To the guy (and anyone else) who thinks that all organized religion should be kept out of music (or whatever):

You are a tool. Music has no rules. No laws. No boundaries. Write songs about whatever the hell you want.

Screw the fuckos who don't like it.

To the guy who suggested religion has no place in music. fuck you. You are as fool most modern american music would not existed if it wasn't for religious music all roads essentially lead back to spirrituals and hymnals especially following the lineage of rock and roll music which punk is a bastard child of no scene no music is created without a past. and the analogy of comparing hockey to music. A.) there two drasticly diffrent thing's one is purely a physical event the other an emotional social and yes dare I say it spiritual experiance. B) athletes also like artists are varied in thre views and beliefs. C) Athletes weather it be a secular prayer or religious one often pray before games from what sports movies have taught me. D) oh yeah what was D aagain oh yeah suck my ass you whiney little bitch and quit spreading facist ideals about what music can and can't be about. yoiur brother in Christ, Allah, Buddah, Satan, Zeus, Mars, the Tao. etc. etc.

awwwwwww.
didja learn about all those white power bands all by yerself? or did you sign up for punk rock 101 and take really good notes?
huh?
get off the internet and play outside you waste.

And I like Skrewdriver. I don't care about their message, their music just kicks ass.

Thay have done so much for the music scene. I mean, Skrewdriver has supported underground music for almost 30 years, and there might not be a white power underground without them.

Yea, that guy dissing Duvall should get the fuck off this board.

um...clearly the "anonymous" poster guy is really angry about the focus on the family/filibuster/right wingers shit that has been hitting the news pretty hard recently...I AM FUCKING PISSED as well.
But...I happen to enjoy the smoking popes as well as Duvall. Am I aware of Caterer's background? uhuh.
Do I give a fuck? no.
Wanna know why?(you probably don't but here goes..)

IT'S FUCKING POP MUSIC FER CHRISAKES(no pun intended)!!!!
I DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT THE LYRICS OR EVEN THE MESSAGE!
Most people could figure this one out on their own....but guess what...?
NO ONE FUCKING CARES ABOUT Duvall anyway(At least not one this board)!
Are they featured on PAX-FUCKING-TV?
Are they telling you to go out and protest abortion clinics for the greater good?
ARE YOU DUMB ENOUGH TO THINK ABOUT THIS SHIT TO THE POINT OF SLANDERING SOMEONE WHO HAS DONE A FUCK OF A LOT MORE FOR INDEPENDENT MUSIC/LABELS?BANDS THAN YOU WILL EVER DO?
go protest outside a solid state show and get the fuck off this board.
Nate

Because god told me that's what he wanted me to discuss on here, why else?

To the guy below me....why?

I want to get away from the teenage theology discussion and get back to another wrinkle-- that Christianity is becoming ubiquitous in ALL American culture, even our music scene, and that sucks. For example, on this very site there's a review of some shit band called Brutal Fight's CD called "Our Merciful Father." Now, what else could this be but pure Christianity? And hardly anyone's seen fit to question it. If you go to a hockey site, do you want to hear some Christian theologian's take on the Stanley Cup? No. But hardly anyone says a damn thing about Brutal Fight, Duvall, etc.

I say get it the fuck out. I say keep ALL organized religion out of music.

#1 this last guy didn't even read the whole comment, I don't think any of the people involved with this discussion think there is a god. However, a RATIONAL person would ask the question, how did the universe and space come to exist in the first place, Why did the big bang happen at all? These are questions that led to the idea that there is an infinite being and I don't think that's all that irrational. I might think they're probably wrong but I wouldn't say its irrational or copout and say its groupthink. Read my whole comment and then join the discussion, although I can tell that you're probably just some stupid punk kid whose parents got divorced so he thinks that gives him the right to self-pity himself and not take any responsibility for his actions and then lash out against things he hasn't taken the time to form his own opinion about like religion. So i'd prefer to continue the discussion with the other people and not you. Seacrest Out!!

Why can't everybody just admit they have no clue either way as to whether or not Santa Claus (e.g. "God") exists?

That's stupid. There is no proof that god exists and all kinds of evidence that the whole religious thing is groupthink, wishful thinking, whimsy. If there was one iota of evidence that even led (rationally) to a possibility of a god or an afterlife, I'd be prfectly willing to consider it. But there isn't, period.

So get over it, live your pointless life, die and be forgotten. One day you (and your precious Mommy and Daddy and your fucking kids) will be DEAD MEAT.

Saying you're an agnostic means that either you don't have the guts to say that there's no god or that you simply can't face the undeniable truth of your own mortality.

OK, here's how it is. You live, and your life isn't worth much while you're alive. Then you die and that's fucking it. Your life, as trite as it is, is all you get.

Ok, let's say no one ever came up with this idea that there is any higher power. And then there was someone who came along who said they believed in a higher power. How would you provide them with evidence that there is no god? In this lies the hypocricy of both atheism, agnosticism, or religion. I have no problem with faith or belief in a certain thing, but it really is blind faith. Why can't people be good just to be good? Why do you need an absolute belief in something even if it is atheism? Why can't everyone just admit they have no idea and have no proof of either side so they should live life as if they will die and thats the end of it without knowing for sure if that is what is going to happen?

