If you didn't know this exists, then you don't deserve to own it.

AAA is fucking great

I know SOS has just recentlly re-issued all of Conflicts albums. But I don't see that being greedy or oppertunistic. Go-Kart didn't do a very good job marketing them in the U.S. I could never find thier cd's ( Final Conflict, Final Resolution) in stock or availabe on the internet. Not to mention that they've added some bonus tracks to some of the re-issues.

And Conflict is old, and, considering the number of singles collections, reissues, and live albums they've released, greedy and opportunistic. I don't think they should be considered representative.

Enemy Will - Positive Force was started by members of 7 Seconds in Reno in the early '80's, and they opened up several chapters around the country. Unfortunately, only the DC one still exists. Positive Force is basically a punk-based community service organization, that does lots of things like grocery delivery to low-income seniors, organizes protests and political actions, holds benefit concerts fro various people/organizations, etc. I think that by not becoming too dogmatic (i.e, not holding to any one political idea), Positive Force has avoided self-destruction over its mission. Oh, and I do not drink. I, in fact, consider myself straight edge - not because of some bullshit inner need to follow and do as others do, but because I would rather define myself as antagonistic toward the culture of drinking, drugs, and menaingless sex (high school...) that I'm currently surrounded by than just not part of it.

By solid music, you mean cliche, unintelligent fodder for rich kids to blare in their parents' cars so they can call themselves punk, right? Anti-Flag sucked for most of their career, and have only recently grown into an amazing band. You know, after they grew up, tossed out the trite sloganeering and actually tried to affect real political change.

Uh, trying to make a real political change? By signing to a major label, playing clear channel venues, and reiterating the same point 50 fucking times in one show?

I saw them open for Bad Religion and all they did was preach this one point, for the whole set. Must have not been too good though, I forgot what it was.

To Feeding5000, the last time I saw Conflict it cost me $15! Fucking ridiculous. Anyways, like I said, the type of crusties I've dealt with and the types of crusties you've dealt with may very well be different. I looked up Positive Force (by the way, I've learned it is helpful to avoid using organizational acronyms like PF when discussing said organization in an external forum) and it sounds pretty cool. You should enlighten the rest of us to what it is. Does it soley exist in the DC area? And just out of curiosity, do you drink?

younginfluential - I won't be there the 25th, because I actually have a school project I have to work on. In any case, my AIM is on my profile, so perhaps we could introduce ourselves at some point. How very amusing.

if you already own "Nothing New For Trash Like You" you have all the AAA songs.

if you do not have "Nothing New For Trash Like You" i would say buy that because AAA is fucking good.

the anti-flag songs are pretty useless.

i started working with PF over the summer, i havent been for the past 2 weeks (personal issues) but ill be at the drive on the 25th, will you?

wow...wait, so do i...
uhh, awkward?

To the Scrufster - the amount of detail they put into songs is excessive, but it manages to avoid the greater themes and ideas that these facts relate to. It's like a barrage of information, to the point where it becomes absolutely meaningless.
Enemy Will - "Ha" for your name. I miss Will's/BSD's posts. I think that the crust scene is too concerned with itself and it's appearance to make any change on the outside world. I do, however, think that there are several positive things that come from it. For example, two men were accused of rape at the CLIT fest a few years ago, and the crust scene effectively dealt with the problem. They were ejected, and the scene essentially policed itself. That shows that something moderately countercultural, as opposed to subcultural, can have an impact. As for "dropping out of society"...well, I believe that the only way to truly resist all the BS of society is to avoid it, but unless you're a hermit, there's always some community that you belong to. The Anarcho scene, and the punk scene in general, is just a microcosm of larger society. I hope that I can create something positive through punk rock, although I realize that there are many whose main contribution is spouting tired slogans and berating people who eat meat. I'd like to think that political action can be more than smashing in the windows of the Nike store, and more about truth and equality. There needs to be less eliteism in the scene, and more acceptance, because people who turn to radical politics are doing it precisely because they don't feel accepted by society as it is now. As for the corrupting of the scene - by its nature it will resist, but anywhere there's money to be made, opportunists will come. Eventually, like the majority of punk rock, the anarcho scene will become denatured and prepackaged. You can see it now; Conflict albums on iTunes, anarchy symbols on sweatbands (?) at Hot Topic. I have more disjointed thoughts, but this is a long fucking post.

younginfluential - I volunteer with PF, although I only started like a month ago. I delivered groceries to seniors with Travis Morrison (Dismemberment Plan) last week!

