature that Propagandhi would shake their heads at."

While the line does remind us of that great South Park episode, it wasn't meant to be caddy. You're saying "oh, he's on a propagandhi review so I'd imagine he's into them." And I'm saying that this asshole should listen to some of the lyrics on "Less Talk, More Rock" (Tracks 3 and 14) and revisit the liner notes. He sounds like a tough guy who likes to "rock out." Why does he feel it necessary to make incredibly violent and sexual comments when attacking Hilary Duff? Maybe he should consider the way he thinks about himself and women and where he finds power and legitimacy? what a fucking dickbag.

And I believe the trademark sign is there after "with a rebel yell" because of Billy Idol."

I love you for all the wrong reasons.

Anonymous (October 21, 2005)

To the guy commenting on Jord's lack of ability:
You're muscially retarded, or at least know fuck-all about the drums.

And to the guy who suggested that kicking him out of the band might make them better: You are wrong. Plain and simple. No "it's just an opinion" bullshit. Guess what? Everyone is not entitled to thier opinion, everyone is entitled to MY opinion.

Okay, maybe I'm going a bit overboard here.

Anonymous (October 21, 2005)

to be honest, i have not heard this album yet....i came on here to see some reviews because a friend of mine who i completely trust in music taste said that it was a good album, but he was a little dissappointed. Anyway, some of the things that i'm seeing from all of you really piss me off. All this stuff is ridiculous...the whold fat mike thing....they are business partners...and say what you want about fat mike....he is good for music and probably respects whatever propagandhi decides to say...in the end, they're both making money...both have their opinions and I personally take both with a grain of salt because their are things i agree with and disagree with in both of their politics....europeans need to stop saying that all americans are ignorant...cause there are a shit load of ignorant people all over the world (europe included). global diplomacy is a complicated thing so generally no opinion is completely right, its a subjective thing. so can we try to focus on the quality of the album and not about this other crap...i dont believe in everything propagandhi does....and that just means that I have my own opinion...so shut up and focus on the music

Anonymous (October 21, 2005)

Perhaps?

stayontarget (October 21, 2005)

Am I the only one who first glanced at the album title when it was announced and imagined it said "Pokemon City Limits?"

Anonymous (October 21, 2005)

Metallica < Motorhead .... and it's not even close. Whatever. The Olsens are a bunch of no-talent silly nillys who just churn out manufactured blather. They aren't going to tour with Propagandhi. They'll be playing with The Chemistry, IF they're lucky.

Hilary doesn't have script writers for that. Don't be so cynical. And while he did move to set up the military wing of the African National Congress in the early 1960s and plan to overthrow the government by violence, I don't think it's really accurate to call Mandela a "terrorist." There weren't civilian targets or campaigns or violence. And it took the western world a mighty mighty long tome to come around and support him.

"The fact that you digress to demeaning prurient slander shows an inherently cruel and insecure patriarchal nature that Propagandhi would shake their heads at."

While the line does remind us of that great South Park episode, it wasn't meant to be caddy. You're saying "oh, he's on a propagandhi review so I'd imagine he's into them." And I'm saying that this asshole should listen to some of the lyrics on "Less Talk, More Rock" (Tracks 3 and 14) and revisit the liner notes. He sounds like a tough guy who likes to "rock out." Why does he feel it necessary to make incredibly violent and sexual comments when attacking Hilary Duff? Maybe he should consider the way he thinks about himself and women and where he finds power and legitimacy? what a fucking dickbag.

And I believe the trademark sign is there after "with a rebel yell" because of Billy Idol.

off_the_fucken_map (October 20, 2005)

why after the line "with a rebel" in rock for sustainable capitalism is there a trademark symble? call me dumb but i just dont get it yet.

BTown (October 20, 2005)

So which Rancid video is he talking about when he says I fuckin' love that one rock video where that fucking jack-ass mohawked millionaire prances around by far the worst sausage party on earth, where by mere chance he's caught on film shaking hands with an incredibly diverse collection of patriotic skins. I like the message it sends: With a Rebel yell, Just Do Exactly What You're Told.?

BTown (October 20, 2005)

"I'm so glad Chris left. Glen kicks his ass. Glen's a better vocalist and guitarist."

Glen Lambert is Chris Hannah...
I think it's a little creepy that he would create an alter-ego...

You're kinda slow... that's ok.
He's been making up names for years. But seriously, who hasn't had multiple alias for themselves? I know I have.
With Love, George W. Bush

Anonymous (October 20, 2005)

To expand upon my comments about the music, I mean that to include Chris's new singing style...just didn't do it for me...

GreenVandal (October 20, 2005)

Dont talk shit about hockey.

The devils are kinda sucking it up so far though...

Anonymous (October 20, 2005)

I've got to say I have loved Propagandhi for years, since just after How to Clean Everything came out. I love most of their songs and all of what they stand for. That said, this album was the first time I was disappointed, but only with the music. The lyrics are amazing, and they still have the right idea but I found the music to be kind of boring and monotonous. I wasn't hoping for the same style repeated again, but I was hoping for something I could really get into musically. I can understand writing the lyrics (which they clearly hold in higher regard than the music) and then the music to accompany it but it just seems like they didn't put much effort into making the music catchier and more interesting. Oh well, maybe in 2010. Still looking forward to seeing them live though...

off_the_fucken_map (October 20, 2005)

the music on potemkin is so fucking incredible. its some of the most well written music i've ever heard. its so unique, ive never heard anything like it. they took the TETA sound to the next level. this band knows how to fucking trash.

Anonymous (October 20, 2005)

chris has never had his name in any album just say chris. in less talk it was pete, and how to clean it was, well that was the closest he ever got, it was jesus h. chris. he's just fucking around. you guys take stuff to seriously. deep down you all know he's a fucking badass.

Anonymous (October 20, 2005)

You guys take yourselves too seriously. Face it: Hockey sucks, Hillary Duff rocks (though not as much as Propaghandi), and whining about stuff won't get you anywhere. Go ahead and bitch from your keyboards...

On another note, I saw Journey like two weeks ago and those guys still rock after 30 years!

Anonymous (October 20, 2005)

This CD is absolutely amazing and exactly what the punk scene needed so bad for a long time!

Anonymous (October 20, 2005)

Excellent graphics......I will now become a vegan. Thank you-Melissa (Tampa,FL)

Anonymous (October 20, 2005)

"I'm so glad Chris left. Glen kicks his ass. Glen's a better vocalist and guitarist."

Glen Lambert is Chris Hannah...
I think it's a little creepy that he would create an alter-ego...

localh (October 20, 2005)

she's lump she's lump

Anonymous (October 20, 2005)

////Hilary Duff, on the other hand, in a recent interview in which the interviewer asked her what it was like to be a role model for youth, threw out the question and said that a real role model is someone who has significantly had a direct impact on creating positive change in people's lives through political means, citing Nelson Mandela, whose autobiography she read before presenting him with a humanitarian award at the UN building in New York.////

she'll have script writers for stuff like that. cynical i may be but she will have been briefed. don't forget Mendela was a terrorist but what one persons terrorist is anothers freedom fighter. depends which side you are on. the western world supported mandela so in their eyes is a freedom fighter. on the same token, many Basque people view ETA as freedom fighters while the majority in spain view them as terrorists.

just wanted to get that in b4 someone claims that mandela wasn't a terrorist

GreenVandal (October 20, 2005)

"Propagandhi - Potemkin City Limits
Posted by Anonymous on 2005-10-20 19:40:15

I didn't post the same message twice. Someone apparently wanted to reiterate my point.

"I can all but guarantee that I've been listening to Propagandhi longer than you have"

While the "I saw them first" bit is, generally, a pretty lame, nitpicky, and insubstantialargument, I felt it was appropriate in this case because you had urged me to "go back to listnening to N'SYNC" and I was trying to convey that I never listened to such drivel, that I've been listening to punk, hardcore, metal, and thrash for 10 years now, and that I consider Duff to be superior to most of what you probably listen to.

