Ok, I accept that the guy you work with isn't an asshole.

Peta is the type of antifeminist bullshit keeping me away from people who support peta.

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SloaneDaley (May 6, 2009)

hmmm I wasn't aware of their antifeminist stances (unless you are fucking with me) care to elaborate?

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scientistrock (May 6, 2009)

Their work with playboy and the campaign with Alicia Silverstone that basically said, "wanna not be fat? Go vegan!" That campaign in particular was playing on a lot of already fragile psyches.

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SloaneDaley (May 6, 2009)

I always think that it is kind of sad if you look at a playboy from the 1960's while the magazine did promote a very rigid kind of male essentialism (guns, smoking, alcohol etc.) and the women were often painted in makeup they looked relatively healthy and natural. However, they have since increasingly promoted an extremely glossed-over view of both genders. Peta should be ashamed to work with them.

and the idea that being vegan will automatically make you healthy is a myth, it can be very dangerous for some people.

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crackpotdemagogue (May 6, 2009)

the only thing fragile here is your argument

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scientistrock (May 6, 2009)

Fuck it, you're right, target girls with body-image problems!

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crackpotdemagogue (May 6, 2009)

my god.. why do people continually regurgitate this peta 'anti-feminist' myth? because peta uses images of women scantilly clad as part of some of their campaigns does not at all correlate to 'anti-feminism' - and if you think it does, then you are either a) dillusional or b) politically confused.

and anyway - feminism as a 'liberationist' ideology is itself a broad field... i.e there are the pro-porn feminists vs. anti-porn feminists...

People like to dismiss PETA because they are often crude and 'in your face' with their campaigns; yet it's a difficult one, because essentially people's anger (directed against peta) stems from ignorance and from not liking being told that they are participants in the perpetual infliction of suffering.

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scientistrock (May 6, 2009)

I've got no problem with using the "in your face" campaign stuff personally, but it clearly doesn't work. Targeting young girls with body image problems is horrible though.

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crackpotdemagogue (May 6, 2009)

what's more horrible... the existance of a meat industry that slaughters annually in excess of several billion creatures (unnecessarlly) for the purposes of human consumption / profiteering, or an activist organisation trying to target a generation of diet infactuated women with the fact that not consuming animal derived produce will help you loose weight?

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scientistrock (May 6, 2009)

The problem is that there are probably more effective means of advocacy. I don't eat meat, and am trying to go vegan and do so without giving money or support to peta because I don't support their methods. But whatever, it's totally fair to be a dick to me.

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crackpotdemagogue (May 6, 2009)

hmm, the thing is, their advocacy reflects society. they have to be crude and sensationalist because we live in a tabloid society where people often seem blind to anything other than sensationalism. veganoutreach are a good example of alternative advocacy i suppose, their methods are a bit less scandal orientated. good on you for trying to go vegan... it's really not at all difficult once you get there. it's all about breaking habitual consumption habits / realising there are alternatives

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scientistrock (May 6, 2009)

I've had some experience with vegan outreach. I like what they do.

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SloaneDaley (May 6, 2009)

I think misleading a human is wrong because it gathers people around a cause for completely the wrong reasons. You can't expect a concept to succeed on the back of false claims. I'm a vegetarian/aspiring vegan and to care about any animalsespecially is rather silly. factory farming destroys sustainable ecosystems that we need in order to thrive, if a billion cows die in order to preserve that so be it but right now it isn't it is just impulse driven greed.

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Zombie-Guru (May 6, 2009)

I was a vegetarian for years based solely on this reasoning, and to this day I won't eat factory farmed meat. It's really all about the environmental aspect.

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crackpotdemagogue (May 7, 2009)

yea, who gives a fuck about suffering, cruelty, killing... fuck the animals, it's all about the environment

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Zombie-Guru (June 1, 2009)

You really can't argue this point to every one. A lot of people just don't care. I think more people care about the environment. I'm not saying I condone the suffering of animals, I just think it's a weaker point because people usually pull out some Darwinist bullshit argument.

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eyepatchguy (May 6, 2009)

Some people also "dismiss" PETA because of their ridiculous stance on certain issues, their hypocritical CEO, and the murder of over 21,000 odd cats and dogs while taking in millions of dollars.

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crackpotdemagogue (May 6, 2009)

references please? and what 'ridiculous stances'?



