My only complaint is with the guitars not being loud enough. Other than that, it's a good dvd. If you're a BR fan, pick it up.

cause they like to trade off solos and they have tight rythmn.

Why in the hell does a punk band need three guitarists?

to the guy who complains about the stereo and mono (by the way, no idea what you mean by that) mixing, the dvd has no stereo track, its your dvd player who automatically is downmixing the 5.1 track. nevertheless i dont understand how they didnt add an additional stereo track, like many live dvds have, cause it would result in a better sound for everybody. i am listening to it with my 5.1 receiver, and i think the sound is fine, well the guitars could be a little louder and harder.

the dvd has some minor flaws:
-no "real" stereo track
-no international subtitles (only english, would have been very easy to implement that, and they know this dvd is gonna sell well all over the world)
-some unsynchronized scenes thanks to the mixing of the two days, which i thought could have been easily avoided. they had so many cams, do they really need to mix scenes of different days during songs? brett wearing glasses in one shot, and then no glasses, and then glasses again is pretty dumb..

besides that, still a great quality dvd

Great picture, insightful commentary, good history, horrible sound. It doesn't even sound like they have three guitarists.

"the goal of everything is to make money"

Well I know I sure as hell wouldn't go to work if they weren't paying me for my time. Although I suppose if the goal of society as a whole wasn't to make money I could spend all my time playing in my band. I'm certaintly not making any money doing THAT.

Punk started in reaction to corporate labels and bloated arena rock. Punk was a way for kids who couldn't play like Emerson, Lake and Palmer to be able to start something of their own. Isn't that anti-corporate?

The '77 bands that made it really big are still "un-sell-able" because:
1) That was before the punk rock anti-corporate culture was established. They were just fast rock n' roll bands. And...
2)Most of those bands (except the Clash and the Damned, who became more pop) were popular for a year or two before breaking up or fading into obscurity.

Oh, FuckYouOiOiOi, the goal of everything is to make money...which is not good. The fact that a genuine artistic endeavor (like a TV show) has to be exploited is wrong. And, genuine artistic minds (advertisers) are exploiting THEMSELVES for profit.

Tell you the truth, I enjoyed the DVD....however the stereo mix is pretty brutal. I haven't listened to the 5.1 surround mix yet, but the stereo and mono mixes are pretty bad. They didn't mic Hetson's cabinet, which is quite comically noticable (if you don't believe me, find the section of the DVD where Graffin introduces Hetson, and Hetson begins one of the songs [I forget which one]---but you can hear that his guitar isn't miced and is being picked up by some of the other stage mics, which sounds...weird).

Also, the drums are mixed really poorly in the stero mix...so Wackerman's fills (which like you said are admittedly quite good) are pushed so far back in the mix they're essentially lost.

Now, like I said, some of this stuff might have been fixed in the 5.1 mix, but the stereo mix was kinda strange. BUT, all things considered, we're talking about Bad Religion, not the Beatles, so if everything were mixed perfectly I'd probably be equally disappointed.

But, nonetheless, the (non- 5.1) sound quality was kind of a let down.

and the whole 'pretentious' debate is so fucking stupid... Using a word like 'pretentious' is pretentious in itself. so you're all pretentious hypocrite douchebags.

once again, those sellout bands have very little to do with the punk scene. i love green day and i will always find their albums fun to listen to, but I know they are not directly involved with the modern punk scene in any way.

I saw them at an arena show during their last tour and, given the crowd and atmosphere (i was on the top row where everyone was sitting in seats like they were watching a fucking opera), I can say without exaggerating that, aside from the music, it was NOT a punk show. And Green Day is the best major label band.

So, don't get bummed out when 'bands' use a shitty boring strand of punk rock to make money (I'm not saying Green Day is doing this, just those shitty Yellowcard, simple plan, shit). That has nothing to do with the punk scene.

...And if you're pissed off when tv shows have commercials you're a fucking moron. if it weren't for commercials, those shows wouldn't make any money for the network (heres a shocking fact: the goal of networks aren't to entertain you, its to make money!). I hate commercials because they're so fucking condescending, just watch one and you'll see what I mean. But, I have a DVR so I just fastforward through commercials.

"most pretentious lyrics ever?"

Or "most true lyrics ever?" It's not pretentious to point out that this country doesn't like smart people. Heck, you just proved it.

