It's because of the Dark Crusaders.

Do you really believe that?

I'll chalk you up as not having a clue what your talking about

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SumWon (January 4, 2008)

I'll do the same for you.

You aren't the only one that has mentioned this. It sounds completely crazy, but Oprah's endorsement is powerful enough with middle aged women that they will follow her blindly. And seeing how popular her show is, you can imagine how large her viewership is.

I disagree with you. It has nothing to due with my personal beliefs, but I think they're are still plenty of people who would like to see a Christian conservative in the whitehouse. again.

God, I hope you're right about Huckabee.

Capitol Offense is a pretty badass name, until you learn Huckabee's in it

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Adlai_E_Stevenson (January 4, 2008)

And that they play, according to them, "classic rock". Nothing against classic rock, but that's a waste of a perfectly good 80's hardcore name.

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Adlai_E_Stevenson (January 4, 2008)

Oh, wait, they're a cover band? Fuck them so hard.

thats a nice bass, ill take one.

I want to watch Brian Robinson from AWS crush him in a bass off and then say "Oh yeah, and I'm Canadian bitch, suck it."

that documentary sure made my stomach feel uneasy

that was some scary shit

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fallingupwards84 (January 4, 2008)

it was difficult to know whether i should be laughing, or shitting in my pants in fear

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damnitsderek (January 4, 2008)

Can any of you guys post a link for the clip, or doc?

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mcgregor107 (January 4, 2008)

I saw it on google video a few months ago.. here's the whole movie man:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5745767401002835 964&q=Jesus+Camp&total=2007&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plind ex=6

There's one part where a bunch of kids are rambling on about Jesus during some sermon at the camp, and one kid is just balling his eyes out, talking about how hard it is to put some much faith into something/someone that you can't see.. it's fucking really, really disturbing shit.

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jacknife737 (January 4, 2008)

Same here. I thought the scene with the fat Australian guy with the hammer was hysterical, until he got the children to start chanting ' righteous judges", then i went suddenly quite. The same goes when that guy came to talk about abortion (who had a strange almost sociopath vibe about him). Hands down the best laugh came from the old bat who brought in the card board cut up of GW and then started chanting in tongs.

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baseball (January 4, 2008)

you are so right about the abortion guy, there was something seriously disconcerting about his personality

he was wearing that shirt that said "LIFE" in bold letters though, so i'm pretty sure he meant business

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Weber_WK (January 4, 2008)

chanting in tongs?

pasta chefs are stoked.

i saw jesus camp for the first time the other day on the history channel and it was great. those morons are hilarious

I also saw that again the other night. That fat lady is something else.

Gobama? ROLL TIDE!!

You eat pieces of shit for breakfast?

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skasucks76 (January 4, 2008)

:-| ........... NO.......

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fallingupwards84 (January 4, 2008)

haha

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kneel (January 4, 2008)

goddammit you beat me to it.

I set you guys up like that and it takes three whole minutes? For shame.

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baldsteve (January 4, 2008)

Come on dude, I had to eat lunch. I thought 3 minutes was pretty good.

22% voted in 2004. Their vote was just overshadowed because all demographics had more voters that year.

Hillary Clinton is really a robot.

You WANT someone who has been in politics for decades? Why?

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skankbook (January 4, 2008)

It seems to me like Obama was unwillingly thrown into the role of presidential contender the moment he gave the keynote address at the '04 convention. I'm not entirely sure who wants him to be president: himself or his party.

Also, it's only January. He's still got time to prove to me he's a worthy contender. A lot can happen in 11 months.

Do more research.

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Scruffy (January 4, 2008)

I meant about Clinton v. Obama. The more I read about Obama, the more I become convinced he's the only one who could ever bring about anything positive. Heck, he's the only one admitting that the two-party system is inherently flawed!

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Thus_Spoke_Sean (January 4, 2008)

uh, how do you think it is flawed? it was created the way it is to keep the country from reaching extremes on either side. People fail to realise that there is little different between the two party ON PURPOSE. Republicans aren't extreme in their veiws, socialists, however are. thats why have the two pary system.

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jacknife737 (January 4, 2008)

""Republicans aren't extreme in their veiws, socialists"Republicans aren't extreme in their veiws, socialists, however are."

Come on, that is just silly, how is a socialist demanding more welfare reforms, any more 'radical' then a Republican claiming that homosexuality is a choice/sin? A multi-party system (which most other nations have) allows for more points of view to be heard, and presents the greater opportunity for systemic change to occur. That said, if more political parties were introduced in the states I probably would still support the Dems, however, that doesn’t mean I think stifling other points of view is a good thing.

