I don't see you being interviewed, dickhead.

I noticed the same thing, he did a very good job of not sounding like an idiot. He should look at this interview from time to time when he feels the urge to write a song, because it's his songs that make him look like an idiot.

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th3space (January 17, 2004)

I dunno...forgetting what the group of old people is called, that's pretty questionable. Especially considering the number of registered voters in the AARP...PV.org only wishes that they had that kind of pull and lobby potential. There's hope, though. If politicians can take people with incontinence issues seriously, then maybe punkers have a shot, too.

I also think Howard Dean would. The grass-roots nature of his campaign seems geared to listening to those who are pissed.

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Someone (January 16, 2004)

but dean is a douche on the issues

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Someone (January 16, 2004)

but soon enough he will be the democratic candidate, so i guess it's better being listened to by a douche than by no one at all. And don't take this as a comment of support for Dean. I would cum myself five-times over for Clark as prez-Kerry as VP on the ballot

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Someone (January 16, 2004)

agreed

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

reasons?

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

Not necessarily. Clark is currently in the lead in Arizona and gaining on Dean quite quickly in New Hampshire. Dean won't win every state. I wouldn't have believed what I just said, either, two weeks ago, but things are changing.

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slippy (January 18, 2004)

I'm all down for Clark, personally. Of course any of the major democratic candidates are better than what we got now...

But then NoFX wouldn't have time to tour. Well, maybe they would, GW Bush is always on vacation. Jello for Prez, he doesn't really play anymore anyway. Lard could do the national anthem!

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Someone (January 16, 2004)

Since when does NOFX tour anyway? haha

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thriceequalsgod (January 17, 2004)

every other summer.... ya know, warped tour.

Bush is a threat ehh? Now isn't that the same hash this guy is dishing out? Please...tell me

you know who actually is a threat to this world and this country? terrorists and the people who don't use foresight to protect our interests. i hate all this hippy, liberal shit and i've been listening to punk for over 10 years. i'm ashamed of the connatations that punk has that aligns it with liberalism and i am votin Bush...for a 2nd time.

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

what is the deal with liberalism and punk anyway? wasn't punk created to rebel against big government? modern liberalism is pushing towards a socialist society, with government hands in everything.. thats not punk... maybe i'm mistaken..

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

yah you're mistaken

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OKSoda (January 17, 2004)

Yes, I think you are mistaken. I don't think punk music was formed just for the sake of rebelling. People rebel against something that is wrong in our society. A socialist society would not be something you would rebel against. For the most part, we just want everyone to be heard, and everyone to be happy. No more classes, no more poverty. Why live in a society that allows for a few to become rich, when we could live in one where everyone is the richest person?

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

Because, first of all, everyone CANNOT be economically equal. Secondly, our free-market system does allow for everyone to become rich. Thirdly, if we had a economic system where "everyone was the richest person" there would be no motivation to produce, innovate, etc. In that type of system, once again the power would be concentrated by those who wish to exploit it, i.e. the USSR.

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OKSoda (January 17, 2004)
Well, I really do think that we can create a system where everyone is economically equal. I believe wealth can be distributed evenly among the populous. Yes, our current system technically has potential for everyone to get rich, but how? By realizing some new way to clean carpet or inventing a new micro-processor for use in space shuttles? So yes, that one person has come into a new life of wealth, but what of the thousands of workers who will mass produce his idea? They will make minimum wage, why should they not get paid more? Why is the group that puts his ideas in motion not rich? Also, I find it hard to believe that if everyone was monetarily equal, nothing would get done anymore. Isn't there at least a chance that with poverty out of the picture, people could focus on more important things. Do you really think that, without poor people, we would just stop working on c

show rest of commentWell, I really do think that we can create a system where everyone is economically equal. I believe wealth can be distributed evenly among the populous. Yes, our current system technically has potential for everyone to get rich, but how? By realizing some new way to clean carpet or inventing a new micro-processor for use in space shuttles? So yes, that one person has come into a new life of wealth, but what of the thousands of workers who will mass produce his idea? They will make minimum wage, why should they not get paid more? Why is the group that puts his ideas in motion not rich? Also, I find it hard to believe that if everyone was monetarily equal, nothing would get done anymore. Isn't there at least a chance that with poverty out of the picture, people could focus on more important things. Do you really think that, without poor people, we would just stop working on cures for cancer, or an alternative fuel source? In fact, equal wealth would only bring us to our goal faster. The number of people who could now afford an education would increase immensely, allowing for more college graduates, allowing for more people to tackle these issues. Yes, maybe no one would try to invent a new type of plunger or air freshner, but I still believe we as a people would concentrate on the true problems that need solving. Lastly, don't pretend that only in a socialist government will power be abused. This can happen in any system, and can be seen in all current governments of the day, but don't let this deter you. We would have to make sure that power stayed in the hands of those who would not abuse it, through a little thing called democracy.
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Someone (January 17, 2004)

So, after all the wealth is distributed equally, what happens next? Everyone is paid the same amount for whatever work they do? If someone makes something really inventive and important, then there efforts (wealth) must be once again re-distributed so as to not offset the economic balance? In any system, some people will always be better off than someone else, giving rise to classes. The free market is the best system and history has given proof to this, to say anything else is economically ignorant.

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Haggard (January 17, 2004)

I believe we should have a system like one of the Scandanavian countries. Free-market makes the rich richer and the poor poorer. -Justin

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

try to have rights in a socialist society... the chinese sure have alot of rights.. people in the old USSR sure had alot of rights...

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rkl (January 17, 2004)

thats communism, not socialism, numbnuts. Canada has a socio-democratic republic. they seem to do things just fine.

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

Yay! Healthcare for all at all costs! Fuck you.

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Haggard (January 17, 2004)

You are an idiot. Healthcare for everyone because some people are not well-off and can't afford it. -Justin

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Someone (January 18, 2004)

Hmm, where does the money come from?? oh wait, it doesn't matter, ends at all costs!

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Haggard (January 18, 2004)

It comes from the tax-payers. It won't be any different then paying it to a private company you imbecile. Except that everyone will get it. -Justin

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Someone (January 18, 2004)

Yay! I get to pay for everyone else! Oh joy! That's why I worked!

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RondoMondo (January 18, 2004)

I hope you become poor...and you can't afford healthcare. Fuckface.

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Someone (January 18, 2004)

yeah that system is called communism and we know how that worked out.

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rkl (January 18, 2004)

no. SOCIALISM is unequal to COMMUNISM. two seperate terms. two seperate things. take an economics class, or a history class that's not high school-based, or hell, read the part of the book that your teacher will never get to, b/c no history classes ever hit past 1955.

Fox news is the biggest un-funny joke since Bush.

i wish i was older with a shitload of cash

Faux News : We distort, you comply. I read that somewhere. Either way he handled the questions rather well. And yes, I agree with whoever said Bu$h & Co. is a huge threat to the country and world. Vote Clark!

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Someone (January 16, 2004)

that reminds me of an AAA song, and clark is the man.

Fox news doesn't slant anything after all they are "fair and balanced", remember?

that was slightly funny

Oh, he does those too!

What are you saying? That coke isn't a respectable drug?! I'm gonna..uh...disagree.... yea

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Someone (January 16, 2004)

now are we talking a lot of coke or just a few lines here and there

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CrankWillDestroy (January 16, 2004)

Ahhhh! 'a lot of coke ' Just those words listed consecutively like that make me wanna go empty my bank account! But I don't know, good question.