Also, that's one of the worst Bad Religion songs anyway.

BR can do know wrong

look around the country, an abundance you'll find
of mediocre minds
sift through the fodder as sane justice declines
because of mediocre minds
shrouded under cover, the most flamboyant guise
hides a mediocre mind
you got yours but you can never bend mine
with your mediocre minds

when they cry foul you had better watch out
because you never know which aptitude they're griping about
don't act too smart for their stenoscopic ways
you'll be discarded away

reason's not to be what the privileged define
with their mediocre minds
so many sighted people are so helplessly blind
from their mediocre minds

if you want attention then you'll be asked to bend
but the surest insurrection is enlightenment
then you can live outside inharmoniously
without friends and enemy

they wanna keep me locked away
cuz I've an overactive brain

leaders, presidents and the nightly news guys
cater to mediocre minds
reason's not to be what the privileged define
with their mediocre minds
you got yours but you can never bend mine
with your mediocre minds
the only natural thing that I really despise
are the mediocre minds
mediocre minds! (2x)

most pretentious lyrics ever?

I really hope that this new band Bad Religion gets some mainstreem success like that band Green Day has gotten in the past year. I think that they're debut American Idiot kicked ass. I've had it in the CD player of my moms volvo since last october. So anyone whos been hating on these rookies BR just let them keep at it and try to get a fan base.

-Jim
Palo Alto, Ca

teh whole warped tour crowd has seemed to change this band for the worse. They're last few releases have really sucked. They're live shows are lacking intensity and energy. What happened to Bad Religion being Punk. either tehy stop making music or get of VH1.

The Grey Race is better than Stranger Than FIction. Discuss.

both albums are amazing. i dont think ones better than the other really. and what do you mean the grey race is better cuz the song stranger than fiction? that song is soo good. thats a br classic. yep.

The Grey Race is better than Stranger Than FIction. Discuss.

--Cos
(mostly because TGR doesn't have the song "Stranger Than Fiction" on it)

Since when has punks history shown it to be "un-sell-able"? The media coined the term punk rock and the Sex Pistols, Clash, and Buzzcocks were huge.

FuckYouOiOiOi, how old are you, exactly? Do you expect me to believe that you're really sooo much older, wiser, and more punk than I am? Listen: I'm not punk. At all. Okay? I just think exploiting anything for profit is not cool. The fact that TV shows have commercials in them REALLY bothers me. Same w/ preview before movies, or corporate sponsorships for community theaters, etc. Punk rock is something that has a history of being "un-sell-able", but obviously that's not true anymore. And I really do like Bad Religion...as well as other poppy or major-label stuff. Elvis Costello, Toots & the Maytals, New Pornographers, Screeching Weasel, Bauhaus, Hank Williams, Woody/Arlo Guthrie....(Still not bragging)

coolllll thats what i heard

I don't know if anyone mentioned it already, but Tim from Rise Against does the rap on "Let them eat war"....

Bad religion was superb the two times i saw them in 04.
Last year they were terrible both times. So damn boring, even though it was a way better setlist.

thank you feeding5000 for proving that you just got into punk a year ago and have never been to a diy show (or any show for that matter). good charlotte and simple plan are not part of the punk scene, and therefore, cannot destroy it. so to blame an amazing band thats been around for over 25 years and defined the modern punk sound for the shit you see on mtv is so stupid.

i can now never take any of your reviews seriously.

"I like Bad Religion ALOT, they introduced me to Punk Rock...my only problem now is that I can't get into the music like I used to. It's no fault of them.....just many of their "Fans". Their shows are so full of morons and knuckleheads nowadays that the real intensity of it is lost. It's hard to get into music when you're surrounded by a bunch of knuckleheads who only know the band from playing Tony Hawk or same lame shit."

it's the warped tour contingent. just try to start dancing in the pit and you'll get leveled by jocks and assholes who are there to like totally like mosh to sorrow and los angeles is burning bro!

I like Bad Religion ALOT, they introduced me to Punk Rock...my only problem now is that I can't get into the music like I used to. It's no fault of them.....just many of their "Fans". Their shows are so full of morons and knuckleheads nowadays that the real intensity of it is lost. It's hard to get into music when you're surrounded by a bunch of knuckleheads who only know the band from playing Tony Hawk or same lame shit.

and the award for "Most Overused Word @ the Org" goes to.....

