A good portion of those places aren't open to "underground" type shit. And at least one of those is closing it's doors shortly. And the city is cracking down on on more "underground" type venues. So, it's VERY easy to take that article seriously.

hahaha, Club Nokia...

sounds like some sort of lame-o cellphone boutique store, or kiosk at a mall.

"Come see Stryper, and make sure to check out all the latest accessories for your Nokia brand smartphone!"

Red Sparrowes and Russian Circles within 24hr. Wow there's just no gigs in LA.

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LookingForCorpses (November 9, 2009)

Either you didn't read the thing or your reading comprehension skills are that of a 7 year old.

The number is shrinking, literally, by the week.

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the_other_scott (November 9, 2009)

at which size venue? just curious....

in the last 5 years i've been to shows at spaceland, the echo, echoplex, the smell, the key club, the troubaour, the scene bar, the center for arts in eagle rock, house of blues, the good hurt and i'm sure there are more that i can't think of.

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LookingForCorpses (November 9, 2009)

Small to midsize.
Scene Bar is gone, at least one of those other venues you mentioned is rumored to be closing, House of Blues is in trouble (not that you could have an underground metal show there, anyway), there's not much going on at Good Hurt, Troubador doesn't do a LOT of metal or punk shows, etc.
The Knitting Factory closing was a major blow to punk and metal in LA. That's the loss of 3 rooms.

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Cos (November 9, 2009)

not true.

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LookingForCorpses (November 9, 2009)

Oh really. Interesting. I'm sure you'd know better than Dan who's interviewed in that piece.

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Cos (November 9, 2009)

I know that there isn't a venue shutting down every single week in Los Angeles.

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LookingForCorpses (November 9, 2009)

Well, there's another shutting down this month. So, how does "monthly" sound?

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LookingForCorpses (November 9, 2009)

As I posted above this, "Scene Bar is gone, at least one of those other venues you mentioned is rumored to be closing, House of Blues is in trouble (not that you could have an underground metal show there, anyway), there's not much going on at Good Hurt, Troubador doesn't do a LOT of metal or punk shows, etc.
The Knitting Factory closing was a major blow to punk and metal in LA. That's the loss of 3 rooms."

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Cos (November 9, 2009)

The Scene Bar might prove to be a big loss. The Good Hurt sucks. But the Knitting Factory.. I just don't see it. That slack can easily be picked up by the Roxy, The Whiskey, or the Echo or Echoplex. The Whiskey and Roxy used to host a ton of punk bands that were booked at the Knitting Factory. Kicking out some of their pay to play nights to bring in bands with a following probably wouldn't be too hard. The Troubadour just hosted the Lawrence Arms this weekend. Top that off with tons of little places like the Echo Curio, Silverlake Lounge, Pehrspace, the Smell, Mountain Bar, and tons of other places that I haven't heard of and innovative shit like what the Fuck Yeah Fest people put on... the LA scene will be fine.

I know that none of these places are generally friendly to metal but again, I don't fucking care.

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LookingForCorpses (November 9, 2009)
The Knit had those shows becaue the Whisky and Roxy didn't really want to be bothered with them. The only way they're going into the Whisky is if a promoter puts up and an arm and a leg and has locals sell a shit load if tickets. Same goes with Roxy. They're not going to suddenly decide to start booking them in-house again. Neither venue wants that. The Echo/plex isn't punk friendly, at all, and only books the more "hipster" metal bands (as does it's sister venue, Spaceland).
I said somewhere else, the Troubador does some punk and metal. It's not their main thing. Maybe a show a month of either genre?
Most of those places are not only not metal friendly, they're not punk friendly, either, except for Mountain Bar. FYF people do stuff either at the other aforementioned venues, that arts center in Eagle Rock or, like they did with the fest, renting a giant field from

show rest of commentThe Knit had those shows becaue the Whisky and Roxy didn't really want to be bothered with them. The only way they're going into the Whisky is if a promoter puts up and an arm and a leg and has locals sell a shit load if tickets. Same goes with Roxy. They're not going to suddenly decide to start booking them in-house again. Neither venue wants that. The Echo/plex isn't punk friendly, at all, and only books the more "hipster" metal bands (as does it's sister venue, Spaceland).
I said somewhere else, the Troubador does some punk and metal. It's not their main thing. Maybe a show a month of either genre?
Most of those places are not only not metal friendly, they're not punk friendly, either, except for Mountain Bar. FYF people do stuff either at the other aforementioned venues, that arts center in Eagle Rock or, like they did with the fest, renting a giant field from the city/state.

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Cos (November 9, 2009)

It also needs to be said that the Knitting Factory was closed because of an awful property manager and constant police harassment, not because it wasn't doing well. If the demand is there, people will get their shows.

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LookingForCorpses (November 9, 2009)

I think that's a big part of the point he made, as well as what I've been saying. People aren't coming out to some extent, but that the venues are getting shut down for various reasons.

Closed last month.

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CaptainSaveaHo (November 9, 2009)

Well then. I am clearly neither upping the punx nor with it.

probably could use all these shut down venues for those.

i'm not sure what that means? what exactly is "Faux DIY"? it's either DIY or not. there's not really an in between - unless there is a promoter behind the show that's not taking credit for it?

