the faux English accent is what pisses me off

...and made the pop-punk kids think you were a jesus freak.

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JayTee (July 8, 2008)

Not really, punk was punk was punk. There wasn't as much sub-genre discrimination as there is now. Although I do remember thinking people who went to Youth-Groups we're fucking lame.

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baldsteve (July 8, 2008)

I don't know how old you are, but in '97, "punk" wasn't just "punk" it was just as separated and retarded as now, maybe even more so... you were either too young or not paying attention.



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JayTee (July 8, 2008)

Moreso?!

This entire website is a monument to my point!

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baldsteve (July 8, 2008)

I don't understand your point at all. You seem to be saying everything was cool until the late 90's.

Its not the internet making dividing lines in genre...it just speeds it up. Go grab some issues of MRR from 90-93 and read the letters... Epic bitching about the years 'punk broke'

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JayTee (July 8, 2008)

"There wasn't as much sub-genre discrimination as there is now. Although I do remember thinking people who went to Youth-Groups we're fucking lame."

What to you sounds like I said "everything was cool"?

Punk was tighter back then, so it was more like Civil War than World War, and YES the internet has brought voices to every last asshole on the planet which has significant impacts on the evolution of "interest groups".

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baldsteve (July 8, 2008)

Your first sentence makes me say that. By 1997 shit was all over TV and the very opposite of 'tight'.

The discrimination has been around in full force forever.

the only people that wore mxpx shirts at my school were assholes, but that was more like '99/00. i think thats why i will never be able to give this band a fair chance. that, and they suck and theyre a christian band.

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JayTee (July 8, 2008)

Hence "on and off fan". That style of pop punk was up for grabs by total idiots by the time "All The Small Things" was a steady single and everything went to shit.

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fallingupwards84 (July 8, 2008)

its funny how some bands get stuck with the dreaded "christian" label and others don't

Thrice has way more Christian-themed songs than MxPx, yet i never hear anyone call Thrice a Christian band. i think MxPx has written two or three songs in the last 10 years that could even come close to being considered "christian"

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JayTee (July 8, 2008)

Don't forget Bad Brains.

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JayTee (July 8, 2008)

Yikes, before I get attacked, I mean Bad Brains are obscenely religious, not necessarily christian.

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fallingupwards84 (July 8, 2008)

very true (not knocking the Bad Brains, ive got love for them)

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Tom1022 (July 8, 2008)

dude, i hear people call thrice a christian band all the time, especially on this website.

You say that as if its a good thing.

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JayTee (July 8, 2008)

It was a good thing. I know it's so cool to be up Maynard's ass these days, but back then they were just one in a million alterna-gloom bands for scummy looking Dungeons and Dragons dudes to be into.

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SydBarrett420 (July 8, 2008)

JayTee please stop your ignorant posting. You do realize Aenima was released in 1996 and was a major smash right? I really have to ask how old you were in the mid 90's because it sounds like you have no idea what you are talking about.

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shot_in_the_dark (July 8, 2008)

I wish it weren't so, but bands like Tool make me feel ill. It's probably more the aesthetic associated with numetal than the music itself, well no, the sound is cringe worthy as well.

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SydBarrett420 (July 8, 2008)

Shot, Tool is Nu-Metal??? I see you are another ignorant fool has has no idea what they are talking about.

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shot_in_the_dark (July 8, 2008)

Excuse me, alt-metal.

Pokinatcha was a good trashy skate punk album, unfortunately it's also the most Jesus-y.

I remember I picked up a used copy of Life in General the same time I picked up a copy of some Voodoo Glow Skulls album. I thought I was the raddest 16 year old ever.
-Dante

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royalt (July 8, 2008)

Same with me, except instead of VGS it was Strung Out.

Pokinatcha was such a great album. Even though there are too many literal Jesus references.

Doesn't bother me at all, I listen to a lot of Bad Religion too so I like the opposing viewpoints.

