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Geoff Rickly talks about political apathy, Refused, United Nations

Posted by aubin on Tuesday, September 9, 2008 at 12:00 PM (EDT)

In a very academic sounding blog entry for Headbanger's Ball, Thursday/United Nations vocalist Geoff Rickley lays out his criticism for the modern "hipster" and underground cultures and their acknowledged apathy towards politics and rebellion:

Various groups, including The Nation of Ulysses and Refused made a study of the aesthetic of revolution, and so did many underground artists such as Sheperd Fairey and Banksy. These artists explored the links between advertising, propagandizing, evangelism and philosophy. As a subtle and complex exploration of art, commerce and humanity these artists were very successful. Unfortunately, this may have been an important turning point in our culture - the point at which the image replaced the message.

Over the course of the article, Geoff talks about everyone from Fugazi to Megadeth to Marshall McLuhan and how this all fits into the " self-obsessed aesthetic vacuum" of the modern underground. You can check out the thoughtful article here.

News (211 comments)

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Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way. Seriously.

sXenester (September 9, 2008)

you'll have to speak up, i'm wearing a towel

8+ Replies

kokoro (September 9, 2008)

batmans a scientist?

IDontHaveAnAccountYet (September 9, 2008)

Trying is the first step to failure.

Duffers (September 9, 2008)

We're already in a state of failure. He is trying to say that we now have to rise above it.

24HourPriapism (September 9, 2008)

well now that you're a little older, i can tell you that's a CROCK. no matter how good you are at something, there's always going to be somebody bigger, stronger, or faster than you.

ah, gotcha. can't win, don't try.

I-type-poorly (September 9, 2008)

He came to life... good for him.

baldsteve (September 9, 2008)

Did that boy just say 'what's a battle'?

24HourPriapism (September 9, 2008)

you really do know monks don't you.

'ey pally.....do us all a favor, invent yaself some undah pants!

sXenester (September 9, 2008)

fuck, i love monks. ask him about the fnx dude that ate 19 krispy kremes in one sitting. or the time i ate guinness battered onion rings the whole way back from new hampshire

IReviewMusic (September 9, 2008)

now, i cant be troubled to read this spew, but if im reading your paraphrase right, he insinuates that fugazi is part of a self-obsessed aesthetic vacuum?

uhhh

2+ Replies

IReviewMusic (September 9, 2008)

nevermind. read said spew. it sucked, but it indeed did not lampoon fugazi

Thus_Spoke_Sean (September 9, 2008)

i actually thought it was pretty good.

baldsteve (September 9, 2008)

Walking around Georgetown this past sunday, a HUGE fat dude with a ponytail walked past me wearing a 'Refused are fuckind Dead' t-shirt.

It was awesome.

5+ Replies

IReviewMusic (September 9, 2008)

what would one possibly want in georgetown? jinxproof, i guess, but even they rip you off unless they know you.

baldsteve (September 9, 2008)

They know me, I had to change my appointment in October.

IReviewMusic (September 9, 2008)

i used to get tattoos there and i just saw them screw one too many non-regulars, so i switched it up to NY Adorned.

i've since seen the NY Adorned people screw just as many non-regulars just as hard.

baldsteve (September 9, 2008)

I like Susan that's there, if she ever leaves I'll follow her. She's sweet and gentle and makes me laugh (probably not the best thing to do when you are getting drawn on)

IReviewMusic (September 9, 2008)

totally sexist, but i think women always tend to have the softer touch. i'm with virginia elwood in NY and she's totally lighthanded too

Thus_Spoke_Sean (September 9, 2008)

I actullay want susan to do my chest, but i hear she's not even taking new appointments right now.

baldsteve (September 9, 2008)

No way, you can get in.

xrebelheartsx (September 9, 2008)

harmony cafe, quick pita, uhm... that's about it.

kneel (September 9, 2008)

i went to harmony cafe last sunday. it seems to have gone downhill some.

kneel (September 9, 2008)

i have that shirt.

in neil-size

baldsteve (September 9, 2008)

If you grow a ponytail expect a visit to your house, and for said visit to end with bloodshed.

veganboyjosh (September 9, 2008)

didn't rtfa, but i could see what he's talking about.

i wouldn't get so up in arms about it, tho. i'd just make up a tshirt design about the issue and call it good.

SydBarrett420 (September 9, 2008)

Too bad this asshole probably thinks the left/right paradigm is legitimate.

Tell me again how in a country o f millions the most qualified person for Prez. always comes from two ideologies that offer us up 5 people every 4 years from their party to run.

6+ Replies

InternetTroll (September 9, 2008)

I've never understood that either.

eran_zombis (September 9, 2008)

They're called "big tent" parties that consist of people with different beliefs but elect a moderate candidate to garner the support of the "median voter." The two-party system owes a lot to the winner-take-all system, among reasons.

RRK (September 9, 2008)

Hooray for mass generalizations! Hooray for uninformed dribble! Hooray for shoving your shit covered foot in your mouth!

If you knew anything about Rickly, you might be able to surmise that it doesn't matter what the fuck his personal politics are. He's more interested in fostering social consciousness, no matter the manifestation. And if you had read the article in full, you might have seen that he invites anyone interested to engage him in discourse so that he may respond. You'd probably receive a rather informed answer, too.

But that's not what you want, is it? You want a one sided dialogue in which you deconstruct someone else, because you don't have the capacity to: (a) discuss a topic civilly, (b) use facts, empirical evidence, or thought experiments to support your claims, (c) put yourself in a situation in which the outcome may not be what you intended.

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usversusthem (September 9, 2008)

Bla bla bla. I'm so excited at times like these to live in Canada. I feel like the Green Party could actually get a seat or two in the election this October... To say nothing of the NDP. Harper may have fucked us but good for art's sake but I'm pretty confident we're going to get rid of him next month. It's a feeling that leaves one (dare I say it?) almost wanting to be ... patriotic! (shock, awe, etc.)

jacknife737 (September 9, 2008)

I’d take the Green party more seriously if I didn’t dislike Elizabeth May so much. But more power to them if they can siphon off conservative votes.

kidgotham (September 10, 2008)

I agree. I used to be a member of the party, but she is far too conservative socially for me to like her. I honestly don't know who I am going to vote for next month. I am not a huge fan of Layton either. I wish Olivia Chow was the leader of the NDP.
I am going to have to take a long look at their platforms and go from there.

fallingupwards84 (September 9, 2008)

i agree, i get sick of the left/right paradigm so much

SydBarrett420 (September 9, 2008)

Go watch "Salo" and then we'll talk Geoff Rickly

3+ Replies

IReviewMusic (September 9, 2008)

you want him to watch a near-unbearable film about the death of human eros?

baldsteve (September 9, 2008)

You should change your handle to IReviewFilms.

SydBarrett420 (September 9, 2008)

Salo is a good flick, you just have to read up on it first and realize the context in which it is filmed.

I recently got a friend to watch Audition, Happiness, and Salo all in one night, needless to say he was a lil depressed the next day.

FatTony (September 9, 2008)

You must hate your friends!

the_other_scott (September 9, 2008)

Adbusters is fucking garbage, but that hipster article had some valid points.

Ultimately, there is no underground, no counter-culture, no uniqueness.