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

I'm not even going to try and make this shit verbatim, but Mike said in an interview once that people don't have drug problems...it's not the drugs, it's the people using them. You take a handful of valiums at a party--you've got a fuckin' problem. He went on to say some people know how to take drugs in moderation and not let them take total control of themselves. So my guess is a few lines here and there. I'm just paraphrasing what Mike said, so don't any of you straight-edgers bother telling me where my post was flawed and shit. I'm sure it is, but fuck it. I'm sleepy. -MATEO D'CAY Oh and by the way, let's call it BLOW from now on, not coke. Blow is way more hardcore.

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

smelly was the biggest coke head

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CrankWillDestroy (January 17, 2004)

Yea, I'll bet he did lots of pcp and acid too...

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Someone (January 18, 2004)

"Eric Melvin VS pcp" -mateo

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Someone (January 19, 2004)

read the story on the Q&A section of nofx.org about Erik (smelly, for you newbs) eating a bunch of acid, throwing a grill out of a 2nd story window (in response to someone's saying "let's throw a barbeque"), and waking up underneath a Van in some city. And I'd rather have Fat Mike blowing lines than the president of my country. Dubya does way more lines, anyhow. Just some info from your friend, -Eddie Punchclock

too bad the leader of this COUNTRY is a cokehead

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

no, he stopped, but Clinton was doing it in office.. prolly right off lewinski's tits..

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Someone (January 19, 2004)

"too bad the leader of this COUNTRY WAS a cokehead" There, I fixed it. Name me one politician that DIDN'T do some serious drugs back in the 60's and 70's.

what is your stance? have you heard what bush has done? he's a bastard.

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Someone (January 16, 2004)

I disagree with Bush on a lot of issues (gay marriage for example) and he's really messed up the WMD issue in Iraq. I agree with some of the stuff he's done (for example, at least he's done SOMETHING with the prescription drug plan. Better than what it was before, not saying much, but still...) But I can't stand Dean. If Dean gets the nominee, I'll vote for a libertarian or something. But if Clark or Kerry get the nom, my vote will go to them.

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Someone (January 16, 2004)

I agree.. ---

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

libertarian? c'mon, i mean i consider myself a libertarian in some ways (privacy and a generally free society and all that good stuff) but to vote for the party? its full of a buncha people who deem all taxation unnecessary and practically wanna privatize sidewalks

I think the point is that if the entire state was recounted, Gore would've handily won. The recount was done only in some counties in Florida, not all of them. Counting only those counties that Gore requested recounted, Dubya won by a few hundred votes. Counting all of the counties in Florida, Gore won. Counting all of the Democrats who were wrongly stricken from the voting rolls by Katherine Harris, Gore won by many thousands of votes. This all came to light after all of the major newspapers reexamined the vote tallies, I think the report came out in 2002. Don't have a URL for ya, but it should be easy enough to find. Personally, I consider Bush to be illegitimate. He acts as if he has a mandate from the voters to alter our country as extremely as he has. This is ridiculous since he barely squeaked into office.

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Someone (January 16, 2004)

But, see, right here is what makes that argument void (I think anyhow): Counting only those counties that Gore [b]requested[/b] recounted, Dubya won by a few hundred votes Bush didn't steal it, Gore blew it. He blew it long before the actual election by distancing himself from Clinton, not to mention that he's a Democrat and couldn't get that Southern vote. That hurts. Whether or not Bush squeaked by in office doesn't matter. He won, and rightfully can pull the country in any direction he wants (as long as he's within his presidential powers, within the constituiton, etc.) And, as for that article, I didn't realize they came out with something like that, I'll look for it and read it. Thanks for the input.

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FatTony (January 17, 2004)

But the thing is that Bush only squeaked by through the use of foul play perpetrated by Katherine Harris. She had thousands of people removed from the voter rolls for so little as having the same birthday or a SIMILAR NAME as an ex-con. On top of that, there was some other foul play in the form of Jeb Bush giving Ms. Harris a list of ex-cons to add to the Florida list so they could get rid of even MORE names. As a result of all this, many minorities were denied their legal right to vote, which resulted in thousands of votes lost for Gore (and maybe a few for Bush). But even with all the foul play at hand during the last election, the fact that Bush BARELY squeaked by with the Florida vote means that Gore should have won the state and there wouldn't be a trespasser in the White House.

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Someone (January 18, 2004)

oh so now it's okay for ex-cons to vote when it benefits gore?

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LushJ (January 19, 2004)

In most states, once you've done your time (i.e. "paid your debt to society"), you get the right to vote back. It's part of the rehabilitation aspect of going to prison and going through the parole system. Florida's one of the few states that does not automatically reenfranchise ex-felons after their sentence is over. The part of the post you're ignoring is that many more thousands of voters were wrongly denied the right to vote WHO WERE NOT FELONS! Some had conviction dates of 2007, others had similar names, etc. Greg Palast, investigative reporter, did a whole series of articles on this. Check out http://www.palast.org for more information.

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LushJ (January 19, 2004)

In most states, once you've done your time (i.e. "paid your debt to society"), you get the right to vote back. It's part of the rehabilitation aspect of going to prison and going through the parole system. Florida's one of the few states that does not automatically reenfranchise ex-felons after their sentence is over. The part of the post you're ignoring is that many more thousands of voters were wrongly denied the right to vote WHO WERE NOT FELONS! Some had conviction dates of 2007, others had similar names, etc. Greg Palast, investigative reporter, did a whole series of articles on this. Check out http://www.palast.org for more information.

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

yeah, it is really a surprise that Gore couldn't get the vote in Bush's brother's state.

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Someone (January 19, 2004)
"Counting only those counties that Gore requested recounted, Dubya won by a few hundred votes. Counting all of the counties in Florida, Gore won. Counting all of the Democrats who were wrongly stricken from the voting rolls by Katherine Harris, Gore won by many thousands of votes." Hey, that still doesn't mean shit. They followed the process and Bush won, it could have swung either way being so close and it could have been the Republicans talking about how "Gore stole the election". It's not like Gore would have one by a landslide either if he had an extra hundred votes or so in FL. So what? All the election showed is that people are extremely indifferent between the two clowns. And recounting doesn't mean "more accurate count". The same factors that make the first count innaccurate could apply equally for the second count. You could recount the vote twenty times and

show rest of comment"Counting only those counties that Gore requested recounted, Dubya won by a few hundred votes. Counting all of the counties in Florida, Gore won. Counting all of the Democrats who were wrongly stricken from the voting rolls by Katherine Harris, Gore won by many thousands of votes." Hey, that still doesn't mean shit. They followed the process and Bush won, it could have swung either way being so close and it could have been the Republicans talking about how "Gore stole the election". It's not like Gore would have one by a landslide either if he had an extra hundred votes or so in FL. So what? All the election showed is that people are extremely indifferent between the two clowns. And recounting doesn't mean "more accurate count". The same factors that make the first count innaccurate could apply equally for the second count. You could recount the vote twenty times and you'd get a different number for each time. The real problem is the electoral system in the first place. It SHOULD be popular vote only and ditch the electoral college. But it ain't, and no one was complaining BEFORE election day, so it's bullshit to complain AFTER you are unhappy with the results. Bush won fair and square, it may suck to have him as a president, deal with it. The real people to blame are the more than 50% of Americans who didn't bother to vote because "gosh darnit, I gots better thangs to do with my day".
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Someone (January 21, 2004)

The process wasn't followed unless you consider purging thousands of eligable voters "the process". And recounting DOES mean an accurate recount when ALL the VALID votes are considered, how hard is this to understand?