I agree, though it might be one of those reactions we tend to have while following one band's career. The more the band release albums, the better you think the "previous album" was, you know?

But again, by the time Slowly Going The Way Of The Buffalo came out, I though it was getting too commercial. Maybe, in fact, it was, but what a fucking great album!
I mean, just listen to "The Theme Fiasco" tune, that one would blow anyone's ears!

I still can't believe people try to put them down by saying they are a Christian band!

Give them a break, "for Christ's sake!"

=)

and Jesus.

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SloaneDaley (July 8, 2008)

Jesus has been delt with.

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baseball (July 8, 2008)

Hahahaha.

You are right except for the finger-banging part. It would make Jesus sad, so they wouldn't do that.

If Lagwagon opened for mxpx that would really be wierd!

I mean, I'm speaking about age and careerwise.

Ps: I love both bands, so it wouldn't actually matter for me.

Only 3 years ago I went to warped (first and likely last time) and MXPX was on the main stage immediately before the headliners went on and there were droves of people singing along. Granted, the huge crowd could probably be attributed mostly to kids getting their boners ready for Fall Out Boy, but the fact that they were even on the main stage was cool. I only new the songs because of 10 years and running.

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jacknife737 (July 8, 2008)

I saw them play the main stage at warped 05, the crowd was mid-sized, but enough to easily justify them being there, plus they are pretty fun live.

Its a co-headlining tour. they switch every other night who headlines.

They should hang it up

I totally agree, as soon as they dropped the forbidden beat they haven't been the same. Just really bland stuff starting with The Everpassing Moment...

they haven't had Christian songs since 1995... unfortunately they still get stuck with the label

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kako_nd (July 8, 2008)

I think Tooth & Nail still have some rights on them (not to mention those shitty compilations), but they're on Side One Dummy for new releases, so forget about T&N and the whole 'christian band' thing.

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baldsteve (July 8, 2008)

Once you give your heart to jesus, he doesn't give it back. They are stuck with the label.

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tombagel (July 8, 2008)

Unfortunately you're not too bright. "Foolish" is a Christian song.

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fallingupwards84 (July 8, 2008)

let me rephrase - they havent written any blatantly Christian songs since 1995... and the more subtle ones are only about one or two per album

(Literally)
Oh my God!
Here we go again!

Stuck with the label or no one wants them, hey maybe they should hook up with Bridge 9.

If you don't consider this pop punk, I don't know what to make of you.

well said.

idiot.

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misfit949 (July 8, 2008)

This coming from someone promoting a FUCKING WEBSITE FOR PSYCHICS? bwwwhahahahhahaha

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theJUNGLEbrook (July 9, 2008)

haha. did you LOOK at that guy?! who wouldnt wanna spread that guys face on anything they could. hes wearing a styrofoam ball for a wig!

Shut the fuck up. For all the chastisement that gets flung around on here about discrimination you'd think that we could at least have some consistency. Punks welcome the abandoned and downtrodden and persecuted from everywhere else. In this society nobody catches as much flack as the skinny kid in the corner in a swimmy WWJD shirt.

Realize that most Christians are not the fucking Pope. Most christians are not televangelists. Most christians don't protest outside abortion clinics. You are very fucking misinformed about the nature of most christians. You want to be punk? You want to rebel against the status quo? Stop attacking the easy target and have the balls to judge people individually, you remedial asswipe.

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misfit949 (July 8, 2008)

Oh yes, pity the poor, poor, persecuted Christians. They have endured so much! Are you fucking kidding me?

"You are very fucking misinformed about the nature of most christians"

50% of United States Christians believe the world is less than 6000 years old. That is all I need to know.

Go fuck yourself.

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shot_in_the_dark (July 8, 2008)

Ok. So, if I'll humor you by accepting your arbitrary statistic, half of them agree with you and half disagree. At least that means there's been some thought put into the subject (unlike your response). By the way, what the fuck do you know about science? Not enough to condemn anyone for their lack of knowledge.