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Brett-NOLA (November 9, 2009)

I was just poking at the story's passing reference to Epitaph and Vagrant. Like they're getting into this because all of the "real" venues are closing down.

Well, when the city closes the venues' doors or makes it impossible to do shows it's tough.

The metal and punk scenes are running pretty much hand in hand and losing the KNitting Factory is a major blow to both.

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Cos (November 9, 2009)

With the exception on the Knitting Factory, all the places listed were strictly supporting the underground metal scene. Don't care. Sorry.

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LookingForCorpses (November 9, 2009)

Such as? And if you really really think, this is JUST effecting the metal scene, you're totally blind to what's going on around you, sorry.

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LookingForCorpses (November 9, 2009)

I'm still actually kind of baffled you don't see a correlation between the 2 and how what is bad for 1 is bad for the other.

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Cos (November 9, 2009)

I just don't see the connection. Even metalcore bands (don't like them either) don't really associate with death metal bands. Outside of the Knitting Factory closing, I think this is pretty much a non-issue with the punk scene. I'd never heard of the Black Castle or gone to metal Mondays, probably because I don't really care for bands with names like "LETUM ASCENSUS" or "UPSILON ACRUX". That's even sillier than something like Reel Big Fish.

I've been going to punk shows for 14 years now and the health of the metal scene has never crossed my mind once.

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LookingForCorpses (November 9, 2009)
Taken from the post way down below, written by one of the guys from City of Devils:
"-- distinguishing between punk and metal for underground music was stupid back when 7 Seconds sang “Walk Together , Rock Together” and stupider in 1986 when SOD sang “United Forces”. To do so now w/ underground venues is clearly a case of “we must all hang together or we will surely hang separately.”"
That sums it up pretty well.

This IS effecting your scene. Safari Sams, The Scene and the Knitting Factory were venues that were friendly to both and they're gone. And like I said, I hope the rumors aren't true but another is supposedly closing up this month. There's massive crossover within those scenes. MASSIVE. It's not debatable. There are bands that crossover, promoters who do both (much like Church of the 8th Day), fans who crossover and so on and so on. Do you not rea

show rest of commentTaken from the post way down below, written by one of the guys from City of Devils:
"-- distinguishing between punk and metal for underground music was stupid back when 7 Seconds sang “Walk Together , Rock Together” and stupider in 1986 when SOD sang “United Forces”. To do so now w/ underground venues is clearly a case of “we must all hang together or we will surely hang separately.”"
That sums it up pretty well.

This IS effecting your scene. Safari Sams, The Scene and the Knitting Factory were venues that were friendly to both and they're gone. And like I said, I hope the rumors aren't true but another is supposedly closing up this month. There's massive crossover within those scenes. MASSIVE. It's not debatable. There are bands that crossover, promoters who do both (much like Church of the 8th Day), fans who crossover and so on and so on. Do you not realize that every subgenre of punk and metal are genres that most venues DO NOT WANT in their rooms? Most venues don't want moshing or slam dancing or whatever you want to call it. They don't want underage kids in. The fans tend to be "unruly." There's so many similarities it's simply astounding to me that you don't get it. And it's not just "death metal." That's not what "underground metal" means. It means bands of all subgenres. So bands with names like Coliseum, Toxic Holocaust, Municipal Waste, Converge, EyeHateGod, Entombed and so on may not have places to play. Just like, where are the Bronx going to play in LA? Losing a venue that tolerates loud, angry music and their loud angry fans effects everyone. Losing an independent venue effects everyone. It's pretty clear to me that the "scene" doesn't actually matter to you. The "scene" is bigger than a genre label.
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LookingForCorpses (November 9, 2009)

Also, your statement about metalcore bands not associating with death metal bands is completely inaccurate. See The Faceless with Dying Fetus, see Hatebreed, Unearth, Born of Osiris with Cannibal Corpse (also see the Casualties doing dates with Hatebreed later this year. Hatebreed's also toured with Dropkick Murphys and the Unseen.) See bands like Darkest Hour or Black Dahlia Murder who've come out of the deathcore/metalcore scenes and are basically excepted in the "real" metal world. Oh, Black Dahlia Murder who just toured with Children of Bodom. See a band like Sick of it All who've toured with Rancid and the Dropkick Murphys and Tiger Army AND Slayer and Sepultura. Or Agnostic Front, whose sound itself has bounced between punk and metal for years and has been on both Epitaph and Nuclear Blast. I can keep going it you want.

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Cos (November 9, 2009)
Sick of It All I would consider a traditional NYHC band that would fall under the punk umbrella for me (like hardcore acts such as Kid Dynamite, 7 Seconds, Minor Threat, etc etc) that never crossed all the way over into the sludge and silliness of blood/murder/genocide lines that seem to permeate throughout the metal scene. They may have toured with Slayer but they've also toured with Hot Water Music, something I could never see someone like Children of Bodom doing. The exception is not the rule.

