No matter how much I try, I just can't get into them.

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dlangl4 (June 20, 2009)

This is the first I've ever heard of them. I'm digging it on the first listen though, which is very rare for me. Usually I have to listen to a CD multiple times before I start to like it.

I agree. Lipona's great. btw I always think of Link's horse when I hear that name.

well, he just wants an end to the violent protests. thats completely understandable. yeah, the US should probably intervene, that would be ideal. unfortunately, we are in no state to do so.

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MilesQToast (June 20, 2009)

I mean, how could we possibly do that? It sucks cause this is one where you're right, we probably should. but I think we used up all our meddling passes for this decade.

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dlangl4 (June 20, 2009)

First, admit we were wrong about Afganishtan and Iraq. Second, begin pulling troops out of those two countries as soon as possible. Third, begin threatening Iran with military action and gearing up our military in a show of force. Fourth, do our best to get the UN to help and assist in every way possible (at least ask them to bluff). Fifth, do whatever we can to assassinate/bomb Iranian leaders (not a major invasion). Sixth, do anything else we can to help the pro liberal movement. And if all else fails, seriously threaten a military strike.

Now is the chance to help them in Iran. This opportunity might not come up again for 20 or 30 more years.

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MilesQToast (June 20, 2009)

we can't invade another country. And I'm not talking about troops already deployed elsewhere. It has nothing to do with that. We just have to eat this one I'm afraid.

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dlangl4 (June 20, 2009)

Invasion would be a super last resort. I don't think we could rationally bring it to that. But we can do everything short of that and at least try to get something accomplished. There has to be plenty of ways we can help them other than an outright invasion. In fact I'm sure there are. We should do those to the fullest extent we can.

Unfortunately due to the last eight years our ability and credibility to intervene abroad has been pretty much completely destroyed. Getting involved in Iran would probably only give fuel to those in power over there. We would be seen as interfering, invading imperialists and it would render anything we accomplished worthless.

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dlangl4 (June 20, 2009)

I agree our credibility is ruined, but I don't think that we need that credibility in this situation. Why? Because I believe that most western governments would agree with a course of action against the oppressive Iranian government.

We won't need that credibility if the "rightness" of threatening Iran is so obvious, which is it (in my opinion).

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MattRamone (June 20, 2009)

What is happening over there is horrible and exactly what happens when people can't take an oppressive government anymore.

BUT

I have to wonder if we're seeing growing pains. I have to wonder if Obama is waiting to see how this plays out, to see if another revolution happens over there.

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dlangl4 (June 20, 2009)

He might be, but that's what I'm saying. We need to do everything we can to help them have that revolution. Maybe he is and we just don't know about it, but it sure doesn't seem like we're doing anything.

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MilesQToast (June 20, 2009)

even as obvious as the wrongness of the situation probably appears to other countries, we're the country that cried wolf and I don't think they'd necessarily follow us this time just on general principle.

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dlangl4 (June 20, 2009)

They wouldn't have to follow us on principle if it is that obvious to them also. I'm not sure if I get what you're saying entirely though.

If the Western powers in the UN also feel like supporting Iran is the right idea, then why would they cease to feel that way just because the US does also?

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dlangl4 (June 20, 2009)

And I don't see how we would be seen as "interfering, invading imperialists" or how it would render anything we accomplished worthless. If we succeeded in helping them set up their own liberal democratic government, how would that be imperialistic at all? And wouldn't that be the exact opposite of worthless?

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MilesQToast (June 20, 2009)

I don't think it would be that easy. That's what we've been trying to do in iraq for years and years.

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dlangl4 (June 20, 2009)

The Iranian youth want this new government. We could help them. It will take years and years (15 maybe? who knows). Wouldn't it be worth it? I don't think it would be easy, and people would die obviously, but this is a chance to end a super oppressive government. I think it would be worth the effort.

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MattRamone (June 20, 2009)

Like it or not, our reputation would make it easy for us to be painted that way. Any government that was created as a result of US intervention would be tainted in the eyes of a lot of people. A government is only functional so long it is recognized as legitimate by the majority of people.