PRETENTIOUS!

(applause)

sorry SELLOUTS, maybe next year

Having an IQ above 60 is pretentious.

damn, if that was Mr Brett posting below, Rock on BUDDY!
I agree, FUCK THE HATERS, SAY SOMETHING POSITIVE FUCKERS!!!

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No Substance is awesome, Glad to see it getting some love.

to add to my last comment, it would have been cool for them to represent each album with at least one song. like what about "dont sell me short" or "you've got a chance" from new america. all in all great dvd though.

i agree,no substance is very underrated. i too was dissapointed that no songs from it were on the dvd. they could have played "in so many ways" at the very least.

i was somewhat disappointed that there was nothing from No Substance on here.
that's one of my favorite BR albums.. i think it is very underrated

suffer...dissapointing??

what is wrong with you??????????

"I bought 'Suffer' about three years ago and every song sounds like the 'King Of The Hill' theme tune with "whoa"s in. Disappointing."

This comment made me laugh my ass off, not just because it's hilarious, but also not... really true at all, but it was funny.

bad religion is anything but pretentious, fuckin douche. its not their fault you cant understand what they are expressing.

you know thesaurus core is a term that was coined in a bad religion press release years ago (because besides themselves, their was no such genre) so to use it as an insult against them is pretty silly, and confusing.

and monosyllabic is not a one syllable word, discuss.

wyzo

Graffin has a PhD in evolution/biology from Cornell(correct me if i'm wrong on that) so he's obviously an intelligent guy. So maybe the level of vocabulary he uses in his songs is fitting based on the field of work he's from? Or is it still a strike against him regardless since educated and learned people don't belong in punk rock?

Dude, your comments below said it all. BRAVO!

Bad Religion was an OK band in 1982, and they steadily went downhill from there. By the mid-1990s they were the standard bearers for the thesarus core movement. Face it, Bad Religion's silly, pretentious lyrics rank up there with Kansas and Rush: existentialism for 12 year olds. And these guys are like45 years old now. Not that being old means you can't make good music -- BUT BAD RELIGION CAN'T MAKE GOOD MUSIC. Their trite shit just gets more and more trite and shitty.

Hey, I'll come up with some words that are multisyllabic and that rhyme. And from there you can make a Bad Religion song:
Alliteration
Illumination
Frustration
Justification
Ji ngoistic Nation
Masturbatory Excitation
Social Disentigration
Military-Industrial Miscegenation

On a lighter note, my spelling also sucks.

---Trav.

Bad reliagion sucks.

---Trav.

I agree with Scruffy.

This dvd seriously fucking owns...it is a bit choppy though.

If you seriously think that How Could Hell Be Any Worse? is better than anything post '88, you're hopeless. Seriously. I talk a lot of crap on here, but it's mostly because I'm bored. I'm serious here.
And what "thesaurus-core" movement? BR and Propaghandi? Anyway, why do you think anti-intellectualism is a good thing? Just because their lyrics are smart doesn't mean they're pretentious. I've understood their songs since I was sixteen. I've never understood the large part of American society that actively hates people with large vocabularies.
Not to mention I'd rather hear the so-called "pretentious" BR than the BR of 1980 who wrote the line "the first lady's a fucking les". Or the song "Frogger".

"Hey, I'll come up with some words that are multisyllabic and that rhyme. And from there you can make a Bad Religion song:"

wrong, see, BAD RELIGION can make a song from there, and it would sound awesome, and it would have a meaning.

thats why you are an idiot posting shit on a message board, while those guys tour around the world and entertain million of people with their music and smart lyrics.

thats enough 15 minutes of fame for you, next please.

Bad Religion was an OK band in 1982, and they steadily went downhill from there. By the mid-1990s they were the standard bearers for the thesarus core movement. Face it, Bad Religion's silly, pretentious lyrics rank up there with Kansas and Rush: existentialism for 12 year olds. And these guys are like45 years old now. Not that being old means you can't make good music -- BUT BAD RELIGION CAN'T MAKE GOOD MUSIC. Their trite shit just gets more and more trite and shitty.