The fact that you digress to demeaning prurient slander shows an inherently cruel and insecure patriarchal nature that Propagandhi would shake their heads at.
Propagandhi - Potemkin City Limits
Posted by Anonymous on 2005-10-20 19:15:53

Kofi Annan isn't punk. He intervened with Dallaire's infamous "genocide fax," cowardly citing Chapter 7 intervention protocol, blocking the Lt. General's move to intercept the arms caches, and, in turn, helped allow the Rwandan genocide to ignite.

Hilary Duff, on the other hand, in a recent interview in which the interviewer asked her what it was like to be a role model for youth, threw out the question and said that a real role model is someone who has significantly had a direct impact on creating positive change in people's lives through political means, citing Nelson Mandela, whose autobiography she read before presenting him with a humanitarian award at the UN building in New York.

That and she was wearing a Motorhead t-shirt.

She's a little less removed from Propagandhi than you might think."

You are mindboggling sir.

"Why not take a crazy chance? Why not do a crazy dance?"

This is either the funniest joke I shouldnt be getting or the funniest joke that should be made. Keep it comin!

Once I saw Ashley (or was it Mary-Kate?) Olsen wearing a Mettallica t-shirt. I guess she should get disney to write her an album and tour with propagandhi to.

Anonymous (October 20, 2005)

"The fact that you digress to demeaning prurient slander shows an inherently cruel and insecure patriarchal nature that Propagandhi would shake their heads at."

great line. its conjuring images up of the south park episode where cartman is being bullied by someone who is a huge radiohead fan. cartman gets his revenge by getting radiohead over who call the bully lameass and the bully is distraught as his heroes hate him. that comment has just conjured up images of propagandhi coming over and ruining your life. dunno why it just did.

dude, he's on a propagandhi review so i'd imagine he's into them. i for one don't read mxpx reviews etc so i think its safe to say he may like propagandhi like you

Anonymous (October 20, 2005)

don't deny it man. this is the savior of rock&roll-and don't you forget that!

BTown (October 20, 2005)

I'm so glad Chris left. Glen kicks his ass. Glen's a better vocalist and guitarist. It's quite obvious. They just keep getting better. As much as I like the Weakerthans, Todd was a better fit for Propagandhi. They should kick out Jord next so they will get better again. If that is at all possible.
Though, I was surprised to not find as much 'propaganda' as was found on the extras on the TETA cd.

Anonymous (October 20, 2005)

I didn't post the same message twice. Someone apparently wanted to reiterate my point.

"I can all but guarantee that I've been listening to Propagandhi longer than you have"

While the "I saw them first" bit is, generally, a pretty lame, nitpicky, and insubstantialargument, I felt it was appropriate in this case because you had urged me to "go back to listnening to N'SYNC" and I was trying to convey that I never listened to such drivel, that I've been listening to punk, hardcore, metal, and thrash for 10 years now, and that I consider Duff to be superior to most of what you probably listen to.

The fact that you digress to demeaning prurient slander shows an inherently cruel and insecure patriarchal nature that Propagandhi would shake their heads at.

Anonymous (October 20, 2005)

Kofi Annan isn't punk. He intervened with Dallaire's infamous "genocide fax," cowardly citing Chapter 7 intervention protocol, blocking the Lt. General's move to intercept the arms caches, and, in turn, helped allow the Rwandan genocide to ignite.

Hilary Duff, on the other hand, in a recent interview in which the interviewer asked her what it was like to be a role model for youth, threw out the question and said that a real role model is someone who has significantly had a direct impact on creating positive change in people's lives through political means, citing Nelson Mandela, whose autobiography she read before presenting him with a humanitarian award at the UN building in New York.

That and she was wearing a Motorhead t-shirt.

She's a little less removed from Propagandhi than you might think.

Anonymous (October 20, 2005)

zombie apocalypse

Anonymous (October 20, 2005)

It's so funny. When Empire's came out, everybody complained it was their weakest record. Then a year later, they all decided it was their best record. I predict a similar event on the horizon.

Furthermore, I dont understand why people want to hear bands repeat the same record year after year. More importantly, I don't know why bands indulge them on that count.

This is certainly NOT a record for people who want their music simply served up to them on a familiar platter.

No other punk band out there is writing songs with the scope of Fixed Frequencies or Speculative Fiction or Iteration. Seriously, there is a yawning chasm between this band and typical punk. That's why people are so divided on this new one.

bjr (October 20, 2005)

I only heard the single, which was really impressive. I'm not sure if this is the best propagandhi record to start with....if not what is?

Pope_Skeletor (October 20, 2005)

"Or is it that you are a 22 year old virgin who wants to lose his cherry to her instead of 5 knuckle shuffling over her poster in bed hoping that mummy (who'd you'd like to pipe as well) won't catch you?"

people, i'm all for the hate, but this is just a clunky insult. lets work on this.

Anonymous (October 20, 2005)

I'd like to see Hillary Duff help Propagandhi bake their bread.

Anonymous (October 20, 2005)

Here's my top 10 most punk people in the world.....

10. Jennifer Lopez
9. Clay Aiken
8. Dan Patrick
7. AJ Pierzynski
6. F.P. Santangelo
5. Prince
4. Kofi Annan
3. Tom DeLonge
2. The seven dwarves
1. Hillary Duff

kid_dynamite_ (October 20, 2005)

I gotta agree with those that say its not their best. I've listened to it about 5 times through and all the songs have the same composition. All the lyrics are all over the place and seem to be like part of a speech as oppose to actual song lyrics. It still rocks, but its like How To Clean Everything and Less Talk were made by a different band.

GreenVandal (October 20, 2005)

Wait...someone is actually arguing pro-duff? I thought everyone saying that HD was one of the best CDs of the year was one of those cheeky jokes. One of those so funny you dont need to explain it deals. Someone ACTUALLY means it? How are they old enough to understand how to use the internet?

On another note, a Prop and HD tour is something I would MOST DEFINETLY attend. There is no sarcasm in that.

Anonymous (October 20, 2005)

i love Chris Hannah. A stinkweed by any other name...

Anonymous (October 20, 2005)

I really, really wanted to like this album but I'm not all that impressed. I think it is their weakest album.

Also, what is with that lame "Glen Lambert" shit. Chris Hannah thinks he is important enough that he needs an alter-ego. It reminds me of that dumb shit Garth Brooks did a few years ago.

Anonymous (October 20, 2005)

"Youre the sad cunt, you fucking turdmonger. You can't even dinstinguish things for yourself.

I never listened to N'SYNC and I detest Avril Lavigne.

I can all but guarantee that I've been listening to Propagandhi longer than you have"

thanks for posting the same message twice. you like Prop AND duff???? words fail me...

HD represents everything that's wrong with mainstream music, the industry and manufactured acts!!!

then you follow it up with this gem which much surely go down on the cock munch hall of fame:

"I can all but guarantee that I've been listening to Propagandhi longer than you have"

so apart from "i saw them 1st i saw them 1st" you quite clearly have never actually listened to any of their songs or read anything they wrote if you like HD. Or is it that you are a 22 year old virgin who wants to lose his cherry to her instead of 5 knuckle shuffling over her poster in bed hoping that mummy (who'd you'd like to pipe as well) won't catch you?

Anonymous (October 20, 2005)

>>>>>Youre the sad cunt, you fucking turdmonger. You can't even dinstinguish things for yourself.

I never listened to N'SYNC and I detest Avril Lavigne.

I can all but guarantee that I've been listening to Propagandhi longer than you have

Anonymous (October 20, 2005)

"I think that if you are being honest this record and the record prior do not stand up to "More Rock" - yeah, they got tougher and lost Samson (who has flourished into something better than Propagandhi currently is) - but the songs and riffs are not as creative as they once were. The fact that they got tougher doesn't bug me, I like tough music, but the songs are lacking creativity. This reviewer would agree with me off the record I am sure."

No, the songs and lyrics are much more creative now than Less Talk (which is a good record). It's not a matter of being dishonest for one say they like the last two records more than the first two. That's a silly thing to say.

off_the_fucken_map (October 20, 2005)

this album has taken a little time with me, but oh my god it is now fucking unbelievable. amazing album by the best band in the world.