Posted by theyounginfluential on 2007-05-22 20:03:44
My Score:

feeding5000, i am so happy you mentioned those two organizations.
score is for you.

wow i sumbitted this months ago

To feeding5000, "the legitimate anarcho/crust scene is far too insular and dogmatic to either be corrupted or to make any visible change" is an interesting statement to me. Insular and dogmatic are both great words to describe the members of that scene. However, I personally feel that there is not anyone interested in doing the corrupting, not to mention not much to corrupt. As far as "making a visible change", do you mean being changed or effecting change? I'll be the first to admit that my views may be tainted by personal expieriences, but most anarcho/crust "political" actions are trite and arbitrary at best and counteractive to other revolutionary grassroots efforts at worst. This is not to say they aren't well-intentioned, I just feel that they should seriously reevaluate their priorites as we who demand social justice need all the help we can get. Hopping trains and reading Profane Existence just isn't going to cut it, and I sure as hell don't buy this "dropping out of society" shit either.
Also, to me Anti-Flag has always straddled the fence between disgustingly cheesy and charming/endearing despite their gowing vocabulary, so as long as they continue to do less harm than good, who cares?

here's a good alt. media site:

www.rawstory.com

Also, feeding5000, "excessive detail" is the completely definiteive opposite of "superficial".

And old Anti-Flag was written by kids who didn't read the news or pay attention to world events. Some of us don't watch C-SPAN all the time, and I for one, am glad to know about PNAC, something all the newspapers I have read have never gone in-depth about.
The traditional media sucks. We have to create our own. Learning about important political issues through song (or the Daily Show) is no more embarassing than learning about them through a newspaper.

I guess it just comes down to whether you'd rather be able to say "I'm a punk" or "I have changed things for the better."

Anti-Flag is good for kids who don't read the news or pay attention to world events at all, but for those who already do these thing, their songs can get kind of repetitive and have about the same impact as reading month-old Newsweek in the doctor's office. I like their older sound better and prefer Andy's voice over Justin's, but I'll admit their newer stuff is definitely reaching more people. Hell, They even have a song on Madden 07.

Speaking of Andy Wright, someone should really repress the Human Invesment LP. I'm looking at you Profane Existence.

Meant to say that Nofx and Rancid are the co-optation of punk, not hardcore. Well, you get the point.
-feeeding5000

I think the big issue with Anti-Flag can pretty much be summed up in two statements. 1) That the amount of detail they go into is excessive to the point of being superficial. The best political bands open up the listener's conciousness to political ideas without giving them a CNN report. We don't need bands to keep us informed. Plus, songs about specific political issues don't age well. 2)While the band does try to affect real change by working inside the system (which is really the only way to get any incremental changes done), this totally goes against the foundations of the political punk subculture. The entire point is that you can make people's live better by working outside the system, rather than with it, because those that work within become corrupted.
I appreciate what Anti-Flag does (they've given money from their major-label deal to various great organizations, like Positive Force/All Our Power), but it seems as if they are more suited to be either lobbyists or skateboarders than they are political punks. I personally don't like their music, and their lyrics seem heavy-handed to me, but that does not color my opinion of them. Really, they're sort of...subverting the subversive quality of punk. Whereas bands like Hatebreed are the mainstream incorporation of HC, and Rancid/Nofx are the mainstream incorporation of hardcore, Anti-Flag represents a sort of co-optation of anarcho-punk. The legitimate anarcho/crust scene is far too insular and dogmatic to either be corrupted or to make any visible change, so Anti-Flag is sort of the extension of both positive and negative elements. Anti-Flag does achieve more politically than any anarcho punk band (beyond Crass) has, but they have also opened up that scene to corruption. Those are my incredibly rambling 2 cents.
-feeeding5000

I remember when 7 inches used to have more than two songs on them. Nothing twists my nipples like paying $5 for two songs (or, the most heinous of crimes, a song and then the remix as a b-side)

Yeah I agree. While they have some older songs that I enjoy...I think their last two albums have been their best stuff. Musically they're poppier, but overall I think they're much more mature than their previous stuff.

"how on earth is "media corpse" or what ever its called or 1 triilin dollars grown up?"

I'll agree with you that "One Trillion Dollars" is a stupid song. But it is far more mature than their past efforts in that it is referencing actual real political issues rather than making vaguely rebellious statements like "Gonna die for your government".
Also, the song title is "Press Corpse", and obvious play on the press corps and their inability to do what the press is supposed to do: root out the truth. The lyrics to that song are actually very good and something that most bands obsessed with politics weren't talking about.
Also, I defy you to tell me there's anything imature with their work to fight depleted uranium and politically motivated kidnappings overseas, among other things. Did you know as much about the PNAC or economic hitmen before their last album came out? I sure didn't.

both anti-violent and the truth appear on their system doesnt work for you

how on earth is "media corpse" or what ever its called or 1 triilin dollars grown up?

I agree with Scruffy. I just could not get into them until their last two albums came out.

By solid music, you mean cliche, unintelligent fodder for rich kids to blare in their parents' cars so they can call themselves punk, right? Anti-Flag sucked for most of their career, and have only recently grown into an amazing band. You know, after they grew up, tossed out the trite sloganeering and actually tried to affect real political change.

Sometimes I forget that Ant-Flag put out solid music for awhile there. Don't get me wrong I like everything up to Underground Network and I love that they really do try and make change, but I am not a huge fan of their past two albums.

Posted by GlassPipeMurder on 2007-05-22 00:27:01
My Score:

wow. i did not know this existed. definitely will check it out if i can find it on emusic or downloadpunk since i don't own a turntable. thanks for the review!