Hey, I'll come up with some words that are multisyllabic and that rhyme. And from there you can make a Bad Religion song:

Alliteration
Illumination
Frustration
Justification
Jingoistic Nation
Masturbatory Excitation
Social Disentigration
Military-Industrial Miscegenation

Don't forget the Descendents! They did the whole pop-punk thing years before most bands!
Oh, also Dag Nasty. They brought melody to hardcore, too. Enough that they are referred in some circles as emo!
And don't forget about Husker Du, who were also doing melodic punk years before 1988 (when Suffer came out, which is really the beginning of the BR we know and love, after their long hiatus before that).
Oh, and don't even get me started on bands like Screeching Weasel, Crimpshrine and The Replacements!
Man, those guys (and scores of other bands that were playign melodic punk well before Green Day, including many before BR) helped "awful" bands like Green Day ruin punk.

Bad Religion is one of the best bands of all time. I will have a Ramen Noodle fight with anyone who disagrees with me.

I bought 'Suffer' about three years ago and every song sounds like the 'King Of The Hill' theme tune with "whoa"s in. Disappointing.

"Fallingupwards84 are you really a high school teacher?"

Yes, I graduated from college last year.

does anyone else notice noise fluctuations while watching the dvd? cuz i do. but someone said thats cuz i watched it on my computer, which is how i do watch dvds. so if i watch it on a regular dvd does that mean the volume levels wont go up and down???

I think the only problem with this Bad Religion DVD is that they have so many great songs that they could release two or three DVD's with totally different set-lists and you'd still be able to find songs that they left out that you'd want to hear.

Also I don't have a 5.1 system so it kind of sucks that I can't enjoy all the effort they put into the audio.

To blame a band for sounding the way they naturally do is asinine."

word.

i also wanted to say, that i too like new america, no substance, and the grey race quite a bit. albeit, weaker than their other albums, but incredible in their own right. i think new america is probably my least favorite as a whole. the gray race i think is a fuckin masterpiece. that album seems to be so so so underrated.ok, nuff of my opinions.

JOEG

i wrote a super long, similar comment and then that shit timed out and it got lost. thanks for reproducing my thoughts!

-the other scott

Team rogaine!

Damn you mr brett with your weird look in the DVD kind of like noodles from the offspring

by george, I think we have the next Will in training....

"However, BR is pretty much responsible for the whole crappy major label pop-punk boom, as well as the crappy Warped Tour-type bands. By taking the basic hardcore sound and making it more palatable, they brought punk to...the bands that brought punk to the masses. If not for the success of Suffer, I don't think that Green Day could have "broken" punk."

You make it sound like Bad Religion had this preconceived, devious money making scheme in 1983 to ruin punk rock 20 years down the road by making their music more “safe” for the mainstream and heavily influence the nth generation bands that would eventually ruin punk rock.......that sounds so fucking lame. To blame a band for sounding the way they naturally do is asinine. And of course Greg’s melodic singing had a big influence on their sound. If anything, they stood out from the hardcore mold by BEING melodic when everyone was barking and screaming. Isn’t that “punk“?

By your argument, why stop at Bad Religion? I’m willing to bet Green Day and Offspring and Blink 182 were equally, if not more influenced by the Ramones. How about the Ramones? It's no secret they wanted desperately to be recognized in the mainstream....

"Now Mr. Brett thinks that being successful gives him the right to ruin punk. "

Brett’s success gives him the right to make a living and run his business the way he sees fit. He runs a major label and the guy is out to make money. Crazy, I know. Whatever bands he chooses to put out and whatever he deems is "punk," if even in fact that's the basis on which he signs bands, is his own opinion. And with his resume, he's fully entitled to that, however much you or I disagree. I’m not a fan of the majority of Epitaph bands but so what? If you want to blame anybody for ruining punk, start from 1977 till now when generations of bands just became carbon copies of each other and the generations of kids that followed continued to eat it all up.

Is "I'm in love with my computer" on this?

