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Norma Jean - Redeemer (Cover Artwork)

Norma Jean

Norma Jean: RedeemerRedeemer (2006)
Solid State Records

Reviewer Rating: 1.5
User Rating:


Contributed by: danperroneDan Perrone
(others by this writer | submit your own)

Had enough of metalcore yet? Tired of bands trying to reinvent the same old breakdown using only one note? Surprised that Cookie Monster himself has not taken the reigns of a generic hardcore band by offering up his super heavy mosh-tastic growl? Well, Norma Jean is sick of you too! And they're .
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Had enough of metalcore yet? Tired of bands trying to reinvent the same old breakdown using only one note? Surprised that Cookie Monster himself has not taken the reigns of a generic hardcore band by offering up his super heavy mosh-tastic growl? Well, Norma Jean is sick of you too! And they're making you aware of this by releasing another album, Redeemer, chock full of more-of-the-same, mediocre heavy music that will be eaten up by sixteen-year-old boys and girls alike proclaiming them as "OMG the heaviest band I've ever heard!!!!"

At first listen, one may assume that Norma Jean actually made an attempt at changing up their sound a little bit, as vocalist Cory Brandan decided to give the Cookie Monster scream a rest and execute more of a yell, which allows him to use some harmony as well. However, behind him are the same redundant, chunky breakdowns that have been recycled two albums over, damn near stolen from We Are the Romans, the last full-length from metalcore pioneers Botch. This goes on for forty-two minutes. Actually, that may not be entirely fair, as "Blue Prints for Future Homes," "A Small Spark vs. A Great Forest" (nice buildup in this one), and "Cemetery Like a Stage" all incorporate a little more melody and interesting moments than past efforts from the band. The closer, "No Passenger: No Parasite" actually takes things a bit too far, with the line "wake up" repeated for five minutes preceding a wholly underwhelming climax. Still, when sandwiched between irritating and obnoxious rhythms that pound you into submission for all the whole reasons (think "Wow, I would give anything to make it stop" as opposed to "Man, this is so heavy and awesome, it's like I'm being pounded into submission!"), their impact is subdued and minimal. The vocals are definitely improved, but they only take Norma Jean so far.

Let's face it: Norma Jean has never been a very good band. From the very beginning, they've rehashed and abused what once made metalcore great: the brutality. They're still very one-dimensional (even with the updates to their sound, though they are welcome), and the music is so focused on the breakdown that it's sickening. Even the lyrics are pretentious, holier-than-thou, and sometimes try too hard to be badass ("Break out the shotguns / We're going to town!"). The star and a half seems terribly generous considering the review, but this is the first Norma Jean album that has songs that don't make me want to go ballistic. At least they aren't still combining two random words to make one uber-scene word.

 

 
People who liked this also liked:
Converge - No HeroesBotch - Unifying Themes Redux [reissue]The Chariot - The FianceťAlexisonfire - CrisisNorma Jean - O' God, The AftermathConverge - Jane DoeUnderoath - Define the Great LineNone More Black - File Under BlackThe Fall of Troy - ManipulatorFear Before - The Always Open Mouth

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Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not respon sible for them in any way. Seriously.
davidfortunato (September 11, 2010)

I was surprised to see this reviewer's comments as I have agreed with his past work, especially his reviews of A Wilhelm Scream and Comeback Kid.

Particularly, I take issue with the claim that Norma Jean's propensity for beating a dead a horse ("brutality" as the reviewer referred to it) is a weakness. Fans of punk music, metal, and hardcore alike understand that, most of the time, there simply is not a whole lot of new ground to broken. As such, we should be hesitant to penalize bands for doing the same thing over and over, but be all the more willing to praise bands for doing the same thing, but better. To me, this is where Normal Jean fits in. We don't get anything new, or particularly exciting, but we do get the music we like made better than anyone else releasing a record that year.

If you like hardcore/metalcore/whatever you want to call it, you'll most likely enjoy this record more than most in your collection.

viper77 (September 2, 2007)

not as good as 'O God' but better than country music...somewhere between there

jt (February 9, 2007)

a friend told me that this was experimental hardcore, so i thought kool, it might be like Dillinger Escape Plan or CTTS. but this album was just repetitive noise. i didnt like it very much

Paintitalex (December 6, 2006)

I've been listening alot to this album and i think its great, it takes time to get into it,

moneenerd (December 3, 2006)

... plus, this is 1 and a half stars from a guy who listed 311's newest one of the best of 2005

moneenerd (December 3, 2006)

whoa. harsh review.

i think this album is fuckin great, considering their last few efforts have been pretty week.

and i just saw them in toronto this sppring and dude... theyve got the brutality. probably one of the roughest shows ive been to in some time.