Bottom line, Bush is president. He won the election. Whether he got the votes or not doesn't matter. He found a way to win the election and he is our president. That's not gonna change so get over it! Otherwise, to all those drones listening to Fat Mike, don't just vote Democrat because he hates Bush. Study the candidates and look at their position on issues important to you, and vote for the person that you agree with most. That could be Bush, it could be a Democrat, it could be some third party. Just don't vote blindly. An uneducated vote is worse than not voting in my opinion.

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Someone (January 16, 2004)

exactly

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boba_fett (January 17, 2004)

so fucking true.

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Someone (January 19, 2004)

Thank you

Oh yeah, what an outsider. All TRUE rebels are republicans... Hahaha... Fuck off, runt. -BSD

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

Again, you prove your worthlessness. Do us all a favor and stay out of political discussions, because frankly, you offer nothing.

"But a lot of people "hate" Bush because it's either really trendy and cool or because they have some blind hatred of the man ever since the 2000 elections." I know it's totally stupid how these fools don't like someone that didn't get the majority vote being in office... Not to mention he had his brother and that silly cunt re-counting the ballots for him... Hmmm, I wonder if that was legit! You, sir, are a cockassed bastard. -BSD

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Someone (January 16, 2004)

hahahahahha, rock on BSD! -Greenvandal!

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

Apparently you don't live on a college campus BSD. What a douchebag you are.

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

he's only like 12..

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

Hahahhahahahah... Yes, because having free thought and not supporting any form of genocide must be trendy... That's just talk from ignorant people. Go back to listening to your quiet, safe music. -BSD

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Someone (January 18, 2004)

well if you would have paid attention to the news at his time his brother clearly stated that he had nothing to do with the recount. fucking dumbass.

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Someone (January 18, 2004)

Hahhahahahahhahahahha... Introducing: the funny rightwing dumbass. -BSD

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RondoMondo (January 18, 2004)

Haha, BSD, that cunt rag actually believes the politician. What a douche. Rock on BSD.

We all know that Bush won the electoral vote. But it's absolutely ridiculous, that you people, seem to think it's okay that we have a president who lost the popular vote (less people voted for this man!) and who probably cannot write a complete sentence!! We've had government classes we know how the sytem works, does that mean it's perfect? However, my comments are not directted towards you, seeing as how your comments were more anti-fat mike than they were pro-bush. However, it is still ridiculous that people feel the need to continue to rub this into the faces of those who oppose the president! We all know if you were that goddamn sure of Bush and his abilites you wouldn't feel the need to argue so much!

Furthermore, just because a large number of people do something or believe something doesn't mean that it's a trend!! There are billions of christians in the world is christianity a trend? I called the mass marketing of post 9-11 american patriotism a trend and people bit my fucking head off, however, being anti-bush is a trend? There are plenty of people who hate this man who have nothing to do with fat wreck chords or punk rock music! Disliking the Geroge Bush is not a fucking tend it's an opinion! Please excuse my trendy post!

The point is not that Bush won the election and had more electoral votes...everybody knows that already so you didn't need to clear that up..Its the fact that he screwed the system and cheated it that makes his win unfair and I think that is what Fat Mike is pissed off about.

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Someone (January 18, 2004)

he didnt cheat the system you dumbass. the candidate who gets the majority of electoral votes wins regardless of the populat vote and regardless of the candidates. there's no cheating there you fucking dumbass.

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notfeelingcreative (January 18, 2004)

Your post reads like Beavis and Butthead attempting to sound educated. Congratulations!

Hahhahaha... Yeah two military guys, one of whom slaughtered an entire village in Vietnam. Dean was anti-war the whole way through. -BSD

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Someone (January 16, 2004)

why is everyone on this site suddenly so anti dean?

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Someone (January 16, 2004)

he's a lying sack of douche

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FatTony (January 17, 2004)

Show me a politician who isn't.

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

Kuchinuch

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

STOP IT WITH THIS CLARK BULLSHIT! hes MILITARY for gods sake. dont any of you realize that the reason a lot of people hate bush is because hes a FUCKING WAR MONGER!?!? do we want a war monger vs. a war monger in the 2004 election? i think not. Dean hates the patriot act. he hates the tax cuts that benefit the rich only. He hates the war. you all talk about how people only hate bush because its "trendy" people are hating dean because its been trendy this week and its getting old, had the dems not been so goddamn stupid to have 9 candidates spewing propaganda at each other, nobody would be hating dean.

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dignin (January 17, 2004)

just cause Clark was in the military doesn't mean he's a war monger, he has actually said he wants to avoid war at all costs. Who better to be anti war then someone who has seen how bad it is?

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

Dean has absolutely NO experience in foreign policy. He can scream and shout about how Iraq is/was wrong all he wants, but does he have the background to know what to do about it? No. Clark does. Get over it. By the way, there are only 8 candidates now. Braun dropped out a couple days ago. At least know your shit before you call Wesley Clark, the man your precious Michael Moore is endorsing, a "war monger."

where does mike contradict himself? "this is obviously a partisan, leftist organization"? how about"We're not a non-partisan organization. We're an anti-Bush organization."

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chimericalburst (January 17, 2004)

the definition of partisan (according to dictionary.com) is: par·ti·san (pärt-zn) n. 1. A fervent, sometimes militant supporter or proponent of a party, cause, faction, person, or idea. opposing bush is a cause, plain and simple. that actually is the exact contradiction i would have quoted. cburst

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

did you not see the double negative? he's saying he's partisan for jeebus' sake

There isn't one, to be honest. If you ask me, Clark should automatically get the nom because well, he's a general and the President is in fact the highest military official. If Dean gets it over Clark, it'll be a black day for sure considering how Dean has publically admitted that he did "everything that he could" to get out of Vietnam and has no prior military experiance.

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dignin (January 16, 2004)

I wouldve done everything I could to stay outta that fucked up war too.

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CrankWillDestroy (January 16, 2004)

I second that.

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FatTony (January 17, 2004)

I third that and remind everyone that Bush also dodged duty by going AWOL, so I think Dean's OK on that issue.

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chimericalburst (January 17, 2004)

exactly, same here, which is why you're not running for the democratic nomination cburst

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dignin (January 17, 2004)

and cause I'm only 20, and if you think Dean is the first canditate to avoid war then your pretty ignorant.

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chimericalburst (January 17, 2004)

of course not, but i am saying that because of that fact dean is a particularly inoppritune candidate. cburst

But Bush's approval ratings are faulty... People feel morally pushed into supporting him. I gurantee 70% of America is sick of him. I don't think America wants another military guy, especially when George W. Bush ran as a peaceful middle of the road dolt, then became a militant rightwing nut as soon as he got into office. Also, Dean is an outsider among Democrates... He has a chance... -BSD

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chimericalburst (January 16, 2004)

i really wished i could place my faith in bush's approval ratings being faulty. and do you really think republicans are going to vote for dean? thats kind of a stretch. therefore, if he's an outsider among democrats and a democrat to republicans his political future can't be too bright. cburst

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

Even IF Dean gets the nominee, he won't get voted in. Why? Because's he's always backtracking, is angry, drawing the far left (which is even scarier than Bush and how people don't realize that is boggling, regardless if you have left wing tendencies or not) and frankly, if the economy stays up, Bush will likely have the win by a huge amount.