Shit, why am I even arguing with you. You're probably incapable of really believing in anything. But tell me, do you hate Buddhists, Jews, and Muslims too? Or are you just so comfortable going after christians because you see others and know you'll probably get away with it?

Fuck you.

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theJUNGLEbrook (July 9, 2008)

finally someone on this site thinks with a little logic. ive wracked my brain trying to come up with a reason that it made sense for every belief system to be ok except for christianity and conservatism/republicanism. the world (or at least the internet) would be a better place if these simpletons ever thought with their own heads instead of paraphrasing bad religion lyrics.

well done, my friend. well done.

Ugh you mental midgets just don't get it. In your ultra politically correct and intellectually vacant world NOBODY can be critical of your backwards and life destroying faiths. I'm the most critical of Christians because guess what genius... most people in this country (USA) are.....GASP..CHRISTIAN! WOW But yes ALL faiths that teach its followers that GOD requires you to murder your children for talking back, murder neighbors of different faiths, stone homosexuals, murder anyone caught working on the sabbath, as well as explicit instructions for selling your daughter into sexual slavery; is apparently beyond the scope of rational discourse for you.

I'm not wasting another minute of my time with homeschooled apologists, educate yourselves.

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theJUNGLEbrook (July 10, 2008)
"GOD requires you to murder your children for talking back, murder neighbors of different faiths, stone homosexuals, murder anyone caught working on the sabbath, as well as explicit instructions for selling your daughter into sexual slavery"

educate yourself, dipshit. and me for that matter. find me the verses (with proper context) that illustrate your eloquent synopsis of the christian faith. if youd look at the only christian to ever be completely flawless in any aspect of life (jesus, duh) youd find that the company he kept closest to him were prostitutes, thieves, tax collectors (crooked politicians), etc. you think he was just forgetting to act out that weeks bible command? you think he just forgot to kill all the people around him? he is the reason for the whole deal in the first place, so if anyones gonna embody exactly how to do christianity right ITS GONN

show rest of comment"GOD requires you to murder your children for talking back, murder neighbors of different faiths, stone homosexuals, murder anyone caught working on the sabbath, as well as explicit instructions for selling your daughter into sexual slavery"

educate yourself, dipshit. and me for that matter. find me the verses (with proper context) that illustrate your eloquent synopsis of the christian faith. if youd look at the only christian to ever be completely flawless in any aspect of life (jesus, duh) youd find that the company he kept closest to him were prostitutes, thieves, tax collectors (crooked politicians), etc. you think he was just forgetting to act out that weeks bible command? you think he just forgot to kill all the people around him? he is the reason for the whole deal in the first place, so if anyones gonna embody exactly how to do christianity right ITS GONNA BE CHRIST! he never killed a single person. he humbled himself to the point of washing prostitutes feet to show that there, in fact, was no such thing as lesser than; and then further to the point of dying to save the souls of all the so-called "sinners. anything youre getting out of the bible that instructs anyone to kill anyone else is from the old testament which became null and void when jesus came to earth. the old testament is the jewish law, or the "way". jesus explained that once God sent him to earth he became the way, the truth, and the light and that whoever gets on board has eternal happiness in heaven. his main order to his followers is to love their neighbors even if AND ESPECIALLY IF they dont love them back. much like his own presence. he loves the whole world even though braindead rhetoric monkeys like yourself could give two shits. yeah, that sounds really harsh and wrong-headed.

good assessment, moron.

Ops, you picked their most-hated two songs, dude! Unfair.

Try "Andrea", "The Theme Fiasco", "Do your feet heart?".

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kako_nd (July 8, 2008)

I meant, 'hurt'.

The singer from Lagwagon's voice makes the hairs on the back of neck stand up. He annoys the living shit out of me.

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fallingupwards84 (July 8, 2008)

i'm with you... Lagwagon's music = awesome, vocals = cringeworthy

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MySafetysHarvard (July 8, 2008)

joey cape is a saint

Not too into this band, but Let it Happen is a rad song.