"Yet the whole basis for atheism is that there is at the very least some philosophical, if not scientific, proof that god does not exist. I am not saying he does or doesn't. You're right it is faith so really anything is possible BUT the atheist stance is that they are so sure god doesn't exist that they are atheist and not agnostic. I was pointing out the hypocrisy and the total lack of sense that this makes."

It doesn't make sense if you start out from the point of there being a God of some sort. However, if you start out logically from a clean slate- WITHOUT that God-exists starting point- then where's the evidence that proves or mandates that there's a God? When there's evidence, I'll believe. Until then, what reason would I have to do so?

Let me make myself clear-- I think Park should drop Duvall. Supporting that band totally runs against the grain of the beliefs he espouses. And I believe Park is probably sincere in the beliefs he claims to have. Therfore, drop the sketchy, fundamnetalist Christian band. Simple as that.

There is nothing honorable about continuing to put out records by a band, just because you signed them without adequate investigation into their beliefs. Just dump 'em and go on with your stuff. I mean, he could even announce that he likes their music and likes them personally, but that he doesn't want to provide a forum for their proselytization. They should find a nice church based label to back them.

OK, here's what it all comes down to for me. This whole fucking country is becoming synonymous with Christianity. Think about how the Christians have even gotten their foot in the door of the punk community. Nobody even questions bands that are on Tooth & Nail anymore, they're just accepted. Bands like MXPX were the Trojan Horse bands, and now we've got Duvall releasing "O Holy Night" and nobody dares criticize it, lest their tolerance come into question.

Now, by golly, the Christians sure as fuck don't have any tolerance-- this goes especially for the Harvest Chapel where Josh Caterer is a preacher. They're sexist, homophobic, anti-abortion, right wingers, and they don't try to hide it either.

So fuck 'em. Park should dump them and get on with it. They have no place on his label. And it's contrary to his avowed purpose to continue to promote their records and thereby, promote their beliefs. Like I said earlier, I'm sure many a church label would scoop Duvall up in a New York minute.

mike is a bush supporter? well i guess he didn't know that when he toured with anti-flag on the rock against bush tour.
duvall is a sketchy band, but asian man has also released records for alkaline trio, who are also known to be anti-christian. a bands beliefs doesn't always completely mesh with the labels agenda. how many of the 50 bands who have worked with asian man, can you say the same thing for.

The religious ideas of the band has nothing to do with the label? Now really, who do you think you're kidding?

By releasing Duvall's records, Park provides the band with a conduit to relay their ideas. And in this case the band's ideas iare complete endorsement of and a recruiting mission for the Christian religion.

So it's not like the band just happens to be Christian. Every song of theirs is about religion and nothing else. Fuck, their last album was entitled "Oh Holy Night."

Now, I gotta give Duvall credit. They aren't hiding their agenda.

But Mr. Park, who has seen fit to tout his unrelenting ideological stance at every opportunity, is involved in the whole deal COMPLETELY by releasing these records.

So, either Park is not cognizant of what's going on with Duvall (this would certainly be contrary to his projection of himself as being an aware, inquisitive individual) or he agrees with that stuff and is in on the deal.

I don't think either scenario paints a very pretty picture of Park.

I'm asserting that Park probably isn't as aware of Duvall's agenda as he should be. And that he should dump them off Asian Man, thereby reclaiming his idealism. I hate to use a cliche here (especially one that's so funny in this case), but Park should practice what he preaches. He should quit releasing records by a fundamentalist nutjob band of right wingers, or he should out himself as a fellow bible thumper and Bush supporter.

the idea that some people here think they actually know the band more than mike is hilarious. I'm sure he knows duvall well has good intentions for putting out thier music. the band's personal religious beliefs still has nothing to do with the label as far as I'm concerned.

Oops, I signed a band whose ideas are diametrically opposite to those I have publicly flaunted for years. Goshdarn it! Oh well, this is a democracy. So I'll keep putting out their records, thereby providing them with a means to continue their agenda.

Park should dump that band off his label.

"Just because I claim that something is true, even though I can't come up with any proof, doesn't mean that you have to accept it."

I think I am completely misunderstanding your argument or that doesn't make any sense. You speak of faith in something. Yet the whole basis for atheism is that there is at the very least some philosophical, if not scientific, proof that god does not exist. I am not saying he does or doesn't. You're right it is faith so really anything is possible BUT the atheist stance is that they are so sure god doesn't exist that they are atheist and not agnostic. I was pointing out the hypocrisy and the total lack of sense that this makes.

O.K calm the Hell down everyone the problem with punk rock is everyone takes themselves to damn seriously with all of this scenester I'm punker than you my beliefs are punker than yours philosiphy. Hell Johnny Ramone one of the god fathers of punk was a staunch republican so is he autamaticlly going to get shit all over for his beliefs. Take a look around it's only music. So what a guy made a mistake and signed a band that appears to be a counter point to the ideas that Mike Park "preaches" (for lack of a better word) idealogies clash propaghandai and Fat Mike have differing idealogical views but are you going to go around calling Fat Mike an anarchist caused he signed an anarchist band? No or atleast any sane human being woulden't, clearly Fat mike beleives in democracy. So two people can having a working relationship and have two differing idealogies it's all just a matter of semantics how much the diffrence varies. Besides despite all your posturing and bullshit what you're doing is talking where as Mike Parks actions speak volumes.