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

He has a chance, yeah, but his anger, which he uses to rile up his potential voters, will be his downfall. Dean does it to unite the people, which is good, but glosses over some of the most controversial issues, including abortion and gay marriage. The last time I heard Dean speak at the local VFW, he said (this is an exact quote): "I want to UNITE the Democratic party! You want to talk about gay marriage? I want to talk about health care! You want to talk about gun control? I want to talk about the environment! You want to discuss abortion? Let's talk about education!" If that isn't skirting around the issues, I don't know what is. The Republicans will eat that up, not to mention Dean's boxes of gubernatorial, SEALED records. They've been sealed for 14 years. I realize that most governors do this, but once again, the Republicans will attack him for it.

DUDE you guys shoulld check out this wessley clark guy. If he wins the Republicans are gonna tearrrrr him up. He bombed a chinese embassy and even was for the war. Not only that he also was in favor of Kosovo wear they only found 2000 body in graves. All the canidates running for president have problems with thier past statements votes or Howard Dean alot of people think hes wierd.

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Someone (January 19, 2004)

Yeah i agree if he wins the democratic nominee for president thiers gonna be alot of things said about him many people dont no about him yet, but that always the case.

DUDE you guys shoulld check out this wessley clark guy. If he wins the nomination the Republicans are gonna tearrrrr him up. He bombed a chinese embassy and even was for the warin IRAQ before he changed his mind or running for president. Not only that he also was in favor of Kosovo wear they only found 2000 body in graves not IRAQ, that strange. All the canidates running for president have problems with thier past statements, votes, or Howard Dean alot of people think hes wierd. And u punks have become hippies, NO WAR PEACE ahhh get lost

i hate the poster.. :P

no, dick, its called the free thinking punks, so don't tell me how to think..

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Someone (January 16, 2004)

And since Bush is against all of my ideals, I'm telling you not to vote for him, so fuck off. Yeah... Free thinking, as in, what the media tells you to think. -BSD

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

Fuck you and your media bullshit. All the media tries to portray Bush as the anti-christ. Well, I say Fuck You! and here's to four more years asshole

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Haggard (January 17, 2004)

Hahaha. They make Bush look like an angel. They hardly ever say anything about what he has really done to fuck up the country. Don't give me that bullshit argument. -Justin

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

Don't give me your bullshit argument that any of the fuckup Democratic candidates would be better, because they aren't.

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

thank you. i hate all the idiots saying the media is so "liberal" oh fox news is pretty damn leftist. time magazine made 2003's person of the year "the american soldier" well let me tell you something the person of the year -rapes young girls in okinawa (talking about 12 year olds) - slaughters thousands of innocent iraqis - shoots a cameraman thinking the camera was a rocket launcher (what the hell do they learn in training?) thats a whole lot of "valor"

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

"well let me tell you something the person of the year -rapes young girls in okinawa (talking about 12 year olds) - slaughters thousands of innocent iraqis - shoots a cameraman thinking the camera was a rocket launcher (what the hell do they learn in training?) thats a whole lot of "valor" " Overgeneralization, it's an argumentative fallacy.

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

you're right.. my bad.. but along with "protecting freedoms" blah blah blah, they have also committed those acts, and plenty of others that dont even make it close to headline news.

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

The person of the year: - protects the freedoms and rights you take for granted by living in this country - fights terrorism and evil so you don't have to do it - takes into custody the person actually responsible for "slaughtering" thousands of innocent iraqis

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA... DRONE! BASTARD! YOU ARE THE ULTIMATE WHORE! WE LOOK BACK IN TIME AND SAY THE NAZIS WERE WRONG... WHILE WE COMMIT JUST THE SAME FUCKING CRIME!!! Just... Open... Up... Your...Eyes. -BSD

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

well, you aren't very smart are you?

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

being 12, you have no idea what Germany was under a Nazi regime, so don't even try to make it sound like you do.. people are quick to compare everything to the damn Nazis, and you sound like an ass doing it.. Please try becoming educated before you open your mouth, because you insult the memories of those who died to the Nazi regime, by making the actions of the current Bush administration out to be anywhere near the severity of the atrocities of Hitler and his thugs... Just... Open... Up... YOUR... Eyes, Asshole.

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

Oh fuck you. I suppose you're an 80 year old Holocaust victim. I've read many books on the Third Reich, and I see parallels. Fuck off. You know I just typed out my reasons, but I back spaced just to piss you off. -BSD

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

Nazis,.....Bush......hmm. No comparison. Thanks, you're wrong

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

Someone hasn't read their history books... -BSD

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boba_fett (January 17, 2004)

ie: you

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

Last time I checked, you lived in Canada. So fuck off. -BSD

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boba_fett (January 18, 2004)

lol. my bad.

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

No, but my grandmother is.. and when i mentioned your assine statement to her, she said she felt sorry for your ignorance..

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

Oh so what. My Great Aunt was a Catholic resistance fighter in Yugolslavia, killed krauts alongside Tito and the likes. I don't go whine to her about what someone on some message board said. I wasn't thinking exact statistical similarities... But look at it this way: He's persecuting a religion. He has torn the country apart. He's using the FBI as the secret police. He pushes other countries into letting him war for greedy purposes. Unlike Hitler, though, Bush's economics are really fucked up. World War II was probably the most horrific thing to occur last century, but to say it couldn't happen again is stupid. -BSD

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Someone (January 18, 2004)

15*** -thriceequalsgod

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

fucking tool

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rkl (January 17, 2004)

the U.S. Army protects my freedoms and rights? since when?from what? the only thing that has scared America in the past 10 years is planes nailing the WTC. The military didn't seem to do too great of a job shutting down that fiasco. As far as "fighting terrorism and evil" go, life isn't a DC comic book. And if the U.S. Army is going to take Hussein into custody for "slaughtering thousdands of innocent Iraqis," when are they going to break down the door to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and take one George Walker Bush into custody? oh wait, winners never get accused of war crimes.

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

Brilliant. Literally. -BSD

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

Brilliant if you are judging it on a scall of 1 to dumbass. There is something called foresight and to be safe and make good decisions, you have to have and use it. I think your life would be just a little bit different if we didn't have an US Army. To that extent, why are you even here?

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

Haha, during tear gas training, please inhale as much as possible, Private Cockface. -BSD

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

wow.. what a mature response.. please shut up..

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

Unlike all of you old jerks who never grew out of your "I'm a badass" phase, I don't come here to intelligently argue. I come here to incite arguments. Piss off. -BSD

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Someone (January 18, 2004)

caling someone cockface only incites the argument of whether or not you made it past 3rd grade.. and its quite obvious you are here to argue intelligently..:P

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

The media does not make him look bad. He looks bad by what he does. The media totally slants the sides to make him look good. Open your fucking eyes. -BSD

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

If thats not the fucking pot calling the kettle black.. you say i follow what the media tells me to think, and yet you push your ideals on others.. fuck you..