I blame the internet. Scenes, looks, sounds, beliefs spread so quickly that they get watered down and mashed up in awful ways.

12+ Replies

SydBarrett420 (September 9, 2008)

Thats what happens when you predicate your life on being hip or ahead of the scene. Ignoring trends and doing what you like is a much more liberating feeling than hating the t-shirt you bought two months ago because Hot Topic got the same shirt in it's latest shipment.

the_other_scott (September 9, 2008)

right, but when you ignore trends and do what you like, and then 6 months later everybody and their mother is doing what you were doing its pretty much the same thing. after a while you get frustrated.

a year or two from now, most of the people on this board will feel silly walking around in a gaslight anthem t-shirt

baldsteve (September 9, 2008)

I disagree. If you love something, support it. I still have my Kerplunk! tour Green Day shirt, it's beat to fuck but I still wear it on occasion. I'm not going to stop wearing it because douchebags like them.

the_other_scott (September 9, 2008)

i agree that if you love something you should support it. but again, we're a small sampling of people.

you're also talking about two different things. your'e talking about your kerplunk t-shirt - filled with holes and history and "punk" credibility. you're talking about a band that's been around for twenty years and has earned critical praise and has a fan base raning from 13-40

a year from now the gaslight anthem's average fan will be 16 year old kids.

baldsteve (September 9, 2008)

Yeah, I see what you are saying, but I'm an asshole and will continue wearing what I always do.

I'm not really the target of your diatribe, so I concede.

SydBarrett420 (September 9, 2008)

If it upsets you to the point where you can't wear it anymore, you are still following trends. You still will be switching your clothes because someone else has cuaght up to your trend. Wear whatever you like regardless of what anyone else thinks or says or wears.

I don't know anyone in the punk community who gets laid because of the label on the back of their shirt anyways. Jeans and a t-shirt never go out of style.

the_other_scott (September 9, 2008)

i guess so. maybe there's just been too many things in my life that i've been really into that have been co-opted by popular culture. if that means that i'm following trends, then so be it, but its frustrating either way.

it could also really depend on where you live. i've spent 97% of my life in LA and NYC where these things take on a life of their own.

Banal242 (September 9, 2008)

By watered down and mashed up you mean you can't be selfish with the music anymore.

Oh noes, too many people like what I like. I blame the Internet for informing them.

Who fucking cares?

the_other_scott (September 9, 2008)

no. i mean that before the internet for something to move from underground to mainstream it usually came through in a grassroots type of movement. people liked it and told their friends and they did something similar but different. with the internet, people see a band on myspace and six months later they're trying to figure out how to be that band but more commercially successful.

IReviewMusic (September 9, 2008)

30 years ago called, they want their critique of aging hippies and the lessons that the free love period taught smart advertising executives back.

the_other_scott (September 9, 2008)

i never said it was an original critique. but things move much faster with the internet than they did in the 60s and 70s. people don't take the time to understand what they are promoting and showcasing.

jamespastepunk (September 9, 2008)

"Ultimately there is no underground, no counter-culture, no uniqueness."

I disagree with that statement in the strongest terms I can muster.

RRK (September 9, 2008)

On what basis do you disagree? I see that whenever a 'counterculture' develops, it is quickly co-opted into a marketing force. My opinion is that 'counterculture' is now a culture in the very literal (biological) sense of the word, for which society stimulates consumer/lemming based tendencies in its subjects. The only true, unaffected example of counterculture that I can think of (off the top of my head), is that of "Capital 'D'" deaf culture.

jamespastepunk (September 9, 2008)

I disagree on the basis of that there's a huge distinction in my mind between the Wait In Vain/the Effort/Hostage Calm concert at the Galaxie and the, let's say Mest at the Metro or House of Blues.

The two aren't the same. At all, and I don't see that co-opted by Sears or whatever other retailer that's fashionable to be railing against currently.

And on a related note, I'd rather be doing something that would work towards a good goal and might not be true or unaffected by corporations than not doing anything at all.

canaandrumzz (September 9, 2008)

I think we're (here at the org,despite the fact we're on the internet) are a good example of "counter-culture" our view of art and aesthetics and what matters in music is generally a 180 from what's popular. Granted we aren't doing anything revolutionary in the sense that he's talking about but in a lot ways there are still communities that exist and make their own rules regardless of the status quo.

the_other_scott (September 9, 2008)

if you think that the gaslight anthem, the lawrence arms or the loved ones are that dramatically different (at least musically) from what's popular then you need to listen to more music.

Yes, there are still communities that exist and make their own rules regardless of the status quo. And then they make a myspace page. And kids all over the country here their bands, or see their oufits and co-opt it for themselves.

canaandrumzz (September 9, 2008)

I don't think they're dramatically different in terms of what they sound like but I do think those artists are ones who create on their own terms despite whats popular. To me at least, being honest weighs more heavily than sounding dramatically unique. Besides, real honesty is so hard to find these days (even in punk) that it stands out as unique. In the end I think as long as people stick to what they want to do then people will recognize their authenticity. And I'm glad that communities have gone online, they've helped me as a kid growing up in BFE, it helped me learn that there are people out there who are like me but are proud of it and unafraid to be who they are. So yes, I may have co-opted it but I think as I've gotten older I've began to understand why they do what they do and I'll decide for myself if I want to follow along. Just my .02

Tudor (September 9, 2008)

How is ad busters fucking garbage? is it now cool to oppose those who oppose?

usversusthem (September 9, 2008)

I think most people who think Adbusters is fucking garbage view them as hypocrites because they're an actual magazine/in business. I say whatever flaws Adbusters may have, we are so much better off with them on our newsstands. Just having something like that, that anyone could pick up on a whim and start flipping through, which is such an ideological and often aesthetic kick to the brain... it's wonderful.

Tudor (September 9, 2008)

Yeah but they're greatly aware of the fact and have ZERO advertising within the magazine. I mean we make political compromises every day than feel so fucking smart when we call out people like ad busters as "hypocrites", it's so painfully stupid.

Its literally become the new trend to hate on rebellion, as if conformity and shooting down anything idealistic has become the new "punk".

JayTee (September 9, 2008)

I call the big one Bitey.

1+ Reply

ConsumedByMusic (September 9, 2008)

One of my all time favorite lines is in that episode:

What if the track should bend?
Not on my watch my hindu friend!

Preston (September 9, 2008)

Fuck...timberwolves lost.

2+ Replies

veganboyjosh (September 9, 2008)

timberwolf!

Preston (September 9, 2008)

either way...lost.

veganboyjosh (September 9, 2008)

only if you closed the tab.

Preston (September 9, 2008)

yeah, I'm work. I had to close it last night.

veganboyjosh (September 9, 2008)

1. figure out a way to rip a stream.
2. post that.
3. ???
4. profit!

Scruffy (September 9, 2008)

Everyone needs to read the article. It's ten times better than what it would appear to be, and has left me with an immense respect for Rickley that I didn't have before.

baseball (September 9, 2008)

While I agree with plenty of what he's saying, I don't really know what purpose the article is going to serve. It's just kind of like, no one really wants to read an article about how they're not doing anything productive or socially conscious. That's not going to inspire someone. I don't think that really influences people.

I think if you, as a musician, really want to influence people then write good thought provoking songs with socially conscious lyrics and people will catch on if they agree. I know when I was younger bands like RATM and Propagandhi certainly influenced me, but it was because I first liked the music.