Josh Caterer (Duvall singer/guitarist) is also a full-on, avid supporter of George W. Bush. That might be even stupider than being a fucking Christian.

I thought Fat was stupid to release MXPX. Not only do they suck musically, their message is lame and wrong. Funny thing about MXPX is they'd waffle as to whether they were focused on being christians or on being wacky, fun loving kids. I guess whatever was more profitable was the guise of the day for them.

Now, I could be wrong but I think Duvall and Five Iron Frenzy totals up to two bands.

Anyway, the main thrust is that Duvall is a wacko fundamentalist nutjob band. I really don't see how one could not see the inherent intolerance in that band, if they did the least bit of investigating. I wonder if Park himself did took a close enough look? I wonder how comfortable he would be with the views expressed by the Harvest Bible Chapel, a church that features preacher Josh Caterer, who is Duvall's sole lyricist and figurehead.

that's pretty lame if this whole argument against asian man is based on one band. hell, fatwreckchords released an mxpx album, and fat mike is a jew.

I just find it amusing that someone so committed to diversity and tolerance as Mr. Park would release something by Duvall, an unabashedly fundamentalist Christian act. I wonder if Park didn't do his homework on this one? Maybehe should visit the site of that church where Duvall's singer is a preacher? He might be a little surprised? I hope so. I'd really be disappointed if a champion of social change like Park thought that stuff was OK. (Now, don't give me the "Josh Caterer is just a member of that church" line-- he's a fucking preacher there. Either he's behind that bullshit 100% or he's just a lackey for the almighty dollar. And, in this case, I'd say the former is correct. I think Caterer believes every word of the horseshit he claims is "ultimate truth." Oh, there's bucks in the Christian racket too.)

There's Five Iron Frenzy, though they're not quite so over the top (or should I say they don't dredge the bottom) like Duvall.

how many other christian affiliated bands has asian man released records for exactly? besides duvall.

Duvall (Asian Man band) are nutjob fundamentalists. Josh Caterer, Duvall's singer/guitarist, is a minister at the Harvest Bible Chapel near Chicago. On the church's website (www.harvestbible.org) under "what we believe" it says--

"The scriptures clearly state that men are to serve in the office of Elder and that women are not to be serve (sic) in church positions in which they exerise authority over men or in which they teach doctrine to men."

"The bible is clear that men and women do not have the same roles."

I don;t think it can really be debated that these passages are overtly sexist.

The church also opposes gay rights and the right to legal abortion.

And there's all kinds of other utter dogshit on the site as well.

You can even click on "last weeks message" and hear Mr. Caterer giving glory to the lord. How inspiring!

If that's not enough bunk for you, go to www.duvallmusic.com and click on "Ask Josh." He's a little bit more specific about how you should interpret Duvall's message there.

nintendo core.......yes!

http://retarddisco.com/video/tr_mike_tysons_punch_out.mov

Oh screw it, I'll bite.

"You claim to have a full belief that there is no god but saying you are sure there is no god is just as silly as religious people saying they are sure there is a god."

By your logic, if I claim that the calculator on my desk can walk around and actually rules the world through a shadowy conspiracy involving calculators, certain types of automobiles, and people with the first name of "Ralph"- you would not be able to say "show me proof or I'll say you're full of crap." Just because I claim that something is true, even though I can't come up with any proof, doesn't mean that you have to accept it.

The onus for people of any of the thousands of religious/spiritual traditions is to prove that their beliefs are reality. None can, so they talk about faith. That's fine by me, but don't expect me to say that just because they have faith in something that they cannot physically prove, that I should not put my faith in things that are physically provable- via current scientific measures- instead.

Here's a 3rd way of saying this: I am sure in what can be proven via accepted scientific processes or through direct observation. Period. My moral and ethical beliefs, on the other hand, come from a combination of what I've read and observed to be right, and what feels right based on experience and upbringing.

I just saw the last post and wanted to make a comment. Atheism is very hypocritical. You claim to have a full belief that there is no god but saying you are sure there is no god is just as silly as religious people saying they are sure there is a god. There is no way of knowing and atheists just take the opposing view because they hate religion. Also, I would like to point out that one of the top proponents of Atheism whose name eludes me now, has decided Atheism is wrong. From my understanding it would be as if the pope stopped believing in jesus. Atheism is silly, just accept it. Seacrest out!

"Since you're an athiest, why are you so intent on defending religion? "

I'm not defending religion, I'm pointing out that your stereotyping doesn't signify anything. If Asian Man put out Jimmy Swaggart's evengelical protestant punk band, or Pope Hitler Youth XVI's ska band, you'd have a point. From what I can tell, the christian band(s?) on Asian Man aren't nutjob fundamentalists or ultra-orthodox. At least, no one here has claimed that they are. If so, post it.