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Someone (January 19, 2004)
"Yeah... Free thinking, as in, what the media tells you to think. -BSD" You twat, what do you call Fat Mike and his Punk Voter? Yes, that too is actual part of the media. Aside from Fox News, the Media has actually been real troopers about slamming Bush and so on. Perhaps these Conserva-Punks have just had enough of wool being pulled over their eyes by people they are supposed to look up to. I'm not a huge Bush fan at ALL, but I'm not going to be tricked into the idea that Democrats and Liberals somehow have it all figured out. I think some of these kids are just sick of all the lies and are rebelling against the left at the expense of looking like they support the right. Think about Bill Clinton, that guy would tell you WHATEVER you want to hear, just to stay in power. Same with Hillary, she even moved to a new state just so she could find a

show rest of comment"Yeah... Free thinking, as in, what the media tells you to think. -BSD" You twat, what do you call Fat Mike and his Punk Voter? Yes, that too is actual part of the media. Aside from Fox News, the Media has actually been real troopers about slamming Bush and so on. Perhaps these Conserva-Punks have just had enough of wool being pulled over their eyes by people they are supposed to look up to. I'm not a huge Bush fan at ALL, but I'm not going to be tricked into the idea that Democrats and Liberals somehow have it all figured out. I think some of these kids are just sick of all the lies and are rebelling against the left at the expense of looking like they support the right. Think about Bill Clinton, that guy would tell you WHATEVER you want to hear, just to stay in power. Same with Hillary, she even moved to a new state just so she could find a place (any place would do) to stay back in national politics and maintain her power and status.

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

You are not punk!

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Someone (January 18, 2004)

wrong

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Someone (January 18, 2004)

why is that? is it because he is different from the majority of punks?

As an undecided voter, it troubles me that you think punks can't vote for Bush. It troubles me so much, I think you might be in need for an education, from the NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND ACT! haha. but honestly, hush the mouth soon you'll be dead, because life is short. so don't sweat the bushs and deans, : )

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Someone (January 17, 2004)
The fact that you mention the No child act makes me sick. Everyone in a big city isn't affected by this that much. But for me, a teacher in North Dakota, a state with a huge rural population, I see that this "education" act is only killing small schools. For example, by 2006 all teachers must hold a major in the subject they teach. This works for me because I am an English teacher, so I majored in English. However, say you have a small school in Rugby, North Dakota, population 600 people. Look at their science department. Small schools usually have one or two science teachers, so therefore these teachers must be familiar with all types of science, i.e. physics, biology, anatomy, and others. Well under Bush's plan these teachers can only teach what they majored in, even though they may be competent in all areas. These school districts don't have enough money to hire 5 different

show rest of commentThe fact that you mention the No child act makes me sick. Everyone in a big city isn't affected by this that much. But for me, a teacher in North Dakota, a state with a huge rural population, I see that this "education" act is only killing small schools. For example, by 2006 all teachers must hold a major in the subject they teach. This works for me because I am an English teacher, so I majored in English. However, say you have a small school in Rugby, North Dakota, population 600 people. Look at their science department. Small schools usually have one or two science teachers, so therefore these teachers must be familiar with all types of science, i.e. physics, biology, anatomy, and others. Well under Bush's plan these teachers can only teach what they majored in, even though they may be competent in all areas. These school districts don't have enough money to hire 5 different science teachers, so many schools are facing funding problems, some are closing and sending the community's children up to 100 miles away to a larger school. Soon, parents will just decide to move to this town a hundred miles away so their kids don't have to ride the bus for 3 hours every day, in turn killing our precious Rugby. It is a travesty that such a monumental and damaging education plan was developed by one of the most ignorant and illiterate presidents in history. Vote Clark!

Well, sir, you have successfully made me think you are a complete and utter asshole. Since when were these guys around? I'm 22 and started listening to 'punk' rock when i was 11, and I was Rebuplican then, as I am now. Bush isn't bad (imagine that!) He's actually done something to protect our country while Clinton pussy-footed around for 8 years and didn't do shit. The fucking Democrat's stance is to do absolutely nothing until something happens to us, that's a terrible way to operate without foresight don't you think? Also, global warming DOESN'T exist. "Killing them by the thousands??" Are you kidding me? I don't even have to address that.

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FatTony (January 17, 2004)
Protect us from WHAT!?!? All the terrorists that we created??? I'll let you know something, terrorists were around long before 9/11 and they'll be around long after, I can guarantee it. All the duct tape, bottled water, and color-coded alerts in the world aren't going to make us any safer from the terrorists. These things are just tools to keep the general public in line. That's what they do, control you people with fear (and yes, I say "you people" because I don't like the taste of bullshit). You're just a puppet of the system and corporate media, my friend. What about your privacy being invaded by the so-called Patriot Act? Actually, and I'm just guessing here, but I bet you're a white male. So you really have nothing to worry about, so why should you bother yourself with all the black and brown people whose rights are invaded every day in the name of patriotis

show rest of commentProtect us from WHAT!?!? All the terrorists that we created??? I'll let you know something, terrorists were around long before 9/11 and they'll be around long after, I can guarantee it. All the duct tape, bottled water, and color-coded alerts in the world aren't going to make us any safer from the terrorists. These things are just tools to keep the general public in line. That's what they do, control you people with fear (and yes, I say "you people" because I don't like the taste of bullshit). You're just a puppet of the system and corporate media, my friend. What about your privacy being invaded by the so-called Patriot Act? Actually, and I'm just guessing here, but I bet you're a white male. So you really have nothing to worry about, so why should you bother yourself with all the black and brown people whose rights are invaded every day in the name of patriotism because they MIGHT be a terrorist? I'll tell you another little factoid...there's a chance, just a chance, that I, a white male in my mid-20s, that I might be a terrorist. Ted Bundy was a terrorist, Timothy McVeigh was a terrorist, John Wayne Gacy was a terrorist, Charles Manson was a terrorist. Only we prefer to call these white American men "serial killers," just to make them look a little more insane. We like to reserve the word "terrorist" for people who don't look like us. Just another way to institutionalize racism in this land of the free, where all men are created equal. Besides, I thought we weren't supposed to let the terrorists win by interrupting our everyday lives. How much longer does it take to go through the security checks at the airport now? Looks to me like they've won. And global warming does exist, my friend. Thousands of scientists can't be wrong. But it's all OK, because we'll end up destroying ourselves somehow anyway. It's just a matter of time. But the worst thing Bush has done, the most despicable thing he possibly could have done as a human being, is use 9/11 constantly to push his own agenda. Those thousands of people died so that we could "liberate" the people of Iraq (read: take their oil for our own) and furthermore so that Bush could finish the job his daddy started all those years ago. Whatever. Point is that I will not under any circumstances vote Bush in the next election. Whether it be the DOMA, more tax cuts for his already filthy-rich buddies, or whatever other new scheme he's conjured up in the effort to piss me off this week, I will always have a reason to vote for ANY candidate who runs against him and hate his guts as a human being. In fact, his trespassing in the White House for the last few years has inspired me to become more active in the realm of politics and expressing my own opinions. So in the end, I guess you may be right...Bush has done some good.
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boba_fett (January 17, 2004)

"And global warming does exist, my friend. Thousands of scientists can't be wrong." and thousands of scientists say it doesnt exist. maybe you should read up on them and what they have to say.

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

By thousands do you mean a few hundred? Yeah. I like how you can't come up with a response because you are fucking ignorant. -Justin

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boba_fett (January 18, 2004)

no i mean thousands. there was a petition that circulated around europe on which 5000 scientists said they didnt believe global warming was happening.

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

global warming doesnt exist? Are you serious? If you seroiusly believe that the world is not getting warmer and at increasing rates because of humans then why are you raoming fee, why arent you locked up somewhere and tested on. Fuck. I cant get over this, global earming doesnt exist, holy fuck, who are the people coming to this site, someone says "hitler was an extreme leftist" and now, "global warming doenst exist", holy fuck.

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boba_fett (January 17, 2004)

holy fuck! youre an ididot! there are thousands of scientists who say it doesnt exist! wow! theyre all dumb and impotent! you sir, are an ass.