I guess my point is, if you want someone to care about something you think is wrong, criticism (deserved or not) doesn't help a lot of the time. You have to be cordial, accessible, factual, and reasonable if you want people to car

show rest of comment

1+ Reply

the_problem_with_fire (September 9, 2008)

"I guess my point is, if you want someone to care about something you think is wrong, criticism (deserved or not) doesn't help a lot of the time. You have to be cordial, accessible, factual, and reasonable if you want people to care about something."

stza would disagree with you

SydBarrett420 (September 9, 2008)

More like ThursGAY, amirite???? LOLOLOLOLOLOL

SydBarrett420 (September 9, 2008)

Person with a bigger dick: Sarah Palin or Max Bemis??

Go...

2+ Replies

baldsteve (September 9, 2008)

Your quandary has no merit. There are no dicks in this equation.

el_matt (September 9, 2008)

Another thing that actually OFFENDS me, which is hard to to these days, are the people who are pissed that politicians steal money. The strange, slow, old people on the Democratic Party and the few annoying stragglers on this party.

Archangel (September 9, 2008)

I have so many questions about this article.

First of all, which revolution is he talking about? Who does he want us to unify and rise against? What problems should we be taking to task? Calling for a generic revolution is silly.

And sure, he's not addressing the specific problem in this article but the overall inability to face problems in general as capable adults, but it really just sounds like a "Shame on you!" rant.

What the hell is Geoff Rickley doing for the revolution? I love Thursday and I listened to the United Nations record and I enjoyed that, too. But what's he doing?

We need more kids who grew up into punk rock and hardcore going to law school.

6+ Replies

el_matt (September 9, 2008)

Up the Ipso Facto! Oi Oi Oi!

InternetTroll (September 9, 2008)

He wants us have a revolution against the 'i don't care' hipster revolution that will revolutionize the camera-holding revolutionaries into rock-holding revolutionaries with it's vague use of DJ's friends and kids that are pissed off in a basement.

Franco (September 9, 2008)

That was actually really funny

Jay3313 (September 9, 2008)

You forgot the 30 or so random band references.

sugarfull (September 9, 2008)

What about Mathew Lillard?

Archangel (September 9, 2008)

That's SLC Punk, right? Sure, shit like that. We need lawyers who have Black Flag bars tattooed under their suits.

TrueBeliever (September 9, 2008)

So I was just informed that McCain has a cameo in Wedding Crashers.

3+ Replies

baldsteve (September 9, 2008)

They shake his hand, tell the Senator 'thanks for coming'. It's not even kind of hidden. Celebrity indeed.

Adlai_E_Stevenson (September 9, 2008)

Isn't James Carville in it, too?

Or maybe I'm thinking of 30 Rock... cajun-style.

ConsumedByMusic (September 9, 2008)

isn't that old school?

655321 (September 9, 2008)

http://scottking.info/blog/2008/08/05/john-mccain-in-wedding-cra shers/

Threewords (September 9, 2008)

Put down the fucking thesauras and saturated appeal to obscure 'visionaries' from our past. That only alienates the people you are trying to reach even further. Nobody gives a fuck who Marshall McLuhan is. Thats because we don't have the opportunity to know like you do, Geoff. You have the opportunity to know because its cool for you all to exude the facade of knowing one and two lines from these modern and sometimes past figures. Such as most everybodys personal jesus, charles bukowski. this is a very nice plug for your band but nothing makes you qualified and many of the things you were attempting to make. Its contrived. I also reccommend reviewing the artsy obscure bands you included on your list in lieu of the ones that make a difference in the face of the mainstream and to millions of people spreading the very message you attempt to do in this rather short manifesto.
<

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8+ Replies

baldsteve (September 9, 2008)

That was more than 3 words.

I wouldn't say Bukowski is a jesus, more of a patron saint.

veganboyjosh (September 9, 2008)

damn you east coast. i thought you were farther ahead than 21 seconds.

baldsteve (September 9, 2008)

We already had this discussion. I'm from the future. Not far into the future, but enough where I just look disappointed most of the time.

veganboyjosh (September 9, 2008)

you need to go back in time, and kill the past you, and then just appear to be really smart/precogniscient.

a la primer.

baldsteve (September 9, 2008)

Man, that movie was a lot better than I expected it to be.

Speaking of better than it should be. Bottle Rocket is being released in a Criterion collection. I'm pretty excited.

veganboyjosh (September 9, 2008)

i own primer, and have seen it 5+ times. i'm still not sure i understand what happens at the end. when they start talking about the guy at the party, things start breaking down and stop making sense.

re: bottle rocket: that's about the only one i can stand of his. royal tenenbaums was good too, but i think i'm biased cos it had the ramones and the clash.

i've tried the others, and none of them are as good as bottle rocket. a criterion version needs to be on my shelf, for sure.

baldsteve (September 9, 2008)

Re: Primer, go to the imdb boards on that film, it's pretty funny. I'm with you, and a little irritated that it's almost set up for the viewer to decide. That's the filmmakers job, not mine.

I think Bottle Rocket and the Royal Tenenbaums are perfect. Rushmore is really good, but I'm a little Biased as I believe Bill Murray to be a god, (A god not THE god)Life Aquatic is flawed but has Bill Murray so my previous comment stands.

I never saw the last one as Adrian Brody's face gives me the heebie geebies.

usversusthem (September 9, 2008)

Adrian Brody's face is perfect beyond compare, you lousy bastard. I would do terrible, unspeakable things with/to/for that man.

As for movies... just saw Primer last night. Still working over the mechanics of it, but I know I enjoyed it.

Wes Anderson is one of my favourite directors of all time... I've yet to see Bottle Rocket, though. For me it's:

Rushmore > Royal Tenenbaums > Darjeeling Limited > Life Aquatic

I still love the Life Aquatic to death, though.

SydBarrett420 (September 9, 2008)

Oh stfu Teeter, you have already been proven to be a fake.

veganboyjosh (September 9, 2008)

i stayed up for like 18 hours when i first came across that man.

veganboyjosh (September 9, 2008)

that was more than three words.

JayTee (September 9, 2008)

That's quite far off the point. Did you read it? Or even the article he talks about?

eran_zombis (September 9, 2008)

Regarding your last paragraph, I think the scene that Thursday spends its time in is a little more ridiculous than most others. Not to say that cut off jean shorts, plaid button-ups and beards aren't also a coherent look, but they don't make people look as funny.

the_cobra (September 10, 2008)

not funny but out of place. it looks like a the poorer part of a major city was invaded by lumberjacks

TEAiM (September 9, 2008)

Your post annoyed me for 2 reasons (probably more if i was to really get into it but i can't spare the time to be that annoyed with you)

1. "Nobody gives a fuck who Marshall McLuhan is. Thats because we don't have the opportunity to know like you do, Geoff"
a) he was a GENIUS and a LOT of people who are active in culture/design/media know and care very much who he is.
b) you don't have the opportunity? to what? read? research? wikipedia?

2. Graffin, Morello, Mackaye, Grohl etc. aren't really a part of the same community.. but if you're super generalising then yes - the music community (of such people) does get derision from the wider community at large because of how we look - I work in an office full of suits and i wear my dickies and check shirts etc. and let me tell you - it does make a HUGE difference to how you're perceive

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Threewords (September 9, 2008)

1) The post is to get people like you to speak up on the first point as you did. Though I would disagree on the wikipedia part. Anyways, thats the intent.