Anonymous (October 20, 2005)

This album absolutely wails. I was out, half in the bag the other night right after a hockey game and my buddy throws on the last track of the new album to show me (I had to special order and hadn't gotten it yet). Man, there is some thrash in here that hasn't gotten me so pumped up since I got my copy of Among the Living by Anthrax back in grade seven. If these guys ever decide to actually come back to town (they don't seem to like to tour - but it's worth the wait, trust me), I'll likely pop a nut. Propagandhi is now my favourite punk band AND in my top 3 for metal. This is a full-blown Punk-Metal Meltdown and we're all gonna die. Support creative talent - BUY this album and if you have the patience, order from G7 directly.

Anonymous (October 20, 2005)

I think that if you are being honest this record and the record prior do not stand up to "More Rock" - yeah, they got tougher and lost Samson (who has flourished into something better than Propagandhi currently is) - but the songs and riffs are not as creative as they once were. The fact that they got tougher doesn't bug me, I like tough music, but the songs are lacking creativity. This reviewer would agree with me off the record I am sure.

jamespastepunk (October 20, 2005)

This is the best punk reck record of the decade. Everyone of you americans can't see how right the lyrics are.

Words defy me...

Anonymous (October 20, 2005)

"Everyone of you americans can't see how right the lyrics are"

Everyone of you non-Americans like to put every American in a box. Everyone of you should stop that.

Anonymous (October 20, 2005)

This is the best punk reck record of the decade. Everyone of you americans can't see how right the lyrics are.

Here in europe we think it

Anonymous (October 20, 2005)

Youre the sad cunt, you fucking turdmonger. You can't even dinstinguish things for yourself.

I never listened to N'SYNC and I detest Avril Lavigne.

I can all but guarantee that I've been listening to Propagandhi longer than you have.

Anonymous (October 20, 2005)

hilary duff? you sad cunt.

get back to listening to NSync and the rest of your poppy avril lavigne-esqe shite

Anonymous (October 20, 2005)

As for the Hilary Duff / Propagandhi tour suggestion, due to Propagandhi's lack of touring, I think that I can safely say that I am probably one of maybe 5 people who come to this site who have had the distinct and unique privilege to see both Hilary and Propagandhi live.

And they were both fucking AWESOME!!!

That tour would be so much fun.

Anonymous (October 20, 2005)

score is for the record. very, very good record.

Anonymous (October 20, 2005)

ahhhhhh.....let me bring reintroduce hillary duff back in the picture...she should go on tour with propagandhi..that would be the best tour ever

Anonymous (October 20, 2005)

Chris didn't change his fucking name to Glen! arghhhh, I think Chris's name on Less Talk, More Walk was Jesus H. Christ. What's wrong with you fucking people, he made an inside joke about Portage La Prairie (his and Jord's hometown) He didn't change his name to Glen. Fuck!

Anonymous (October 20, 2005)

PS. I mispelled 'propagandhi' and also forgot to mention how no one seems to have acknowledged the fact that the last time that news was posted on this band half of you were shit talking how glen is a wannabe chris or sounds way worse or whatever.... you all suck. Well most of you anyways. I just think its kind of funny how no one seems to be bringing it up, yet it was all the rage in the last discussion.

And in case anyone has yet to figure it out, chris changed his name to Glen.

Anonymous (October 20, 2005)

Well I started reading the comments but gave up about 1/3 of the way up...

Alls I have to say is that Propaganhi is the real deal... And for those of you who think htat they are 'elitist' or too political or whatever, you should think about educating yourselves. The USA (and Canada, and pretty much every 'first world country') does not give two shits about the rest of the world. 30 Million people are dying from AIDS in Africa, and even the healthy ones are at risk of dying from starvation, intrastate conflict and countless other problems... most of which were inflicted during colonization. There is so much fucked up shit in our world, and if you want to turn down the volume and defend fat mike or rancid or whatever, that's your perogative... but don't post on here critisizing this band for putting out a REAL message instead of jumping on the political bush-bashing bandwagon.

RESPECT

ClicheMyHeart (October 20, 2005)

Gandhi > Propagandhi......sorry its the truth

RondoMondo (October 20, 2005)

As much as I like Propagandhi, this cd isn't doing it for me. First time I heard it I thought it was the greatest cd ever, but now I just think it's kind of long-winded.

The score is for Conflict's "A.L.F."
(by the way, Conflict is THE best 80's band)

Anonymous (October 20, 2005)

"I find it funny that they talk shit about Rancid yet they changed their style completly to hardcore when that Fat Wreck sound was losing popularity. This band is a joke and should tour with Leftover Crack. They could call it "BIGGEST WHINERS EVER TOUR

you do realize that these guys don't give a shit about punk rock, and are pretty much influenced by metal only.

Anonymous (October 20, 2005)

The lyrics and liner notes are the good part of this album.
The music is boring melodic hardcore. Pretty disappointing...
Also, no need for attacking Fat Mike for doing what he thinks is right. There are much much worse people they could have saved that paragraph for.

I love Propagandhi sooo much, but no matter how much I try to convince myself that this is a good album, it's not. It's barely listenable.

Anonymous (October 20, 2005)

"The Weakerthans have moved a tad bit beyond "power-pop" if you ask me."

Well no one did ask you, shut your stupid mouth.
I also agree with you.

Anonymous (October 19, 2005)

"Looking forward to hearing this, but one question. That (really helpful) Jam review and this review made me think of the outspoken political music of Jeff Ott. Is this new Propaghandi release presented as humorlessly and unrelentingly as Jeff Ott's solo cd (snicker snicker) or later Fifteen records?"

No, these guys have a less light-hearted view on things with a definite contrast in their policy on raping.

-Will

darkstarm (October 19, 2005)

The Weakerthans have moved a tad bit beyond "power-pop" if you ask me.

Anonymous (October 19, 2005)

" I bought this cd at Best Buy using coupons from Mcdonalds that I bought while working for Shell"

true story?

the only way i would purchase a propagandhi cd is from a large corporation....got to offset the pollutant lyrics that this band spews somehow

Anonymous (October 19, 2005)

"I find it funny that they talk shit about Rancid yet they changed their style completly to hardcore when that Fat Wreck sound was losing popularity. This band is a joke and should tour with Leftover Crack. They could call it "BIGGEST WHINERS EVER TOUR"."

So changing their sound had nothing to do with their bassist leaving and forming a power-pop band(The Weakerthans), while their new bassist used to play in a thrash band (I Spy)? You don't think that maybe, just maybe, during the 5 YEARS between 'Less talk, More rock' and 'Today's Empires, Tomorrow's Ashes' they changed because Samson's style and Todd's style were pretty much opposites?It's not like they changed overnight,it just seems that way becuase they didn't release any material in between.

I don't like the new album as much as TETA, but I didn't really like that the first time I heard it either.

Anonymous (October 19, 2005)

You know, I absolutely love this band and have loved them since 1996.

But this new album is just not that good on first listening. It sounds like streaming words on top of a lot of sound, not like actual songwriting. Some of the stuff has its moments, but overall... not so much.

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and listen to it a ton and let it work some magic on me.

Anonymous (October 19, 2005)

I think that Mike and Propagandhi are big enough boys that they can disagree about things and still be friends. Anyway it isn't a surprise that Propagandhi didn't want to do the Rock Against Bush comp, they said initially that they were wary of working on a project that was associated with Soros and the was promoting Kerry a canidate that they did not support, even as much as they hate Bush. Also its not like they had a new song or anything they had just simply renamed Bullshit Politicians.

Anonymous (October 19, 2005)

Definition of Irony: I bought this cd at Best Buy using coupons from Mcdonalds that I bought while working for Shell

lushj (October 19, 2005)

Looking forward to hearing this, but one question. That (really helpful) Jam review and this review made me think of the outspoken political music of Jeff Ott. Is this new Propaghandi release presented as humorlessly and unrelentingly as Jeff Ott's solo cd (snicker snicker) or later Fifteen records?

Anonymous (October 19, 2005)

egh. pokemon city limits.

Anonymous (October 19, 2005)

I dunno about this album. Maybe it's a grower. Most of the songs seem really awkward though, but I didn't like TETA all that much when I first bought it. Now I think it is one of the best punk records of the last 10 years.

Anonymous (October 19, 2005)

punktastic.com for why Blink went on a hiatus.