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eyepatchguy (May 6, 2009)

www.petakillsanimals.com/downloads/PetaKillsAnimals.pdf

http: //www.virginia.gov/vdacs_ar/cgi-bin/Vdacs_search.cgi?link_select= facility&form=fac_select&fac_num=157&year=2004

There's more if you want them. The ridiculous stances I refer to are many. They are against any drugs that are developed using animal testing (even if it could cure AIDS overnight they would be against it). They are against having animals as pets as well as keeping them in captivity at all (but murdering them is okay). Their mission statement wants you to be completely vegan (also don't wear wool, silk, or eat honey). I understand what they want but sometimes it doesn't make sense. I don't understand why people have to associate with a group to do something.

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crackpotdemagogue (May 7, 2009)
ok, 1) I think the AIDS example is ridiculous and typical of people looking to stereotype an organisation with lots of bad stigma. 2) the opposition to the keeping of 'pets' stems from the fact that animals should not be 'owned' or 'used' in any sense and 3) regarding all this peta kills animals stuff, i done a bit of digging:

"Recently, some groups have made misleading claims about PETA’s euthanasia rate compared to the rates of various animal shelters. One such group is the deceitfully named Center for Consumer Freedom (CCF)—a front group for Philip Morris, Outback Steakhouse, KFC, cattle ranchers, and other animal exploiters that kill millions of animals every year—which is acting not out of compassion but out of greed. These companies are worried about the strides that PETA is making that are changing their industries and compelling them to take animal welfare concerns s

show rest of commentok, 1) I think the AIDS example is ridiculous and typical of people looking to stereotype an organisation with lots of bad stigma. 2) the opposition to the keeping of 'pets' stems from the fact that animals should not be 'owned' or 'used' in any sense and 3) regarding all this peta kills animals stuff, i done a bit of digging:

"Recently, some groups have made misleading claims about PETA’s euthanasia rate compared to the rates of various animal shelters. One such group is the deceitfully named Center for Consumer Freedom (CCF)—a front group for Philip Morris, Outback Steakhouse, KFC, cattle ranchers, and other animal exploiters that kill millions of animals every year—which is acting not out of compassion but out of greed. These companies are worried about the strides that PETA is making that are changing their industries and compelling them to take animal welfare concerns seriously; they hope to scare people away from supporting PETA by misrepresenting the vital work that we do for animals. To learn more about CCF—which USA Today recently opined should rename its Web site FatforProfit.com—please see the following Web sites:

•http://www.ConsumerDeception.com
•http://www.Citizens ForEthics.org/node/19131
•http://www.Prospect.org/web/page.ww?se ction=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=8984

Although PETA does not run an adoption facility (we refer most adoptable animals to well-known shelters with a high rate of public traffic), we have managed to place hundreds of animals in excellent lifelong homes. For many of the animals we do accept—such as those who are severely injured, aggressive, or otherwise unadoptable—we are often a “shelter of last resort,” offering a humane death to animals who would otherwise suffer a slow and painful end.

While some of the animals we take in are lost companion animals or adoptable strays, many of the animals we receive are broken beings for whom euthanasia is, without a doubt, the most humane option. To cite a local instance, our caseworkers were able to gain custody of a dog who was tied to a 15-pound chain and who was starved until she was severely emaciated. We had to carry her into the emergency clinic because she could barely walk. A vet recommended that the most humane option for her was a peaceful and dignified release from her suffering. We pursued criminal charges against those responsible for her condition, leading to their convictions for cruelty to animals. To learn more, please see http://www.HelpingAnimals.com/f-asiasstory.asp. On another occasion, when a power-line transformer explosion burned a flock of starlings, PETA was the only agency to come to the birds’ aid, offering the animals a painless escape from their suffering.

PETA receives calls every week from people who do not have the inclination or money to provide veterinary care. Many of these people request that we euthanize their animals because they cannot afford to have them euthanized by a vet or because the animals would suffer excessive stress and pain if they were transported. PETA will not turn its back on these animals simply because they might make our “numbers” look bad.

Unlike “no-kill” shelters, PETA does not refuse animals simply because euthanasia is the only humane option for them. Many of the animals we take in are given to us because they have been rejected by other facilities.

Thank you for your sincere questions and concerns."
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eyepatchguy (May 7, 2009)
But I doubt that the Virginia Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services is lying. And I find it terribly hard to believe that 2,278 cats and dogs were so bad off that they had to be euthanized in the course of one year. And only one was transferred to another facility in 2004.