I remember times I had
some were happy some were sad
memories of me and my partners in crime
throwing up a thousand times

God hates us allllllllllllllllll
God hates us allllllllllllllllll

Buddy, you've gotta branch out if that's the best pop-punk cd you've ever heard.

Give any 90's band credit for staying around? I don't think I have to give them that.
There are so many 90's bands around which have nearly entered obscurity unable to abandon their ship hoping to resurge. I call it pathetic, and it seems most have lost their integrity. MxPx maybe. But let's look at Collective Soul, Gin Blossoms, Unwritten Law, Ataris. I think I rest my case.

You must be very proud of yourself.

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soundforlanguage (July 8, 2008)

Are you a christian? if so, fuck you. Stop living a lie.

If you're not, ignore first sentence(s)

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christian (July 8, 2008)

Grow up.

periods are stoked...................................

umm... what?

i wish all of their records sounded like LIG

Yeah you really haven't done your research if you think all their albums sound the same.

and it looks like you caught it too

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Wentz_Equals_Death (July 8, 2008)

epic

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Cloudkicker (July 8, 2008)
First of all, by asking a question like that I'm trying to get perspective (at least something that I may have not considered), so that's trying to broaden my horizons, not close my mind. I just stated my opinion after it, which you apperantly found close minded. Fair enough, though I disagree. I asked the question to get as many different answers as I could.

As for punk being a reaction to religion, yeah it's a subjective comment, but not without merit or warrant for discussion. A lot of prolific punk bands responded to the bogus messages/flaws that religion has to offer - more so than probably any other style or scene of music. Thus religious punk seems counterintuitive to me.

I don't judge bands by the personalities that form them; I try and enjoy the music and then see if the message gels. If it doesn't, then I'm going to have a

show rest of commentFirst of all, by asking a question like that I'm trying to get perspective (at least something that I may have not considered), so that's trying to broaden my horizons, not close my mind. I just stated my opinion after it, which you apperantly found close minded. Fair enough, though I disagree. I asked the question to get as many different answers as I could.

As for punk being a reaction to religion, yeah it's a subjective comment, but not without merit or warrant for discussion. A lot of prolific punk bands responded to the bogus messages/flaws that religion has to offer - more so than probably any other style or scene of music. Thus religious punk seems counterintuitive to me.

I don't judge bands by the personalities that form them; I try and enjoy the music and then see if the message gels. If it doesn't, then I'm going to have a hard time accepting it. Despite Johnny Ramone being a republican, it didn't have a barring on the Ramones' message, otherwise songs like "Bonzo Goes to Bitburg" probably wouldn't ring out the way they do. That said, I don't hate on a band like Shai Hulud because a couple of the dudes are Christian.

Thinking about it all, I just find punk to be a conundrum because it encourages differences, but then shits on them just as well; all of us being part of the guilty party at one point or another. Anyway, I appreciate the response.

There are so many spectrums of religion that it would be impossible to draw any conclusion like that. There are always varying degrees of belief. I know many Christians who simply see the moral guidance as a helpful way to teach their children the difference between right and wrong, to be a good person. They see the teachings in the Bible as simple stories. Not every member of any religion is a James Dobson.

You're a member of the Punknews community. Can you say that there's never a moment when you disagree with something posted on the site? Simply being a part of something has no weight on whether or not you're willing to ask questions.

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ludwigg (July 8, 2008)

that's why i said it's subjective and individualistic. everyone is different. Some people see the teachings in the Bible as simple stories, others take them literally and freak the fuck out of me.

i would actually hope you would ask more questions if you decided to belong to some organization.

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MrStylson (July 8, 2008)

Also, who's to stop someone if, after asking questions, he/she decides to believe in a God or some other level of spirituality?

Just because you and I look ask the questions and draw a different conclusion doesn't mean everyone else will line up behind us.