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victim (January 4, 2008)

I'm a communist/socialist and you're quite mistaken about one thing. We ain't lookin' for no reforms. Its time some capitalists learned the meaning of the word 'Extreme' (Prejudice)

Also, Huck won because of his economic populism, a fact that should be obvious. If the Klan couldn't pull together the blue-collar vote in Iowa in the past, what chance could Huck have?

Saying Huck is "George Bush with brains" is a Big Lie

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acris (January 4, 2008)

The two party system happened because of a split of the political spectrum after Washington died. It didn't happen for any reason other than some people agreed more with Hamilton or Jefferson.

And when Bush was elected in 2000, who was more qualified than Cheney and Rumsfeld? Experience didn't translate well there.

First Lady doesnt count as "experience"

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Cheesetits (January 4, 2008)

Someone needs to say that while backhanding Hillary.

thats actually the reason why i like him. I feel like that speed of the world is continualy increasing, so why should we keep electing old people? I want someone who has SOME SORT of grasp on reality.

honestly, it's kind of like the RIAA, i mean they are so seriously behind the times and they don't even know it, i want a young president.

Abraham Lincoln had zero national experience, and he turned out to be a pretty good President.

I find it funny that originally a good presidential quality was to have little experience, as to avoid having to deal with a bad political record. Obama will be fine.

Hillary is more qualified to do what exactly?

The current administration had plenty of people with "experience."

Ron Paul? Wrong.

Infact, why don't you say Kucinich is too?

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victim (January 4, 2008)

Dennis Kucinich is a corporate fool

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ibitchslappedyourmama (January 4, 2008)

fool or tool?

and dont forget, a racists!

For some reason, the Iowa caucuses remind me of the Shirley Jackson story "The Lottery."

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returnofdebs (January 4, 2008)

except creepier.

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baldsteve (January 4, 2008)

I can think of people I'd like to hit with rocks.

And you know, the last 5 out of 7 Dems who won the Iowa Caucas went on to win their party's nomination.

He'll demand you take the u out of color.

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StuckInBielers (January 4, 2008)

It took me ages to find the Parts and Labor myspace cos i kept putting a u in it! When you were copying all our bands you could have at least done the decent thing and copied our spelling too! :)

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Cheesetits (January 4, 2008)

Cute. And....true.....dammit.....

he's really conservative on social issues, but fairly moderate when it comes to economics and immigration.

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StuckInBielers (January 4, 2008)

Can you get anymore conservative when it comes to American social issues?! I was in Philadelphia a few years ago, my sister was studying at the uni there and was helping out painting this mural in one of the 'ghettos' if thats an appropriate term. Anyways i just remember standing in the street looking at houses that if i didn't know any better were deralict, then if i turned my head ninety degrees and looked to the end of the street i could see part of the uni campus, it was totally spotless with an escalator in the uni shop. I say uni shop, its looks more like a department store. Sorry, just thought i'd give my anecdotal view of American society. i.e. its fucked.

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Banal242 (January 4, 2008)

Syria is pretty conservative.

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StuckInBielers (January 4, 2008)

Guys seriously i was not trying to be zenaphobic or compete at all, there's no need to be defensive! You wanna talk about Britain? Fantastic, i'm fucking chuffed you actually think about these things at all. I was just trying to have a minor political discussion.

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Banal242 (January 4, 2008)

I was pretty much joking. But I still don't appreciate you saying my country is "fucked." I mean, you saw Philly. Just from the stolen van stories on Punknews you should know that that place isn't the norm.

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StuckInBielers (January 4, 2008)

But it is fucked. So's mine.I thought that was a given.

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fallingupwards84 (January 4, 2008)

well i was in London this summer, and on every street corner, i saw four or five cameras watching me. so you guys have us beat in the "fucked" department

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PersonalResponsibility (January 4, 2008)

But there are no homeless people or any violence in London.

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fallingupwards84 (January 4, 2008)

bullshit there aren't. but i sense the sarcasm in your post

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StuckInBielers (January 4, 2008)

Dunno mate, we have a health service. Just.

I think Leeds is the most watched city in the UK.