2) To appeal to your third point, I shall connect in short order that they arent as far off as to say music community as a whole. Just figureheads who if I had to relate as closely as possible, Brian Baker played guitar for both Graffin and Mackaye, Morello covered the latter artists song, and Grohl served as a musician on Mackayes label. Not to make it all about Ian but I'm saying these people personify to their own respective fans the point Geoff was arguing against. These people work very very hard to break down visual sterotypes. I will never say they don't exist and will cease to exist, just that people certainly attempt to bring them down that were not mentioned. Even as a tangent beyond what Geoff w

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Strawberry_Panda (September 9, 2008)

Fashion grew to be a greater concern than ideology. It's bands like Family Force Five that I blame this for. They're created to sell t-shirts.

1+ Reply

SydBarrett420 (September 9, 2008)

Thats because your ideology won't get you any pussy.

InternetTroll (September 9, 2008)

Rickley-rolled!!

1+ Reply

cort (September 9, 2008)

winner

dlangl4 (September 9, 2008)

For a mere $150, this guy will rail against any clothing trend of your choosing and blame it on the image replacing the message.

2+ Replies

veganboyjosh (September 9, 2008)

awesome.

Archangel (September 9, 2008)

We have a winner.

IReviewMusic (September 9, 2008)

this guy actually just cited q and not u as a political band.

"left lane must turn left at signal. right lane must turn right at signal. no scissors in bed. tired of waking up with a new haircut every morning, so there's no scissors in bed."

sound political to you?

2+ Replies

GeoffThurs (September 9, 2008)

Umm--- End the Washington Monument ??? sound political?

Quote from the singer of Q and Not U:

That said, I think our band has quietly found our political voice over the last few years because we’ve been consuming—and to some degree, choking on- world events as they transpire. We never had any kind of specific political awakening. It’s just gotten into our bloodstream. And obviously, we’re outraged by the agenda that the administration is pursuing, and we’re saddened that our fellow Americans feel so helpless, when we should all be getting in the act.

IReviewMusic (September 9, 2008)

i went to highschool with these guys (in the richest zipcode on the east coast) and that reeks of the kind of fake, self-serving, rewrite history crap that it really is.

nice to see someone buying into it, though. not everything on dischord was/is protest music.

GeoffThurs (September 9, 2008)

You may have a personal dislike for them, but I've always found them to be informed, involved and active in many different ways. I think if the rich can help the working class they should, so I don't care what zip they're from. Protest isn't the only form of being engaged in a more compassionate counter-culture but I do understand your point-- maybe political awareness isn't as strong as political protest, so absolutely, I see what you're saying.

ASVLN12 (September 9, 2008)

Geoff Rickly for president! fuck mccain and obama we need RICKLY!

TrueBeliever (September 9, 2008)

http://www.mitchclem.com/nothingnice/245/

http://www.mitchcle m.com/nothingnice/287/

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CountChocula (September 9, 2008)

lol!

DrGunn (September 9, 2008)

though i don't think NOU's aesthetic was meant to be taken seriously.

canaandrumzz (September 9, 2008)

Movements start from individuals not groups. Instead of focusing the blame on the generation at large we need to find leaders to define our movement. If we have a movement at all. Personally, as long as there are people who can think critically about what we consume then all hope is not lost. Other than that I'm not one to start revolutions per se but I think I have enough strength as an individual to make my own decisions regardless of who tells me whether its cool or not.

GeoffThurs (September 9, 2008)

I don't expect you to all agree with me or anything like that. I know that many of you think that I'm a terrible singer with an awful band and an embarrassing bleeding heart. But this conversation going on in here is fucking insane. Is there anywhere left in music where we can have a free flow of ideas and an exchange where we actually respect each other? If the people who want to rip apart everything that I've said disagree with me, I've provided a contact for them to try and educate me. I know that this world is all about the tearing down: mocking, making people feel stupid, etc.etc. -- I just wish discussions on Punknews.org didn't sound like a bunch of AM talk show hosts tripping over each other to discredit and ridicule. The revolution that I'm talking about is a revolution of thought and conversation: a revolution of compassion, where we engage meaningfully w

show rest of commentI don't expect you to all agree with me or anything like that. I know that many of you think that I'm a terrible singer with an awful band and an embarrassing bleeding heart. But this conversation going on in here is fucking insane. Is there anywhere left in music where we can have a free flow of ideas and an exchange where we actually respect each other? If the people who want to rip apart everything that I've said disagree with me, I've provided a contact for them to try and educate me. I know that this world is all about the tearing down: mocking, making people feel stupid, etc.etc. -- I just wish discussions on Punknews.org didn't sound like a bunch of AM talk show hosts tripping over each other to discredit and ridicule. The revolution that I'm talking about is a revolution of thought and conversation: a revolution of compassion, where we engage meaningfully with each other. Where we stand up for something, anything that we think matters. Where the next visionaries can talk to the people who listen to them and fucking grow. I've had my time in the spot light and I've been given more praise and criticism than I deserve. But for fucks sake, can we try and take the world around us seriously. I'm fucking scared out of my mind about the world and I feel really lonely a lot of the time that no one even acknowledges half the shit that's going on. We have NO transparent media. No leaders who aren't owned by special interest in some capacity and apparently NO FUCKING WORRIES. I'm not saying shame on you to anyone. I'm saying, "Is anyone interested in starting a forum that's not about racking up douche-chills or saying terrible shit about our peers?" Go ahead and tear me down some more, but I know some people who read this will contact me and we'll start brainstorming together: gofrickly@gmail.com

29+ Replies

CUAPUNKRADIO (September 9, 2008)

Geoff,

Does everything have to be this cataclysmic? Probably not. I hear what you are saying about problems and lack of activism amongst radical/subcultured societies but the desperation is not warranted. The truth of the matter is that there are many MANY more politically leaning bands and activists now then there were 25 years ago, just more cynicism and less stand out leaders. The message you preach is certianly not full of compassion but fearfullness, and certainly is not bounding with positivity. You are scared out of your fucking mind?! That is not how you rally the 'troops.' Is this a call to intellectual debate , discourse and compassion or is this the call of Chicken Little?

GeoffThurs (September 9, 2008)

Vonnegut is my hero and he could admit when he was scared. Here's a quote: "You're not good if you're not scared, you know." The message is full of compassion. I love all the kids that want to reach out and do something positive, even if they hate my band. There's nothing wrong with being scared, though, my tough friend. Besides, the sky is totally falling, bit by bit. And we all know it. And we probably won't be able to stop it. But let's try and be awake enough to help each other out as it comes down.

LookBackAndLaugh (September 9, 2008)

Although there is an element of alarmism towards the end, I think that you are overemphasizing it. And I think that it is good to have a sense of urgency about such things. I don't even necessarily agree with the entire idea, but I think it's better for someone to say something like this than 'whatever'...

baldsteve (September 9, 2008)

Where do you currently call home? I'm just outside of DC and home all night, I've got a fridge full of High Life and nothing to do. Come on down, I'll talk your ear off.

