Well, I don't know about that, but I do know that determinism isn't true. Quantum physics for the win!

Report  
DrGunn (December 12, 2008)

has this been settled yet? i thought the jury was still out on that? would be interested to know what the current stance is.

Report  
LookBackAndLaugh (December 12, 2008)

There is still some argument, I believe.

Report  
10-4Eleanor (December 12, 2008)

The problem with quantum theory is that it has a propensity to get hijacked by uninformed new-agers. Other than that, we have only to substantiate it further with more evidence.

Report  
victim (December 12, 2008)
If you are asking what the current stance of "science" is, its probably not that different than the mechanical determinsim of Isaac Newton mixed with some mumbo-jumbo allusions ot Quantum Theory. The idea of "Heat Death" of the universe is over a century old believe it or not.

Philosophically I think these questions hit their high point in the 1800s with Hegel and Marx and Engels. After that it is mostly warmed over bourgeoisie ideology dressed up in various ways (Bertrand Russell, Ernst Mach, Claude Shannon, etc)

The problem with discussing philosophy is that a certain precision and discipline are required for any sort of discourse to take place. In this example it starts with asking "What is meant by Free Will?". You'll find that most of the mystification of the issue disappears if we are forced to state exactly what we mean..chiefly because that

show rest of commentIf you are asking what the current stance of "science" is, its probably not that different than the mechanical determinsim of Isaac Newton mixed with some mumbo-jumbo allusions ot Quantum Theory. The idea of "Heat Death" of the universe is over a century old believe it or not.

Philosophically I think these questions hit their high point in the 1800s with Hegel and Marx and Engels. After that it is mostly warmed over bourgeoisie ideology dressed up in various ways (Bertrand Russell, Ernst Mach, Claude Shannon, etc)

The problem with discussing philosophy is that a certain precision and discipline are required for any sort of discourse to take place. In this example it starts with asking "What is meant by Free Will?". You'll find that most of the mystification of the issue disappears if we are forced to state exactly what we mean..chiefly because that is exactly what we are unable to do..

Man makes his own history, but not in the circumstances of his own choosing
--Karl Marx

Report  
MilesQToast (December 12, 2008)

hehe I wondered how long it would take for someone to bring up quantum physics.

Report  
sugarfull (December 12, 2008)

*does slow jerk*

Report  
victim (December 12, 2008)

At first I thought you were B F Skinner but then at the end you turned into Gottfried Liebniz. I sincerely hope your post was a joke of some time.

while there might be objections from a physics perspective, from a psychological perspective i think it's pretty fucking hard to make a good argument for free will.

Report  
victim (December 12, 2008)

sure, if behaviorism hadn't been debunked 100 times over

Report  
DrGunn (December 12, 2008)

not behaviorism. i think most schools of psychology, if you apply them to the concept of free will, totally contradict it.

Haha, that was classic.

>Seems to be most of the kids in the video are Fashion-punks.

Shows how much you know... most of the kids in the video, with possible exception of the girls who were shown at home with their Moms, were heavily involved with the scene in Boise, playing in bands, putting on shows, doing zines, etc. I don't know of a single one who "dropped out" and became "normal", whatever the hell normal is...

Report  
DrBug (December 12, 2008)

Youre normal, especially in that video.

Report  
markh (December 12, 2008)

Normal enough to kick your butt... plus, it was you who told me 12 years ago now that I wasn't normal being a 30-year old punk... and now look at you.

By today's standards. Things were a little different then.