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fallingupwards84 (January 4, 2008)

as much as i want universal health care, i'd rather live in a free society without universal health care than a 1984 State with universal health care

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StuckInBielers (January 4, 2008)

1984? Thats quite an exageration. But while we're on the theme: the omniscient element of the party is only one aspect of what makes the book a scary peice of writing. Right now both the UK and the US have a culture of ignorance is bliss as well as war is peace. As i said in a post before, this isn't about US v UK, its just the subject of the newspeice was on US politics, if it was about Gordan Brown i'd have said something like 'a million people marched on london and we went to war blah blah' or something like that.

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victim (January 4, 2008)

Its a cliched point now, but what you're saying is we live in Brave New World not 1984

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StuckInBielers (January 4, 2008)

Take note: "Thats quite an exageration. But while we're on the theme"

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jacknife737 (January 4, 2008)

you seriously comparing modern day England to the Orwell book?

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fallingupwards84 (January 4, 2008)

its not there yet, but it is certainly headed in that direction. visit London - cameras are EVERYWHERE, they follow people around, are abused on a regular basis, hell they even move around

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acris (January 4, 2008)

London barely compares to the society of 1984.

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StuckInBielers (January 4, 2008)

Soz posted in wrong place.

take note: "Thats quite an exageration. But while we're on the theme"

Well he's sexist, homophobic, believes in Young Earth creationism, is anti-science, and basically is the typical right wing religious nutjob who plans on turning America into a theocracy.

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acris (January 5, 2008)

Oh wow. I dislike him even more.

haha nice

just put his wife at the podium and feed the responses

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baldsteve (January 4, 2008)

Ehhhh, you ever seen her in person? Not so great, but compared to his elfish good-looks she appears to be a supermodel.

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baseball (January 4, 2008)

i bet more people would get behind her though

if you know what i mean

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fallingupwards84 (January 4, 2008)

she's absolutely gorgeous

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baldsteve (January 4, 2008)

It may be your opinion. I'm not knocking that, but people act like she is a Goddess or something. I've been right next to her, she's a fine looking lady, but I wouldn't say gorgeous.

I feel like Kucinich's only real problem (besides being way, way, way liberal, and I'll admit that), is the fact that he can't pay the media to pay attention to him.

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acris (January 4, 2008)

Yep.

I'm all about supporting liberal candidates, but Kucinich is way too nationalist/isolationist with his trade policies and his extensive promotion on agricultural subsidies is horrifying.

I just saw the video on CNN and Chuck Norris is in the back.

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punkbytheounce (January 4, 2008)

His teeth are so bright!

Are you sure about that? I don't care that much one way or another but I heard Paul beat Giuliani

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KeithyBoBeefy (January 4, 2008)

I believe Giluani came in 4th, and Paul 5th.

Huckabee
Romney
Thompson
Giluani
Paul

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fallingupwards84 (January 4, 2008)

wrong, Paul more than doubled what Giuliani got

My guess is that he won't carry NH in the primary.

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Torgo (January 4, 2008)

True, Romney has more weight over there. I'm just surprised Huck won with a hefty percentage in Iowa, I thought he would come in second to Mitt.

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fallingupwards84 (January 4, 2008)

i dont know, i think McCain will win New Hampshire. if that is the case, Mitt is done, because he wouldnt stand a chance in SC with all the evangelicals

For a Conservative Christian, he's not the worst. He seemingly isn't just exploiting his base like the rest of the CCs, and his economic policy is better than a lot of Republicans.

Still, I don't really want him to be elected.

or you could just shut up.

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fallingupwards84 (January 4, 2008)

have a sense of humor for once

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StuckInBielers (January 4, 2008)

Sorry. I'll call Matt Stone and Trey Parker, Matt Groening, the guys on Have i Got News for You, John Stewart, the guys at Private Eye and every other individual or group that helps us get through the fact that your political system is utterly regressive and probably gonna kill us all and tell them 'No more political comic relief, please. Only take it seriously from now on. Thanks!'

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returnofdebs (January 4, 2008)

touche.

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baldsteve (January 4, 2008)

I don't mind your humor, keep it going buddy.

Plus it gives me a warm feeling inside knowing my country has enough nukes to kill the world 3 times and then blow up Canada just for good measure.

remember when Ron Paul called him out on foregin policy during one of the early debates and Rudy just got flustered and started mumbling 9/11 over and over again?

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fallingupwards84 (January 4, 2008)

haha that was great. one of the highlights of the campaign season

I'm no fan of Giuliani, but he never stepped foot in Iowa. He skipped it...so those numbers don't really count.