Left_Tee (November 30, 2006)

You fucking suck, I have no idea how you got the job as a reviewer on PUNKnews. What the fuck do you know of PUNK. I think you're looking for attention...Little bitch. Well here it is...Norma Jean is one of the few bands who is keeping hardcore music the way it is, who the fuck are you. Do you play guitar? Or go to hardcore shows at all? This band rips the stage up from under them. Excellent fucking shows...You dont know shit....

Band of the year, fuck you guys.

blagh (November 16, 2006)

who gives a fuck about botch. you dumbasses just cant admit when a band takes a sound and makes it better. i mean, who the hell is so pathetic that they go on reviews or whatever and shit from their mouth to the keyboard about a band?? if you dont like the shit, dont buy it, dont listen to it, and keep your fuckin mouth shut.
i know its slightly pathetic that i say anything, but damn. its hard not to when i see such idiocy. fuckers. norma jeans amazing.

zmrockon (October 7, 2006)

have a fucking open mind. judge bands individually.

Anonymous (October 5, 2006)

this is a punk rock site and they are bashing being repetitive. lol punk music is the most repetitive music in the world basically. same drum beat in every fuckin song (the drummer doesn't have to have any talent at all) the vocals of almost every punk band all sing about the same thing (life sucks and politics should die). there is like usually 5 cords in the songs which are just changed around for the next song and anyone that can pick up a guitar can play a punk song

Anonymous (October 5, 2006)

i love norma jean and lots of other diffrent types of music and people that think its shitty can go fuck a cow. go try and sell as many records as they have or don't say shit. i hate country and other types of music but i dont bash them because some of them are very talented. just because you don't like it dosen't mean that its shit it means u have diffrent taste. so like i said throw ur band together and if you sell more records than they do then bash them all you want. untill then shut ur mouths cause u know u got nuthing

Satelliteyrs (October 2, 2006)

peeps are sippin hatorade

ps.
love this cd

Anonymous (September 29, 2006)

it's called influence moron, sometimes bands don't even mean to sound like "rip-off's" of their influential bands.

Anonymous (September 28, 2006)

who listens to hardcore and has never heard of Botch? Norma Jean are rip off jokes who dont deserve to make money, or even music. This shit sucks. And Botch kicks fuckin ass

Anonymous (September 27, 2006)

Punknews.org are a bunch of cocks. Like what's been said before, don't review a band that you already don't like.

treos (September 27, 2006)

[i]Posted by danperrone on 2006-09-23 21:38:39

to put more reviews up, of course!

you suckers are sooooo mad about this review that you are bringing up shit from three years ago!!! yeah, like my buddies are gonna get all over my shit for PLAGIARIZING their work!!! bahahahahah you wish you knew what buddies were[/i]

He' right you fuckers are getting so mad about this review, and the sad part is most of the people in the begining of this review were on his side so now all you fuckers are just a bunch of fags jumping on the bandwagon and digging up shit on him, who the fuck cares about his pics in 2004?!? i thought some of them were pretty good fucking pics, I STILL listen to Kill the Switch man that is one BADASS song! and nobody better hate on A wilhelm Scream cuz that cd is fuckin incredible

I still never liked the first two norma jeans and think its good that they've grown toa little more melody

Anonymous (September 26, 2006)

i say it's about time we take the "core" out of metalcore, and just play some good metal ,leave that hardcore shit alone,it will never even be in the same stratosphere as metal ,so stop trying

Snakes (September 26, 2006)

what happened to the band that put out the metalcore masterpeice "bless the martyr kiss the child", i've long since grown out of the whole metalcore thing,but damn that was a good cd,and still is

Anonymous (September 25, 2006)

"Yeah, that "emo is from Europe" has got to be the craziest thing I've ever read on this site. I mean, for goodness' sake, emo is one of the few genres that actually has a pretty well agreed upon "first" band: Rites Of Spring."

EMBRACE!!!

-Will

Anonymous (September 25, 2006)

The american rock and roll scene is wat influenced alot of later metal bands......And blues...uh american....influenced wat is rock and roll......so without all that there wouldnt be no metal music....learn ur history man!!!...

Scruffy (September 25, 2006)

Yeah, that "emo is from Europe" has got to be the craziest thing I've ever read on this site. I mean, for goodness' sake, emo is one of the few genres that actually has a pretty well agreed upon "first" band: Rites Of Spring.

Anonymous (September 25, 2006)

what is that "give props to europe" bullshit?!?! you started your comment with a little blurb about how you were going to discuss the album...then you throw out a peice of stupid and useless information.

Anonymous (September 24, 2006)

Since when was Botch from Europe? Florida is known for older Death Metal and anyway you want to look at it emo was from America too.

Anonymous (September 24, 2006)

I'm not trying to be innovative but I'm going to actually discuss the album instead of bitch about what somebody else thinks of it.