Anonymous (October 19, 2005)

there is A LOT to criticize on this record. i think a couple of songs are awesome. but i think Jord, the drummer, is sloppy as hell. he has always been sloppy, and its kinda sad that after 15-20 years of playing that he wouldnt learn when NOT to hit your fucking cymbals. rod's songs are BLEH at best, just like they were on TETA. i think the biggest improvement is chris's voice which fuckin soars on this record. but overall, after a 4 year wait, i was a bit disappointed by the amount of slopiness of the arrangments and drums. and i know they have always thrown in their words on all the records, but words seem a lot more forced this time around, they dont seem to flow at all which takes some of the power away from the content. This is not an amazing record. three stars.

Anonymous (October 19, 2005)

".i mean how are you able to follow a tiny white golf ball in the sky but not a black puck on a white ice surface?"

Yeah, how hard is it for the average American to differentiate a black from a white?"

bravo.

Can you imagine if there was a black hockey player on the ice? you'd think they were playing multi-ball on a pinball ame, they all look the same.

And propagandhi changing their sound to hardcore when the fat wreck sound wasn't popular......

its like when blink-182 went from pop-punk to pop/punk.

Yeah, the fat wreck sound was filling everybody's garage with bentleys.

lets just get back to the oldies

"I hear propagandhi wants me to believe everything they do. Isn't that like the same as what they hate?"

"I hear Chris Hannah isn't soley responsible for solving every problem that exists, sell out"

"I hear Chris Hannah and Fat Mike disagree on there favorite level of quake, how can Propagandhi say they hate the nail gun then let a guy who loves the nail gun release there record? hypocrites"

wyzo

Anonymous (October 19, 2005)

I definitely wouln't say that Propagandhi has caused "good social philosophy debates."

Read below for all the evidence you need.

discofucker (October 19, 2005)

Record of the year.

Anonymous (October 19, 2005)

Best Potemkin City = Washington DC

Anonymous (October 19, 2005)

Best "Potemkin Village" ever = from the movie "Blazing Saddles"

Score is for that movie.

Anonymous (October 19, 2005)

sick record. and no matter what your (poorly informed) opinion might be, at least Propagandhi got people to TALK about something. That's a lot more than most other bands can say they did. (Did you see any good social philosophy debates following the last Every Time I Die release? Nope.)

Anonymous (October 19, 2005)

".i mean how are you able to follow a tiny white golf ball in the sky but not a black puck on a white ice surface?"

Yeah, how hard is it for the average American to differentiate a black from a white?

Anonymous (October 19, 2005)

"What the fuck, Will? Humans are "objective beings?" Can you explain what that means, or do you even know? Technically that would mean that all people would automatically adopt an unbiased viewpoint on all issues. In actuality, all people see everything SUBJECTIVELY, as you demonstrate so vividly by talking out of your ass with such conviction."

No, individuals are of course subjective, but that is raised out of the objective nature of our learning process. Objective means "fill in the blanks."

-Will

Anonymous (October 19, 2005)

to add to my post right before this post, the one song that does feel emotional, like thier past stuff is "name and address withheld" but other than that its pretty sparse on this album.

Anonymous (October 19, 2005)

the music on this album really is pretty fucking amazing. and the lyrics are well written, but does anybody else out there feel like this album lacks the passion and emotion of their previous albums? i mean chris sings with emotion of course, but ah its hard to explain. i guess what im saying is the content of the songs lyrically isnt as moving and emotional as their past stuff. anyone feel the same way?

Anonymous (October 19, 2005)

"I find it funny that they talk shit about Rancid yet they changed their style completly to hardcore when that Fat Wreck sound was losing popularity"

well, it sure doesn't sound fake. i thiink it has more to do with them becoming better at their instruments. their drummer has always been awesome, but the singer/ guitarist was pretty...um...limited...on the first two albums. still good records, but fairly unsophisticated compared to the last two.

Big_Guy (October 19, 2005)

Or maybe they lost a bassist and went back to their "roots" of progressive thrash

Anonymous (October 19, 2005)

I find it funny that they talk shit about Rancid yet they changed their style completly to hardcore when that Fat Wreck sound was losing popularity. This band is a joke and should tour with Leftover Crack. They could call it "BIGGEST WHINERS EVER TOUR".

Anonymous (October 19, 2005)

Did this reviewer forget about Less Talk More Rock?

-Not-To-Regret

Anonymous (October 19, 2005)

Whats with this bullshit song-by-song review, this review is way too long for an obviously popular band, just buy the damn cheap record and judge for yourself, we don't need a freaking novel here.

-Not-To-Regret

Anonymous (October 19, 2005)

"the difference is, mike wanted bush out of presidency at any cost, propagandhi (not even U.S. residents) thought that no two-party politician is suited for presidenct of the U.S."

Please, think before you post. What relevance is it that Propagandhi are not US citizens? The US hegemony effects the entire world. "No two-party politician"? What is that supposed to mean? It's not an issue of Democrat vs. Republican for Propagandhi. It's an issue of bad policy by both Kerry and Bush. Both support continuing terror in Iraq. Both supported the Iraq War after 911. Both support the military industrial complex as it now is. Both support the mulitary and monetary aid to our terrorist allies, Israel.

Kerry was a horrible candidate and his winning the election would've resulted in little change. The US would still call corrupt, undemocratic countries like Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan "allies" or "ideal Musllim democracies" and still support terror abroad. By supporting Kerry, Fat Mike and others completely compromised the values of freedom and democracy. If this "scene" means anything, it means not compromising one's values (for the most part, at least). A vote for Kerry is a complete compromise. I respect Mr. Burkett's intentions. The Bush administration is a sick joke and anything else would be an improvement. But this is music for god's sake. Music is supposed to be where we all turn to purity. It's what makes us feel clean and sane in a world in which "normal" is completely ridiculous. When we take the metro and see a down-and-out woman scraping a living on a terribly low minimum wage with a couple kids and living in some hovel that violates every local housing code. Normal like Guatemala, the Phillipines, Cuba, Columbia, Afghanistan, Iraq, our Indian homeland, and every other country the United States has fucked in the past 200 years. Propagandhi is right on when it comes to purity in music.

/endrant

-CaveatMalefactor

Anonymous (October 19, 2005)

They didn't think that no two-party politician is suited for presidenct of the U.S. .

They thought that George Soros and the Open Society Institute were worthy of criticism.

And they generally think that politics should be expanded beyond the two-party system.

There's a difference between that and the ridiculous statement you made.

wrongstring (October 19, 2005)

hands down best record of 2005

GlassPipeMurder (October 19, 2005)

the difference is, mike wanted bush out of presidency at any cost, propagandhi (not even U.S. residents) thought that no two-party politician is suited for presidenct of the U.S.

Anonymous (October 19, 2005)

why do people here automatically suppose a band can't be critical of someone involved in releasing their records (a friend even) if that person is doing something the band thinks deserves criticism?

don't forget, propaghandi wanted to be part of the rock against bush comp and fat mike wanted them to change their liner notes so as not to offend a billionaire. that deserves criticism. what goes around comes around.

fat mike lives very well under the bush administration. should he with hold his criticisms of bush because of that?

Josiah (October 19, 2005)

Someone elaborate on "stupid, stupid Fox Hockey coverage" for a non US/Canadian citizen, plz.

the line from the song is "your stupid fucking laser pucks were just the start..."

refering to when FOX aired NHL games with glowing pucks, and there would be a blue light trail behind the puck when it was passed and a red light when it was shot....it was unbelievably lame...i mean how are you able to follow a tiny white golf ball in the sky but not a black puck on a white ice surface?

this album was worth the wait.

...oh well

adam (October 19, 2005)

Standing up for something isn't hard to do at all. It seems that actually believing in something for longer than a 2 month period is harder to do than standing for some bullshit that you don't even believe in, ala "Punk Voter"/"Rock Against Whatever's"

It sort of makes sense that they were focused on the election, which is now over. PV just released that Protect comp anyways, so it's not like they're inactive.

-adam

threechordsandthetruth (October 19, 2005)

Someone elaborate on "stupid, stupid Fox Hockey coverage" for a non US/Canadian citizen, plz.

I'm downloading this right now, based on the lyrics someone linked to for Rock For Sustainable Capitalism.