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batattack8 (January 4, 2008)

He had campaign people there working for him and trying to spread his word, and I know that he did in fact step foot in Iowa at least once for a couple hours. He's just not conservative enough for Iowans. He's big city folk. He would have failed there regardless of how much time he spent on it.

it is interesting, but actually expected here. Ron Paul and his "Liberty PAC" pumped a ton of money into Iowa, and Giuliani all but ignored it. Giuliani skipped the straw poll, campaigned zilch, and barely ran an ad. Giuliani's performance in Iowa is said not to be indicative of nationwide preferences.

I should have noted I meant in Iowa

The Giuliani camp skipped Iowa. Still, the Paul numbers were impressive, but that's what i was expecting him to get. 5th place is nothing to brag about however.

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fallingupwards84 (January 4, 2008)

he was only three percentage points from being 3rd however, and Iowa wasnt really his state. he has much more support in New Hampshire

Obama seems like the only Democrat that's fired up. I see the passion in his eyes; I admire that. Maybe this is like when JFK would make speeches.

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baldsteve (January 4, 2008)

You have no idea. I work here in DC, everytime Obama speaks, people freak out, people try to touch him like he's a rockstar.

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acris (January 4, 2008)

It was the same when he won the race for Senate. People were so stoked on him, and he won by a landslide. A lot of it, however, was due to the fact that the current leading Republican in the race got caught up in a scandal (domestic abuse). Either way, 70% of the vote is fucking awesome.

Then there was the speech he gave at the 2004 Dem. Convention. That made people love him even more.

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baldsteve (January 4, 2008)

I was at the Dem Convention too. I'm telling you, It's no different than watching people go ape shit over Bono walking through a hallway, it's totally different than your normal stargazers and politicians. I've seen people sit in on speeches by him given to Boy Scouts just to hear him talk... that paragraph was a grammatical nightmare...

Wow, you just used OBAMA and GANGSTA in the same paragraph.

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horcruxes (January 4, 2008)

he's got my vote!
always wanted a gansta 4 prez

i think you're giving him a little too much credit... he's still a politician

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baseball (January 4, 2008)

a politician that has consistently voted for tougher drug laws, ones that particuarly target black youths

yet he almost braggs about how he's overcome his own youthful indescretions with drugs to get where he's at

so Mr. Obama maybe you can explain to me why it's okay for some young African Americans to lose their financial aid or go to jail and while others like yourself get to grow up and run for President?

but hey, at least he's tough on "crime"

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fallingupwards84 (January 4, 2008)

its really really hard for me to support any candidate who supports the War On Drugs; in a perfect world we would see a general election between Kucinich and Paul. can you imagine how intelligent the debates would be? it'd be incredible, so many great ideas would be thrown around... but no, we live in a world that accepts the status quo. oh well. i'll end up voting for Obama over Huckabee.

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baseball (January 4, 2008)

overall i think Obama is a reasonable choice, but it irks me that he's the perfect guy to take a stand on something like the War on Drugs, yet he doesn't because it's not a well accepted political issue

i would love to see Obama stand up and get angry over the fact that the US under the drug war incarcerates black males at a higher rate that South Africa under Apartheid

how anyone when presented with a statistic like that can support the drug war boggles my mind.....shouldn't we be looking a little closer at social policy with that effect? makes my head explode

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24HourPriapism (January 4, 2008)

it doesn't strike me that obama's type of guy who would fall victim to the "bill cosby" syndrome where he sees black people as their own worst enemy....there's gotta be some other rationale for his "toughness" on drug-related crime.

i mean, honestly i don't expect anybody in the mainstream political arena (aside from the arguable exception of nader) who'd take a legalization standpoint. but obama seems like he'd at least take a "less criminalization of users" standpoint. i mean hell, he admitted to experimenting with cocaine during college in his memoirs.