GeoffThurs (September 9, 2008)

I'm currently in the tri-state area but I used to get down to College Park a lot. Not as much now that I don't own a car but yeah man, next time we play DC, I'd love to grab a beer and just listen.

IReviewMusic (September 9, 2008)

dude, i'll come over and we can have a party with him, brett gurewitz, and a number of other people who have dropped their pants over the criticism they've received on the org.

GeoffThurs (September 9, 2008)

Dropped pants... meaning to pee on you? or for you to wipe my ass? Or is this more of the typical homophobic bullshit that people throw around insinuating I'm offering to take it in the ass for you to like me? Because honestly, you can go fuck yourself... I don't like you. I don't fucking care about you and I'm not going to change my approach to what I do to kiss up to an internet fuck-face like YOU. So, bald steve, if you were sincere that you had something to tell me that you think I could use to hear, I am still up for it, but IReviewMusic can only come if he's going to act like a human being.

IReviewMusic (September 9, 2008)

Pants dropped to masturbate. For some reason criticism dealt on this website has a fantastic success ratio when it comes to pissing off people who shouldn't even bother to let it show up on their radar.

You're in the company of other famous, hysterical narcissists (hi, Brett Gurewitz) who have failed to take the tongue-lashing they got on this site with a grain of salt.

Hell, it's part of the org's wikipedia article. We need a name for it. Punknews Syndrome?

GeoffThurs (September 9, 2008)

Dude---- I take tongue lashings on this site all the time and think they're hilarious. I can't sing. I'm a douche. I'm gonna cry. I wear tight pants and supposedly flat iron my hair. It's absurd and stupid and I love it. But when I say something real at least try and deal in a real way. If you want to ignore me, go for it. If you want to say I'm a terrible writer, who can't seem to express his message, sure it works. But don't try and peddle some bullshit about this being a narcissistic grab at fame. DUDE, been there, done that... (have you seen how bad I am in some of our videos)--- this is something sincere. I guess you really did get under my skin, but not for denigrating me. For denigrating my sincerest hopes and best intentions. And that's just cruel.

IReviewMusic (September 9, 2008)

Stop exposing your ideas to scrutiny if you can't stand what you'll get.

You keep whining about how we need to grow. Guess what? Your greatest opportunities for growth come from criticism. And your intentions aren't exempt.

Time for you to develop a thicker skin.

aorta (September 9, 2008)

Goddamn, time for you to stop being a douche.

eran_zombis (September 9, 2008)

Yours is not scrutiny.

baldsteve (September 9, 2008)

anytime man, anytime. As sincere as humanly possible. I'm always up for sitting around shooting the shit and solving the worlds problems.

Cox_Attack (September 9, 2008)

Hey I totally agree with your message. Apathy is a contagious disease that has been consuming not only "counter culture" subcultures, but youth and to a bigger extent, people in general.

IReviewMusic (September 9, 2008)

What are you doing? Why should anyone listen to you?

The problem I have with this is pretty simple: since when do guys who play in the kind of bands you play in, who are, like it or not, complicit parts of a number of serious problems with the commercial nature of most music, get to talk about this kind of stuff.

The answer is pretty simple: since the cultural premium placed on music created a situation in which you're entitled the kind of cults of personality that mean people read blogs you write for fairly mainstream music websites. And therein lies the primary cause of the situation you're bemoaning.

The cultural climate you bemoan won't cease to exist until you find yourself in a position where you can no longer complain about it to a captive audience, and I don't think you're ready to give up the spotlight.

GeoffThurs (September 9, 2008)

yeah--- fuck being in a band. If I quit and change my name maybe people will finally listen to me shouting in obscurity. And don't lecture me on complicity when you post on a website that gets adds from major label bands if that's your issue. I'm done with debating you in public. If this isn't just for show, then email me and tell me how you think I can better serve the public good. Otherwise, I'm tired of this thread being your outlet for your frustrated life.

IReviewMusic (September 9, 2008)

Great. I'll happily continue to beat on you.

I'm not in any way affiliated with, receiving money for, or even gaining a platform for my unrelated personal opinions from this site.

You, however, are here defending a personal set of ethics you made public on a website sponsored by a series of events that run just as contrary to your message (if not more) than Punknews.

Headbanger's Ball? Puh-leeze. Prove to me that shit wasn't invented to make a few people rich (or at least as part of a greater plan to line some pockets). Not the smartest place to make an argument against a culture of consumption in the music world.

No one held a gun to your head and made you sign to the labels you signed to. No one tied a rock to your legs and drove you to the pier so they could explain how street teams had to be an important part of Thursd

show rest of commentGreat. I'll happily continue to beat on you.

I'm not in any way affiliated with, receiving money for, or even gaining a platform for my unrelated personal opinions from this site.

You, however, are here defending a personal set of ethics you made public on a website sponsored by a series of events that run just as contrary to your message (if not more) than Punknews.

Headbanger's Ball? Puh-leeze. Prove to me that shit wasn't invented to make a few people rich (or at least as part of a greater plan to line some pockets). Not the smartest place to make an argument against a culture of consumption in the music world.

No one held a gun to your head and made you sign to the labels you signed to. No one tied a rock to your legs and drove you to the pier so they could explain how street teams had to be an important part of Thursday's marketing perspective. You made those decisions.

And guess what? You didn't have to. There are shittons of great bands out there who choose the smaller, more honest labels and who never bother with the business bullshit, and still manage success.

If a creatively-enabled member of one of those bands had felt a need to address the same things you were, the following would be true:

1. The ideas would be more original (everything you've said has already been said, and better).

2. They would find a better channel for it, where it's likely to reach other individuals who act as catalysts for change, and not legions of fans.

3. They wouldn't be wasting time they could spend doing something about the fucking situation (or figuring out what to do about it) making sure everyone on Punknews.org can see JUST how insecure they are by trying to convince us that we're wrong for taking exception. The thing you want hidden most is the thing most clearly seen, and everyone here can tell now, thanks to your whining, that the article you wrote was motivated by your frustration with yourself and the world you've drawn up around you/your music.

GeoffThurs (September 9, 2008)

Fuck yes I'm frustrated with myself and the world that I've helped make. But no, you're wrong when you say this wasn't a great forum for it. People heard it. People responded.

Springsteen is major label, thank god he doesn't try and say shit. ditto Public Enemy, ditto Neil Young and on and on... your arguments are all weak and yeah I'll come here and waste some time talking to people because I foster the idea that there is no true divide between an audience and an "artist"--- we all have voices. we all matter. I spend a ton of time working to make a difference and I consider coming here and presenting some views a good use of time. There are plenty of smart insightful people here.

You're not beating on me dude. Sorry. I've been actually beaten many times by people much smarter than me and much smarter than you. It's been the thing

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IReviewMusic (September 9, 2008)

I think you need to think good and hard about whether you really think what you said and where you said it means a fucking thing.

You didn't even propose any kind of solution. As someone already mentioned, you trying to incite some kind of generic, semantic, webolution doesn't help anyone.

You're not an artist. Don't refer to yourself that way unless you're using it as an industry term. You're lucky if the English language considers you a 'performer.'

You have no ground to stand on. Everyone gets one chance to make their reputation, in terms of what being an independent musician means to and for them. They then become public figures to a certain degree, and that reputation follows them and colors other peoples' understandings of what they say and propose.