For what its worth, when I said metalcore I was thinking more along the lines of bands like Converge and Dillinger Escape Plan. I've already professed ignorance/disinterest in the scene so I'm sorry if I've gotten that wrong. The other bands you mentioned I've personally written off as metal bands masquerading as "hardcore" bands from day one, much like the wretched A7X and At

show rest of commentSick of It All I would consider a traditional NYHC band that would fall under the punk umbrella for me (like hardcore acts such as Kid Dynamite, 7 Seconds, Minor Threat, etc etc) that never crossed all the way over into the sludge and silliness of blood/murder/genocide lines that seem to permeate throughout the metal scene. They may have toured with Slayer but they've also toured with Hot Water Music, something I could never see someone like Children of Bodom doing. The exception is not the rule.

For what its worth, when I said metalcore I was thinking more along the lines of bands like Converge and Dillinger Escape Plan. I've already professed ignorance/disinterest in the scene so I'm sorry if I've gotten that wrong. The other bands you mentioned I've personally written off as metal bands masquerading as "hardcore" bands from day one, much like the wretched A7X and Atreyu. Those bands can play with all the other metal bands with unreadable logos and lyrical rape fantasies. I don't give a fuck.

I guess I'm shrugging because I see so many places throughout LA and surrounding areas (Shawn Stern mentioned Alex's Bar, another place I've forgotten) that it really doesn't seem like that big of a deal if places that were poorly run (Safari Sams and the godawful Crash Mansion) aren't around anymore. This isn't San Francisco in 1999, when astronomical rents closed rehearsal spaces and venues left and right, not by a long shot. There are plenty of places to play and plenty of opportunity to create spaces.
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LookingForCorpses (November 10, 2009)

And that's why I sited SOIA, a band who's probably more under the "punk" label (although they've had some metallic leanings) who've crossed into different scenes. They're doing their new record with an acclaimed Swedish metal producer now. Hot Water Music would probably not tour with COB, but they have toured with bands like Acme (who were very heavy/metal influenced) and I'm sure some other bands of the ilk. They've definitely played with Converge.
You are also disregarding and mislabeling a shit load of different types of bands. Your second paragraph would be like me saying, "I just group Reel Big Fish, Rancid and Alkaline Trio together."
Alex's Bar is in Long Beach, right? It's hardly even the same scene. There's not a lot of crossover in show attendees between LB and LA from what I see.

100% correct. ANYONE can play the Whisky if you can "sell" a good amount of tickets. Try putting on a show there or the Roxy. The expenses are astronomical.

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splitter (November 9, 2009)

this is all true, but why the fuck hasn't anyone just stepped up to the plate? sure, rent is astronomical in that area, but it wouldn't be impossible to start an LA-area collective and get a DIY venue up and running. this area has been nothing but whining without action for the past 15 years.

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LookingForCorpses (November 9, 2009)

That article mentions at least 1 venue that was a warehouse space that was shut down. There's at least 2 others I can think of that have been made to stop doing shows, as well. There's a very healthly collective/DIY vibe going. It's the lack of spaces you can actually get into.

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Kram1234 (November 10, 2009)

you should take that back.....

http://hydeparkhalf.org/

Most decent small venues aren't usually in the centre of towns, isn't it case of finding bars to put on shows that aren't going to do pay to play (just fuck that concept completely, any bar that runs that system can get fucked as far as I'm concerned). Is there no promoters around doing smaller shows? Is the problem that there are too many big shows so the smaller stuff is getting pushed out of the way?

I may be over looking some dedicated people here but most scenes are built out of people going out there and putting on shows, the article just seems to say that places are closing down and thus there is nowhere to put on shows, but doesn't mention anyone doing something about it.

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LookingForCorpses (November 9, 2009)

The focus of the thing is a guy who does shows at a ton of venues running into the problem that venues are shutting down. It also mentions at least 2 other promoters who are getting shut out of spaces. He clearly mentions they're looking for more places.

Pay to play?
Do you get a cut of the door price after that?
How much does it generally cost to play one of these venues?

I moved to L.A. recently and will be looking to get some shows very soon... Don't suppose you have any essential advice? :)

Whatever, you're just jealous.

Now go shovel your driveway while I work on this tan.

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sweetsugarpezz (November 10, 2009)

have never had to shovel snow of my driveway in atlanta. ECFU!

It's definitely not especially organized and could do better if more people got together, but there's a lot of people out there trying to do things. There seems to be a pretty significant DIY scene.

Yep. I didn't mention the 21 plus thing earlier when I wrote something about Spaceland (also Silverlake Lounge).

"Punks" have been whining about "mindless hip hop and useless unce-unce dance music" for-goddamned-ever. Somehow we still have a scene that's thriving.

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RonnieD (November 9, 2009)

It's the drugs.

...why would anyone hang on this site if he/she is not into punk rock?

Well said.

There's a huge fucking difference between punk and metal. The difference hinges largely on the fact that almost all metal bands suck shit.

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LookingForCorpses (November 10, 2009)

God, you just suck at life.

thank you for this

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Kram1234 (November 10, 2009)

no problemo!
alot of awesome shows coming up.

were stoked