Crookedsuperhero (October 19, 2005)

Yeah, so you can't actually come up with a reason they are still making money for a label they complain about, so you have another dig at Punkvoter?

Jeez....

Anonymous (October 19, 2005)

"I don't know Propagandhi very much (although "Back To The Motor League" is really good), but I'm really sick and tired of hearing their bullshit. Why bitch about the owner of the label you are on when you could up and leave it? What the fuck happened to standing up for what you believe in?"

Standing up for something isn't hard to do at all. It seems that actually believing in something for longer than a 2 month period is harder to do than standing for some bullshit that you don't even believe in, ala "Punk Voter"/"Rock Against Whatever's"

Anonymous (October 19, 2005)

how many hockey references are on this cd? just one. boo.

i miss the days of 'less talk more rock' - now thats a fuckin cd.

Anonymous (October 19, 2005)

I don't know Propagandhi very much (although "Back To The Motor League" is really good), but I'm really sick and tired of hearing their bullshit. Why bitch about the owner of the label you are on when you could up and leave it? What the fuck happened to standing up for what you believe in?

Anonymous (October 19, 2005)

What the fuck, Will? Humans are "objective beings?" Can you explain what that means, or do you even know? Technically that would mean that all people would automatically adopt an unbiased viewpoint on all issues. In actuality, all people see everything SUBJECTIVELY, as you demonstrate so vividly by talking out of your ass with such conviction.

Dante3000 (October 19, 2005)

Danny Bonaducci is by far the punkest person to ever exist on this plane of existance. Home boy went out, got trashed, took pills and then barged in and ruined his wifes birthday party because there were strippers. Then he cuts his wrists because she threatened to leave him. That muthafucker would fuck Iggy Pop up!
-Dante
P.S. Only reality show I watch, it's like your own personal crackhead cam.

Anonymous (October 19, 2005)

Why is Brian decreasing the amount of rock / justice on the site?!?!? Boo Brian.

Anonymous (October 19, 2005)

You people talk too much and think too little.

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

"i didnt mean to imply that propagandhi cares who is "punk" and who isnt. those dudes are smarter than that. i meant people on this site"

Ohh okay, understood. I'd say I was sorry, but punks don't apologize.

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

i didnt mean to imply that propagandhi cares who is "punk" and who isnt. those dudes are smarter than that. i meant people on this site

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

I hope some of you will take the time to read the recommendations listed in the liner notes (for those who actually paid for this). The music tends to mean something more and becomes more powerful to you when you understand the background a little better.

Great album. Its melancholy is right on for this world.

-CaveatMalefactor

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

"and come on...who seriously gives a shit about who's punk and who isn't?"

If you knew what you were talking about, you'd know that they sure as hell don't. Propagandhi have been trying to distance themselves from the "punk" label for a few years now. I can even remember reading an interview with Chris before the last American election where he says something to the effect of "Punks are dumb. They listen to Rancid and vote Democrat".

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

The ISO develops the standards for who is and is not "punk". Here are the select few that qualify as "punk":
Don Johnson
Vlade Divac
Rhea Perlman but not Danny DeVito
The original Huggy Bear, but not Snoop Dogg
Danny Bonaducci
Mariah Carey
Nancy Kerrigan
and finally
Hurricane Katrina

It's settled. Now we all know.

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

this review gives a good explanation about the meaning behind the album name. some of which has already been established.

http://jam.canoe.ca/Music/2005/10/14/1262593-sun. html

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

I give a shit about who's punk and who isn't, and you sir are not, anyways...id rather be listening to the soviettes

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

"so maybe instead of singing about how fat mike is coporate and blah blah blah, they should've severed ties with Fat, released it only on G7, and not allowed it to be sold at places like target, best buy, amazon, and tower"

EXACTLY

like i said before, this is the first band i'd expect to actually follow through on things like this. but i guess its more convenient to bitch about how much money fat makes while they're cashing their royalty checks.

and come on...who seriously gives a shit about who's punk and who isn't?

the_other_scott (October 18, 2005)

easy bsd, maybe after your nap you'll be a little less jumpy

i never called them "preachy"
i like political music, i think its a good thing, on either side

however, i'm generally more impressed with a band who says "here is our outlook, do with it what you want"

instead of "here is our outlook, if you disagree you're a capitalist pig whose morals and beliefs are not worthy of our approval"

of course outside influences are essential in our thought process, but smart people pick and chose from those outside influences, like when you make a sandwhich you choose what you like and what you don't, but you didn't create the lettuce...bad analogy i know

so maybe instead of singing about how fat mike is coporate and blah blah blah, they should've severed ties with Fat, released it only on G7, and not allowed it to be sold at places like target, best buy, amazon, and tower

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

"their ethics are commendable, but their ability to shove it down throats conistently only weeds out the kids who can't think for themselves"

Oh yeah... Because they actually know about what they sing about and sing about what they think is really important is "shoving it down their throats." You're a fucking moron. You symbolize a sad and idiotic trend in modern art where people who have something to fucking say and act upon their beliefs are looked upon as "preachy."

By the way, since humans are objective beings, it's been proven that no one can completely "think for themselves." Your nature is a composite of a number of influences upon your way of thinking, and no one can exist independent of all influence (unless they end up like the Wolf Boy of France). Your weak-kneed American democratic beliefs are not a product of your genious.

-Will

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

"Anyone who likes Propagandhi doesn't know shit about politics"

This isn't true, but it isn't necessarily NOT true.

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

tell me how Hilary Duff is punk?

and

yeah - exactly how is hilary duff punk?

Why don't you ask Brian at Punknews? He seems to be sitting on a stellar piece of rock journalism.

the_other_scott (October 18, 2005)

in case anyone is wondering, this album is available through target, amazon, best buy, and tower among other places

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

Anyone who likes Propagandhi doesn't know shit about politics and isn't the slightest bit "punk."

I'd like to respond: "Erroneous! Erroneous! Erroneous on both counts!"

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

"its sad. this band could be SO relevant right now, and they spend their time bitching about who's "punk" and who isn't. this is the first album that they've musically regressed on. F"

It's one fucking song and it's about "major label punks" who bitch about the system that they choose to be a part of. It's about armchair activists in some sense.

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

its sad. this band could be SO relevant right now, and they spend their time bitching about who's "punk" and who isn't. this is the first album that they've musically regressed on. F

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

check out the new website...just put up today
www.propagandhi.com

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

"Iteration" sends chills down my spine....

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

SHIT, that is pretty cheap.

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

What a great record...Seriously, I'm at a loss for words listening to this. It now seems like Propagandhi's other records were simply used as a practice tool to build this masterpiece. And you can all fucking quote me on that...because let's face it, you will.

----Trav.

Crookedsuperhero (October 18, 2005)

http://www.hmv.co.uk/hmvweb/displayProductDetails.do?ctx=280;-1; -1;-1&sku=425124

Seriously though, that's pretty fucking cheap for over here....

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

Fedallah's Hearse is such an awesome song it's been stuck in my head all day. The review makes it seem like that song is song 2, it's actually song 3.

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

For those who criticize Propagandhi for sticking with Fat, even though they criticized Fat Mike. I don't see any problem with sticking with Fat. Both Fat and Propagandhi have said they are still friends after the whole Rock Against Bush issue. And Propagandhi have worked with plenty of groups they don't necessarily agree with, when it's for a good cause. They mention working with churches and what not in the past, when it's for a good cause. And anyone who says these guys don't live up to their word obviously don't know anything about this band.

the_other_scott (October 18, 2005)

"Propagandhi's ethics kind of weed out the kids who will only be into it for a year or two."

that's bullshit

their ethics are commendable, but their ability to shove it down throats conistently only weeds out the kids who can't think for themselves

Dante3000 (October 18, 2005)

I just went to two fucking record stores (tower [blah] and Rasputins) niether one had this fucking album!!! I don't want to resort to going to the "short bus operated" streetlight Records to find this thing. I'd do mail order, but I'm impatient and our mail man is a fucking nutbag.
-Dante

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

"We're fucked boys"

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

"Maybe Mike doesn't have as strong as convictions as them, but at least he isn't opening for MCR, or co-headlining with Blink 182 in stadium tours.