That's why Ian MacKaye gets listened to when he speaks. It's why you won't get

show rest of commentI think you need to think good and hard about whether you really think what you said and where you said it means a fucking thing.

You didn't even propose any kind of solution. As someone already mentioned, you trying to incite some kind of generic, semantic, webolution doesn't help anyone.

You're not an artist. Don't refer to yourself that way unless you're using it as an industry term. You're lucky if the English language considers you a 'performer.'

You have no ground to stand on. Everyone gets one chance to make their reputation, in terms of what being an independent musician means to and for them. They then become public figures to a certain degree, and that reputation follows them and colors other peoples' understandings of what they say and propose.

That's why Ian MacKaye gets listened to when he speaks. It's why you won't get listened to, as Geoff from Thursday posting on Headbanger's Ball, until you do some real work to prove to people your priorities have changed. Good luck on that, I hope you do some great things in the process, but you're not there yet.

That blog read like someone who's just now come to a very basic awakening about the world they've contributed a whole lot to. So don't spew crap at us in the meantime. Read a lot. Talk to people at labels like Dischord, and even better, Table of The Elements, and once you have an evolved understanding of what you're dipping your hands into, then feel free to paint us a picture.

In the meantime, leave it alone.

I'm sure Jeff Hunt checks ToTE's Myspace every so often. Send him an email, ask for an internship. I know he does them from time to time. Read some cultural criticism that references the enormous cultural shift you're so 'scared of' (it's not nearly as recent as you think: try the 1970s). There's plenty written about it.

If you're dedicated to seeing what's wrong with music and acting against it, you'll get there. But you won't do it from Headbanger's ball and you won't do it with a mild-at-best understanding of what you're after.

GeoffThurs (September 9, 2008)

Well at least now you're proposing a real critique. Which I respect. And you may be right that I have only a very basic understanding of many socio-political-economic and cultural phenomenon. I'm sorry if any of that blog came across as spewing rather than reaching out a hand. And I'm sorry to say this man but people are listening and we're working together already. And no, I haven't done much yet. Benefits and philanthropy and many of the "posi" things I'm involved with may be self-serving but I think everyone should have the chance to make a change in their life towards what they believe and see to be right. I do appreciate your suggestions and I will keep digging, but in the meantime I won't leave it alone. Sorry. None of us should be told to leave it alone. You sound like a classist and an elitist. You talk down to me, but you don't know me. I may

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IReviewMusic (September 9, 2008)

You sound like someone who talks before they act. The world doesn't need more of that.

Shit doesn't just happen because people talk about it. You may think that's true, but it takes a real novice to see possibilities where really there are only dead ends.

GeoffThurs (September 9, 2008)

Fail. For a second I almost respected you.

IReviewMusic (September 9, 2008)

Speaking of a real critique, that one sure delivered.

And I have bad news for you. All those people you're getting together with and doing stuff alongside? If you haven't taken the time to learn carefully and preliminarily about what you're trying to do, you're just going to be redundant, irrelevant, and arrogant in whatever effort you undertake.

Proven by the fact that you're not aware of how many people are doing exactly what you're advocating for (at least I think so, your appeal is so vague and desperate it's hard to decipher) and doing it incredibly well. They're already out there. Go find them, help them, learn from them.

You're trying to get people to rally around you when people are already addressing the issue. The only difference being that you command a potential share of collective attention those people don't. The problem there is th

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GeoffThurs (September 9, 2008)

Well that is certainly a danger of what could happen. But you assume that I'm not bringing people with me to the groups of activists who are well aware of what they are doing. I'm not a false punk messiah, you big jerk. I'm just trying to help rally some people. The reason I'm providing my contact is so that I can help get people involved in things that are right for them.

IReviewMusic (September 9, 2008)

So it doesn't take expertise to identify expertise? I'm sure you can tell there are a lot of things wrong with that idea.

You're a lost cause. The people who are bound to make lasting differences are easily identified-- they learn heavily, do humble work, and only speak up when it becomes absolutely unavoidable.

You don't seem much like the type. Good luck finding someone to get behind with a more restrained sensibility about the right time and place to pontificate.

syebot (September 9, 2008)

I have a question! what changes have you made, hmm?

I'm not trying to make you look stupid, you just seem to be talking about how Geoff has no idea what he's talking about etc,, and I'm wondering in what way you're qualified to make these statements... oh god, no matter how I phrase this, I sound like a twat. Oh well. Do you speak from experience or something?

nina_d (September 9, 2008)

I thought you were a troll at first but I agree with the majority of the things you said in this thread

GeoffThurs (September 9, 2008)

***Equality*** not equity

the_other_scott (September 9, 2008)

who the fuck are you to tell somebody whether or not they are an artist or a performer?

Franco (September 9, 2008)

IReviewMusic you're fucking garbage. Your arguments are idiotic and confrontational for no reason. Geoff was just speaking his mind. If you don't agree with it fine, but don't be a dick.

P.S. For you douchebags that are going to say it, I'm in no way a Thrusday fan boy

IReviewMusic (September 9, 2008)

Waaa. You're confrontational for no reason! WAAAAA. DONT HURT HIS FEELINGS.

graynoisenet (September 9, 2008)

you had good arguments and then you go and forfeit everything with this garbage. You have obviously been affected because you certainly have a lot to say about it. I understand that this Rickly rant is somewhat of a road to nowhere but, you.... you have really proven nothing by throwing a bunch of odd insults. Actually, you did prove something.... you proved that you only have so much steam before your efforts fail and you resort to childish name calling. Let's see a list of all of the things that you have done to affect people's lives and then we will all take pot shots at it. Let's see all of the things you've done creatively and then we will "IReview" them. You should join me in making IReviewpeople.com or IReviewopinion.com or IuseMicrosoftWordThesaurus.com ... or IReviewbecauseIcannotDo.com or IPurporttoknowthingswithouthavingtocitethem.com or Idividemylifefromeveryonelsebecausetheygo

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syebot (September 9, 2008)

this is what I was trying to say when I commented up there^, except I tried to be nice about it, but I guess it's kind of impossible.

IReviewMusic (September 9, 2008)

There's not really much to say to the above, dipshit poster. He's complaining about me being mean to someone. It's a kindergarten complaint, so he gets a kindergarten response.

And speaking of responses, that's what Rickly got. He was the one who took the initiative to post a rant. We're all just putting it under a microscope. So don't tell me I'm wasting my time. I wasn't the one who thought my posts were going to blow peoples' minds or change the world. That's Geoff.

GeoffThurs (September 9, 2008)

Put your dick under a microscope kindergarten pants--- ooooooooooh snack. eat it. enjoy it. spit it up later. then eat it again 'cause you're a fly.

IReviewMusic (September 9, 2008)

Hahahahaha. Someone really needs to make a website for this thread. I'm a fly?

Talk to me in 3 or 4 years. Geoff who?

GeoffThurs (September 9, 2008)

"Both of you should know better than to post on punknews and expect anything but what you got."

You're right, and I feel like a bit of stupid shit head for getting all hot and bothered. Sorry for being a bit of an idiot on here. But I really do believe in getting inspired and working together. I just need to chill out a little and read some Matt Ramone posts. They always make me feel better.

syebot (September 10, 2008)

HAHAHAHAHA Matt Ramone is a cunt!