Redeemer definitely doesn't bring anything new to the genre of hardcore itself but adds to Norma Jean's sound. In my opinion, O' God, The Aftermath fell short in a lot of aspects. Primarily the problems with that album was repetitive sounding songs and monotonous vocals. All that was fixed and improved upon with Redeemer. Cory sounds much much better and while fanboys might still bitch about how he's no Josh Scogin...well good...that just means he stands on his own as a vocalist. Cory is actually intelligible for once outside of the pseudo-choruses. Now for the music itself, there's more sense of melody and variety opposed to the breakdown-breakdown-fast breakdown-breakdown format they used with their debut. Not that it's bad, but they have to move on from that phase in their music. In conclusion to MY review, I give this album a fair 7 out of 10 for not being new to the genre but to Norma Jean for trying something new with their sound.

As for giving props to Botch. Yeah Botch definitely deserves some credit for Norma Jean's signature sound but so should every other fucking band from Europe that we American bands copied off of. Umm Death Metal...it started in Europe. New Wave Dance Rock...Europe. Modern Day Emo(core) Sound...from Europe.

arrhythmia (September 24, 2006)

Kenjamin, using the "opinion" defense is a cheap-shot. Sure, everything we say is our opinion, but Anchors is very good at what he does, regardless of my opinion.

And our tastes in music aren't necessarily similar. He likes old screamo, I like old screamo. As far as I know, that's about it. I'm commenting on how he writes.

Anonymous (September 24, 2006)

I loved the "OMG LOOK AT HIS TOP 20" post, where every album pwned this album fucking hard.

danperrone (September 24, 2006)

yep

crazytoledo (September 24, 2006)

By the way, the below statement is correct, right? (asks the question openly but mainly towards Dan)

crazytoledo (September 24, 2006)

The only thing dan perrone should review is his position. He admits using plagerism to further his career here at Punknews. Even if this is only a webzine certain stadards should be upheld, and plagerism of any kind is a serious matter. HIs position is untenable.

But wasn't that only for reviews by 'theundergroundscene.' Which was the name of the site thing.

I'm going to say that all the reviews under 'Dan Perrone' are wrritten by him.

So you should all stop bitching about it.

danperrone (September 24, 2006)

hahahah that's awesome

rkl (September 24, 2006)

[i]Posted by danperrone on 2006-09-23 21:38:39

to put more reviews up, of course!

you suckers are sooooo mad about this review that you are bringing up shit from three years ago!!! yeah, like my buddies are gonna get all over my shit for PLAGIARIZING their work!!! bahahahahah you wish you knew what buddies were[/i]

i swear to god, those are the lyrics from a madball song.

Anonymous (September 24, 2006)

The only thing dan perrone should review is his position. He admits using plagerism to further his career here at Punknews. Even if this is only a webzine certain stadards should be upheld, and plagerism of any kind is a serious matter. HIs position is untenable.

belladonna (September 24, 2006)

Norma Jean will never recover from the loss of their original singer.

Anonymous (September 24, 2006)

I'm pretty sure that in every Norma Jean interview, they give mad props to Botch, so its not like they think they're doing something different.

wyefa (September 24, 2006)

Seriously, this is ridiculous. I bet he listened once to the album and that was it. I never liked Norma Jean to begin with and I find this album to be very good. I'd give it a 7-8/10, not a 3/10. It does bring up some interesting stuff. I honestly really like what they did with the music and the vocals on this album.

Personally, the song 'No passenger, no parasite' is one I have liked. A lot. If you believe that everyone will like it, you're wrong, but to give it such a bad review isn't really being logical either. The music and vocals aren't crap. Sure, there are a few certain things which sound like other stuff other bands have made, but that is to be expected. You can't always be 100% original. Just take a look at 'As Cities Burn' - it was a total rip off from Underoath, but yet they were still very liked and praised.

I believe the reviewer came here and thought to himself 'Oh man, I hate Norma Jean, why do I have to review this shit?' and didn't even really try to listen to it. It's just like giving a movie a bad review when you only listened to 15 minutes of it.

Is this album original? Yes. It does bring some new aspects to the table which haven't been used to their full potential before. Is it the old Norma Jean? Hell no and for the best - it sounds like a new band which I actually like now.

And now I ask, why review something which you don't even like to begin with? The reviewer mentionned that Norma Jean have never been talented and that they ripped off this and that, but who cares? Honestly, they are talented musicians and even the best musician will sometimes sound like others. Just take Winds for example, it has some of the best musicians ever to grace the Earth and yet, one of Carl's solo sounds like one made by Ingwie. It wasn't intentional, but it still sounds alike.