Someone has to make punk accessible beyond Good Charlotte and The Starting Line, while maintaining some creditability. Fat Mike isn't perfect, but he does a god damn good job at it"

Why? Why does someone have to do that?

Propagandhi's ethics kind of weed out the kids who will only be into it for a year or two. People who don't connect "radical" politics with their punk scene probably don't get much out of this band, anyway. I don't know how it would feel to merely nod along with Crass lyrics... "Oh they're clever, but this isn't what I believe in."

And yeah, I do think the accessible politics of many big punk bands are pretty cop-out... As if voting for Kerry would make the world a much better place.

-Will

Crookedsuperhero (October 18, 2005)

I think it says all there needs to said that they complain so much about Fat Mike, but don't mind him shipping all their releases around and advertising for them.

Still, what's new. This band manages to point out all the problems in the world but they'll never have the solutions.

Bryne (October 18, 2005)

What a fucking killer album. Seriously.

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

Sick record.

anarchaeologist (October 18, 2005)

Note the picture of John Kerry and Fat Mike above the lyrics for Rock for Sustainable Capitalism.

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

I just picked up the new album. It's truly inspirational. The artwork in the booklet really hits you hard emotionally. The commentary from Todd motivates those who want to do something positive but feel like they can't.

Perfect album.

P.S. the one line insults to popular figures in the punk community throughout the book are great and the Trailer Park Boys quote is gold.

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

yeah - exactly how is hilary duff punk?

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

Any album that has a quote from the Trailer Park Boys on its first page deserves a perfect score.

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

Fuck this band. Anyone who likes Propagandhi doesn't know shit about politics and isn't the slightest bit "punk."

-Will

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

tell me how Hilary Duff is punk?

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

Everytime i read this album title i think "pokemon" hmm i think it's just me then?

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

they absolutely have a right to comment on it, but their comments would have a lot more credibility if they were made on a record that wasn't directly benefitting from those practices. i would THINK a band like this, if they had a problem with the label so big it warranted a song being written about it, that they'd leave the label.

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

Look in the news section and the album reviews. Everclear, The Chemistry, Institute, Near Electric, MxPx, Fall Out Boy? Duff is punker than virtually all of the non-punk things that make it on this site and plenty of

As for Propagandhi's place in commenting on Fat's business practices, there's a new stipulation that in order to get elevated to a National Park Monument, you pretty much have to swear total allegiance to the current administraion and forgo any criticism or opportunity to even plead the fifth.

If anything, you have the right to question what's going on in your backyard more than others.

This band puts their "money" where their mouth is pretty much more than any band out there. Look at what they've done, their albums, tours, G7. They aren't making a ton of money. They aren't cranking out albums. They're doing what they want to do and what they think is interesting and right.

Comments about the record being boring, lacking catchiness, etc. are valid, I suppose. That's just like, your opinion, man. Yeah, it sounds different from their other stuff. I think it's great. But you can't skateboard as easily to it.

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

this album is fucking awesome. and the review was well-written. easily one of the very very best records to come out this year.

-phdecontrol

jockmcbored (October 18, 2005)

stands for For Fucks Sake

off_the_fucken_map (October 18, 2005)

that person down there is right, this album does feel like a fucking event. i cant even comprehend what is happening with is. haha. this is definitly going to take some time. does anyone know what impending half head is about. i cant figure it out for the life of me.

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

Ffs?

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

hilary duff..... what a pile of fucking shite. fuck me. no really. jesus christ. you admit you like hilary duff on a punk site. FFS!!!

think its an joke between fat mike and propagandhi about anti-flag not an anti-fat mike dig

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

commenting on fat's business practices is pretty fucked up considering propagandhi benefits directly from them.

this is the first band i'd expect to put their money where their mouth is, and looks like they're not into doing that anymore.

oh, and this record is completely boring. it lacks any of the catchiness of the early material or the balls-out heaviness of today's empires. the songs take forever to go nowhere. they need to hang it up already.

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

A good point, but at the same time saying what you've said about Fat Mike

It's like people who argue in favor of Bill Clinton. Sure, maybe better than George Bush, but still absolutely terrible across the board. Aubin was, I think, mistaken to suggest that a Bush presidency brought out a darker Propagandhi. First of all, Empires was recorded before Bush took office and it's somewhat clear from their writing about the album that it came more from their own growth and maturity (they're much older than they were in 1993).

And the criticisms in the Propagandhi song of Fat Mike, Warped, etc. are actually pretty serious and harsh. I particularly like the mentioning of Vans foreign factories.

Does this mean that the Asskicking Stage will have to be its own tour, rather than a stage on Warped? The fact that this album is on Fat and G7 suggests that the answer is "not necessarily."

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

I'm going to refer you to Track 9 on Bigwig's 1999 album Stay Asleep.

sickboi (October 18, 2005)

God damn, my last sentence looks like it was written by a 12 year old with a manic panic mohawk.

sickboi (October 18, 2005)

Mocking "when did punkrock become so safe"?

If its some inside joke between Mike and them, which it prolly is, right on.

But...

Maybe Mike doesn't have as strong as convictions as them, but at least he isn't opening for MCR, or co-headlining with Blink 182 in stadium tours.

Someone has to make punk accessible beyond Good Charlotte and The Starting Line, while maintaining some creditability. Fat Mike isn't perfect, but he does a god damn good job at it

swingline (October 18, 2005)

hilary duff was cool before she sold out.

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

the first comment on this review couldn't be more true.

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

Sickboi,

What nitpicky things are you thinking of?

It seems, to me anyway, like they can often come out swinging, but that they have lost a lot of the self-righteous bent that they had in the mid 90s that was more present in their live-show banter between songs, rather than lyrical content. Sure, they make some arguments and go after people, but they also make it pretty clear why they think it's important to do and I haven't really been given much to think that much of it lacks merit.

sickboi (October 18, 2005)

Will, there is a difference between convictions, and flat out complaining to pander to your fanbase.

I'm sure they have a few skeletons in their close too....

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

It's called having convictions... Are they the new Clash? No... They aren't really ingenious... But it shows how stand-out it is to have a punk band with convictions.

They should be pissed at their former peers who make a mockery of everything they stood for. Prop went through the 90's punk thing and CHOSE not to sell out.

-Will

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

fucking album of the year (so far...).

kirbypuckett (October 18, 2005)

Son of a...

I forgot to buy this at the record store today...I knew I was missing something.

- Kirby

sickboi (October 18, 2005)

I can understand a lot of Propaganhi's points, but to be quite honest, they are somewhat elitists. No one is perfect. But they continue to bash every little tidbit about "who's punk" and "who righteous" and so on.

I love this band, and I love a lot of what they stand for. But for all the shit they preach about intolerance, they sure can pick at the small shit in life.

peilocal (October 18, 2005)

I think in the song as well, that Propagandhi are probably referring more to Anti Flag. One of the comments in the G7 newsletter a few months ago mocked Anti Flag for signing to a major citing the need "to get their message out to a larger audience."

As for the possible Rancid reference, I know they reviewed the last Lars Fredierkson and the Bastards cd. Here is what G7 had to say about it:

G7 REVIEWS LARS FREDRIKSON AND THE BASTARDS

Has anybody seen this living dip-shit's newest re-invention of himself? Here's a heads-up bozo: real studs don't have to *hire* naked ladies to take pictures with them and real gangsters don't *rent* replica glauck's for their photo shoots. They actually *own* guns. *Real* guns. I can't believe this nerd. I dunno, is there a state law in California that requires every punk band to be stupid, terrible and pathetic? They have a law like that up here in Canada in the province of Ontario.

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

To everyone with anti-flag cds: trade them in today, do yourself a favor and stop listening to psuedo-kiddie political punk and use the money you get for trading those peices of shit in for the new propagandhi album.

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

I hope I get this in the mail today. This score is for Propagandhi.

peilocal (October 18, 2005)

The booklet for the album also has the lyrics. And on the page with the lyrics for Rock for Sustainable Capitalism, there is a picture of Fat Mike shaking John Kerry's hand.

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

Can anyone seriously argue that there's a better punk band than Propagandhi right now? They embody what punk is about. Fantastic album.