Thanks to someone for doing a "...I thought this was PUNKnews..." comment. That just restored my faith in the general stupidity of, like, everyone. I have to say, first off, that BR is one of my top 3 all-time favorite bands. I have 6 of their albums (no, I'm not bragging), and I LOVE each and every one. However, BR is pretty much responsible for the whole crappy major label pop-punk boom, as well as the crappy Warped Tour-type bands. By taking the basic hardcore sound and making it more palatable, they brought punk to...the bands that brought punk to the masses. If not for the success of Suffer, I don't think that Green Day could have "broken" punk. Now Mr. Brett thinks that being successful gives him the right to ruin punk. Look at Epitaph's latest stuff: Matchbook Romance, Escape the Fate, Motion City Soundtrack. This is the kind of made-for MTV2 fashion concious pop-rock that is making punk "good business". But, come on! "Punk belongs to the punks, not the businessmen. They need us, we don't need them, punk will never be dead!" Those words are still true after 20 or so years. We DON'T need them. Best Buy offers low prices on the BR DVD: It's also running independent record stores out of business. Epitaph bands appear on the Warped Tour, sponsored by companies like Sony and Circuit City, who just HAPPEN to want to sell "punk rock" CDs, video games, and TVs to a "punk rock" fanbase of rich white teenagers. Brett may not be a greedy person, but when you start a company, it takes on a life of its own. If Epitaph continues after Brett "retires", then what will it be? Just another corporate entity, out for more of your money.

I like 80-85 a lot...it's just a very different kind of BR sound.

In the `80, clip the band looks like what it was: a bunch of teenage punks pounding through their 3-song set with Graffin doing much more screaming than singing and Jay Bentley standing incredibly stoic (compared to his now lively stage performance
i like br a lot better that way. not the stoicism, but the screaming.

I thought No Substance was bad, Grey Race was decent, and New America was really good.

In the interviews they called the period without Brett "the dark years" but to me that seems like Greg just trying not to piss off Brett.

The Gray Race, No Substance, and The New America are all very good albums and I think a lot of the criticism of them from that era comes from people who haven't actually listened to those cd's from start to finish. The New America was actually the cd that got me into BR and punk rock in general.

Fallingupwards84 are you really a high school teacher?

good review, the editing and authoring of the concert/interview mix is poor, doesnt do justice to the music and visual quality.

"do you think they added back up vocals to the show? like in a studio then edited it into the sound mix of the dvd. i mean, im not doubting their ability to do it that good live, but its just a thought i had."

i assume its the mixing, it was mixed for 5.1 surround, and there was an interesting article about it from the guys who did it, but cant find the link at the moment. anyway, my point is, it sounds so good cause they had the chance to focus on the good stuff. but i dont believe they added stuff, thats not br style, listen to tested.

do you think they added back up vocals to the show? like in a studio then edited it into the sound mix of the dvd. i mean, im not doubting their ability to do it that good live, but its just a thought i had.

this should be 10 stars

No multiple angles? I am a drummer who bought the DVD for one purpose. To watch Brooks play. The Vandals DVD has a Josh cam, which is the best thing ever for drummers. I'll have to say I was VERY disappointed that there was no angle function on this DVD. Overall the editing was poor at best. The interviews were great and made the DVD worthwhile.

if you don't think "the show must go off" stuff is edited you are fooling yourself. why does Skiba pull away from the mic in the Alk3 one and you can still hear the vocals just as loud? or watch Warren from the vandals play guitar and listen to the solo on "albacore." they don't match at all.

picked it up, it's awesome. Thanks BR.

"Does this have 'in so many ways on it' I love that song and have never seen them play it."

it doesnt. but it really should. thats one of my favorite songs by them. they never ever really play anything off no substance.

Well..havent seen the DVD yet but, how can any one on this site say that "BAD RELIGION" is not one of the best punk bands of all time! i thought this was PUNKNEWS, not EMO-NEWS....Thats all i gotta say bout that.

"its the venue who sets the prices"

I understand that. Maybe I'm naive, but I think about 95% of punk bands would refuse to play under those circumstances. Also Fishbone played an all ages show for about $10 (with no sort of VIP table bullshit) at the same place about a week after the BR show.

Believe me I looked for any way to defend BR, and am not looking to be a "hater." I just lost quite a bit of respect for a band that I loved since it seems they don't care about their fans.

Does this have 'in so many ways on it' I love that song and have never seen them play it.

great dvd...long as hell...last time i saw them live i paid
like $15...so fuck the guy who made the 1st comment..
its the venue who sets the prices.