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Haggard (January 17, 2004)

I guess chunks of ice the size of Rhode Island just fall off of Antartica all them time! Oh and I bet the oceans aren't rising too! Maybe the rise of the temperature of the oceans has nothing to do with global warming! Or maybe you're a douche who knows nothing. Yeah, I think so. -Justin

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

boba-fett, basic logic: thousands of scientists saying that something like global warming does not exist (reminmiscent of "the world is flat" and holocaust deniers) does not mean it is so, particularily when that view is respectably overweighed. Why are you in denial of this destructive process that humans are accelerating? Here are two articles that you need to read, or roll your eyes, sigh, grunt, walk away,throw abuse, whatever makes you feel good. http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=21 &ItemID=4812 http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?Secti onID=14&ItemID=4833

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Someone (January 18, 2004)

and heres some articles for you to read, or roll your eyes, sigh, grunt, walk away,throw abuse, whatever makes you feel good. http://www.cs.usask.ca/undergrads/kmb129/490/assignments /assignment_1/against_global_warming.html http://www.sepp.org/ pressrel/petition.html there. now we're even. -boba_fett

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Someone (January 19, 2004)
second like dunt work, But thanks, ive read some similar stuff. it would be stupid of me to try and seriously debate this since im nothing close to a scientist or environmentalist or whatever, but for as much as a naked human mind can come up with: - it doesnt sit well that humans, with all the industrial development, have not contributed to increasing temperatures. - It refers to belief in global warming as a "politically inspired world view", perhaps why right leaning people would adhere to the opposite view, so you can say the exact same thing about disbelief in global warming- a politically ispired world view of the Right. And remeber, the right is not associated with great concern for the environment, particularly when its care is an inconvenience to wealth and oppurtunity to create more wealth (for a select minority). -it says warmer climates are more beneficial than c

show rest of commentsecond like dunt work, But thanks, ive read some similar stuff. it would be stupid of me to try and seriously debate this since im nothing close to a scientist or environmentalist or whatever, but for as much as a naked human mind can come up with: - it doesnt sit well that humans, with all the industrial development, have not contributed to increasing temperatures. - It refers to belief in global warming as a "politically inspired world view", perhaps why right leaning people would adhere to the opposite view, so you can say the exact same thing about disbelief in global warming- a politically ispired world view of the Right. And remeber, the right is not associated with great concern for the environment, particularly when its care is an inconvenience to wealth and oppurtunity to create more wealth (for a select minority). -it says warmer climates are more beneficial than cold climates- its not a case of warm/cold- the earth is getting warmer at a fast rate, this in a short period of time will not allow some animal and plant species to adapt, as in with Australia. in end, its seems to me more wise to investigate the global warming theory given its disastrous outcomes rather than to brush it off as a leftist tree hugging agenda.
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Someone (January 19, 2004)

Second LINK, LINK, not like, woops.

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boba_fett (January 19, 2004)

its nice that somebody on this site isnt an ass. i cant say im a scientist either, so i wont debate anymore. but whatever, we're entitled to opinions and we just have to judge things how we see them.

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Someone (January 18, 2004)

there is global warming.. but unlike people like to believe, it is also a naturally occuring event.. the world has heated and frozen so many times in the past, it is amazing anything is still alive on this planet.. we're about due for another one anyway...

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Haggard (January 21, 2004)

No we're not due for another anything yet. The last iceage ended 10, 000 years ago which isn't that long. -Justin

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

yep, a massively destructive (to infrastructure and human life)bombing campaign over Yugoslavia is what i call pussy-footing around and doing shit too. Yep, not acting seriously on intelligence that forewarned the sep11 attacks is indeed doing something to protect the country. Attacking a defenseless weak nation that posed no threat to the US is and in turn creating more reason for hatred against the US is indeed protecting the country. Theres not a choice of 'attack other countries or just do nothing'. There is a way of going about affairs other than through war, asswipe. The US HAS killed thousands of people in country after country. How biased do you have to be to belive that dropping bombs and using depleted uranium and cluster bombs and enforcing sactions for over 12 years does not kill. Fool. FFFFFUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKK.

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Someone (January 18, 2004)

considering the bombing was done at an altitude to high to be accurate to save lives (the lives of a few pilots but killed many more civilians) is exacly what I call pussy footing around.

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Haggard (January 17, 2004)

Clinton actually had the most comprehensive anti-terrorist plan for any President. Clinton wanted to create a Homeland Security type oragnization but the Republicans shot it down. Clinton warned Bush about Osama buy Bush just ignored him. I think Bush is the one who pussy-footed around. -Justin (actually, your post might be a joke)

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Haggard (January 17, 2004)

but*

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

Clinton also had the ability to kill Osama on more than one occasion, and refused to take the opportunity... and, the plans for the WTC were forged while Clinton was still in his presidency..

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Someone (January 18, 2004)

no actually clinton was offered osama on a silver platter 5 fucking times and turned it down because he said osama wasnt a threat.

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Haggard (January 18, 2004)

Untrue. An unreliable third party said they could negotiate with the Afghan government to get Osama. But that is against American law. Learn something before you post. -Justin

since the Ramones idiot.

I'm with BSD on this shit...you guys are out of your minds. Half the reason i'm part of this scene is to avoid bitches who believe everything that is fed to them.

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PetroBPettson (January 17, 2004)

Well, your average person knows very little about politics and is not involved. Fat Mike is trying to involve more people, and get them on his side while doing so. Nothing wrong with that, especially when the efforts are towards removing that fucker from the white house. Bush is evil, it's not just a bandwagon, it's a truthwagon.

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

actually he's preaching his moronic senseless crap to prepubescent kids who listen to his god-awful music and can't vote. no worries. and in ten years when they can vote, they won't.

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

agreed, glad someone on here has a brain, i mean what more proof do you need than to see that good charlotte and sum 41 are involved? their fanbases are mostly pre-teen/teenage girls, and the only thing fat mike'll get outta putting them on his compilations is more $$$$ in his pockets, not kids voting

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Someone (January 18, 2004)

I am 28 years old, I think of myself as a fairly intelligent person, I love NOFX, I think their music kicks ass. I also agree 100% with his cause. My wife is in the reserves (weekend warrior), and she's been in Iraq and away from her family for over a year now. It's all because of that worthless piece of shit in office. He has been wrong about everything and people's loved ones are dying because of it. He needs to go. TURNCOAT, KILLER, LIAR, THIEF!! I hate Bush, and if anyone is pro-Bush, then I hate you too.

I vote Jorge! Up the P.U.N.X.

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PetroBPettson (January 17, 2004)

ugh!

Agreed. Fat Mike is little more than an oafish man-child, whereas Grafin is both eloquent and actually maintains a tone of civility and logic when criticizing Bush. Bush is a lousy president, but he ain't a nazi. Mike needs to get that through his 13 year old skull.

jack grisham or jello biafra, greg graffin as well

Signed, Fat Mike

Fat mike ya

He wrote an article on the war in Iraq a few months ago I think. You can probably find it at Google. -Justin

i was about to say that, there wont be any purpose, so fat mike'll go back to singing about drugs

I like this guy!

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

i hate him

Reality check.. Bush is just highlighting the job done that the FBI has been doing for years. The difference between Bush and the Presidents before him is..Bush brings this straight to the attention of the people that everyday people are plotting terrorist attacks against us, so that we're scared. Bush is using fear to secure the vote. Hitler also ruled through fear.