I'm tolerant of christians that are tolerant of me. For instance, the Quakers are ultra-tolerant. I have better things to do than point out the obvious gaps between reality and the Bible, so I concentrate on the real jackasses: the fundamentallists, the Opus Dei types.

"I understand your point, but you also seem to be assuming there is one "unified" christian movement"

Oh, I know there isn't; sorry it came off that way, I guess. There are lots of people who get things right, but they seem to always get overshadowed by the bad. It's good that people look forward past the "organized religion" part and find groups like that that have solid beliefs in everything they do. I wish more people in the "underground" would not be so intolerant towards Christians (or however one wishes to be labelled) because "punk is no religion!" or something like that. For being such an open cause, there sure is a lot of hate towards that group, despite (like the links you have posted) all the work that is more revolutionary than recessive.

i'm all for religion but fuck organized religion, seriously. you don't need to be in a group to become more spiritual or gain more than what you could have done on your own. christianity is about teaching the good book so why the fuck can't one read the good book at home and not be looked down upon by the church? and then we have the crackers and wine every month which i truly believe is just horrible yet strategic peer pressure. i was in church for most of my life but was never baptized so every month just about everyone around me would eat the cracker and drink the wine except me and i could just feel people's eyes looking at me. i have so much more shit to say about church but no one cares. good night.

To lushj:

Since you're an athiest, why are you so intent on defending religion?

Maybe it's just the Frisco Burger/Whopper thing that's got you down. I gotta admit I could have used a better analogy. I mean, the subtle textures of the Frisco Burger makes it an entirely different dining experience than the Whopper. Which do you prefer? Or are you a McRib man? Do you say a prayer before partaking of the McRib?

If he wants them to accept his atheistic beliefs he has to accept their theistic beliefs.

To lushj:

Since you're an athiest, why are you so intent on defending religion?

Maybe it's just the Frisco Burger/Whopper thing that's got you down. I gotta admit I could have used a better analogy. I mean, the subtle textures of the Frisco Burger makes it an entirely different dining experience than the Whopper. Which do you prefer? Or are you a McRib man? Do you say a prayer before partaking of the McRib?

GLADIMNOTEMO -

I understand your point, but you also seem to be assuming there is one "unified" christian movement, which there definitely isn't. Check out the links I put out before concerning Liberation Theology, and research the idea surrounding The Beloved Community and see how revolutionary it can be. After all, where do you think a lot of the basis for the Zapatista movement has come from? Mexican liberation theologians.

This show was at Epic Arts -> http://www.epicarts.org/

"So....I like Skankin Pickle and 7 Seconds. I think I would have enjoyed this show.

Joe"

uh, getting a little off topic there buddy.

So....I like Skankin Pickle and 7 Seconds. I think I would have enjoyed this show.

Joe

I meant Jesus where the "he" is, not Constantine...sorry..

Posted by gladimnotemo on 2005-04-20 16:53:42
My Score:

Christianity stopped being revolutionary and relevant when Constantine made it the official "religion" in Rome. When he did that, you can insert all the hate, intolerance, sexism, etc etc. Before that, it was a small, revolutionary group in the Middle East. Most of the church teachings today go directly against everything that he promoted and lived for. Leaders of the "church" today, like Robertson, Falwell, and others contradict the words they supposedly follow everytime they open their mouths.

...oh, and 7 Seconds is just beyond words for me.

"They're about as different as a Frisco Burger is from a Whopper."

Okay, you're an idiot. Whatev. I'm an atheist and even I can see that your analogy is simple-minded to the point of being mongoloid.

They are interchangable because of the unifying stupidity factor. Both sects believe in a mythic god that simply doesn't exist. No, they are not exactly the same. But each sect is a remixed, remastered version built from essentially the same template. You can phrase a stupid idea in many different ways and it's still a stupid idea. Those sects package their beliefs and messages in different packages. They're about as different as a Frisco Burger is from a Whopper.

Sigh, whoever you are, you're not going to respond to the point others are making, so one last time, rephrased a bit.

Do you seriously believe that a Quaker (i.e. the Friends, a very liberal, ultra-pacifist protestant sect) is interchangable with a member of Opus Dei (fascistic ultra-orthodox Catholic sect)?

"C'mon people. If you don't agree with the policies/opinions/actions of a particular group, why claim allegiance?"

Definately a valid question. Personally, I agree with the spiritual teachings of the catholic church. To me, the Catholic mass is a spiritual event, to me having a relationship with god is important, three years ago it was not. I agree with the church's position on war and capital punishment, but disagree on other issues. I don't feel that it is completely necessary to agree 100% with something to take part.

But i really like Kevin Seconds, and Mike Park.

Not all nazis are alike. I'm a nazi in that I was raised by nazis. That said, I do not believe in the teachings of the nazis, white supremacy, or their intolerance and homophobia.

Not all repubilcans are alike. I'm a republican in that i was raised by republicans. That said, I do not agree with many republican policies regarding social programs, gays' right to marry, the iraq war, etc.

C'mon people. If you don't agree with the policies/opinions/actions of a particular group, why claim allegiance?