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baseball (January 4, 2008)
the rationale is that "toughness on crime" garners votes...i imagine his rationale is that he's worried about winning and you don't win by "supporting a bunch of potheads" as i'm sure the republican candidate would fire back with if he took any kind of stance...and that's a shame

but he's not taking a "less criminalization of users" standpoint, he's doing quite the opposite and his voting record shows it

plain and simple, he's a hyprocite on this topic

honestly, i don't think he's a bad guy...but you know the old saying, "if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem"

it's just hard to take him seriously when he talks about reducing poverty or bringing the class lines closer when he's voting for stricter drug laws...since our system of "punish the drug user" rather than "rehabilitate the drug user" contributes so much

show rest of commentthe rationale is that "toughness on crime" garners votes...i imagine his rationale is that he's worried about winning and you don't win by "supporting a bunch of potheads" as i'm sure the republican candidate would fire back with if he took any kind of stance...and that's a shame

but he's not taking a "less criminalization of users" standpoint, he's doing quite the opposite and his voting record shows it

plain and simple, he's a hyprocite on this topic

honestly, i don't think he's a bad guy...but you know the old saying, "if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem"

it's just hard to take him seriously when he talks about reducing poverty or bringing the class lines closer when he's voting for stricter drug laws...since our system of "punish the drug user" rather than "rehabilitate the drug user" contributes so much to these social problems

that being said, he has said he does not support federal raids of medical marijuana dispensaries and he has mentioned the unjustness of crack/cocaine sentencing so that's a start...i don't think things will get worse if he's elected and i believe that once he actually had the power he might be more open to talking about it

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fallingupwards84 (January 4, 2008)

Obama advocating an end to the war would be political suicide

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victim (January 4, 2008)
You're nuts. The debate between Paul and Kucinich would sound intelligent to

1. California mystics and other noveau riche who think Hindus and Buddhists are best pals and talk about "Eastern spiritualism" and "Native American spiritualism" like there's any such generic

2. People who consider A Road To Serfdom as some kind of Bible (ie people who haven't it read, have no idea of what its a polemic against, etc). Also people who call the old MFer "Uncle Milty"

3. "Libertarian liberals" (remind you of anyone?). You've never read A Road To Serfdom but thats just your liberal cred showing through -- keyboard commandos who never do their homework or assume any personal risk..remind you of anyone (hey! thats you!)?

4. Everyone who worships "democracy" as though its some kind of secular theology (which, admittedly is a large

show rest of commentYou're nuts. The debate between Paul and Kucinich would sound intelligent to

1. California mystics and other noveau riche who think Hindus and Buddhists are best pals and talk about "Eastern spiritualism" and "Native American spiritualism" like there's any such generic

2. People who consider A Road To Serfdom as some kind of Bible (ie people who haven't it read, have no idea of what its a polemic against, etc). Also people who call the old MFer "Uncle Milty"

3. "Libertarian liberals" (remind you of anyone?). You've never read A Road To Serfdom but thats just your liberal cred showing through -- keyboard commandos who never do their homework or assume any personal risk..remind you of anyone (hey! thats you!)?

4. Everyone who worships "democracy" as though its some kind of secular theology (which, admittedly is a large group)

I agree that all the other candidates are turd logs bobbing in the shit trough, but don't think Paul or Kucinich aren't
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fallingupwards84 (January 4, 2008)

do you like ANY political ideology? you hate the mainstream Democrats, you hate the mainstream Republicans, you hate the moderates, you hate the socialists, you hate the libertarians

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victim (January 4, 2008)
I don't hate socialists. Now, granted most Western socialists are campus-based wonks or Trotskyite revisionist idiots.

"Hate" isn't the right term because for the most part its nothing personal. I do hate the appendages of my oppressor though -- which politicians are certainly one aspect of.

I'm a Marxist-Leninist Communist. There's really nothing going on today that the Masters didn't cover. Hell, guys writing before them (or at the same time but without any cross pollinization) answer 90% of our questions today. We're almost back to square one. And going backwards because so much is being lost, has been lost, intellectually.

I don't right off trust everybody claiming to be ML either, because alot of people throw Marx into every sentence -- but they might as well substitute the word "ovaltine" for all the difference it would make.
<

show rest of commentI don't hate socialists. Now, granted most Western socialists are campus-based wonks or Trotskyite revisionist idiots.

"Hate" isn't the right term because for the most part its nothing personal. I do hate the appendages of my oppressor though -- which politicians are certainly one aspect of.

I'm a Marxist-Leninist Communist. There's really nothing going on today that the Masters didn't cover. Hell, guys writing before them (or at the same time but without any cross pollinization) answer 90% of our questions today. We're almost back to square one. And going backwards because so much is being lost, has been lost, intellectually.

I don't right off trust everybody claiming to be ML either, because alot of people throw Marx into every sentence -- but they might as well substitute the word "ovaltine" for all the difference it would make.

Libertarians are bizarro Communists by the way. Sure they dress in "freedom, liberty, individuality" drag, but all they really do is take every socialist line and proclaim the opposite no matter how non-sensical or diabolical.