Keep in mind that bands don't intentionally rip off riffs from other bands most of the time.

kenjamin (September 24, 2006)

arrhythmia, just because you agree with Anchors on something that is subjective doesn't make his score "legitimate." You just have similar tastes. Any when I say special attention, I'm not refering Anchors giving thanks to all the praise he receives for his wonderful reviews.

Anonymous (September 24, 2006)

"This is a punk site so why are you rating a metalcore album? If you don't like it, don't listen to it. The band aren't fresh but they're good at what they do. And no, once again my hair does not cover my eye, and my jeans are most definately not tight. Pretentious people who think 'oh dear god, we're oh so original' are even worse, cos it's next to impossible to be original now. This is a punk website! For fucks sake, punk hasn't changed since it was born all those years ago and now you're slagging off a METALCORE band for being unoriginal!

That makes no sense.

Oh and anyone who insults another persons religion should just fuck off. No-one has asked you to agree with what they say or do, but learn some respect, it's fucking simple"

If everyone followed your logic then critical thought would cease to exist. While it says punknews, it is not restrictive, and is beyond an umbrella term. Seeing as you are going through an uber PC phase, go choke on moldy semen and die.

Anonymous (September 24, 2006)

This is a punk site so why are you rating a metalcore album? If you don't like it, don't listen to it. The band aren't fresh but they're good at what they do. And no, once again my hair does not cover my eye, and my jeans are most definately not tight. Pretentious people who think 'oh dear god, we're oh so original' are even worse, cos it's next to impossible to be original now. This is a punk website! For fucks sake, punk hasn't changed since it was born all those years ago and now you're slagging off a METALCORE band for being unoriginal!

That makes no sense.

Oh and anyone who insults another persons religion should just fuck off. No-one has asked you to agree with what they say or do, but learn some respect, it's fucking simple

ThinMike (September 24, 2006)

Sounding new is not necessary, every band sounds like the bands that came before them. What IS necessary is to take what you know and do it in such a way that if not original, is at least interesting. I haven't heard this record but I'm speaking in generalities. If an album is cliche but still has really good songwriting, that familiarity doesn't hurt it too much. It's when you incorporate all the elements of a genre without actually writing a good song that you end up with stale, boring garbage, and it sounds like that is what the reviewer is complaining about here.

Think of it this way... judge a new band the same way you would judge a new record of a band you love. A band you like sounds similar to their last record, usually, and their success is based on how good the songs are, because you already know you like their sound. Bad Religion and Rise Against have written successful records with their signature sound largely unchanged, because the songs are good. Strike Anywhere has their sound perfected on the new record but in my opinion don't have one song even half as good as stuff from their other albums.

So the point is, sound new or old, but whatever you do, do it WELL and you will be praised for it. Do it boringly and only kids who haven't heard enough good music yet will think it's worthwhile. But hey I guess that's enough to get you a few million dollars...

greyicewater (September 24, 2006)

arrhythmia is right. the early chariot songs are golden. it's true.

arrhythmia (September 24, 2006)

"You seem to suffer from the same complex as Anchors were you feel that others pay extra special attention to you."

Uh. Anchors writes the best serious reviews on this site. He does get extra attention. I don't mean to say that all of his reviews are jaw-dropping, but they tend to be better than most, and his scores legitimate.

And the new Norma Jean sucks balls. Josh was the band. I don't really like his new band, The Chariot, but if you manage to find the demos they made before their first CD (really short, 1 to 2 minute songs), they're fucking amazing, and the best metalcore I've ever heard. This is coming from someone who hates metalcore.

danperrone (September 24, 2006)

i don't know where you saps are getting the idea that i don't like metalcore

Anonymous (September 24, 2006)

ok it may not be a revolutionary record, but dude give the genre a break, why is it a neccessity for a band to sound new everytime for it to be a good record? this is a terribly bias interview by someone who completly hates the genre,

brixtongunman (September 23, 2006)

"Its their band, their music, their choice."

no its not, they stole it from Botch you asshat.

Anonymous (September 23, 2006)

If you used to like Norma Jean, and don't anymore.

Then don't listen to it!

If you liked old Norma Jean better listen to the Chariot!.

Stop bitching and whining, If you are such a badass and think that norma jean isn't as good and as heavy anymore!!!...

Fucking A don't lsiten to them.

All of you fuckers who are bitching, stop whining, fucking emo fags and listen to something that u won't bitch about.

Its their band, their music, their choice.

Make your own band and play what u like.

Jeus christ people.

:].

Anonymous (September 23, 2006)

you people are morons. this album sucks. the only thing norma jean does well is rip off other bands. on the first album they ripped off botch riffs, poison the well breakdowns (which poison the well ripped off anyway) and deftones songs. and they have only gotten worse. do yourselves a favor and return this shit and get a botch cd

brixtongunman (September 23, 2006)

Listening to this album is LIKE BRINGING A KNIFE TO A GUN FIGHT

Someone needs to tell these guys that CHRIST IS NOT A FASHION-core...

ok, last one was pretty stupid.