MattRamone (September 10, 2008)

I stopped talking about your vagina, if you noticed.

syebot (September 10, 2008)

is it step one in your transformation into a "sensitive, new man"? cos you know, becoming that means you have to watch The Notebook and like it.

graynoisenet (September 10, 2008)

i guess I'm still not sure why you log on here and argue with yourself.

BarleyPat (September 10, 2008)

You really are quite a toolbox. I've never really listened to Thursday other than a couple songs and I don't know a damn thing about Geoff, but he comes off as a reasonable person. You - not so much.

eran_zombis (September 9, 2008)

"... wouldn't be wasting time they could spend doing something about the fucking situation (or figuring out what to do about it) making sure everyone on Punknews.org can see JUST how insecure they are by trying to convince us that we're wrong for taking exception."

Rickley said his goal was to foster discussion, and I think that's a good start. Open dialogue is the basis for academic and social learning.

kidgotham (September 10, 2008)

"You sound like someone who talks before they act. The world doesn't need more of that.

Shit doesn't just happen because people talk about it. You may think that's true, but it takes a real novice to see possibilities where really there are only dead ends."

I would assume he disagrees.

escalators (September 9, 2008)

I agreed with practically everything you said and it was nice to hear from someone in a band as big as you talk about these issues. It hit particularly close to me since I finally moved out of a college town that was dominated by hipsters (the kind that listen to Sonic Youth, not the kind that listen to "nu emo"). I was friends with a good number of them, but they frustrated me to no end. Especially since supposedly they were the counterculture, yet there seemed to be such a shallowness there. I have been really disappointed by the responses on this website, even by punknews standards. It seems to me that had this been written by Brenden Kelly everyone on here would be applauding it. I wish I had more time to respond, but I am moving across the country in a couple of days and don't have the time. Perhaps I will shoot you an e-mail in the near future, because

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Archangel (September 9, 2008)

Geoff, are you planning on voting this November? If so, for whom?

sXenester (September 9, 2008)

geoff rickly's response pn.o > tim mcilrath's

hey geoff, when are you guys coming back to MA? I'm all pants-off about that speculative converge/thursday/envy bill? you fucking slew when you opened for HWM.

on the politic side of shit, i'm glad people are at least speaking their minds. we need less like stza and more like those that will speak freely against the current bullshit. the worst thing you can do is stand by and do nothing. more people need to make any small effort, without change on a smaller basis, there'd be no change on a bigger basis. people need to become moe involved in how the gov't works as opposed to more apathetic. plenty of bands talk the talk, but what the fuck has Bono actually done? it's moving out from behind the wall of text shitty "political" bands shove down their fans throats and actually get involved on a real basis. imag

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GeoffThurs (September 9, 2008)

Positive force is amazing. I have many friends involved in DC area activism and I hope to become even more involved.

sXenester (September 9, 2008)

have you guys considered going the pearl jam route of bringing voter registration and such along? how about a "tour" involving spoken word and informing people of stuff? i'd love to see at some college here in MA you guys playing a few songs, talking up stuff you're passionate about, and maybe bringing someone like ralph nader out? some kind of activisim "tour" or something, invite organizations to come and use area ones as well.

canaandrumzz (September 9, 2008)

Hey Geoff, if this is really you at the risk of sounding like a fanboy I want to say that I have a tremendous amount of respect for you. Thursday was the band that got me into music and helped move me out of an awkward teenager into one confident about himself because he recognized that he wasn't to different from the guys in thursday and they were being creative and unique.

Now, I just don't quite see the urgency in what you see. Maybe its just a point on which we disagree but personally I feel that people who have just happily gone along doing what they do b/c its "cool" or whatever. People who want something more than that have always been able to find it. Right now there aren't any bands in the mainstream challenging the status quo but I think there will be a band soon that does. I think things like this work in cycles b/c of simple human natur

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GeoffThurs (September 9, 2008)

Yes, you're right it's always there to find. If anything, I just want to stir things up and remind a lot of people that have slipped into apathy that we can make a difference if we work together. Also, there are a lot of kids in marginal mainstream culture that are just dying to find out more about vibrant counterculture. Those are the kids I'm addressing.

canaandrumzz (September 9, 2008)

Well I'm with you on that one, I was one of those kids. The thing for me though is was able to discover it by accident. I think that any group that sets out to do what you're talking about is doomed from the start. The groups you talked about hardly ever set out to accomplish what they actually. The best we can do is do the best we can and hope someone gets it.

And seriously, play DC soon again. I'll be there, even though both times I've broken my glasses at shows have been during Thursday sets.

MattRamone (September 9, 2008)

Don't you have more shitty Beatles album covers to Photoshop?

sXenester (September 9, 2008)

wokka wokka wokka

MattRamone - he gets in more fights with band members than you

GeoffThurs (September 9, 2008)

YES!!! I DO!!! And flute practice....MATT RAMONE!!! Funniest hater in the fucking house. Booya!!!

nina_d (September 9, 2008)

Sincerely isn't always smiled upon on the internet and when people write things like this it either means: A. you don't get it, or B. you get it and don't give a fuck/want to honestly change something.

I'm hopin' for B.

cort (September 9, 2008)

im replying to this one because i guess geoff will read it perhaps. everyone screams revolution but never really say anything. i know what you are saying, but the fact is any kid who is a part of the scene whether they listen to metro station or whatever the the indie as fuck kids are currently creaming over. ive come to realize people that truly dont take looks into consideration are kids who listen to music casually and just like what they listen to. i know i do this, but i also used to delve into as many differnet scenes as possible because i thought thats what belonging meant. however, most people who are casual listeners have the radio or listen to a number of hit songs over the past 60 years, and dont care about message.

besides that, ive enjoyed thursday on and off for quite some time. ive grown up in sussex county my whole life and i know you used

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amstsltguk (September 9, 2008)

A-fuckin-men

cort (September 9, 2008)

and actually another thing. the only reason i even still remotely bother with punk (not even the music really though) is because of what its meant to me. it says that you dont need anyone else. that it always valued the individual, not any group, even if that group listens to the same bands. you can be friends with who you want and do what you want. when people get you down, dont worry about them because you have yourself. im tired of people always talking about the scene and the community, I DONT GIVE A SHIT. im looking for some decent music and usually i like lyrics that have to do with personal struggles whether that be life in general or girls, i dont give a shit. people just need to be themselves. that is what i think all of the counter culture bullshit really started as, but now just sort of dwindled down into a bunch of bullshit.

before my next poin

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fallingupwards84 (September 9, 2008)

this has nothing to do with the political discussion, but Geoff - i would say a majority of the people here at least appreciate some of the music you've done... Full Collapse is generally well-respected here as a phenomenal album

eran_zombis (September 9, 2008)

War all the Time is my favorite Thursday song, and it's a really good song, too.

dX927 (September 9, 2008)

Is this really the guy from Bearfort? (Yes that was supposed to be a joke)

yahay (September 9, 2008)

toasting in epic bread

SydBarrett420 (September 10, 2008)

Careful, if this is really Geoff Rickly, you are wandering close to Max Bemis territory

kidgotham (September 10, 2008)

Geoff didn't call us slow and old. He's still okay.