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dlangl4 (June 20, 2009)

I respectfully but completely disagree that our reputaion would have that cause.

I think that if we could do everything we can to help them set up their OWN and independent government, that government would not be tainted by America's poor reputation.

Also, no doubt that there are plenty of people who think poorly of the US government. I also don't think that nearly as many Western governments or people think as poorly of the US as many people think. Our reputation is bad, but not that bad. (Our reputation is probably terrible in the middle east. But I don't think it's that bad in Europe.)

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MilesQToast (June 20, 2009)

if we could do it peacefully without war then maybe. but aren't they already all sanctioned and shit? what else can we do?

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dlangl4 (June 20, 2009)

It just depends on how it all plays out. But I can say that it starts with getting as much support as possible from other Western nations and powers, and then that is followed by putting as much pressure on Iran as possible to listen to the protestors and to call for reform. Let that situation escalate for a while, and if the liberal movement is still going strong, then do everything we can to help them, such as giving them money/arms/resources/whatever. Assassinate the worst of the worst of their government. I don't know all the options available, but I do know that the US is an expert in fucking with the governments of other countries. Now is a super appropriate time to put those skills to use.

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MattRamone (June 20, 2009)

I liked it better when we all argued about Against Me!.

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dlangl4 (June 20, 2009)

Haha, trust me, I'm not trying to be rude or dissuade anyone from replying. Please see my post below. I'm just curious if I'm the only person who feels this way, and why. I'm definitely not trying to make anyone pissed or anything.

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MilesQToast (June 20, 2009)

biting the table>biting the curb

I'm not necessarily trying to convince anyone to feel the same way I do. What I'm really looking for is to see where I'm going wrong here and if what I'm saying is just completely off base. So the more people debating with me the better. Please keep the opposition posts coming. I want to see if I'm completely wrong about this or what.

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MilesQToast (June 20, 2009)

no worries discussion is good. I don't think we necessarily disagree with your stance. I think we just disagree that it is plausible at this juncture in our country's history. You're probably right that even if perhaps it would be the right thing to do, that Obama might not act on it. I probably wouldn't if I was president.

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dlangl4 (June 20, 2009)

That's cool. I probably agree that at this juncture in our history we aren't capable. I guess what I'm saying is that if we started right now, maybe we could be ready in time to actually help out. They've been protesting for 5 fucking days straight. That blows my mind. I never expected this to happen. And we can't do anything because we are too tied up in other stupid fucking wars? It just pisses me off that there is nothing we can do to help people who are in the exact situation that we should be ready to aid at all times. They're protesting for exactly what we would want them to, and this is in fucking Iran of all places. It's a goddamn shame if we can do nothing to help them get what they should have, which is exactly the same things and ideals that the US (supposedly) stands for.

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ffwoodycooks (June 20, 2009)

we all pretty much have that standpoint. and it is unfortunate

i dont think that makes Obama a shithead, especially since he pretty much feels the same way we do.

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dlangl4 (June 20, 2009)

If he doesn't do anything, then in my opinion, it makes him a shithead for this one issue. If he does stuff, then maybe it doesn't. It just depends on how he handles it. So far, all we know is that he hasn't done anything. I admit though that maybe he's down stuff privately that we don't know about that makes him not so much of shithead.

Regardless, I hope he is. My name calling isn't really relevant though. For the sake of the argument, I take it back.

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MilesQToast (June 20, 2009)

I guess what this all really boils down to is we need to form our own covert special assault team.

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dlangl4 (June 20, 2009)

Agreed and I'm down. If I had the proper training and didn't have to participate in the military in any other way, then I'd risk my life for this. Same thing with North Korea. They need this even (way) more than Iran does. Our team would need a name though. And our name would have to have an exclamation mark.

Up the Punx Citizens Brigade!

?

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MilesQToast (June 20, 2009)

we'll need ninja guy, weapons guy, technology guy.....

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MilesQToast (June 20, 2009)

absolutely. I feel you on all that.

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MilesQToast (June 20, 2009)

I mean, strong languange and "support" in the abstract and all that yes, that's fine. But I dunno about sending Solid Snake in there to start sniping mofos.