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Someone (January 18, 2004)

so bush is a nazi? i dont support bush, but that was just a stupid connection and some bad propoganda.. -thriceequalsgod

people like you give americans a bad name. Do you realise how the rest of the world views your country? Thats why the terrorist attacks happen in the first place. cos you piss off the wrong people.

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Someone (January 18, 2004)

i think it might be jealousy because we have what they want

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Haggard (January 18, 2004)

Or it might be that you buy into the bullshit the media and government feeds you. -Justin

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Someone (January 19, 2004)

I could careless what the rest of the world thinks< im all for americas good not what russia thinks.

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Someone (January 21, 2004)

Try thinking on a world scale. and not just within your christian/rifle dominated country.

You're a fucking moron. Know what the fuck you're talking about before you type. Asshole

Or the country needs another depression to hit. That would straighten everything out. -Justin

Or howwa 'bout we just fuckin' sink one day. Simply sink right into the depths of the motherfucking ocean and never surface. Then the strong pull of our sinking land will pull everyone else in with us. Fuck it. -MATEO D'CAY

punkvoter is indeed a joke, as well as fat mike

Agreed. www.freerepublic.com

Heh. You folks who tell entertainers to shut up ARE HYPOCRITES. You know why? Because you HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. You tell the Dixie Chicks, Eddie Vedder, Rob Reiner, Ryan Adams, George Clooney, Fat Mike, etc, etc that they should shut their mouths if they dare question the president, but then you applaud and holler when folks like Toby Keith and Clint Black support Bush politically and question the patriotism of those who don't. If it were up to you doofuses, all our entertainers would be as vapid as Britney Spears (who said: "You know what, I just think we should support the President's decisions and leave it at that.").

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

No, actually all entertainers should just shut up about politics unless they have something useful or intelligent to say, on either side. In this case, Fat Mike really doesn't know what the hell he is talking about and should just go back to making music.

but it would have been as equally useless.

What corporation does Fat Mike head? That is what we've agreed "corporate" means right? Owned by a corporation. So if Fat Mike owns it, and he's not a corporation, how is Fat Wreck Chords corporate? Just wondering.

Agreed. -BSD

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

Dis-agreed. Reagan, Bush Sr., and GW were all very good presidents. My opinion, my country.

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Haggard (January 17, 2004)

Reagan, Bush Sr, GW, and Nixon were the worst Presidents in the last 100 years. How about you think (or for that matter, get an education) before you post inane shit like that. -Justin

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Someone (January 18, 2004)

hahah nixon was a fucking movie actor, who only got elected because of his popularity.. -thriceequalsgod

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Someone (January 18, 2004)

You mean Reagan? -BSD

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Someone (January 18, 2004)

How about you realize that they (mainly Reagan) saved the entire free world and also created the best economic policy this country has ever seen. The other two have simply supported it and I LOVE IT ASSHOLE!!!!

yea i agree. And those posts are from a bunch of pussies. if you don't have login name, you're irrelevant.

I think Dick Cheney is more dangerous than Bush.

Trust me, the kids who ARE neo-con punks are an extreme minority and an amusing abherration. Regard them with humor! Because they're a fucking joke. (and they repeatedly post as anonymous users to give the veil of strength in numbers - trust me, I've seen one do it personally... although i don't have a lot of credibility in this department at the moment)

Bush may be dangerous, but Dean is worse.

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Haggard (January 17, 2004)

How so? -Justin

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

Because his mommy told him so. -BSD

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Someone (January 18, 2004)

Yes, my mommmy told me that. What a douchebag you are. To answer the question, he's too far left for my tastes, he's always backtracking on what he says, he shoots his mouth off before he thinks, and so on.

This anonymous for president! -BSD

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

Thanks dude! Sorry I had to vent.

Sorry for all the typos. thanks.

wow.. if dean doesn't even get the nomination, its gonna suck to have that tat..

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Haggard (January 17, 2004)

Ha, I was thinking the same thing. -Justin

What proof do we have that Osama actually did it? You can't give me any because it doesn't exist. Most soldiers hate the war in Iraq and if you think that what the media says about the soldiers in Iraq is true, then you are an idiot. If Dean was elected, this country would be better off. He never said the world wouldn't be safer without Hussein, he said we had no reason to invade Iraq because he didn't pose a threat. I honestly don't know how people can support and defend Bush. -Justin

Dun dun dun... The rise of the conservapunks! -BSD

Yea, sure. Right when a democrat gets elected, BOOM! There will be a barrage of terrorist attacks. We are no safer than before 9/11. I, for one, don't think terrorists will be able to pull off an attack anywhere near the significance of 9/11. That fateful day could have been prevented then, and something like it sure as hell won't happen again. I don't support Dean 100% but if he gets the nomination, I will vote for him. Don't give me any of that 'If Bush didn't attack Iraq, then we would be speaking another language by now' bullshit.

People like you are the reason why America makes me laugh sometimes.

so why arent you overseas defending my freedom? huh? HUH? You lazy wimp!!! Why arent you dropping bombs to defend me! Why arent you occuping another peoples to protect me!! Why arent you shooting people in cars so they dont kill me first!!

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CrankWillDestroy (January 17, 2004)

seriously, people like that need to get off their ass and go fight if they believe in it so much.

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Someone (January 18, 2004)

well for one thing it is VOLUNTARY. if he doesnt want to actively fight in the war he doesnt have to but that doesnt mean he can't SUPPORT the troops and the war and what not.

Where are the weapons of mass destruction? you didn't mention them in your delusional spiel. wasn't that the reason why bush started a WAR? another country should invade america to get rid of your time machines. they could be dangerously used for america's gain to change history/future. "but time machines don't exist, america doesn't have any". Thats bullshit. I wanna invade and take over your country and then i'll know. If i don't find any, then it sure is a nice country to take over anyway.

Thank you for showing your complete stupidity and your lack of compassion for our troops. What a complete douchebag you are. I hope karma gives you a nice swift kick in the ass for your inane comment about the troops and "slaugter" comment. Don't think this country is far enough left? Why don't you move to Cuba. I'm sure they're plenty left for you.

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Haggard (January 17, 2004)

Killing over 7,000 innocent people isn't slaughter? Oh, didn't know that. This country is not far enough left. Why don't you move out of this country. It would be a lot better off without you. -Justin

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Someone (January 17, 2004)

it's called WAR. That's part of WAR. Yeah, war sucks. But it wasn't like we marched in that country and purposely killed 7,000 innocents. What bullshit. You know, I wouldn't mind moving out of this country to avoid morons like yourself, but then again, the thought of people like yourself ruining this country would be a crying shame. So, I think I'll stick around and try and help make sure this country doesn't go too far to either extreme.

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Someone (January 18, 2004)

"But it wasn't like we marched in that country and purposely killed 7,000 innocents. What bullshit." - Is that the only circumstance under which killing would be abhorent in this war? I think not. You say killing is "part of WAR",indeed, therefore the US knew they would kill and decided it did not matter that, especially for the sake of control of the region, some sand-niggers got liberated of their life. Its distorted that you consider extreme as being against the killing of people of a weak defensless nation by a ruthless superpower and moderate as condoning the killing of masses of people for domination.

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Someone (January 18, 2004)

defenseless? do you listen to the news? those people in iraq are killing troops everyday? how is that defenseless?

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Haggard (January 18, 2004)

There's a difference between innocent people and soldiers. You are a fool. -Justin

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Someone (January 18, 2004)

you are a fool. they don't have an army, a leader, or a government. therefore no soldiers

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Someone (January 19, 2004)

uh, duh ha ga, no i dont listen to any news...nice ok, eventhough the weapons used and death toll inflicted by the iraqis are quite different, i take your point, but you missed mine: If Iraq was able to put up a reasonable defence against the invasion, they would not have been atacked- look at all the countries the US has attacked- they are all weak poor countries that had no adequate means to effectively fight off THE superpower and its allies.