KungPowza (September 10, 2008)

Yep the world sucks. But if you think this is as bad as it gets you're fucking dreaming. Try setting the atomic clock at one minute to midnight. I bet THAT was a pretty fucking scary time to be alive.

King_Rodney (September 9, 2008)

What do you mean I ain't kind? Just not your kind!

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GeoffThurs (September 9, 2008)

If this is Mustaine, then I just want to say it's an honor.

xshoutoutx (September 9, 2008)

What do you mean, "I don't pay my bills"?
Why do you think I'm broke? HUH?!

Trauma16 (September 9, 2008)

Fuck hipster culture. The holier than thou attitude makes me want to stab them with a gun.
New respect for Ricklly though, good argument and the use of citations and examples really does give an academic feel.
God dammit i hate hipsters.

sugarfull (September 9, 2008)

The thing I disagree with about this article is that it makes apolitical music to be less relevant than it is. I know I may be in the minority on Punknews, but I have a fundamental respect for bands who are able to make great music without putting it in some moral paradigm.

3+ Replies

CobraSkullsFan (September 9, 2008)

any band can write an empty song like that.

acris (September 9, 2008)

Songs that don't have political meaning aren't empty. Human emotions offer a huge variety of "fullness".

GeoffThurs (September 9, 2008)

You're absolutely right. I'm not trying to suggest we get rid of the many wonderful emotions of music(including punk) --- just that we shouldn't let ourselves feel discouraged or give up on a "scene" or "underground" or "counterculture" with a heart and a conscience.

syebot (September 9, 2008)

that's not music, it's just noise!

Neill_Cawley (September 9, 2008)

Good: Geoff sticking up for himself and connecting with us.
Bad: Geoff wasting his time talking to some really dumb people.

1+ Reply

acris (September 9, 2008)

At least he wasted his time in an eloquent and well constructed manner.

ashtraymonument (September 9, 2008)

the personal attacks on geoff are getting a little stupid here. dude's entitled to his own goddamn opinion, even if you don't agree with it. There were some parts I agreed with, and some I didn't. I agree that there is a lot of talking and little action going on, and that hipster culture is just plain awful for a myriad of reasons. and the popularity of apolitical, trite, nu-emomallpunkbullshit is very disconcerting. however, there are plenty of bands outside of the mainstream that are putting out political message. I'm honestly surprised that it seems he is only focusing on whats popular right now. But even bands like Thursday and Rise Against, who have an overtly political message, get lumped in with the stupid nu-emo/screamo/mall punk/bullshit bands, and the message goes right over the heads of 85% of the mainstream fans.

Look at the fucking Rage Against the Machine

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1+ Reply

IReviewMusic (September 9, 2008)

get pissed, man. you have a right to. you have a right to scratch your head til it bleeds over people basically disenfranchising bands with revolutionary messages by ignoring them.

eran_zombis (September 9, 2008)

Community involvement and activism is the best form of protest.

JaredK (September 9, 2008)

I hate the fuckers who make things out of paper mache...

StuckInBielers (September 10, 2008)

I can't think of a more apathy inducing entity than MTV.

walktogetherrocktogether (September 10, 2008)

i agree w/ Geoff here. i think people just need to be woken up a little and question things going on in this world that we seem to have no control over

* to look @ what's going on w/ our presidential candidates is a great start. Mainstream Media and Government (both ours and overseas governments who own stock in CNN and FOX) are obviously in bed together and tell you what they say you need to know. Neither candidate in this election is saying shit, and why hasn't anyone brought up Biden / Obama's connection w/ Freddie Mae and Fannie Mac? (let's not forget who originally backed Obama and was in charge of finding his VP, James A Johnson who is on the board w/ Lehman Bros, Fannie Mae, Goldman Sachs etc - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_A._Johnson_(businessman) - check it ou

show rest of commenti agree w/ Geoff here. i think people just need to be woken up a little and question things going on in this world that we seem to have no control over

* to look @ what's going on w/ our presidential candidates is a great start. Mainstream Media and Government (both ours and overseas governments who own stock in CNN and FOX) are obviously in bed together and tell you what they say you need to know. Neither candidate in this election is saying shit, and why hasn't anyone brought up Biden / Obama's connection w/ Freddie Mae and Fannie Mac? (let's not forget who originally backed Obama and was in charge of finding his VP, James A Johnson who is on the board w/ Lehman Bros, Fannie Mae, Goldman Sachs etc - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_A._Johnson_(businessman) - check it out for yourselves - McCain and Palin, i don't even know where to start there. Why can't Ron Paul and Nader have more of a voice? they're the only people saying anything intelligent

* has anyone noticed that Spain bought the PA Turnpike and are now looking at the acquisition of the NJ Turnpike? why do the residents of Pennsylvania and NJ have no say or vote on this? since when don't our opinions count?
http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/20080519_Spanish_fi rm_offers__12_8_billion_to_lease_Pa__Turnpike.html

* was 9/11 an inside job? do you think that's crazy to question?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:False_flag_opera tions

* also, the Federal Reserve should be done away w/ because they're the cause of all this debt and thus enslavement (and ultimately demise) of the American middle-class. any candidate who brings this up gets my vote.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Federal_Reserv e_System

i think all Geoff is saying here is, take a look around and stand up for and educate yourselves. believe this: our government and the people who make the rules in this world really don't care about you, they want you to focus on your nice haircut and and "reality" tv and be completely blind to what is really happening to us and the world we live in, so if you don't stand up for and educate yourself, no one will.

i think that is pretty admirable actually.

3+ Replies

SydBarrett420 (September 10, 2008)

9/11 wasn't an inside job unless you are of the mind that a few peope in Washington knew about it and let it happen. Once you get to work in Washington you'll understand why a large scale conpsiracy is so improbable.

walktogetherrocktogether (September 10, 2008)

well that completely rules if it's true.

there are just a lot of things that need addressing and i think a lot of honesty is missing from the world today, and there is a major disconnect between government and the average person.

* why are all the banks going under? what are people expected to think is happening right now? Bush cuts checks for BILLIONS of dollars every day! it's funny money! it's backed by NOTHING! how is our country not completely bankrupted?!?!

* on a smaller scale: do people even know they're being forced to switch to digital cable in february? that came out of nowhere, is a government mandate but has no real explanation being provided (i know you can search the internet and see that it's to free up analog channels for police and fire depts) but still, its just strange.

i think our count

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SydBarrett420 (September 10, 2008)

1. Welcome to international money markets schemes

2. Pretty sure the analog signal eats up more bandwidth than their digital counterparts. Once tha analog is gone, we can get more HD channels too with the free space. This isn't really a suprise as there has been a trend to move towards digital for years. You seriously don't have a rabbit ears t.v. still do you?

cort (September 10, 2008)

the fact that you brought up 9/11 as being an inside job kills your credibility. besides that, yes the mainstream media sucks at delivering news. however, would you say people are more informed now as opposed to years ago? i know my parents know more, even if finding out very small clips from mediocre news programs. the media isnt trying to take over the world. if they did they would be much more thorough and probably try to know what they are actualyl talking about.

as for your other conspiracies i didnt bother reading: bad shit happens sometimes if there is too much regulation or too little regulation, speaking on both social and economic issues. thats just how it goes.

StuckInBielers (September 10, 2008)

Counter culture gets appropriated
Dog bites man

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