Posted by lushj on 2005-04-20 12:48:36
My Score:

Okay, 2 things.

One, as someone who is NOT a christian (or jew, or muslim, or buddhist, or whatever), there's a HUGE difference between this latest Hitler Youth Pope (my favorite nickname for him from the London Times is "The Panzer Cardinal" with "God's Rottweiler" a close second!!!) and a practicing Quaker. Both are christian, but that's about the only similarity between the two.

The analogy below about all punk being intolerant and violent because of nazi skin bands is a great one.

Two, what venue was this at? Is it something like "Axis Gallery" or something? Where is it?

The London Times article is here:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1572667,00.html

"Somewhere along the line people took it upon themselves to follow every word in the bible literally, rather than embrace the teachings of Jesus, that's where it all got fucked up! "

agreed

I completely echo the opinions stated by sickboi, in the post below. Christianity is supposed to be following the teachings of Jesus Christ. In actuality, Jesus was a rebel, Jesus was for the underdog and embraced the outcasts of society, Jesus was against prejudice, hate and discrimination. Somewhere along the line people took it upon themselves to follow every word in the bible literally, rather than embrace the teachings of Jesus, that's where it all got fucked up!
I'm catholic, to the extent that I was raised in the Catholic Church, attended Catholic school most of my life, and go to church on days when I can get there. Do I agree with the opinions of the church? Hell no. I'm pro-choice, i'm not a homophobe, and I despise the attempt from the church to sweep sexual abuse allegations under the rug! My point being, religion can be a positive thing when used as a guide. Like anything else, if you let it control you and dictate your life, it can also be a very dangerous thing. Religion is only the "opiate of the masses" when people refuse to question it, and are afraid to form their own opinions.

I personally do not like the Christian faith. I think its extremely hypocritical, sexist, biased and downright deceitful.

BUT...

Just from what I've learned about the history of Jesus, he was a good dude. Believed spirituality is all around us, and that we don't need a "middleman" to have a relationship with god. (sounds a hell of a lot like Buddhism).

Christians pretty much distorted all of his teachings. I mean think about it, the bible is more or less the diciples (and not even directly, the bible was written 70 years after Jesus' death) interpretations of Jesus' teachings.

Its a big game of telephone.

Example:

-Moses took a boat across the Red Sea
-Moses swam across the Red Sea
-Moses parted the Red Sea

Catch my drift?

Lick a dog's ass till it bleeds, you moron.

"People who can't do their own research and realize that there are very few things that "good" or "bad" 100% make me sad, because they're probably missing out on a lot of good things in life, regardless if it's punk music, an understanding of different religions, or what have you. "

I couldn't have said it any better. Some of the most wonderful and most meaningful people in my life are Christians. Whether or not its all part of some perpetual white man scheme is inconsequential as I live my life now, not in the context of the history of the world of the white man beginning with Jesus. It doesn't matter how you categorize yourself or what sect or group you belong to, there's always going to be the good and the bad. You take a positive perspective on life and you enjoy life so much more.

And back to the douche, every time you open your mouth, you keep sticking to the same, redundant "All Christians=White Man Tools" argument which leads me to believe you either don't have a substantive argument or that you're just a troll looking for a rise. Either way, you're still a douchebag.

for your information:
1. I'm not a Christian. I have my own spiritual beliefs but I don't associate myself with any one religion.
2. I didn't vote for Bush.

But thanks for playing.

Funny, my theology professor in college said that god was a Woman.

1) I'm actually not Christian. My spirituality is a personal thing that I don't put a label on, but it's safe to say it doesn't really fall into particular classification.
2) I write reviews of the shows I see. I happen to enjoy seeing Mike Park,and think he's a really awesome guy. Maybe we should start slamming Adam for only reviewing shows and bands that tour Canada?

Hitler wasn't a Christian. He was actually extremely into the occult and norse mythology. Also, punk for a lot of people is synonymous with intolerance and violence. From the sects of the hardcore scene that are violent, to the white power groups, people seem to think that Punk music is synonymous with hate, violence, and often self-destruction. Does that make it true? No. People who can't do their own research and realize that there are very few things that "good" or "bad" 100% make me sad, because they're probably missing out on a lot of good things in life, regardless if it's punk music, an understanding of different religions, or what have you.

If anyone wants to continue any discussion, feel free to email me. It's in my profile, so is my IM.

I just looooove it when you Christians whine for tolerance one second and then call me an asshole, fuckhead, douche, whatever the next. I'm even more amused at how the Christian contingent brings up "undeniable facts." Here's an undeniable fact for you: the Christian religion is a huge institution of white men who have exerted their power ovr the naive and powerless 9that might be you) for centuries. Just look at the new pope, for example. Ever notice how all the big wheels in Christian history, like Jesus maybe, are men. Ever notice how god is a man? I'm sure "god" is white, too. Now, get on back to your theocracy, vote for Bush, enjoy a delicious berry yum enermer. It be an undeniable fack-- thems is good.

i do have nick cave stuck in my head.

alright Fuzzy, we KNOW who's side you are on! Jesus Christ (no pun intended), you follow the guy all over Northern California and write dripping reviews about him and take pictures. Oh boy, now you tell us that we're generalizing about Christians too, that's a new one. MLK was a follower, but so was Hitler, and let us not forget that the KKK is based in Christianity. Sure, they're not ALL bad, but it's perfectly fair to say that Christianity is synonomous with intolerance.