Norma Jean needs to call it quits, but SHE SIMPLY WILL NOT DIE!!!

(ive listened to Bless the Martyr too many times)

kenjamin (September 23, 2006)

I wasn't defending Norma Jean. I was merely calling you out for being a hypocrite because I didn't know you didn't write those reviews.

Infact it makes me really bitter to think that Botch sold 25k records in their entire career and Norma Jean, who has ripped off Botch riffs, sold 25k in the first week! Fuck you dude who is dissing Botch because you've never even fucking heard of them! Get a fuckin' clue you spin-kickin' dipshit.

branden (September 23, 2006)

pretty entertaining review,the first passage made me laugh. im so tired of metalcore

Anonymous (September 23, 2006)

Why should people agree with anything you review from this point forward? How many of the reviews under your name are actually your reviews? It isnt about us thinking your friends are gonna be pissed that you are taking their credit, it is about trusting you as a person.

danperrone (September 23, 2006)

to put more reviews up, of course!

you suckers are sooooo mad about this review that you are bringing up shit from three years ago!!! yeah, like my buddies are gonna get all over my shit for PLAGIARIZING their work!!! bahahahahah you wish you knew what buddies were

niveK82 (September 23, 2006)

where I just threw up reviews posted by other members of the underground scene that weren't in the system = plagiarism. If you name was attached to the review. If you are reviewing an album with someone else's opinon, what is the point for posting it in the first place?

Archangel (September 23, 2006)

If you think choosing Circle Takes the Square for best album of 2004 is funny, then you're obviously going to be stupid enough to like Norma Jean and defend them against a blunt review.

tenwestchaser (September 23, 2006)

Wow, this thread has gotten really low in it's comments. Why so much hateful bashing? Weak.

GreenVandal (September 23, 2006)

Les Savy Fav...TV on the Radio...Sex Positions...Blood Brothers...Icarus Line...so what is funny about those picks again? I don't really like Kanye or Circle Takes the Square, but every album on there makes this one sound like a joke. Shit, me bashing my ass on a pan makes this album sound like a joke.

Anonymous (September 23, 2006)

If you want to laugh.. Look at his picks for 2004!

http://www.punknews.org/review/3596

Anonymous (September 23, 2006)

Oh, by the way, Dan Perrone sucks.

http://www.punknews.org/review/4098

He rated that album 3 stars? What a fucking loser. The number twelve looks like you is the worst music to have ever been created. HORSE the band and other shitty bands are like 10000 times better than #12.

You're fucking horrible Dan. Redeemer kicks #12's album in the dirt.

wyefa (September 23, 2006)

Horrible review. This is by far the best album Norma Jean has been able to offer in terms of musical arrangements and singing.

Before, it was just the same riff over and over with the same drum parts and the same screams on a song. It was hard to determine the various songs. Now, there is much more diversity and it is their better album to date.

Some bands opt for a better sound and I do honestly believe that Norma Jean has done so with their newest album.

Anonymous (September 23, 2006)

horrible review...what an absolute moron

Anonymous (September 23, 2006)

Dan your a fing moron... why even review this??? I've never heard of Botch because they sucked and didn't sound, write anything near the quality of Norma Jean.

The score is for the album F#*kers.

xdcsx (September 23, 2006)

well i still feel the jean is good and um maybe people should quit being all "oh ill comment things i dont like just to get an arguement going" if the reviewer didnt like it well thats him but uh sorry if others did

kenjamin (September 23, 2006)

you lost me.

danperrone (September 23, 2006)

HAHAHAH plagiarism...get a clue, holmes!!!

kenjamin (September 23, 2006)

You seem to suffer from the same complex as Anchors were you feel that others pay extra special attention to you. I've never posted anything about you other than the occassional reply or comment dude, sorry. And there's no way that I should have known that you are/were a plagiarist.

danperrone (September 23, 2006)

"http://punknews.org/review/2053

Hmmm...everyone used to love them.

How did everyone miss this? Dan Perrone wrote a review for "Bless The Martyr And Kiss The Child" in 2003 and gave it a 4.5 star review! You are so lame."

I'm pretty sure you always bring this up, but that was three years ago before I was even close to being a staffer where I just threw up reviews posted by other members of the underground scene that weren't in the system...YOU are you lame!

Anonymous (September 23, 2006)

yes jesus

ryne (September 23, 2006)

Yeah, fuck this review.
End.

Anonymous (September 23, 2006)

"Yes its exactly the same with Rise Against, Thursday and even to an extreme Against me! Your little band that you thought no-one liked suddenly got big, and instead of embracing that and being proud of them, you call them sell out fags and pretend to hate them (while secretly still listening and enjoying the new records). Dan is a prime example of this. Rant over

Moo"

Norma Jean has been a huge band since their first album released under that name blew up, which was around 5 years ago, this isn't anything new.