Dante3000 (October 18, 2005)

so where's the Fat Mike reference? How do you know this is Rancid (soz but i haven't memorised their videos) are all these in the liner notes
I think the Rancid comment is about the party and shit but I don't know since I've never seen it.
As for Fat Mike, "When did punk rock become so safe" is a line out of "Seperation of Church and Skate" (I believe). So it sounds fairly critical of the Fat one.
-Dante

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

I fuckin' love that one rock video where that fucking jack-ass mohawked millionaire prances around by far the worst sausage party on earth, where by mere chance he's caught on film shaking hands with an incredibly diverse collection of patriotic skins. I like the message it sends: With a Rebel yell, Just Do Exactly What You're Told. One million douche bags can't be wrong? "When did punk rock become so safe?" You'll excuse me if I laugh in your face as I itemize your receipts and PowerPoint your balance sheets. I hear this year's Vans Warped Tour is "going green!" I guess they heard that money grows on trees. Hope they ship all those shitty bands overseas like they did the factories. Music's power to describe, compel, renew... It's all a distant second to the offers you can't refuse. Anyone remember when we used to believe that music was a sacred place and not some fucking bank machine? Not something you just bought and sold? How could we have been so naive? Well, I think when all is said and done, just cause we were young doesn't mean we were wrong. And I'll rock back and forth on this two-bit hobbyhorse 'til she splinters and gives way. I'll tend the flowers by her grave. And whisper her name. If anyone out there understands can I please see a show of hands just so I know I'm not insane? Ever get the feeling you've been played? Well, that's rock for sustainable capitalism and you know, we may face a scorched and lifeless earth, but they're accountable to their shareholders first. That's how the world works.

so where's the Fat Mike reference? How do you know this is Rancid (soz but i haven't memorised their videos) are all these in the liner notes

peilocal (October 18, 2005)

I'm a little disappointed the review didn't mention anything about the booklet. Not only does this kick ass musically, the booklet is fantastic too. Great artwork from Eric Drooker, and some great commentary from the boys in the band. And that photo of "Glen" That is funny as hell, and also pretty creepy at the same time. I haven't popped this in my computer yet, but is there any extras on the disc like last time?

Gotta love the Trailer Park Boys comment too. Go watch the Trailer Park Boys you silly Americans.

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

This album feels like a fuckin event. It's really hard to descibe how good this shit is.

SilentStorms (October 18, 2005)

Propagandhi = Best Punk Band Ever

sorry, I don't like the Clash

Great album too ... obviously

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

Potemkin villages were, purportedly, fake settlements erected at the direction of Russian minister Grigori Aleksandrovich Potemkin to fool Empress Catherine II during her visit to Crimea in 1787. Conventional wisdom has it that Potemkin, who led the Crimean military campaign, had hollow facades of villages constructed along the desolate banks of the Dnieper river in order to impress the monarch and her travel party with the value of her new conquests, thus enhancing his standing in the empress's eyes.

Modern historians, however, consider this scenario of self-serving deception to be, at best, an exaggeration, and quite possibly simply malicious rumors spread by Potemkin's opponents. Potemkin did mount efforts to develop the Crimea and probably directed peasants to spruce up the riverfront in advance of the party bringing the empress by boat to the Crimea. But the tale of elaborate, fake settlements, the glowing fires of which were designed to comfort the monarch and her entourage as they surveyed the barren territory at night, is largely fiction. Potemkin had in fact directed the building of fortresses, ships of the line, and thriving settlements, and the tour - which saw real and significant accomplishments - solidified his power.

So, while "Potemkin village" has come to mean, especially in a political context, any hollow or false construct, physical or figurative, meant to hide an undesirable or potentially damaging situation, the irony is that, in fact, there appears to have been no such thing.

--------

thanks to wikipedia, that is what is generally the etymological explaination of "potemkin village", which, fittingly and wittily, is expanded upon by the genius of propagandhi.

thank [insert deity name here] for these fucking guys. giving intelligent opinions on these fucked-up times.

rkl (October 18, 2005)

Propagandhi - Potemkin City Limits
Posted by Anonymous on 2005-10-18 09:40:46

"What's their problem with Rancid? Is it because Rancid has attained some measure of success (ie fame, noteriety, a place in the Punk Rock History Book, and yes - some money)?"

Maybe its because Rancid stalks the earth pretending to have invented punk rock (just listen to them boast about building Gilman st) all the while putting out nothing but generic major label records and then using that money to shove shit like Skinhead Rob and Devils Brigade down our throats.

one album != all the while. if youre going to be an elitist prick, at least have some semblance of what youre talking about. thanks, bye, stop skipping school, you damned truant.

anyhow, who wants to send this to me? im an affable guy. rkl@EFnet

Dante3000 (October 18, 2005)

Oh and I already got money on this being the title for next Floyd comp..."Floyd-tempkin City Limits", perhaps?
-Dante

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

I think the album title draws inspiration from three things.

The first is the Potemkin Mutiny of 1905, in which a Russian naval crew revolted because of unbearable conditions. Their uprising led to riots in Odessa and the the military came in and massacred a ton of people, including many civilians who supported the crew. It was famously depicted in Sergei Eisenstein's silent film "Battleship Potemkin."

The second, I think, is from the television show Austin City Limits which started in the 70s to showcase the growing country, blues, and folk scene in Austin, Texas.

The third is Hillary Duff. Because she shares the Asskicking Stage with Propagandhi and her new album is almost as good as this one (it would be better, but it's not all new material, but you would all know that if Punknews would post the review that they have for it).

poopypants (October 18, 2005)

"Maybe its because Rancid stalks the earth pretending to have invented punk rock (just listen to them boast about building Gilman st) all the while putting out nothing but generic major label records and then using that money to shove shit like Skinhead Rob and Devils Brigade down our throats"

as much as i love rancid this comment is fucking golden. god i hate skinhead rob.

paul

Dante3000 (October 18, 2005)

what does the album title "potemkin city limits" mean?
Potemkin village puh-TEM(P)-kin, noun:
An impressive facade or display that hides an undesirable fact or state; a false front.

Basically it means that we've reached the end of our facade. I'm sure they hope this album exposes a lot of things (both American, Canadian and just generally) to a lot of their listeners. Propaghandi have always been about being very up front, real and no bullshit. Almost, the exact oppisite of what the US (and politics in general) have become. I think they believe this era is coming to a nasty end as we have reached the end of the facade and can no longer ignore the filth that it hides.
OR, they thought it sounded cool.
-Dante

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

I can't believe you didn't mention the song "Iteration" in this review. Fucking song of the year.

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

Passionate, educational, inspiring is what this album is. There are a couple week tracks in the middle, but overall it's worth the purchase.

Propagandhi is usually one of the best lyrically.

sickboi (October 18, 2005)

Pokemon was after my time, so I don't know anything about it. I just saw the title, didn't know what it meant, and Pokemon came to mind.

tylerdurden8136 (October 18, 2005)

this album is great...and the review is really spot on. and no, the title does not remind me of pokemon. is that shit still around?

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

why the hell is there a half star?

fucking infinity stars...

best.band.ever.

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

Propagandhi lost big when the Weakerthans were founded.

OC

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

"Does anyone else see the album title and think it is "Pokemon City Limits"?"
If so, you might be a corporate whore.

(It's cool sickboi, I still like you)

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

"What's their problem with Rancid? Is it because Rancid has attained some measure of success (ie fame, noteriety, a place in the Punk Rock History Book, and yes - some money)?"

Maybe its because Rancid stalks the earth pretending to have invented punk rock (just listen to them boast about building Gilman st) all the while putting out nothing but generic major label records and then using that money to shove shit like Skinhead Rob and Devils Brigade down our throats.

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

They just need to do another "How To Clean Everything".
Propagandhi just bored me after that.

sickboi (October 18, 2005)

Does anyone else see the album title and think it is "Pokemon City Limits"?

OverDefined (October 18, 2005)

I've been waiting for this!

superdude (October 18, 2005)

This review was pretty good, but here’s how I would make it better:

1. Ok, so we know the trajectory of Propagandhi, but what’s the trajectory of a Propagandhi being hit with a hockey stick?