(1).The AIDS example is a direct quote from PETA's national director: "Even if animal research resulted in a cure for AIDS, we'd be against it" Ingrid Newkirk (Vogue,
September 1989, page 542).
(2). I don't know about you but I've had animals run away before, either to get hit by cars, eaten by other animals, or never coming home. And I've also seen animals hurt so bad that they would never make it in the wilderness and we've given them a loving home. It's hard for me to believe that out of the many animals that me and my family have saved or rehabilitated that the

show rest of commentBut I doubt that the Virginia Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services is lying. And I find it terribly hard to believe that 2,278 cats and dogs were so bad off that they had to be euthanized in the course of one year. And only one was transferred to another facility in 2004.

(1).The AIDS example is a direct quote from PETA's national director: "Even if animal research resulted in a cure for AIDS, we'd be against it" Ingrid Newkirk (Vogue,
September 1989, page 542).
(2). I don't know about you but I've had animals run away before, either to get hit by cars, eaten by other animals, or never coming home. And I've also seen animals hurt so bad that they would never make it in the wilderness and we've given them a loving home. It's hard for me to believe that out of the many animals that me and my family have saved or rehabilitated that they would have been better off dying rather than being "owned".
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crackpotdemagogue (May 7, 2009)
Virginia Department of Agriculture isn't lying... the statistics are true, however the point is that they are being taken out of context. It is ridiculous to say that PETA is somehow murdering these creatures in some act of cruel barbarity. That's just not what is happening, and to say it is, is nothing other than ideological - which is the point made in the above post.

Again... the AIDS quote is taken out of context, i didn't have to look hard to find out a bit more. Read this article for example: http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/2378

And the point about pets is less about 'saving' pets than it is about realising that it is the current system (based upon the commodification of animals and the selling of them as creatures to be 'owned') that creates th

show rest of commentVirginia Department of Agriculture isn't lying... the statistics are true, however the point is that they are being taken out of context. It is ridiculous to say that PETA is somehow murdering these creatures in some act of cruel barbarity. That's just not what is happening, and to say it is, is nothing other than ideological - which is the point made in the above post.

Again... the AIDS quote is taken out of context, i didn't have to look hard to find out a bit more. Read this article for example: http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/2378

And the point about pets is less about 'saving' pets than it is about realising that it is the current system (based upon the commodification of animals and the selling of them as creatures to be 'owned') that creates the situation where there are pets needing to be 'saved' in the first place.

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SloaneDaley (May 6, 2009)

terms are important here, eroticism and porn are two distinct things, you will find pro-erotica feminist but finding actual pro-porn feminist is likely another matter.

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crackpotdemagogue (May 6, 2009)

you're right, that is an important distinction and I commend you for noting it.

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I_Rock_Hard (May 6, 2009)

http://www.consumerfreedom.com/news_detail.cfm/headline/2836

Take a look and see how "ethical" PETA really is.

Also see: www.petakillsanimals.com

I dismiss PETA because I love meat, and they are HUGE hypocrites, not because their campaigns are crude. And I will continue to happily support killing animals for my consumption until I die. Fuck PETA. The end.

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crackpotdemagogue (May 7, 2009)
well, that's an intelligent and considered viewpoint, isn't it?

i posted this above, but again:

Recently, some groups have made misleading claims about PETA’s euthanasia rate compared to the rates of various animal shelters. One such group is the deceitfully named Center for Consumer Freedom (CCF)—a front group for Philip Morris, Outback Steakhouse, KFC, cattle ranchers, and other animal exploiters that kill millions of animals every year—which is acting not out of compassion but out of greed. These companies are worried about the strides that PETA is making that are changing their industries and compelling them to take animal welfare concerns seriously; they hope to scare people away from supporting PETA by misrepresenting the vital work that we do for animals. To learn more about CCF—which USA Today recently opined should rename its Web site FatforProfit.com—please see

show rest of commentwell, that's an intelligent and considered viewpoint, isn't it?

i posted this above, but again:

Recently, some groups have made misleading claims about PETA’s euthanasia rate compared to the rates of various animal shelters. One such group is the deceitfully named Center for Consumer Freedom (CCF)—a front group for Philip Morris, Outback Steakhouse, KFC, cattle ranchers, and other animal exploiters that kill millions of animals every year—which is acting not out of compassion but out of greed. These companies are worried about the strides that PETA is making that are changing their industries and compelling them to take animal welfare concerns seriously; they hope to scare people away from supporting PETA by misrepresenting the vital work that we do for animals. To learn more about CCF—which USA Today recently opined should rename its Web site FatforProfit.com—please see the following Web sites:

•http://www.ConsumerDeception.com
•http://www.Citizens ForEthics.org/node/19131
•http://www.Prospect.org/web/page.ww?se ction=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=8984

Although PETA does not run an adoption facility (we refer most adoptable animals to well-known shelters with a high rate of public traffic), we have managed to place hundreds of animals in excellent lifelong homes. For many of the animals we do accept—such as those who are severely injured, aggressive, or otherwise unadoptable—we are often a “shelter of last resort,” offering a humane death to animals who would otherwise suffer a slow and painful end.

While some of the animals we take in are lost companion animals or adoptable strays, many of the animals we receive are broken beings for whom euthanasia is, without a doubt, the most humane option. To cite a local instance, our caseworkers were able to gain custody of a dog who was tied to a 15-pound chain and who was starved until she was severely emaciated. We had to carry her into the emergency clinic because she could barely walk. A vet recommended that the most humane option for her was a peaceful and dignified release from her suffering. We pursued criminal charges against those responsible for her condition, leading to their convictions for cruelty to animals. To learn more, please see http://www.HelpingAnimals.com/f-asiasstory.asp. On another occasion, when a power-line transformer explosion burned a flock of starlings, PETA was the only agency to come to the birds’ aid, offering the animals a painless escape from their suffering.

PETA receives calls every week from people who do not have the inclination or money to provide veterinary care. Many of these people request that we euthanize their animals because they cannot afford to have them euthanized by a vet or because the animals would suffer excessive stress and pain if they were transported. PETA will not turn its back on these animals simply because they might make our “numbers” look bad.

Unlike “no-kill” shelters, PETA does not refuse animals simply because euthanasia is the only humane option for them. Many of the animals we take in are given to us because they have been rejected by other facilities.



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kneel (May 6, 2009)

beta is the type of antisubjectchanging bullshit keeping me away from people who support beta

For sure. I really want to see at least some of it on IMAX, or at least one of the huge IMAX screens.

"smell the corpse" sounds like a brilliant name for a death metal band.

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crackpotdemagogue (May 6, 2009)

good call, go for it man, do it!

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Zombie-Guru (May 6, 2009)

Death Metal Spinal Tap cover band.

I'm eating a burger from 5 Guys right now. It's tasty.

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MPC (May 6, 2009)

Never been there but they are opening a Fatburger by my house. My only real interest is because of the Ice Cube song.

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sugarfull (May 6, 2009)

My sister, who is vegetarian, eats there all the time. Apparently they have a good veggie burger.

death cab is awesome. you're wrong.

French fries.

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HOISTDATRAG (May 6, 2009)

Fregan

because it is a myth that veganism is what dictates metabolism

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acris (May 6, 2009)

yep

A+ post

I kind of thought this whenever I saw Issa from Good Clean Fun

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acris (May 6, 2009)

it's because being thin is not positive

i laughed

as amusing as this story is, the notion that just because some one eats meat is stronger is stupid and baseless. some of the skinniest people i know are not vegan or vegetarian, but meat eaters.

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Cloudkicker (May 6, 2009)

True.

The whole point was just to piss Earth Crisis off and getting the singer frustrated enough to arm wrestle him is hilarious. It didn't really have to do with "meat makes you stronger," but the fact that he beat their singer just makes it all the more amusing.

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TheProblemWithFire (May 6, 2009)

agreed. i can't stand this band or many of their fans. this friend sounds cool.

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Cloudkicker (May 7, 2009)

Oh he's awesome on so many levels. For example he has a tattoo of a bottle opener that says "crack em" on his belly button because he can open beer bottles (twistoffs - but originally non twist offs. He's got the scar tissue to prove it) with it

Any stories about Sean McCabe should be repeatedly posted..... and I say that as a vegan.
RIP SPM

womanize?

says it all.

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mill83 (May 7, 2009)

Sure, why not? Me no english.

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I_Rock_Hard (May 10, 2009)

bro your still a fucking faggot