ANYWAYS THE SINGING IN THIS ALBUM SOUNDS LIKE THRICE AND IT'S REALLY REALLY FUCKING FUNNY.

ALSO THE NEW CROWN OF RIPPING OFF BOTCH GOES TO FEAR BEFORE THE MARCH OF FLAMES

Anonymous (September 23, 2006)

Yes its exactly the same with Rise Against, Thursday and even to an extreme Against me! Your little band that you thought no-one liked suddenly got big, and instead of embracing that and being proud of them, you call them sell out fags and pretend to hate them (while secretly still listening and enjoying the new records). Dan is a prime example of this. Rant over

Moo

Anonymous (September 23, 2006)

It would be cool if that crow as attacking one of the band members heads.

kenjamin (September 23, 2006)

http://punknews.org/review/2053

Hmmm...everyone used to love them.


How did everyone miss this? Dan Perrone wrote a review for "Bless The Martyr And Kiss The Child" in 2003 and gave it a 4.5 star review! You are so lame.

danperrone (September 23, 2006)

for the record, my opinion that a band has never been good has nothing to do with the current album and review at hand...it's just a way for me to close it out and tie it all back together, because this album does not stray far away from what made them bad in the first place...and i also never said i didn't like metalcore, in fact i do enjoy metalcore...i am just able to distinguish between good and bad metalcore

SCORE IS FOR THE REVIEW!!!

Anonymous (September 23, 2006)

This score is for the review. I do not like Norma Jean and I don't like metal-core if that's what you like to call it, but i have issues with your review. i don't think people who already hate a band and hate metalcore should write reviews for those ablums. It isn't fair to someone who likes them or likes their style of music.

I'm sure there are people on this board who like Norma Jean and this review is of no use to them but it is also no use to people who already don't like Norma Jean because we don't give a shit about them in the first place so the review serves no purpose.

treos (September 22, 2006)

i agree with everything...yes this si the best norma jean yet and yes metalcore is tired score is for review, you guys should check out this band from toronto called The Gorgeous. Their pretty indie and still kinda metal core but their sound is Very different and they dont sing about death or anything badass like your generic metalcore bands do. their cd is pretty cheap too. worth the dough.

Archangel (September 22, 2006)

Cherrycola: It has nothing to do with jealousy issues. I don't much care about Norma Jean's popularity versus Botch's, but let me try to play the devil's advocate here anyway: If some dude is pissed because Norma Jean is big and Botch isn't, it's because he sees the rip-off as gaining the popular reception and, therefore, financial support for aping the original's work. Think of it like this: Let's say Lifetime had faded away quickly and Saves the Day stepped up to the plate with a full-length taking half of Lifetime's material and throwing on nasal vocals, then blew up and earned five-star reviews while Lifetime was forgotten. Wouldn't the Lifetime fans be a little annoyed?

Botch is hardcore; Norma Jean is hardcore. (Or metalcore, whatever.) The point is they play the same style of music... I'm not debating that they belong to entirely different genres. I'm arguing musical merit.

As for the merch argument... I'd say it's a fair connection. I mean, sure, you can't fairly judge a band by their fans because musicians can't always hand-pick the kids at their shows. But what if the band puts out merch that apes the Blood Brothers? Oh, and what if they dress like this?: http://image.listen.com/img/356x237/1/7/7/9/659771_356x237.jpg


And I wouldn't care if the Lawrence Arms put out the same merch Underoath and their ilk are... I still don't see the appeal of the band.

Judge Norma Jean on musicianship alone? All right: They're rehashing what Botch did years ago, and they're indistinguishable from the dozens of other bands in their genre.

crazytoledo (September 22, 2006)

A much better release: The new Heavy Heavy Low Low album.

Dante3000 (September 22, 2006)

How is the new Shinobu?
-Dante

Scruffy (September 22, 2006)

"God damn, isn't there any music besides hard/metalcore and indie-pop to be reviewed?"

I reviewed the new Shinobu (Weakerthans/Jawbreaker type rock), and it came out on the 12th. I have no idea why the review wasn't posted.

cherrycolarain (September 22, 2006)

On another note to Archangel's last post.

Bands shoudln't be judged on their merch nor way of being, they should be judged on their musicianship. End of story.

Basically you're sayin' that if The Lawrence Arms or some other highly workshiped punk rock act had black merch with bright colour designs and broken writting, they would instantly suck? I'm just sayin'.

cherrycolarain (September 22, 2006)

This album kind of, somewhat, reminds me of Every Time I Die. And well, Norma Jean is hardcore, maybe not the same stuff that was going around earlier, but it's today's hardcore. Either way, I think if anything, Norma Jean did make a HUGE improvement on this album: vocals, lyrics, playing.... All of it is just done a lot better. I think they should be cut some slack for making that improvment.