That person you see leaving Church might be the biggest believer in the congregation, but they also might've been the most skeptical to start with.

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MrStylson (July 8, 2008)

- "look"

Grammar, when will you just let me be?

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ludwigg (July 8, 2008)

what about my comment are you not getting? i don't expect anyone to line up behind someone else.

i am saying it's individualistic. TO EACH THEIR OWN. one person believes in one thing. the other in another. whatever conclusion they have reached is hopefully the product of some well asked questions.

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MrStylson (July 8, 2008)

Everything I have posted has been agreeing with you. Chill out.

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ludwigg (July 8, 2008)

ha, sorry. i read it as you misinterpreting my point, when you were actually sharing it.

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MrStylson (July 8, 2008)

No worries. The internets be confusing sometimes. The tubes are always twisting and turning.

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Cloudkicker (July 8, 2008)
The majority of Americans (statistically speaking) trust atheists the least of any group (racial, religious, etc), I'm guessing probably because they don't have blueprint (insert religious text here) to layout what's morally acceptable. I'm bringing this up because it ties into my question.

Rejecting religion goes hand in hand with what makes punk smart (bare with me). Questioning authority, revelation, revolution, diy, challenging convention are all, arguably punk's biggest traits (beneath the surface of manic panic, studded leather jackets and a shocking wardrobe). Atheism/Being agnostic also carry those traits, more so than I've found most religions do. The school of thought that goes into those ideas mirror how punk responds to a lot of conventional bullshit. Think about it. Not believing a higher power forces one to be responsible for oneself and their actions (mu

show rest of commentThe majority of Americans (statistically speaking) trust atheists the least of any group (racial, religious, etc), I'm guessing probably because they don't have blueprint (insert religious text here) to layout what's morally acceptable. I'm bringing this up because it ties into my question.

Rejecting religion goes hand in hand with what makes punk smart (bare with me). Questioning authority, revelation, revolution, diy, challenging convention are all, arguably punk's biggest traits (beneath the surface of manic panic, studded leather jackets and a shocking wardrobe). Atheism/Being agnostic also carry those traits, more so than I've found most religions do. The school of thought that goes into those ideas mirror how punk responds to a lot of conventional bullshit. Think about it. Not believing a higher power forces one to be responsible for oneself and their actions (much like being straight edge or vegan is taking personal responsibilities). Since Religion has such a stronghold on issues of birth control, abortion, lack of sex education, so on and so fourth that even as a spiritual escape, subscribing to something as iron age as religion seems that it goes against some of punk's best principals. I know not every punk band stands for the aforementioned and neither does every punk - by a long shot - but it just feels wrong to listen to a "punk" band to preach religion (again I understand not every band that is somewhat religious does that in the slightest).

Sorry if my opinions are coming off like blanket statements or as if I'm speaking for all involved in punk. I'm not and not trying to show that punk should be this or that. Im just trying to clarify.

And to answer your question, MtStylson, of course there's tons of shit I disagree with on the site - it's what keeps me coming back!
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MrStylson (July 8, 2008)

I can agree with what you've said, but to get hypothetical for a moment. Conventional wisdom could be construed as science. Science, in my humble opinion, says without hesitation that most aspects of religion are not possible. I tend to agree with science on this. Does that mean I'm aligning myself with convention? Am I less "punk" for this belief? And would that mean that maybe the people who see the fossils and say "fuck that" and align themselves with creationist belief, are they suddenly more "punk" for doing so?

Basically what I'm getting at is that however interesting this might be, no definite conclusions can ever be drawn. That said, these kind of discussions are fun for me, so keep it coming.

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ludwigg (July 8, 2008)
"I know not every punk band stands for the aforementioned and neither does every punk"

I feel like I just read some dialogue from SLC Punk or something. I hate that movie.

The one thing I don't know if you are seeing is that we are humans before anything else. We have problems, we have issues. We have ways to express those issues. If you were to say to me in the 1970's that it was wrong to preach about God and country in the music, I maaaaaaybe would have agree, mostly bc the purpose of the music was different. But I don't think you're argument really holds up in the present day. It's about many different things now.