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dlangl4 (June 20, 2009)

Strong language and support in the abstract would just have to be the starting place. If that doesn't help enough, then I'm sure the military and intelligence think tanks could think of 50 different ways that we could help the opposition. We could train them how to conduct assassinations themselves, etc. Whatever. There have to be things we could do, overt and covert. Now is the chance. There might not be another one for years.

FUCK THE GOVERNMENT
..............
WITH
............
YOUR
.........
FIST

there's nothing particularly romantic about the word either. At least wolves are cool.

Don't forget the Days.

I honestly couldn't come up with any wolf bands but my band of the moment was just wolf parade so touche.

and the cobras

And Vijay needs a Slap Chop.

Ohhhhhhhhhh.

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MilesQToast (June 20, 2009)

haha

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MattRamone (June 20, 2009)
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MilesQToast (June 20, 2009)

I had to wikipedia that shit. "Jake Steed is easily recognizable by his exceptionally large penis, which is curved sideways" might be the greatest intro to a biography ever.

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MattRamone (June 20, 2009)

His rap album is amazing in that it's probably the worst rap album this side of SHAQ ATTACK. I listened to it for four years straight in college with my roommate and it was as funny on graduation day as it was on move in day freshman year.

Linx?

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ffwoodycooks (June 20, 2009)

http://milanofratricida.com/wp-content/themes/indomagz_2/images/ 007-atari-linx.jpg

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MattRamone (June 20, 2009)

Newfags can't triforce.

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MilesQToast (June 20, 2009)

haha

http://www.faniq.com/article/Only-26-players-and-managers-hav e-a-college-degree-in-major-league-baseball-1718012

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MattRamone (June 20, 2009)

That picture reminded me, how crazy is it that Donte Stallworth (there should be spellcheckers hired by the government for when you submit your new child's birth certificate) only got 30 days in jail for killing someone while driving drunk? AND he's gonna get to go back to the NFL. Shit, I guess he should have kicked a puppy or said he liked to smoke weed or something.

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MilesQToast (June 20, 2009)

that take has been pretty much the only thing occupying sports talk radio for the past week. I can see both sides at this point. He'll probably be suspended from the league for a year. He called the police/first offense/immediately copped to it/considered a decent guy. The family/prosectors agreed to it. etc etc.

it still seems ridiculous though.

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MattRamone (June 20, 2009)

If you or I had done it we'd be in a Pound Me In the Ass Federal Prison for a decade.

The family is only ok because they probably got a shit ton of cash.

This makes me glad I don't listen to sports talk radio. It's just one perfect storm of people who need to jack off more.

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MilesQToast (June 20, 2009)

well it can be, it depends on the show. People who need to jack off more is a lot of local shows. Ours happens to be way more discerning and intelligent.

But yeah, we totally would've gotten raped repeatedly.

Now all you have to do is go to the library and check out the Koran and Mein Kampf at the same time.

http://www.ratemyeverything.net/image/9020/0/Mein_Kampfy _Chair.ashx

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ffwoodycooks (June 20, 2009)

...and Vampirates

http://www.amazon.com/Vampirates-2-Terror-Justin-So mper/dp/0316013749

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MattRamone (June 20, 2009)

I wish I could kill them all with my mind.

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ffwoodycooks (June 20, 2009)

i was in the library the other day and Vampirates 4 was in the "suggested Reading" section. even the library is no longer a save haven from stupidity.

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MilesQToast (June 20, 2009)

my grandpa calls a couch a davenport.

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MattRamone (June 20, 2009)

Is soda "pop" and the black guy at Wendy's "boy"?

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MilesQToast (June 20, 2009)

soda is indeed pop but he is fairly progressive on civil rights matters.

But my friend's grandma asked her the other day "Does it ever bother Chris that he's mexican?" That's gotta count for something. She loves me too (the grandma). A few months ago my friend told a story about how her grandma was disparaging mexicans and then stopped: "oh I shouldn't say that - Chris is mexican!"

Also my friends have a dog that hates mexicans because they abused him but after much tentative-ness he totally warmed up to me and now he loves me. I am the mexican MLK.