And I agree with the guy that posted about the whole "Botch clone" thing. It's true, most Botch fans probably don't like this cause it's more popular than Botch was when they were around. I mean, Botch is hardcore and Norma Jean isn't? even though they sound the same? Seems like someone has jelousy issues.

Archangel (September 22, 2006)

Look, you're saying that since they sound like Botch, and we like Botch, we should like them, too, right?

Well, that doesn't take into account that if a band is recycling the same material that made one band great, adding a fashioncore twist (Check their merch before you argue), and throwing in a Christian leaning, they're like a watered-down, second-hand version of that band that wants you to go to church and spend too much money on your hair.

BroDave_17 (September 22, 2006)

howdy Archangel...its nice to meet you.

Anonymous (September 22, 2006)

Er... loud not lound sorry.

Anonymous (September 22, 2006)

I don't particularily like this band,however, I absolutely love the album art for some reason. So simple, yet makes me laugh out lound evry time I look at it.

boba_fett (September 22, 2006)

ive tried, but i just cant get into them. my former band mates thought they were awesome, but they just dont do it for me.

Archangel (September 22, 2006)

Hi Brodave, I'm The Point. I don't think we've met.

Anonymous (September 22, 2006)

To brodave_17... U have a point.... Its like the scene kids who like trivium but hate metallica!!!

i never liked botch, giving the reason why i dont like norma jean...... Ill take dillinger escape plan thank u very much!!

Anonymous (September 22, 2006)

ya fuck this band ... just wanted to point out that LIT is the "band of the moment" ... puuuuuuuuuuuuck rock

brodave_17 (September 22, 2006)

it makes me laugh everytime someone says something like "these guys are totally ripping off botch"...if they sound like botch, and you like botch, their sound cant be the problem...this leads me to believe you wouldnt like botch if more people knew who they were

Anonymous (September 22, 2006)

Dear norma jean,

first u steal botch's riffs.... And ur live show consists of throwing guitars around like a baseball bat..... Im embarressed... Wat kind of band does that!!!!

sign,
josh scogin of the chariot

Anonymous (September 22, 2006)

Man give us our riff back u bastards!!

--botch

Anonymous (September 22, 2006)

Score for review.

Anonymous (September 22, 2006)

God damn, isn't there any music besides hard/metalcore and indie-pop to be reviewed?

rkl (September 22, 2006)

Posted by Anonymous on Friday, September 22, 2006 at 1:51 PM (EDT)

i don't particularly care for norma jean, but i've found a certain double standard when people talk about them. if some band comes along playing really back-to-basics early 80s stuff and ripping off bad brains like there's no tomorrow, people will be like "sick! great old school hc!" but if norma jean rips off botch (which TONS of bands do) people will be like "omg! they're just a botch clone!"


maybe that has something to do with the whole, you know, hardcore thing. whereas with norma jean, its people who are like, "i love hardcore, but fuck metal." i like metal, norma jean is metal, but its very bad metal.

also, the album art is a pretty apt description of how i feel when my friends blare this cd over their shitty stock speakers while im sitting in the backseat.

Archangel (September 22, 2006)

Score is for the review.

Anonymous (September 22, 2006)

i don't particularly care for norma jean, but i've found a certain double standard when people talk about them. if some band comes along playing really back-to-basics early 80s stuff and ripping off bad brains like there's no tomorrow, people will be like "sick! great old school hc!" but if norma jean rips off botch (which TONS of bands do) people will be like "omg! they're just a botch clone!"

tenwestchaser (September 22, 2006)

"I haven't heard this album yet, but Botch is dead (best band ever) and even a band is ripping them off i'll still listen cuz Botch music is the best music. Norma Jean's last cd was fucking gold. And no I don't wear tight pants or pay more than 12 bucks Canadian for my haircut."

I understand where you are coming from, but I just don't agree. Norma Jean is so much more successful (business wise) than Botch ever was which is not fair to Botch since they are being ripped off. Norma Jean has ALWAYS been one of the most over-rated and over-hyped bands I've ever heard in my life. Fuck the new Norma Jean because instead of newcomers getting into Botch (which they should) they are just eating this up and thinking its something new. It's unfair to Botch.

Ianw (September 22, 2006)

This type of music is really boring. I mean I love metal, and I love punk but all these modern Metalcore and "hardcore" bands just all seem to be riding the same breakdown to the grave. blerf.

Beetween the buried and me is preatty sweet though.

SilentStorms (September 22, 2006)

No one needs haircuts! Exactly.

crazytoledo (September 22, 2006)

And no I don't wear tight pants or pay more than 12 bucks Canadian for my haircut.