As hard as I try not to let it get to me, Kevin's voice severely annoys the hell out of me.

Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 at 1:48 AM (EDT)
My Score:

score is for the new degrassi. it's television CRACK.

Everyone bashing Christianity needs to do some research on Liberation Theology, as well as study some of the teachings of Martin Luther King, Jr.. Then tell me that no matter what, supporting Christianity enforces any kind of male dominated hierarchy. Just because your experience with it may do that, that doesn't mean that that's all that Christianity is. Maybe you should reexamine your preconcieved notions of different things before judging someone else for being affiliated with them. Open your mind before you open your mouth.

"I guess Park isn't some awful villain or anything. But I think he'd be well served to examine his politics more closely. There are some gaping holes in the veneer of multiculturalism and tolareance he tries to project. Those gaps are because of his affiliation with Christianity. Now, if Park wants to get spiritual I guess that's his business. But promoting Christianity makes Park another lackey for the white male power structure. Furthermore, Christianity is stupid.

Park should change the name of his label to Asian Tool of the White Man Records."

I don't even know whether this is a joke or not. It's too over the top but I'm going to assume you are serious and address it. You're entitled to your opinions about Asian Man's releases and the quality of Mike's work, but when you start talking shit for the sake of talking shit about Mike's seemingly clandestine motives of spreading "Christianity" and working for the white man, then you just come off like some bitter kid who needed a little parental lovin at home, a girlfriend, and a life-not necessarily in that order.

Mike's track record speaks for itself with all the benefits and countless hours he puts into community and social activist work. He's raising money to put up a god damn community center for God's sake (oops, does that make me a tool of the white man too?) so kids can have a place to put up shows. Let me guess, the whole thing is just some master plan to suck more kids into some evil Christian sect. So your beef is that he is a slave of the white man because he promotes Christianity. That's one of the most ridiculous leaps I've ever seen made on this site but maybe i'm just a close minded, ignroant fuck. But more power to ya if that's what gets you off. Kinda like every time you buy food or medicine or clothes or watch a movie, you're also a tool for putting money in the pockets of powerful white CEOs of big corporations. I like that leap too!

So in the end, your whining ends up as nothing more than picking at straws. If you're clearly as intolerant as you seem to be, then get some help. Or live the rest of your life as anarchist.

LTJ's Pezcore

Even if they don't get along no more...

Amazing. You people can bitch about anything, no matter how good-intentioned it was.

Mike Park, while maybe not the best or most original musician in the world, is a social activist. He has done more for people than you or I ever have, or probably ever will (I mean, come on -- we're sitting here on the fucking internet). And yes, every ad I remember seeing for Asian Man many moons ago was hand-written, and talked about how the whole thing was DIY. I didn't view that as back-patting; I viewed it as inspirational. It showed me that there was more than just major labels, or Epitaph, or Fat, or whatever. I don't personally know Mike Park, but I doubt the thought of, "I'm totally going to fool these kids into buying my records!" ever crossed his mind.

And, as for classic records? Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but Asian Man has released plenty of classics for me.

-All three Slow Gherkin albums
-The Slapstick discography
-All the early Alkaline Trio stuff
-Tuesday's Freewheelin'
-The Blue Meanies' live record
-Duvall's Volume And Density
-Colossal's Welcome The Problems

And those are just off the top of my head. Yeah, the guy puts out a lot of not-so-life-changing records, too; but doesn't that just speak volumes for his business ethic? He's not looking for a "hit band." He puts out music he likes and believes in, whether or not you approve of it.

In summary: Pull the stick out of your ass. Mike Park is not Mr. Burns. The end.

-Scott

I think youth center means Church.

and by youth center he meant liquor store.

he's doing these bike tours as a fund raiser for a future youth center he's buiding in san jose. so theres a purpose and goal towards all of this.

As to biking, that's kind of like "Beer Drinking for Peace." I betcha Park bikes all the time because he enjoys it.

I'm really not impressed by the biking across California and playing living rooms thing. Gosh, I'd rather take a two week bicycle vacation than, say, work? I doubt the shows are that far apart and I betcha Park rides his bike for fun anyway. So this biking thing is kind of like, "Beer Drinking For Peace." It might sound good, but fer cryin' out loud...

Some of you people think this living room thing is some kind of altruism. C'mon, it's not like Park could fill arenas if he wanted to. Park is playing living rooms because that's the only kind of "venue" he can fill, simple as that.

Posted by inanechild on 2005-04-19 18:02:08
My Score:

That is one of the most unexpected pictures of Kevin Seconds ever.