2. What’s the tourism boost that Potemkin City is expecting to receive?

3. Can I see a brochure?

4. If there is going to be a video for?“A Speculative Fiction” will it have an orange puck?

5. Didn’t I hear these guys on the Swift Boat Veterans ad?

LevitateMe (October 18, 2005)

I don't really listen to punk anymore, but I listen to this.

Ignitedude (October 18, 2005)

Fucking Awesome

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

it means "don´t eat yellow snow"

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

what does the album title "potemkin city limits" mean?

AlmostPunkEnough (October 18, 2005)

Crooky, yea, the songs are all pretty much too long. but i moved past that quickly. i think they're just being more ambitious. this album has a very 80's thrash-y feel to it. a lot of those songs were too long as well, but i love them all the same.

i can forgive certain bands for certain things, Prop is one of those bands. i guess i'm just too much of a fanboy.

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

Amazing album. Is it a 10? Not yet, but it very well might be. All the songs get stuck in your head and aren't forgettable like 99% of the other bands I listen to. Propagandhi rip.

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

score is for comparing the US army with the hitler youth -> that´s plain wrong when you look at history

axx (October 18, 2005)

Wow.. I waited for this for so long (well only a few years which isn't that long in a lifetime but still, it fellt long) and I can't exactly put words on it.
I'm not familiar with all the songs yet (obviously, it came out yesterday) but overall it sounds amazing.
Lots of metal bits here and there, now that can be a good or bad thing depending on your taste, but for me shredding-propagandhi sounds perfect!

lyrics are great and inspirational too.

oh and now mention of Iteration? man, I didn't think it was possible to write a closing song as good as Purina Hall Of Fame on the previous album, but apparently, it is. The solo is not as good, but the song overall is.. amazing.

very very good album. very.

iancccp (October 18, 2005)

this album, is so fucking great. jesus.

my only qualms are a couple of chris' mini-solos sound like theyre from the SNES game uniracers. and track four sounds like they're trying to be mastodon. but i guess that's a plus. come to think of it, the first one is too. ha.

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

"i get the feeling, though, that these guys take themselves way too seriously."

you couldn't be more wrong, unless you mean when hannah's between the pipes! look at him work that glove!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v55/jsolo_uno/pickies /DSC00069.jpg

Crookedsuperhero (October 18, 2005)

Come on man, all the songs are too long and just go off on tangents.

Not cool, but Iteration is a great song.

AlmostPunkEnough (October 18, 2005)

ok, i don't know why i couldn't log in before.

anyway, this shit is awesome. i didn't think it would be better than the last record, and i'm still not sure it is. amazing though. i hesitate giving this a 10 just yet, but i have a feeling in a few months i will.

these guys can't write a bad song. i don't get it. there's just always something about every song that i love. fantastic.

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

where on the irc can i grab the new lagwagon? if someone wants to send it to me, i will gladly upload tons of lagwagon demos. yo123slam@gmail.com. thanks

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

http://www.plyrics.com/lyrics/propagandhi/rockforsustainablecapi talism.html

Godfather (October 18, 2005)

i cant wait to hear this

Dante3000 (October 18, 2005)

Truly an awesome band in every sense of the word. They've never ceased to amaze me.
As for the Rock Against Bush comp I thought it was clear that Mike gave them an unedited slot on the second comp but the Propaghandi boys were a little leary of the whole deal and stayed clear. And I can respect both parties in that regard.
Great band, musically and morally...period.
peace.
-Dante

the_other_scott (October 18, 2005)

these guys are better than decent, but less than incredible... i guess that would make them good?

how to clean everything has some great tracks, but the humor behind the politics makes it a little bit easier to digest

i get the feeling, though, that these guys in general take themselves way too seriuosly

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

"i haven't heard this and i am willing to bet i'll think its crap. still can't believe i saw avail open for these bozos"

Anyone that doesn't realise that these guys are just as good (If not much,much better.) than Avail is the bozo. And who the hell uses that word anyways?
And I'm pretty sure hating records without hearing them is reserved soley for Avenged Sevenfold and My Chemical Romance, get it straight fucknut.

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

i thought chris is who left

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

you make a good point. samson leaves propaghandi and then bush wins the election. coincidence? i think not.

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

"I think it shows what kind of a guy Fat Mike is that he's open minded enough to allow a band to criticize him on his own label. "

and open minded enough to kick these guys off a comp for their liner notes too right?

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

Outstanding disc. Right now my favorite songs are 3 and 6 but that could change the next time I listen to it.

I think it shows what kind of a guy Fat Mike is that he's open minded enough to allow a band to criticize him on his own label. Obviously not many people agree with what Propagandhi has to say 100% of the time, but it's their relentless passion for their common goal of peace that makes them so good.

I've listened to Propagandhi's first three albums hundreds of times and I still can't figure out exactly what each song means, but that's what makes them so special.

cdogg (October 18, 2005)

What's their problem with Rancid? Is it because Rancid has attained some measure of success (ie fame, noteriety, a place in the Punk Rock History Book, and yes - some money)? I know it can't be something as petty as Rancid using Warner Bros' Distribution for their last CD. That would be ridiculous.

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

fuck you synthasauraus . i am going to FUCKING KILL you

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

i had to give it a minute, but pretty great repeat value.

the parts of songs are no match to the structure of the entire whole, and as an album, its the most consistent and solid record they've put out.

took me back to a time where this type of music actually said something. Rock for sustainable capitalism is one of the best titles i've read in a long while.

Todd performs his tracks impressively, sounding like a gruff version of the lead singer of choke, another canadian band.

wyzo

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

'I'm starting the I'm-scared-to-admit-I-don't-like-the-new-Propaghandi-club.'

I heard an advance copy of this and I can't say that I was that impressed by it. However, I wasn't too fond of some of my favorite bands (slapstick, pmfs) when I first heard them, either.

Empires was pretty kick ass but I'm gonna have to give this more time

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

absolutley brilliant.

-AlmostPunkEnough

CherryColaRain (October 18, 2005)

Oh and the ten was for this album. Which is spectacular.

gladimnotemo (October 18, 2005)

Uh, the songs I have heard on this are not my thing, musically, but lyrically, this seems to be spot-on, as usual. I don't know when I'm going to pick this up; if it was more like Empires, I would be all over it.

CherryColaRain (October 18, 2005)

a week ago, some random anonymous started telling me to stop posting everywhere. But this week has some amazing music so that dude can go fuck himself.

stevejonestherealbones (October 18, 2005)

i hope Walmart has this in stock tomorrow

- jones the bones

- stevejones8770@yahoo.com

skolarx (October 18, 2005)

i haven't heard this and i am willing to bet i'll think its crap. still can't believe i saw avail open for these bozos

jamespastepunk (October 18, 2005)

I'm starting the I'm-scared-to-admit-I-don't-like-the-new-Propaghandi-club.

Mute98 (October 18, 2005)

a true masterpiece...

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

It was more their liner notes bashing George Soros that lead to the dispute.

But it should also be noted that Fat (along with G7) put this record out.

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

Which song was it that Fat Mike didn't want on Rock Against Bush??

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

This album is pure goodness. I haven't felt so good yet so angry because of a song/album in a long time.

tristan (October 18, 2005)

How many albums give you chills every time you listen to them? And how many of those do you know will still be giving you chills in 5 years?

We expect a lot from this band and they couldn't have given us more. Excellent.

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

Aubin,

I'd be interested to hear about the effortless reinvention of their sound between 93's How to Clean Everything and 96's Less Talk, More Rock.

I love both albums (though I think that this and Today's Empires, Tomorrow's Ashes have more to appreciate), but it seems like both are Winnipeg meets California skate-punk, to great effect.

kenjamin (October 18, 2005)

Nice use of the word audacious.

kenjamin (October 18, 2005)

If Aubin thinks this highly of it I shall be checking it out. I've never heard of a band openly dissing it's record label over something not creative control or money related. Ballsy and cool

Anonymous (October 18, 2005)

This combined with Hilary Duff's "Most Wanted" and Paint It Black's "Paradise make the three best albums of the year.

Fucking brilliant and audacious.

Well worth the wait.

Exclusive Streams

Newest Reviews

Punknews.org Team

Other Places to Go