Not everyone that listens to music like this wears tight pants for one reason or another.

For me it's because I won't wear girl pants and the smallest sized pants in the mens section aren't tight.

Pshh...who really needs haircuts?

SilentStorms (September 22, 2006)

Remember that every band borrows from every other band out there. Unless you made music in the early 1900's. And after the electric guitar. Ah shit i'm digging myself into a hole.

SilentStorms (September 22, 2006)

and even if a band ... sorry for the grammatical error.

SilentStorms (September 22, 2006)

I haven't heard this album yet, but Botch is dead (best band ever) and even a band is ripping them off i'll still listen cuz Botch music is the best music. Norma Jean's last cd was fucking gold. And no I don't wear tight pants or pay more than 12 bucks Canadian for my haircut.

crazytoledo (September 22, 2006)

Thank fuck crazytoledo didnt write this

This album is okay at best, nothing really special, but better than some stuff out there.

elliot (September 22, 2006)

they're still pretty underwhelming, but this review still sucks. "cookie monster vocals" is a term always used when it doesn't warrant using. norma jean never used cookie monster vocals, so it's a stupid criticism in this case.

also they don't seem to be ripping off botch as badly as the last album. again, i don't think this is good, but it's definitley better than o god, for sure.

Anonymous (September 22, 2006)

lol at people who worship jesus. fuck this band.

Anonymous (September 22, 2006)

AGREED, The way this band rips off Botch's We Are The Romans is disgusting and has been disgusting since this band started. Glad someone finally pointed it out in a review.

Anonymous (September 22, 2006)

Thank fuck crazytoledo didnt get to review this....

etwiels88 (September 22, 2006)

The album art is sick

DiscoFucker (September 22, 2006)

"i don't think this band is that bad, really. I havent heard this album, so I can't make a judgment. However, I cannot STAND their fans. They're over the top scenester wannabe hardcore kids who actually have the NERVE to call themselves hardcore. I'm not a meathead kid trying to preach "death to false hardcore" or anything else equally dumb... the fans are all so full of shit that it's not even amusing to poke fun at them anymore. They try WAY too hard to be "artistic" or "dark" but they just look like those white suburban kids who rock the baseball hats tilted to the side and talk ghetto"

Amen, sir. I was at some gathering and somehow the topic of hardcore came up and this kid is like "I LOVE hardcore." I get excited and ask him what bands. He responds" Norma Jean, The Chariot and Undeeroath are some of my favorites." I walk away.

I actually like all of those bands, and really like this album, but this is very far from hardcore. This is the falvor of the week, and will be gone in a few years, if not next year.

Anonymous (September 22, 2006)

http://punknews.org/review/2053

Hmmm...everyone used to love them.

marcusd (September 22, 2006)

what botch riffs did they rip off this time?

Anonymous (September 22, 2006)

I liked what I heard online, I'm still buying this tommorow. They review cam from someone who was already biased and didn't like the band to begin with, surprise surprise on his rating...

Anonymous (September 22, 2006)

i don't think this band is that bad, really. I havent heard this album, so I can't make a judgment. However, I cannot STAND their fans. They're over the top scenester wannabe hardcore kids who actually have the NERVE to call themselves hardcore. I'm not a meathead kid trying to preach "death to false hardcore" or anything else equally dumb... the fans are all so full of shit that it's not even amusing to poke fun at them anymore. They try WAY too hard to be "artistic" or "dark" but they just look like those white suburban kids who rock the baseball hats tilted to the side and talk ghetto

-kliph

istapledmyfoot (September 22, 2006)

I'm not up on my Norma Jean.. what are uber-scene words he's referring to?

Anonymous (September 22, 2006)

We are better at making this type of music.

- The Jesus Velociraptors

Anonymous (September 22, 2006)

this is a horrible review. If you don't like the band at all why write a review about them. At least get someone who is kinda skeptical about the band and thinks this could be the better album or not.

Anonymous (September 22, 2006)

The cover art is cool

Anonymous (September 22, 2006)

well, they do kind of have the right to talk about shotguns being from georgia. it's redneck here ya know. huntin' is all the craze! i liked the luti-kriss album and bless the martyr but i don't like any of the new stuff. it sounds too much like other bands. and i'm bored with their music in general. i have nothing bad to say about them though.

- greyicewater

Anonymous (September 22, 2006)

i like this review. it's funnybecause people at absolutepunk are shitting themselves over how good this album supposedly is.

freesandwich (September 22, 2006)

dudes in girl pants and white belts are stoked

mattp330 (September 22, 2006)

im not real surprised he hated this

BrendanKelly (September 22, 2006)

fuck this band

Scruffy (September 22, 2006)

For a second, I thought that said Corey Branan, and my head broke.

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