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Someone (January 18, 2004)

Hahaha... Sorry, my mistake. KILLING THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE IS LIBERATION! Yeah, I'm sure that those innocent people were thinking of how great America and American troops were before they walked outside and tripped over a cluster bomb... "Our troops" ARE murderers. Killing a defenseless human= murder. -BSD

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Someone (January 18, 2004)

Let's never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever go to war again anywhere b/c someone might be walking to the store and accidentally get hit with a bullet and die. Then we would have murdered them! Oh shame!

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Someone (January 18, 2004)

you tool. Its like this site is a magnet for the mentally underdeveloped. "b/c someone might be walking to the store and accidentally get hit with a bullet and die. Then we would have murdered them! Oh shame! " Not only is that obviously a made up scenario by yourself, is suggests youre not aware that people get ripped by shrapnel, have their houses bombed and shot at at checkpoints in this war. I cant believe that has to be explained to someone.

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Someone (January 18, 2004)

Differe scenario, same statement! Let's never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever go to war because someone might accidentally get shot at a checkpoint! Oh no!! I regret the Civil War because some people got shot and killed at the battle of Bull Run because they were having a picnic. What a tragic war that should never have happened! Stupid USA.

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Someone (January 19, 2004)

youre a sad case.... - in addition to other 'scenarios', masses of people got killed by the bombings. -so, that is reason to rejct the war, and future US initiated wars. - The fact that this war, previous wars (not every single one, so dont single out the few isolated cases) and future wars will and have had the same consequences AS WELL as being fought to maintain and strenghten US domination is further reason to reject Americas war drive. So i take you favour this war and other wars involving America, care to give any reason or can i guess- its all about protecting your freedom, promoting democracy and peace. Dont forget.

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Someone (January 18, 2004)

i cant believe pro war people like yourself still say "move to cuba" and in the same comment call other people stupid.

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Someone (January 18, 2004)

Who said anything that I was pro war?

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Someone (January 19, 2004)

ok, then, remove "pro-war" and leave "people".

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Someone (January 18, 2004)

and oh yeah, you say BSD shows lack of compassion for the troops when you show the same lack of compassion for the people in Iraq who get killed by them.

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Someone (January 18, 2004)

Who said I didn't have compassion for those innocents that were killed? Stop assuming jackass.

i dont want this country to be more left. i just want it to be less right.

Those caps hurt my eyes man. -Justin

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Someone (January 18, 2004)

sorry dude. i get your drift, when i read the posted version it felt like i was yelling at myself. good thing im too fond of exclamation points. -mateo d'cay

when you say someone says something like ""AMERICA IS JUST A MASS MURDERER" without admitting "that america is actually a beautiful place to live" (depends on who you are, and what exactly you define as beautiful), they dont have to say that. So there is freedom, that is not unique to America, that does not retract the fact of Americas destruction of life under the guise of freedom democracy or whatever the shit else.

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Someone (January 19, 2004)

Good point. I knew it was kind of iffy when I tagged the "America is actually a beautiful place to live in" line on. I should have said something to the effect of "When they shun any other comment stating another country doing the same". Something like that. Oh well. -MATEO D'CAY

there's very little room for a moderate on these boards

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Someone (January 19, 2004)

Oh believe me, I don't mind squeezing into a noisy This-Or-That crowd to voice my own opinion over theirs. I don't mind at all. -MATEO D'CAY

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Someone (January 19, 2004)

And don't allow yourself to get caught up into thinking that just because a person doesn't believe the bullshit spouting from the Left OR Right, means that person is in the political "middle", if you will. With a mind set like that, you're saying that you believe there are only two sides to American politics. You aren't acknowledging the other views. Don't feel too alone though, there are millions and millions of people just like you. (Broadcasting companies included.) -MATEO D'CAY

Talentless? may i ask what your idea of talented is? with examples?

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Someone (January 18, 2004)

You bet your ass they should!

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Someone (January 19, 2004)
Well, you see Justin, there are a few things that come into play here that you aren't considering 1) IN THEORY, if you cut rates across the board (say...everyones marginal rate goes down 1%) then wealthier people get a larger gross tax cut. But that's only because they make more money. When taxes are raised, the rich get hit the worst, so why shouldn't they get the most benefit when taxes are lowered? I mean, Taxes go up and down all the time throughout history, you've gotta keep some kind of parity through the ups and downs otherwise you'll end up with a situation where 5% of America pays ALL the taxes (which has lots of power implications, that might be kinda bad for the working class). 2) The whole idea behind a tax cut isn't to enrich any specific group of people, it's to put more money into the economy by increasing people's disposable income (yes, even rich

show rest of commentWell, you see Justin, there are a few things that come into play here that you aren't considering 1) IN THEORY, if you cut rates across the board (say...everyones marginal rate goes down 1%) then wealthier people get a larger gross tax cut. But that's only because they make more money. When taxes are raised, the rich get hit the worst, so why shouldn't they get the most benefit when taxes are lowered? I mean, Taxes go up and down all the time throughout history, you've gotta keep some kind of parity through the ups and downs otherwise you'll end up with a situation where 5% of America pays ALL the taxes (which has lots of power implications, that might be kinda bad for the working class). 2) The whole idea behind a tax cut isn't to enrich any specific group of people, it's to put more money into the economy by increasing people's disposable income (yes, even rich people's income). Of course he wants people making hundreds of thousands of dollars to have a big tax cut. That way they'll go out and buy more yachts (simplisticly speaking) and create a bunch more jobs for drydock workers. TANGENT: I remember back in the day when (I forget where) some liberal politician thought it'd be a great idea to tax yachts heavily as a luxury to "stick it to the rich". Well it turned out that people stopped buying them and THOUSANDS of working people lost their jobs in the industry. Kinda ironic huh? Anyway, of course they should get a tax break. If you are going to lower taxes, lower it for everyone PROPORTIONALY (big emphasis). And what is up with all this class warfare bullshit? So what if a bunch of people make alot of money. Doesn't make my life any worse. I'm poor as shit, but I'm working my butt off to get out of that. Will I be a bad person too once I get there? As for those people who are uninsured. Have them call me, I have numbers for PLENTY of employers who would gladly hire them for unskilled labor and supply them with full medical insurance as a benifit. Anyone that says those jobs don't exist are too lazy to, god forbid, actually work a 40 hour week. The place I worked at this past year COULDN'T keep all their positions filled for the life of 'em.

Ummm.. Democracy is not about keeping your mouth shut, so why don't you get the fuck out. Maybe head to China... they're all for keeping your mouth shut

every time i read some rubbish like this i am almost certain its just a joke to piss people off.

white man came to north america and destroyed the native americans, their culture and their way of live....blah blah blah. It wasn't george w bush you're talking about, its his family. not that I support bush in any way shape or form, but hearing things like this, trying to make dubya look evil (when it is already quite evident) make me want to puke. You as a person are not determined by what your cultural history has done, it is what you as a person have done and are doing. If this wasn't the case, I might as well just shoot myself in the head.

Yup, ive read stupid white men and i got dude wheres my country on the go and theres some fucking interestin shit in there. Anyone who thinks they know anything about Bush etc and hasn't read those book needs to do so, cause you don't know shit until you do.