It seems to me that mike park was friends with Eli and offered to put the Duvall records. I'm athiest and have Christian friends and i'd do the same think. No one is shoving Christianity down anyone's throat. However, I conceed that Mike's "DIY" kick is a bit overdone. My friend does a label out of his room and he doesn't promote it as "hi, I run this label out of my room and being a small label is very important to me!!" Whatever, I own a lot of Asian Man releases and enjoy them alot as well as carry much respect for all the good stuff Mike Park has done.

isn't Alkaline Trio anti-christian?

What venue did this take place at?

Posted by lushj on 2005-04-19 16:30:25
My Score:

As one atheist to another: There's huge differences between christians. Put a Quaker next to Pope Benedict XVI and you'll get 2 completely different world views and attitudes towards tolerance. Both are christians but are completely different.

Both are against the death penalty, believe we should help the poor (but split seriously on how to do that), and are against the war in Iraq, but after that the differences pile up to the sky.

... just sayin. I don't know anything about the beliefs of whatever christian bands are on Asian Man, but I betcha they're not the Southern Baptist Protestant fundamentalists that want prayer in public schools.

I think his criticism of Mike Park goes beyond the Christian thing. The guy does get a little shameless with the way he promotes himself. The whole "label in the garage" things gets tiring after a while, and he's only able to do that because he has some other big company handle all of his distro. Aside from that, Mike does go overboard with his self-victimization. I mean the guy lives in the Bay Area, how bad could he be persecuted?

Of course I have heard of Desmond Dekker. And the man is a great artist. That said, I don't think he "puts The Skatalites and The Specials in their place." Incidentally, where might that place be? Are you saying that The Skatalites and The Specials are inconsequential bands?

Yes, Slapstick might indeed be one of the best of the third wave of skunk/skacore bands. I'll agree with you there. But isn't saying that they're among the best of the third wave sort of damning them with faint praise?

I'm flummoxed by your post. On one hand, you seem to have an appreciation for true ska and early ska punk. Then you turn around and tout Slapstick as the best? This seems like incongruent logic to me. That said, everyone's entitled to their opinion. And I think Slapstick is OK, not great but OK. There are certainly worse ska bands, including the rest of the ska related acts on Asian Man. (How would you rank, say, MU330 or 5 Iron Frenzy in relation to the esteemed Mr. Dekker?)

I'm not going to respond by calling you an asshat. Are you a Christian? Perhaps that's why you're so touchy about my criticism of Park/Asian Man?

I was different from the guy who said that Slapstick was the best ska band of all time dude.

We're two different people.

And who cares about what religious belief a band has? So what if it's members are christians? Do you want everyone to be atheists?

as a good friend of mike park, he has never shoved the whole christianity angle down anyones throats. how would this be different if his bands were buddhist? and what exactly have bands such as duvall and well,duvall done that alienates those who are sensitive to religion? really, i think duvall is the only band that comes to mind that is pretty well known for being of the christian faith on AMR. so what?

this just sounds to me that,"gee this guys so nice, ive GOTTA find something bad about him". yawn. we've heard this lame arguement before. you like the specials? fine. theyre a great band. sorry if we dont get the cool point for discovering slapstick before the specials. slapstick was a great band, and for alot of people was one of the first to open their eyes to the vast world that is ska.

but back to my point, mike park is actually as nice as he seems. he is no tool of the white man. in fact if you notice, hes no longer doing part with the take action tour because too many corporate sponsors. and how really of a tool of the white man is he being if hes frikkin biking across the states an playing in peoples living rooms for fucks sake? the post below is correct, without religion, you really have no arguement.

Asian Man Records has put out some of the best ska and punk records of our generation. End of story. Get your opinions about christianity out of the equation and you have no fucking argument. What about plea for peace, what about take action, what about all of the other amazing shit that label has done that other labels can't touch? You're a douche.

Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 at 2:21 PM (EDT)
My Score:

It's been far too long since I'd heard a Big Poppa Pump reference. I need to start wearing a chain mesh headdress.

Wow, this IS an interesting thread. I'm a fan of Mike Park and his label, but the person below does raise some valid points. I think Mike's work work with Plea For Peace and Ska Against Racism is commendable, but his pro-Jesus work is a glaring mark against him. I wonder where Mike stands on issues of choice and prayer in school?

I totally disagree with his comments about SW being passe, that shit is timeless. I give AMR no credit for SW though, that's all old-school Lookout.

"The highlight was the requested acoustic rendition of "Justice,"

Wow, the last two times Mike Park came to Orlando (PFP and Rock Vs. Bush) I yelled out for "justice" and was completely ignored! Oh well.

So we have a new Pope. He didn't take the name I was hoping he would:

Big Poppa Pope.

"This goes out to my freaks, and my peaks..."

Of course I have heard of Desmond Dekker. And the man is a great artist. That said, I don't think he "puts The Skatalites and The Specials in their place." Incidentally, where might that place be? Are you saying that The Skatalites and The Specials are inconsequential bands?

Yes, Slapstick might indeed be one of the best of the third wave of skunk/skacore bands. I'll agree with you there. But isn't saying that they're among the best of the third wave sort of damning them with faint praise?

