I think it of it as like two really annoying people who break up and get back together all the time. When they're together, at least they're not bothering anyone else too much and not spending their time trashing the other loudly in public, which is really annoying.

put some bacon on it and its a shit club

From what I've heard, hundreds of thousands, maybe even in the sevem figure range.

Have you seen Tony Brummel? Victory is definitely an abusive husband.

depends on what state you live in.

in massachusetts, where gay marriage is allowed, yes.

but in alabama, victory is just your big, angry, gay boyfriend.

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Dante3000 (rich) (April 8, 2008)
This is true. The thing I've heard over and over about Victory is that it over promotes artists. At a certain point all the ads in the world wont sell any more CD's but it's not about selling CD's but rather the Victory Brand. It's been said that they've literally had to create ways to spend money and advertise just to spend artist royalties. This is the issue, Victory is label first, music second, bands a distant third.

Sure lots of artists become popular and tour to fairly large crowds dude to Victory's promotion but it doesn't matter if you sell 500,000 albums and don't see a single dime of the money.
I'm guessing the band got weary of the never ending legal battle that was going to be funded (on Victory's side) by their own album revenues. Easier just to fulfill contractual obligations.
But this is purely the view of an outsider who has n

show rest of commentThis is true. The thing I've heard over and over about Victory is that it over promotes artists. At a certain point all the ads in the world wont sell any more CD's but it's not about selling CD's but rather the Victory Brand. It's been said that they've literally had to create ways to spend money and advertise just to spend artist royalties. This is the issue, Victory is label first, music second, bands a distant third.

Sure lots of artists become popular and tour to fairly large crowds dude to Victory's promotion but it doesn't matter if you sell 500,000 albums and don't see a single dime of the money.
I'm guessing the band got weary of the never ending legal battle that was going to be funded (on Victory's side) by their own album revenues. Easier just to fulfill contractual obligations.
But this is purely the view of an outsider who has never (ever) dealt with Victory.
-Dante
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I_Rock_Hard (April 8, 2008)

Most groups sell 500,000 records and don't get a dime you fucking idiot. TLC sold TEN MILLION RECORDS and got 50,000 each. The money is in the shows. Anybody with half a brain would know that.

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Dante3000 (rich) (April 9, 2008)
Oh good. I'll be sure to tell that to Propagandhi who never sold that much and yet were getting $50,000 in two pay cycles.
Who uses TLC as an example? You know they didn't own any of the publishing to any of their songs and are used as a classic example of a band who didn't pay attention, signed a stupid contract and got screwed legally? So yeah, TLC got $50,000 a piece because they got screwed in a shitty contract. So let's use them as a the meter stick as what all bands should expect.
I've spoken with a lot of smaller artists and many of them manage to make some money off of what they do. According to Mike, of the Riverboat Gamblers, the rest of the band makes a living (merger perhaps) off of music (interview here: http://www.soundscenerevolution.com/index.php?id=64),

show rest of commentOh good. I'll be sure to tell that to Propagandhi who never sold that much and yet were getting $50,000 in two pay cycles.
Who uses TLC as an example? You know they didn't own any of the publishing to any of their songs and are used as a classic example of a band who didn't pay attention, signed a stupid contract and got screwed legally? So yeah, TLC got $50,000 a piece because they got screwed in a shitty contract. So let's use them as a the meter stick as what all bands should expect.
I've spoken with a lot of smaller artists and many of them manage to make some money off of what they do. According to Mike, of the Riverboat Gamblers, the rest of the band makes a living (merger perhaps) off of music (interview here: http://www.soundscenerevolution.com/index.php?id=64), and I'm pretty sure they've never sold a million albums.
If Victory flies the indie flag so high (and they do) they should never ever use the, "we only treat our artists the way major labels do, what's wrong with that?" excuse. Everyone knows major labels screw artists. If you're an indie label that claims to be against that, why would you utilize the exact same practices of a business you claim to oppose.
-Dante

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minorkaty (katy) (April 8, 2008)

Exactly my thoughts.

yes. think ike turner

haha nice analogy

haha great analogy

Wow, how old is that thing. I think we can stop dragging out that link every time some label gets in a fight with some band about a contract.

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MattRamone (April 8, 2008)

Agreed. I think he makes some good points, and I would love to see an updated version, but I think it's time to let it rest.

I've actually never seen that, which is fucking scary in general, but especially for someone in my position.

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LookingForCorpses (April 9, 2008)

It's been around for a LONG time and is usually sited just about everywhere anytime something like this comes up.

I think it's "vipers" or "uppers."

sounds like 'vipers' to me.

According to the official lyrics on the inside of the album, it's "vipers".

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baldsteve (April 8, 2008)

Whooohooo!

I'm at work or I would have looked that shit up myself. Thanks Craig!

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Craig-TheRebelCounty (April 8, 2008)

Any time buddy! That was one of the first things I looked up when I got the EP cause I had listened to that song so many times before that, but was never sure of what he said. So I'm glad to help out! Fucking work and school... always keeping us from doing what we want haha

Streetlight Manifesto?

Or whoever was going to put out their album decided it wasn't worth the headache for a band that's main wave of mainstream popularity is over and told them to get lost. I've got nothing against those guys but they're not worth getting in a big, expensive legal battle over.

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Ghost_of_D_Boon (April 8, 2008)

They couldn't even RECORD a new album until all of the legal issues out of the way, so your theory doesn't make much sense.

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MattRamone (April 8, 2008)

And thus haven't been in the news (barring that guy's death) or had a hit song in that amoutn of time. For a genre that's petering out, that's forever.

By the time the label would have gotten them out of court, their moment would have passed and they would probably not have sold even 100,000 copies, chump change by major label standards.

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red_eye_inc (April 8, 2008)

That's exactly what I'm saying, my original point still makes sense

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MattRamone (April 8, 2008)

Oh, I agree with you completely.

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LookingForCorpses (April 8, 2008)

Actually, you are wrong. They were signing with hollywood, I believe. And the new label basically thought the battle wasn't worth fighting.

That's probably completely the opposite of what happened. HH never had any ground to stand on, and clearly never understood the deal they'd signed way back when. I'm far from a Victory supporter, but HH were definitely a bunch of brats that didn't know what they were doing with their "careers." They were treated like the major label band they thought they were. They got radio play, MTV play, commercials and all that. That doesn't come cheap. They complained about not seeing royalties after a million records? That's not uncommon at a major, and Victory was acting like a major. I'm sure they finally realized after tons of litigation and lawyer speak that they were truly and totally fucked.

Probably nothing at all.

Amen brother, my sentiments exactly.

They should have released another record right away, and been through with Victory. So many indie bands try to jump to a major right away, and the indie they were on rightfully, stalls their move.