When I was a 14 year old kid with The Exploited patches on my bag, I would have agreed with you and said YEAH MAN PUNK ROCK, UGH! But I'm not like that anymore. I don't consider myself "a punk" *ugh shudder* yet I

show rest of comment"I know not every punk band stands for the aforementioned and neither does every punk"

I feel like I just read some dialogue from SLC Punk or something. I hate that movie.

The one thing I don't know if you are seeing is that we are humans before anything else. We have problems, we have issues. We have ways to express those issues. If you were to say to me in the 1970's that it was wrong to preach about God and country in the music, I maaaaaaybe would have agree, mostly bc the purpose of the music was different. But I don't think you're argument really holds up in the present day. It's about many different things now.

When I was a 14 year old kid with The Exploited patches on my bag, I would have agreed with you and said YEAH MAN PUNK ROCK, UGH! But I'm not like that anymore. I don't consider myself "a punk" *ugh shudder* yet I do still listen to punk music. I grew up roman catholic *ugh shudder* but I don't really share those beliefs anymore and yet my apartment has catholic art pieces in it, bc i love religious art. People change. While I do subscribe to a lot of things that can be categorized as things within both the "punk community," and catholicism, I don't necessarily belong to either. I think you are coming from a total purist point of view, and that's fine, but what you should maybe take into account is that everything doesn't need to be so black and white. You aren't going to be some hypocrite if you listen to Operation Ivy and attend Sunday church. You get something out of both of those things for whatever reason.
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Cloudkicker (July 8, 2008)
"You aren't going to be some hypocrite if you listen to Operation Ivy and attend Sunday church. "

That made me lol.

Maybe I'm too high on a Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins kick, but I can see why my thoughts reflect how a purist thinks, though I really try not to be one, especially with punk rock. And I agree with most of what you said in your last post especially about being human before punk. In fact calling a punk a "punk" is really a rareity these days. I remembered when I noticed I started calling people "punk kids" instead of punks and wondered why I did that, but calling people punks has a weird ring to it now. Maybe it's just getting old.

Anyway, after I made my last post I had sort of a moment of clarity and come to terms with something. Just because something isn't punk doesn't mean someone is less punk fo

show rest of comment"You aren't going to be some hypocrite if you listen to Operation Ivy and attend Sunday church. "

That made me lol.

Maybe I'm too high on a Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins kick, but I can see why my thoughts reflect how a purist thinks, though I really try not to be one, especially with punk rock. And I agree with most of what you said in your last post especially about being human before punk. In fact calling a punk a "punk" is really a rareity these days. I remembered when I noticed I started calling people "punk kids" instead of punks and wondered why I did that, but calling people punks has a weird ring to it now. Maybe it's just getting old.

Anyway, after I made my last post I had sort of a moment of clarity and come to terms with something. Just because something isn't punk doesn't mean someone is less punk for it. For example, I don't think drinking and eating meat is punk (which I do and here's the ironic thing - I find straight edge and veganism extremely punk), but just because someone does something that isn't punk doesn't make them less punk. I think that hating religion has clouded my thoughts a little and made me seem so black and white.

For the record though, religious art is fucking rad!

well if your refering to punk in the american hardcore/underground 82-ish to 86-ish then no not really. To me thats where punk ideals and a scene and whatnot come about before that it was just music or cliques and it is pretty anti-religion in general. I'm talking about the bearded judge in the sky asshole particularly.

If you are talking about higher power? who knows. I am more powerful than a sparrow but what the fuck does that make me.

uh..

Talk to Joe Queer first.

Johnny Cash also seems to be the exception to the hating country rule. How often do you hear punk/rock fans say they hate country...except for Johnny Cash?

I agree except for the part between "100% stoked" and "sing about it"

The music sucks, and God is an illusion.

not.