I'm flummoxed by your post. On one hand, you seem to have an appreciation for true ska and early ska punk. Then you turn around and tout Slapstick as the best? This seems like incongruent logic to me. That said, everyone's entitled to their opinion. And I think Slapstick is OK, not great but OK. There are certainly worse ska bands, including the rest of the ska related acts on Asian Man. (How would you rank, say, MU330 or 5 Iron Frenzy in relation to the esteemed Mr. Dekker?)

I'm not going to respond by calling you an asshat. Are you a Christian? Perhaps that's why you're so touchy about my criticism of Park/Asian Man?

To the asshat below me, have you ever heard Desmond Dekker?

Yeah, he puts The Specials and The Skatalites in their place.

Slapstick is probably one of the best out of the third wave skunk/skacore bands.

I am raggin' on Mike Park because I think he's a fake. He claims to promote multiculturalism while he actually promotes whitey by releasing Christian records. You know, the Christians like to have dupes like Park on their side. He's someone "hip" that can slip the Christian message in through the backdoor, in the guise of being something "alternative." Think about it.

To say that Slapstick is one of the best ska records of all time, what? Ever heard the Skatalites? Ever hear The Specials? If you think Slapstick is on par with those other bands, well, that's what you think I guess. Whatever.

Think about the Christianity versus purported multicularism angle, though. Really, think about it.

I guess our musical tastes aren't the same. But what do you think about the Christian angle? Do you think this is above reproach? Do you think this is OK? Do you think that this religion should be given total support via releasing records that are essentially musical propaganda tracts? Let's get beyond sandlot style argument here and discuss the "Christian punk" thing and Mr. Park's role.

WHOA! Asian Man has never released anything classic? WTF? I think that the definitive ska-punk album of all-time is on Asian Man. I am of course speaking of 25 songs by Slapstick. Let's not go saying crazy things we can't take back. Like him or not, Mike Park more than deserves his place in history.

Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 at 10:51 AM (EDT)
My Score:

Mike Park is awesome.

To the guy below, you have just made me read the most ignorant and stupid paragraphs of my life. I think reading it made me more stupid. He hasnt done anything but good things for the music scene. As for the Asian Man roster, it's all about taste. If you don't like it fine, but some people do like it and that's their opinion. If you don't like don't listen to it, but don't go raggin' on Mike Park because your a frustrated little shithead.

Mike Park this, Mike Park that. Mike Park is the John Denver of punk. And, judging from all the accolades I keep hearing in regards to Mr. Park, I bet he's just as "nice" as the late Mr. Denver. Too bad the Muppett Show doesn't still come on -- Park could sing a duet with Kermy about how it's not easy being green and Asian. Park's fans (the dorks) would LOVE him for it. There is nothing more charming (to a dork) than a "nice" person on a "cute" show being "sensitive." I'm sick of seeing this guy get his ass kissed so much. I mean, what has he done? He's released a bunch of mediocre
"ska" records. Asian Man hasn't released a good album in at least five years, and has never released anything classic.

OK, I'll explain my beef with Park. It seems to me that Mike Park is just some rich boy who has managed to parlay his "status" as a mini mogul of punk into gushing respect from a small contingent of ass-kissers and hangers on. I'm really tired of hearing the guy rattle on and on about how his label is located in his mom's garage -- is there something honorable about that? He's also always crowing about how Asian Man won't release any sexist or racist music -- as if he receives demos from white power bands (Park seems to think this is a HUGE demographic.) every day. Yea, he's non sexist-- except when it comes to releasing records by "Christian" bands who promote a patriarchal (e.g. sexist) religion that is traditionally racist as well. Hooray! Mike Park is the champion of "the people." And then he turns around and releases Christian records, essentially promoting white male supremacy by proxy. This is progress? This is "punk?"

I guess Park isn't some awful villain or anything. But I think he'd be well served to examine his politics more closely. There are some gaping holes in the veneer of multiculturalism and tolareance he tries to project. Those gaps are because of his affiliation with Christianity. Now, if Park wants to get spiritual I guess that's his business. But promoting Christianity makes Park another lackey for the white male power structure. Furthermore, Christianity is stupid.

Lastly, the Asian Man catalog is weak. The best bands (formerly) on the label are Alkaline Trio and the Lawrence Arms, and neither band is great shakes. As to the "ska" stuff, well that's not really ska, it's suburban white boy ska. And, more importantly, it's bad music. Screeching Weasel? Get outta here! SW is totally passe and childish. And Mr. Park's solo material is one dimensional, thin, tepid and downright boring.

Park should change the name of his label to Asian Tool of the White Man Records.

didnt even read this yet....but i can imagine....mike park...he's such a genius..he's so fucking great..awesome.
-TOBB

all fuzzy needs to do now is a review of mike park at great american music hall, a review of mike park at slims, and a review of mike park at the phoenix theatre in petaluma.

Damn you, Fuzzy!

I'm tired of hearing about mike park, and how great of a guy he is. MIKE PARK IS AN ASSHOLE, FUCK HIM.

one legend and another in the making. fucking awesome.

I

Posted by xblakeyoung on 2005-04-19 00:19:14
My Score:

Score is for Mike Park as a person. Super nice guy.

So no acoustic 7 Seconds? Damn.