Last time BR played here it was a 21 and over show with ticket prices of $55 or "VIP tickets that included a table close to the stage and bottle service for four" that were like $130. At the risk of sounding like Will, that is everything wrong with punk rock. I'm not really an everything has to be totally diy type dude, but you gotta draw the line somewhere. I'll probably be digging Suffer, HCHBAW, and some of the others forever but there is no way I could possibly support these dudes now.

Does this have any good views of the adults with enough discretionary income to get in rocking out at their tables close to the stage? They're usually the same douchbags that think Stranger Than Fiction and the last two are the best BR albums.

This dvd is absolutley great. It's also one of the first dvds without any flaws (such as being off-synched, or the most annoying, that the first track and it's intro is 0 and not 1).

So, does this have pictures or videos of Greg beating it off on a webcam?

was tim from rise against on this for that one song on the new album

Yeah I got mine for 13.99 from Tower. It was worth it. I also forgot to mention that the sounds are synced up with the video 100% of the time.

I know big chains aren't "punx", but Best Buy has this fucker on sale for $13 this week.

This DVD is ficking intense...Sorrow kicks some major ass...

Most pretentious band ever (lyrically)?


i remember listening to Recipe for Hate on tape back in 6th and 7th grade and singing along to every word. problem was i didn't understand what i was singing about, now i've graduated college, and i understand a good 75% of what greg's singing about.

the guy's not pretentious, he's smart.

i really wanna pick that one up...damn not having money

im not gonna complain about the footage being spliced and whatnot because the "along the way" dvd is much guitier of the two. i will say that the action you do see is just to frantic and you don't see the same view for very long. excellent from what i saw. i must have it

"Most pretentious band ever (lyrically)?"

its because you are too stupid to try to understand them

Most pretentious band ever (lyrically)?

great DVD

greetings from Switzerland

Fuck the haters, they are not punk

Good DVD if you like Bad Religion, which I do, but I'm biased.

-Brett

ps - yes I still visit this site despite all the haters.

pps - yes it's really me.

ppps - oh never mind!

someone once told me there wasn't much a difference between yellowcard and bad religion except the lack of vocal talent.

i need to get this asap.

Second best live DVD I've seen. My favorite would have to be the Vandals one because the sound quality is superior on that one.

The interviews were really interesting on this one. I found it funny how they interviewed that middle aged guy and he acted like he was a huge fan who had passed down his punk roots to his daughters................yet when they asked him what his favorite BR song was he couldn't even remember the name of the song lol.

When I first looked at the setlist from this show I was kinda dissapointed but after watching the DVD I think it was a great set! It gave me new found interest in some of their songs I haven't listened to in a long time.

Nice review. I wish I had some money to pick this up.

"The most over rated punk rock band of the past 25 years.
Bar none."

i felt that way for a long time. then about 4 years ago, i began to understand, thanks to suffer, and now i love every album.

who?

" I worship Greg Graffin"

When you were in 5th grade? He probably would have worshiped you too.

The most over rated punk rock band of the past 25 years.

Bar none.

yea i noticed the glasses being on brett one second, and off the other. but if you dont focus on it much it doesnt really fuck up the viewing experience. any fan of br should pick it up. the interviews really give you a good feel for these guys personalities. jay is such a fucking goofball. i love him. haha. they are all really cool guys. im never going to shut up about wanting "god song" on this dvd. ok ill shut up about it. but! its one of the their top 5 songs, hands down.

Fuck bad religion.

Bring that shit...I know it's coming.

This DVD is very good. That's interesting about the editing, I didn't notice that when I watched this for the first time. The piano version of Cease is great. The sound quality is excellent. The 80 -82 clips are halirious... Greg is a goofy teenager and Brett is an angry serious guy. .. but then again, Greg is still goofy at whatever age he is now. Brett mellowed out a bit.
Totally worth picking up this DVD.

"For example, during several songs Mr. Brett has his glasses on, and then in the next shot, they are off."

i'm a little confused by what you mean here. not likely but do you mean during a song they used clips from different nights or that they used songs from both nights? i love bad religion but i don't know about this. i hate that herky jerky style where there's like 10 different camera angles and they use all of them in a 10 second frame.

gotta pick this bad boy up

I watched this on VH1 and it was terrible. Again, the only good stuff this band did was on "How Could Hell..." or 81-85 or whatever it's called.

This is just based on what I saw on Vh1